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Linux Announcement from Sony, Toshiba, NEC, Fujitsu
BJH writes: "This hit the newspapers in Japan this morning - Sony, Toshiba, NEC, Fujitsu, Hitachi and Mitsubishi (basically the entire electronics industry in Japan, with the notable exception of Matsushita) will be setting up the "Japan Embedded Linux Consortium" in cooperation with TurboLinux and a whole bunch of other groups to produce a version of Linux suitable for use as an embedded OS for home electronics, mobile phones, cars, industrial machinery - in fact, just about anything with a CPU. Here's a Nikkei article in Japanese (no login needed) and another one here in English (you'll need to log in for this one). This looks like it's going to be big - hold onto your hats, guys..." If anyone has found an English URL that doesn't require a login, please post it below.
Why bog down the processor with a full embedded operating system? I don't understand this. I design embedded systems for a living and I'd say a full 90% of the systems out there have absolutely no need for a full (or even stripped down) Linux (or anything else) kernel. Cellphones?! gimme a break! Because the next generation of these devices will be full blown Internet Capable, computing devices. With 300K+ comms to and from these things and the need to recoup $billions in investments some power and flexibility will be needed.
Now I can have my speech recognizer program listen to what the person on the other end is saying, translate it with the babelfish, and speak it out the ear-piece, while rendering animated 3-D flythroughs of the Mandelbrot set and re-compiling my kernel, at the same time! (note: don't drive while doing this)
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
Uh, no. PalmOS has nothing needed in cellphones, that's why Symbian was created, and what Epoc is for ...
it's in my head
many question why simple devices should run linux.
for many embedded systems, there is a low production count. they may actually make more profit per device by using a full-blown PC-on-a-chip over a small microcontroller.
the time to market is shorter, and the development costs are much lower.
if you can't amortize the higher cost engineering that goes into a microcontroller based system over many devices, then the pc-on-a-chip is a better deal.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
In the early 80's, this same group of Japanese electronics giants got together and signed a formal agreement to forward the purposes of the TRON project, which was the result of a large amount of computer science research done by a number of Japans top computer scientists.
The purpose of TRON (this was *BEFORE* the movie) was to create a single kernel architecture that can be used in multiple electronics devices, with an *open* (to the industry at that time, open meant they shared the specs with each other) communications protocol.
In essence: ubiquitous computing.
This resulted in a huge decrease in product design costs for the Japanese consumer electronics market, as TRON kernels have been used in everything from microwave ovens to robotic car manufacture assembly lines.
This effort waned somewhat during the late 90's due in part to the costs associated with keeping TRON up to date with microprocessor development, and the Japanese economic depression certainly played a part as well.
So it makes *total sense* and is very good news indeed, to hear that these electronics giants are continuing the TRON-like effort using Linux, and using the GNU-like methodology for maintaining this project in the future.
As an avid follower of the machinations of Japanese consumer electronics giants, this is some very good news to me indeed.
BTW, details about TRON are out there on the 'net, for those that are interested. One of Japans leading computer scientists was involved in the project during the early 80's, and his vision was very much driven by the Japanese manic sci-fi ethos. It makes for some crazy reading, for sure, but it all happened and is evident in all that Japanese consumer electronics gear around you.
Do a bit of scanning through a binary dump of the kernel in your digital camera/microwave oven/VCR/MiniDisc player, and you may find some interesting references to the TRON kernel, and/or leading consulting firms in Japan that were a part of the TRON kernel software development industry...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I'd say a full 90% of the systems out there have absolutely no need for a full (or even stripped down) Linux (or anything else) kernel. Cellphones?! gimme a break!
I'd agree that it does seem like putting Linux on a cellphone might be a bit of overkill, but I think this actually makes sense given the Japanese electronics market.
The Japanese article mentioned "cellphones, home electronics, and car navigation systems," all of which are fairly complex pieces of machinery here in Japan, more often than not connected to the internet:
It seems that the software in these things would be fairly complex. It seems to me like it's a good idea that these things all use a compatible OS -- I'm frankly amazed and quite happy that all of these companies have decided to decide upon an open and freely-available standard. The nice thing about Linux is that it's free, it's available now, and companies can modify it to make it as light as they need. Just because they're choosing Linux, it doesn't mean that my next cell phone is going to have X and a complete TeX installation on it or anything.
Got a bit lazy in my post, but discovered I'd had a few links on the subject of TRON/CTRON/ITRON stashed away for those that are interested:
o n-93.94.html / panph96.html
http://www.tron.org/
http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/itron.html
http://www.atip.or.jp/public/atip.reports.94/tr
http://tron.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/TRON/ITRON/panph96
Should be some good reading for you in there, enjoy!
:)
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
This is a little rumor I heard from a freind that works for Panasonic (Matsushita). He says they are dabbling with their own embedded linux for some of their phone systems. Maybe they don't want to share.
Um, not wanting to sound like some GPL-fanatic, but is this really a problem? If "they", i.e. a bunch of the world's largest hi-tech companies, make a mistake which legally forces them to deliver source code with all their cool products, who loses? Certainly not "us", i.e. the geeks (who also happen to be consumers) of the world. Or? If they didn't want to have to deliver source, one would hope that they would be smart enough not to pick a kernel licensed under the GPL, right? I think I don't quite see what's worth sighing about here. Unless, of course, you're afraid that they plan to violate the GPL by withholding the source. That could be a problem. FSF's lawyers against that consortium's could become bloody... :(
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
Now that several Japanese companies will work with TurboLinux to create a standardized embedded Linux for small electronic devices, one good thing is that we will end up with a "de facto" standard for embedded Linux so programming for such devices will be quite a bit easier.
I'm not surprised that TurboLinux is involved in this project given that TurboLinux was developed originally so it could support Asian character sets such as Big 5 and Shift-JIS. This way, the Japanese programmers can work much of the time in their own native language.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Because of LABOR cost!
Linux has proved itself to be the most portable OS ever created. This will make it much easier to get it on any device they are running.
Once they have Linux on the device, they can enlist any Linux developer to help them develope additional functions and interfaces.
What's the other choice. Pick an OS that must be paid for ($5 added to the cost of a consumer device is massive). TRAIN ALL DEVELOPERS to use program this OS. When the next device is developed, buy a different OS and you get to TRAIN ALL DEVELOPERS again. Hiring is complicated and expensive because you'll have to TRAIN ALL DEVELOPERS you hire in the exotic OS your using. By another company and you have to TRAIN ALL DEVELOPERS in this exotic OS the probably have never seen before.
(Is the pattern emerging yet?)
Companies like to have standards that don't involve the areas where they're trying to differentiate themselves, make it cheaper for them to operate, and make their products cheaper. $5 for EPOCH on each production unit cell phone would be a large percentage of the production cost, and that isn't even considering what it cost to train someone in the basics of the OS, let alone paying someone with enough experience to actually be good with the OS.
There is every reason in the world for the hardware companies to want to standardize on a OS layer peice of software. It'll let device operate better together (many more total units sold - all the boats will rise in that wave), make the devices cheaper to develope (making the wave bigger), and by avoiding the proprietary OSs (kiss our butt M$) will make the devices cheaper to market (oohh, big wave).
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
O.K, point taken (Although we're not talking just mobile phones here)
But the point still stands that there are better solutions for embeded devices than Linux.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Why Linux why not RTLinux. Should be per suitable for many embedded systems.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000713/tc/japan_ dc_1.html
Linux Today has this sory and provides the URL http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/07/13/asia/wires/japan_w g/
Why would anyone want to try to run Linux on a mobile phone? What exactly do you gain over all the other long-standing and well respected things like EPOCH?
How exactly is OS style development going to work on an OS for a burglar alarm - I mean these devices aren't readily available for playing around with.
Maybe Linux really is suited to this stuff, I don't know, but it seems odd to take an OS designed as a multi-user system for one of the world's most powerful* and power-hungry CPU architectures and try to turn it into an OS for a phone.
Has anyone done a good comparison of Embedded Linux with other embedded OSes?
This seems more about some hardware companies getting scared that the software layer is becoming more important. _They_ would love to have a non-proprietary OS that everyone uses - because then the hardware becomes the deciding factor in product quality.
So, less about really wanting to have the best OS, more about marketplace survival tactics...
*Powerful relative to CPUs for embedded devices
-----
OK, sorry for the bogus link to the Nikkei English site - I didn't know that their registration policy requires a credit-card number (!), even for a free trial.
It seems that the only English article around at the moment is here at CNNfn; they have a reasonable summary of the situation, but it's slightly different in content from the Nikkei article, so for your edification, I've included my translation of the Japanese Nikkei piece. (My comments are in italics.)
OS development collaboration for digital home electronics
23 Japanese electronic and telecommunications companies, including Toshiba, Sony and NEC, in addition to two universities, including Waseda University, have reached a basic agreement on collaborative development of an OS for controlling digital home electronics, mobile phones, car navigation systems and other products. Utilizing the rapidly-spreading free (This is "free" as in "free beer") OS, Linux, the OS will be made available to the public to use freely (This "free" is "libre"), and is expected to contribute to lower product development cost. The group will also call for participation from overseas corporations in an effort to make the OS a global de facto standard. Microsoft currently controls the world market for PC-based operating systems, but the Japanese group will join together to create a common infrastructure for an OS for next-generation information devices, such as digital home electronics, which are anticipated to undergo rapid growth in the future.
A controlling organization, the Japan Embedded Linux Consortium, will be founded on the 13th of this month. Other than Toshiba, etc., Fujitsu, Hitachi and Mitsubishi Electric will also participate. In addition to software companies such as TurboLinux and Elmic Systems, Waseda University's engineering department (Waseda is one of the top two or three private universities in Japan) and the Toyohashi University of Technology will take part.
One nuance that doesn't come through well in translation is the bit where they say the OS will be freely available - an exaggerated interpretation would be something like "the consortium is planning to be so gracious as to make the OS freely available to the public", an interesting bit of spin considering that they would have to make at least the kernel, and quite possibly much of userland, available, thanks to the GPL.
One other important point is the absence of Matsushita (and thereby National/Panasonic and Aiwa) from the consortium, which foreshadows the possibility of yet another Beta/VHS war. One has to wonder what Matsushita are going to do in reply to this (I very much doubt that they would just ignore it).
They know that this will either give them control over Linux or remove any credibility it has in this market. Either way they are happy. If it loses credibility, it prevents any new competitors coming up and competing. If they control it, then it prevents any new competitors from coming up and competing.
When they release the source, it will be an ancient version for anyone other than the consortium members. Anyone who decides to use it will find that they're at least 2 generations behind by the time they can get a product to market.
I like the last line of the CNN article: "Linux is a computer operating system that performs functions broadly similar to Microsoft's Windows. "
Your next cell may be a complete personal data/communications device that approaches the power of current PDAs, palmtops, or even a laptop.
Personally, I think the convergence should be the other way round. If you need a bog-simple mobile, use one. If you need a 'complete personal data/communications device', buy a full-blown PDA with built in cellphone capabilities.
However, this does put a large corporate consortium in a position of direct influence over an open source product. The jury should be out for quite some time to determine whether this is good or bad for Linux.
Cobblers. I get tired of hearing this lame 'they're going to hijack or steal our OS' line. The point about the Linux develeopment model is that it can't be hijacked, not without serious forkage. Its a benevolent dictatorship, effectively, and if Linus doesnt like it, it wont happen. I dont know how the hell any consortium is going to change that. Swamp the kernel list with excellent patches containing subtle code restructuring the OS to their own nefarious ends? Um, nope.
Now's the time for all of us to be communicating with consortium member companies to make our communal wishes and concerns known.
My main wish is that people thought a wee bit more before they started spouting paranoid nonsense. What exactly is it that causes this kneejerk 'the big boys are gonna steal our toy' reaction? Answers on a postcard...
Pax,
White Rabbit +++ Divide by Cucumber Error ++
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Remember the futurists wet dream of having everything 'internet connected'. The whole thing that suddenly was "this is the future" like a year ago with 'intelligent fridges' and internet-connected hifi's.
Linux's networking features etc. make a great deal of sense to this.
Actually I'd really like a hifi I could stick a USB cable into link it up to the PC for a and set up a playlist remotely/download tunes to.
Or even animate the little LED graphics EQ!
This UID is 7651 digits too high to subjectively infer IQ from.
Those all cost $$$ and apparently the japs don't want to pay.
Processors get smaller and faster all the time, no one could imagine Unix on a laptop 20 years ago... don't be so shortsighted.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
However, this does put a large corporate consortium in a position of direct influence over an open source product. The jury should be out for quite some time to determine whether this is good or bad for Linux.
There are a lot of opportunities here for the Linux community to get even more widespread acceptance and active use of Linux and other O-S OS's. Now's the time for all of us to be communicating with consortium member companies to make our communal wishes and concerns known.
My office has been taken over by iPod people.
Linux in cellphones and pagers and cars and industrial machinery? WHY?
Why bog down the processor with a full embedded operating system? I don't understand this. I design embedded systems for a living and I'd say a full 90% of the systems out there have absolutely no need for a full (or even stripped down) Linux (or anything else) kernel. Cellphones?! gimme a break!
I'm happy and all to see Linux move out into every corner of the market but isn't this a little like porting Linux to the Commodore 64? "Big Iron" in the sense of embedded systems may be perfect for Linux (cell tower stations, control systems for industrial machinery, etc.) but why would you want Linux running in the mouse you're using or the cellphone or pager you're wearing?
I can't get in to the English article and I can't read Japanese but unless they are talking about providing a RT scheduler and not a whole lot else this isn't making any sense. Hell if they only provide the scheduler and a few services it isn't even Linux IMO. "Based on" yes but not "is".
The bit about 'making the OS freely available' sounds like they arn't on the same wavelength as the community. Should we be concerned that the 'consortiums' will cause more fragmentation of Linux? There are some versions of Linux that 'exists' as patches, and add functionality that for some reason arn't included in the 'standard' kernel. It sounds like this OS will be a complete fork, though. Is there a risk that the modifications that are made will make it difficult to move useful functionality from one kernel to another? Will the concortium understand the importance of preventing this? If the developement process of this new OS is visible to the community, we will ofcause be able to influence them before things go wrong. Lets hope that the consortium isnt to secretive.
Pluses for Linux:
1) Cost. Have you looked at how much it costs to licence an os like VxWorks or OS9? If you have any number of developers, your going to be paying a hundred grand for startup and the first years support. But that isn't the worst of it. You'll be paying $12-20 a chip for every system you ship to run that OS. And Linux is... oh, right, free.
2) Drivers. If you have any odd peripherals you want to connect up the system you're building, its handy of the drivers already exist for the OS you're using. This is much more likely to be true with Linux.
3) Customization. Especially if you're running on custom hardware, its nice to be able to get under the hood and tweak things appropriately. This is much easier if you have an open source OS.
4) Oh yeah, and in today's job market especially, its easier to find people with Linux experience than experience in FooBar commercial RTOS.
Minuses:
1) Hard realtime needs. If you can't get away with knowing that something will happen within a couple of milliseconds, not a couple of clock cycles, you're probably in trouble. This is an area where Linux for embedded applictions is currently lacking, but there are people working on it.
2)The only other minus I can think of for linux is size. But that's not even a huge deal. I mean, so what if FooBar propriatary RTOS has a 4K kernel? Who has memory needs that are that stringent these days?
The bottom line is, yes, there are a lot of systems that Linux is not yet right for. But if you can get away with it, its worth doing.
spreer
The Register has the story here.
I noticed a lot of responses were along the lines of why use any high level/general purpose embedded operating system. This seems like a dumb question and an issue that had already been decided by these companies long before this. What this represents is mearly a choice of which operating system to endorse most broadly, in the car, on the cell phone, etc, rather than if one should be used at all, and given a choice between Wince, Linux, and some specialized embedded OS, I think Linux is by far the most logical choice. Also, I do not believe the goal is to replace things that already work well with existing embedded micro-controllers, such as ignition systems in cars, since this seemed to be the most common comment, etc, but to build "applications" that really require a more general purpose OS, such as MP3 stereo player, car navigation systems, etc. As for the cell phone, I had my own doubts on this one, initially. However, cell phones might well be the first platform to evolve a true interactive voice interface, and they could then easily expand into more general purpose "PDA"-like devices. Why not Linux, which offers a clean kernel without excess bagage?