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Australian National InstallFest Season
CarrotLord writes: "Australian LUGs are teaming up to present the Australian National InstallFest Season 2000. It started with Adelaide planning for July 15th, spread to Sydney, and now Perth. Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne, Newcastle and other regional centres will be joining up shortly. See the National site, and the LinuxSA (Adelaide) site for details. Also see the writeup in LinuxWorld Australia."
I'm sure you know of all this autoposting nastyness going on with slashdot. I'm wondering if you've had any ideas on how to combat these auto-posters. Some slashdot readers have recomended letting the users specify regexes to filter out posts, which seems like a good idea, but would put an incredible amount of stress on your servers for sure. The answer isn't just "increase your threshold", I used to browse at 0 so I'd get most good posts and the occasional Posted-as-AC-because-of-company-policy which wouldn't score above zero, now I'm browsing at 1, and since *syringe is making new user names, he's auto-posting at 1 until he gets modded down enough. The real problem may be a lack of mod points, with auto posts, the trolls/spammers can get posts out quicker than they are modded. Also, consider what would happen if they were to write a script which not only would post crap, but would also make new accounts every 10 posts or so. I think a while back, someone had the idea of "make an english question that must be answered before posting such as 'three plus 2=?' " so that autoposters wouldn't be able to post.
(Posted w/o +1 bonus to avoid karma lossage)
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
You call systems that crash every second day easy to use.
Windows isn't the easyest to use in the class room enviroment because it lacks true muti user support. I'm not talking about the ablity for a few people to use a computer at the same time I mean the ablity of a user to have there own settings and files that the next person who uses the computer can't mess with.
The big thing stoping linux in the class room is the teachers they are not very quick to catch on to new software. My teacher who taught me how to do techincal drawings couldn't use the software because I moved one of the tool bars. He would have to do the compleat course over again if the software changes the slightest. And that is why were still using an old buggy version of auto sketch and windows 95.
From a UI point of view linux is the same as windows and is more configureable. In schools you don't need huge menu's of programs like you see under the start button in windows or linux, you only need 10-20 buttons or icons on the screen.
A Linux bases system would be alot easyer to adminster than a windows based system. Once the boxes are configured and software installed the box shouldn't need to be touched. Right now at school every other day I see one of the computers geting windows re installed because some student has guessed the password to fortress, a program that keeps students from changeing setting and stuff, or some program has destroyed the system, viruses, or because some program was running really slow.
Linux is the best thing for the class room. In the schools the computers threw out the day have 7 or more diffrent people using it and each of them want to have there own settings and stuff.
God, root, what is the difference?
hmmm, one of us is missing the point (could be me)
:) experience, the real value in an install fest is that the juniors (god luv 'em) among us can have a) exposure to things like bootp/dhcp servers & other distros (and OS's for that matter) that they would not normally have access to; and b) exposure to more experienced guys that can help 'em with the tricky things ...
:)
From my (little
Otherwise, there is useually alot of a)beer, b) Hardware & c) nerds in one place at one time. Sounds like fun to me
I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I feel compelled to voice it anyway.
I think this whole idea is a waste of effort. Linux is nowhere near ready for consumers, and any time spent trying to squeeze them into it is no good. Instead, these folks should focus on a chunk of source and help develop this sucka.
There isn't any reason linux can't be made to satisfy both the 133t hax0rs and grandma...
That being said, why not develop this beast to a point where it can be adopted by the standard consumer directly, instead of this 'chicken with its head cut off' approach to getting it out there? We've got people coding wildly on every aspect, marketting/hyping it until we are blue in the face, mocking newbies and flaming windows users, now we even have a variation of the 'boat show' - but no real effort towards making this software usable.
Remember, just because you understand linux inside and out doesn't mean consumers, grandmas, normal business folk, and anyone else isolated from 133t circles understands even basic concepts you take for granted.
I urge everyone to focus on usability, UI shell consistency and a truly stupid learning curve. like windows you say? like any OS that has consumer acceptance going for it. Sadly this only includes windoze and macOS. BeOS doesn't even cut the mustard, with its unixy file sytem layout. my girlfriend still can't get around in BeOS, surely that's the ultimate test, right?
There are no windows 'install fests'... There doesn't need to be. My very own mother reformatted and re-instaleld windows last night. I had to talk her through it a little bit, but she got it most of the way. I doubt she could set up X or even vaguely deal at root level, much less installation. It doesn't have to be this way!!!
:)Fudboy
:)Fudboy
I guess I'm only a Fudboy, looking for that real Transmeta
The source code for the troll is probably Slashtroll which I noticed being spammed to some threads today. Your idea has merit, especially if the questions are generated newly each day (preferrably each hour) so that the script doesn't build a database of answers.
You call systems that crash every second day easy to use.
Support this statement, please. My experience with Windows (specifically Windows NT 4/2000) dictates otherwise.
Windows isn't the easyest to use in the class room enviroment because it lacks true muti user support. I'm not talking about the ablity for a few people to use a computer at the same time I mean the ablity of a user to have there own settings and files that the next person who uses the computer can't mess with.
For most school environments, I expect that NT/2000's multi-user support is more than sufficient. What, you didn't think I was talking about Windows 9x, did you?
From a UI point of view linux is the same as windows and is more configureable. In schools you don't need huge menu's of programs like you see under the start button in windows or linux, you only need 10-20 buttons or icons on the screen.
No, I've seen what 10-20 buttons on the desktop look like and it's an interface nightmare. A reasonably organized Start menu is, in my opinion, vastly easier to use.
Right now at school every other day I see one of the computers geting windows re installed because some student has guessed the password to fortress, a program that keeps students from changeing setting and stuff, or some program has destroyed the system, viruses, or because some program was running really slow.
This sounds more like a problem with the additional software installed than a problem with Windows. Besides, if you're going to run Windows, shouldn't y'all be running NT/2000? I'm not saying it's a cure-all, but I believe it would be better suited to the task than Windows 9x.
Hey, this isn't a flame, and I'm not trying to be a Windows 2000 smart-ass (whatever the hell that is). But it really is a pretty solid operating system, and one that is definitely on par with Linux in an academic/public computing environment. Don't be so quick to dismiss it just because Windows 9x sucks in many, many respects.
Have it around the time school starts. Lots of college kids with new computers dying to try linux
Don't allow a post to be posted when it matches an existing post. (Check for matches in a 1-way hash-value first. Otherwise the effort of this matching will be too hard on the database.)
This reduces the problem.
Then put in a scan for "known signatures" of specific spammers. (For instance that mug of beer.) To find those add a "spam" option for moderators. If a user starts being moded for spam, investigate the pattern...
Imperfect, but it would really help.
Cheers,
Ben
My usual seat in the cluetrain is at A HREF="http://pub4.ezboard.com/biwethey.ht
My name is Brad. My nick is a.out. (Just for you information) Signing a post with "/Brad" is a quick way of saying "end post: Brad". :-)
Walking up to someone and telling them "Man you are a ugly" and thinking it are two seperate things. One of which is socially acceptable, or polite, the other of which is not. On the same hand one of the corrections you made on my post was polite, where you pointed out that you did not understand my sentence, while the obvious typo was not. That was what I considered a flame or a troll. One could mistake your good intentions for a public mockery.
I hope I have cleared up my thoughts for you. I will be more carefull in the future with my grammar and spelling in public forums.
Linux is cheap, full price for a distro (some sort of paper howto included) is less than half that of Windows without any paper docs (and most of the time, when checking out a new distro, or upgrading an older version, it's free or nearly so).
Linux's need is for developers, not customers. At this point, Linux doesn't need users. They're certainly welcome, Grandma is welcome to use Linux, but this is where Grandma learns some new tricks (actually, most of the elders I see want to learn new tricks, if nothing else, to prove they still can).
It may not yet be easy to use, but it is getting easier. That might well be why Linux gets new developers, because so often people want it right, and can learn to make it right. For free.
Oh, and it's stable. (Lots of people already wanted to make it right).
Ironic thing, last April I managed to gain (with timely support from people from Eugene Free Net) representation for the Eugene Unix and GNU/Linux User Group (EUGLUG) at the Oregon Country Fair, a leftover hippy festival. Now, given that Linux was developed by Barefoot Hippy Communists, the most amusing part of this was defending the idea of Linux advocates handing out Linux CD-ROM's to (literally, in some cases, in April, in Oregon) barefoot hippies, some of whom proudly call themselves communist except when they're anarchist, or Republican, or Green, or Wiccan, or Idiosyncratic (my apologies to any overlooked viewpoints). Most of these (often loudly self-proclaimed) hippies are used to Microsoft and Apple (If Linux is a hippy/commie/name-your-own-subversive-conspiracy, why don't the assorted hippy or commie conspirators know of it?).
It seems there's a pronounced anti-corporate bias among the Fair Folk. As soon as it became clear that Linux is not a corporation, that indeed, Linux is out of corporate control, and moreover Linux is built on the idea that what software runs your hardware should be yours, not some damned corporation's, (and we wouldn't want purloined software, now would we?) we were in.
So if you find your way to the 31st Oregon Country Fair (July 7,8,9, along the Long Tom in Veneta, Oregon) you may find, among the music and crafters' booths, in the Community Village, the Doors of Expression, where you could rap with geeks and cop a free Linux (or free FreeBSD) distro. Or not.
Did I mention choice?
My best wishes to the Oz Install Fests.
Ed Craig "Who cares what you think?" George W. Bush, 4th of July 2001
it's nice to see that some threads don't instantly deterioriate into mindless ramblings, namely this one.
:P)
Your comment was well thought out. I do, however, have two addendums to your post:
A) Not all companies are necessarily as "into" M$ Office as many professionals like to pretend. Currently, I'm a Unix Sysad at one of said companies. While Office is used, particularly Excel and Word, I've found that it is fairly easy to get by with StarOffice (Which, IMHO has done a very good job with their latest release). The largest stumbling block I have seen with windows compatibility, etc. is in the area of networking. I start to get annoyed when I have to *think* about samba mounting my home directory on an NT share just to grab a file my boss pushed to the intranet.
B) This should be a simple FYI. I was actually a journalism major in college so i feel i have some degree of expertise in the gramatical nuances of the English language. I would be willing to bet that a good number of people posting on slashdot could pay a little more attention to their grammar, at least if they tried. However the idea behind slashdot is more behind the ideas, if you see what i'm trying to get at.
Nice to see that what appeared to be a troll, or flame, turned into an interesting dialog. (BTW - i *am* aware that I ended the last sentance of the last paragraph in a preposition
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
OK, is it more or less indisputable that Windows is easier to use than Linux? I'm not saying easier to configure exactly to your specifications, or easier to accomplish some hardcore technical task -- I'm saying easier for Joe Random User to walk in and fire up a word processor, or write an e-mail, or whatever.
Schools are going to use an OS in their labs that is a.) easy to use and b.) will allow anyone to come in, immediately get to work typing their term paper, and save it in a format used by 98% of the Western world. (Maybe the Eastern world too. I have no idea.)
Right now, Linux is in no position to be that OS. I'm a reasonably proficient computer user, but the software was too lacking and the learning curve too steep for me to justify making it my primary OS. MacOS might have a shot by virtue of its purported usability, except for its market share. Windows is that OS, perhaps by default.
Linux has a ways to go before it could contend for that title, but I'm not even sure it's fundamentally well-suited for use as a public terminal. Or not so much ill-suited, but it would probably be overkill in such a setting.
-jay
PS: I've never been to a LUG meeting, being only 15, I don't know how well I'd fit in.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
KDE/Gnome and X in general do a lot for bringing new users to Linux, but its difficult to migrate new users towards the command line.
I often wonder what effect there will be on hackerdom that the last sub-generation to see text-based computing before they saw graphical computing is no longer the yougest. I recall my first pascal programs being exciting because the marquee wordprocessor of the time (word star) didn't look any different than the text based stuff I was writing.
Hello world used all the display sophistication that the best consumer apps did. Now hello world looks to be a shadow of an app compared to the amazing graphics in today's apps. It seems young hackers have two options:
1) Spend their first 2 years writing apps that look lame in comparison to the apps they use
2) Use GUI builder tools and never understand what's really going on.
--
booya! :)
/.
Fluxrad: Exccellent! Your reply is an excellent example of how one should respond to trolls and flames. Even with an attack that personal I was impressed how you handles yourself. I would have been too quick to draw for the flame gun, especially these days on
/Brad
The school I just graduated from, duPont Manual magnet High School in Louisville, Kentucky, has Linux installed in most of the systems in one of the computer labs. It is used extensively in the networking class and is the operating system of choice among most of the tech-savvy students. However, I don't know of any other schools in the state which run Linux.
I'm sorry, but we rent computer time where I work, and you could fucking install a voice-activated, psychic "Hotmail Access Unit" and most morons who rent time would still not be able to manage to sign up for a Hotmail account.
My prediction? Computers will never be "user friendly" because the more that you can do with a thing, the more complex it is. With complexity comes indimidation, with intimidation comes fear, hatred, and ignorance that manifests itself as stupidity.
Joe Luser will never be able to sit down at a multi-purpose computing device and be able to divine how to operate it through finesse or design. Windows 98, X, MacOS, Bob, it doesn't matter. User friendliness is a pipe dream.
So call me Jim Pessimist, but you will never see a computer user interface worth using more intuitive or user friendly than your common nuclear power plant.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments, and am consistantly amazed by the blind following of many linux advocates. I like Linux, however I see there are benefits in different platofrms for different purposes. I work in the IT industry, and I can safely say that WindowsNT when built properly, and maintained as a server should be is very rugged and reliable. Certainly the same can be said for *nix based systems, but the degree of knowledge to install, configure and secure one of these boxen is dramatically higher. (And a credit to ya's!)
As an aside, in my testing and learning about Win2K, I have come to the decision that it does hold the upper edge for at LEAST small-medium size organisations (by this I mean upwards of 000's of clients) will be a better selection for corporate OS. I think that this will start to show in the near future. If the various differnet flavours of linux, or unix develop the comprehensive, easy to manage systems that Microsoft have (whether they did it improperly of not) then they will have thier day. I guess the problem with this is that good idea's CAN be crushed, or copied into submission, a la Netscape, but realisticly, the browser war is a bad yardstick to measure by.
I guess the important thing is to make RATIONAL decisions based on YOUR impressions, rather than blindly following any mob that has numbers. In MY impression, there is NO WAY you would ever get a school running linux on the desktop in an easy to use fashion, with acceptable applications and maintain its security.
On the other hand, what we could create would be a generation of smarter, more freely thinking individuals who could certainly hack... ; )
Wouldnt the fun times roll on then...
i think one of the keys in this fight (if you want to call it that) is to get kids using linux. get people familiar. I believe that's one of the big reasons mac's refuse to die - is because all kinds of kids are using 'em. Perhaps we need to have install fests in schools...or at least promote linux classes in addition to all those typing and CS classes that many high-schools already offer.
Does anyone know of a school who's major OS is linux? that really ought to change. These install fests do help, but only to people who probably would have converted sooner or later anyway. Let's get kids interested in linux, show them the games they can play, show the really geek-oriented kids how cool it is to hack source.
It's alot easier to get someone to try linux when they've already had at least some exposure to it. Same with anything.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume