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New YOPY Screenshots

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the so-when-is-this-not-beta-already? dept.

FWMiller writes: "Theres a bunch of new screenshots up on Samsung's new PDA, the YOPY. This thing looks really slick, emulating the Windows CE user interface quite closely." The images are in a tgz, and they look real. They demo an addressbook, and MP3 player and other apps that apparently would ship with the nifty Linux based PDA. I still haven't seen a ship date (or an english version of the software for that matter ;) so I'm not holding my breath too hard. Although after playing with Kurt The Pope's Jornada, I'm dying to see what they can do.

45 of 123 comments (clear)

  1. You could be a little polite... by 11223 · · Score: 2
    ... you could have at least asked the server admin before taking down Korea's entire link to the internet!

    Is this running on a FB or on X? Any word on when we'll see a QT/Embedded device?

    1. Re:You could be a little polite... by generic-man · · Score: 2

      According to yopy.org, it runs W, not X. The W window environment takes up much less space than X, thus making it more useful for small devices with less resources than your average desktop.

      --
      For more information, click here.
  2. PDA's by KeyShark · · Score: 2

    With all the PDA's out there, is anyone really buying any that aren't Palms right now?

    1. Re:PDA's by evand · · Score: 2

      With all the PDA's out there, is anyone really buying any that aren't Palms right now?

      At least one :) I just purchased a Psion revo, and I have to say I'm very impressed. It's very stylish, fast, and has a great user interface at a pretty high resolution (for a PDA). I used to own a Palm III, but when that broke I decided to try something different. The revo is exactly that -- different. It's a whole different kind of device... it has a word processing application, spreadsheet program, E-Mail program (better than the Palm's there), agenda, contact list... Opera has even been ported to it! I'm very satisfied, excepting the fact that AFAIK there isn't any way to sync it with Linux.

      No, I don't work for Psion :)

  3. The obvious question... by MostlyHarmless · · Score: 5

    The first thing that should pop into anybody's head as soon as they hear this is:

    "Who would want to emulate Windows CE's interface?"
    --

    --
    Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.
    1. Re:The obvious question... by sabi · · Score: 2
      And perchance, do you happen to know of a good touch- (and tap-) based interface?

      Newton OS? It's the most consistently usable, reasonably widespread commercial OS I've used.

      There were many aspects that contributed to its death, but "lack of ease of use" sure wasn't one of them.

      (Very) early efforts to port the Newton to free software is available at www.gnuton.com.
      --

    2. Re:The obvious question... by kootch · · Score: 2

      two conflicting arguments.

      1. the Windows OS, as much as we all hate/loath it, is the most recognized and used operating system EVER. this doesn't mean it's great, but there are millions that are comfortable with it.

      2. the WinCE OS currently holds between 15 and 30 percent of the mobile market. Palm and Handspring have the other 70 to 85 percent between the two of them.

      So while WinCE might be familiar to everyone, it doesn't currently seem like this is a great selling point. Although, it could be because the USABILITY of the Palm OS and PDA is much higher. Yes, WinCE might have more functionality (afterall, it IS supposed to be Windows crammed into a small body), but if users can't figure out how to use it, what good is it?

      Symbian's EPOC might be very kewl when it comes out. Sony's next generation of mobile devices (both PDA's and cell phones) might be running this OS with 3G capabilities (wishful thinking of course). When Sony, including both their techies and their marketting people, get involved with mobile devices, just you wait. They'll take over the market in much the same way they've taken over consumer electronics.

  4. Uhhh... you're new here, right? by DG · · Score: 2

    A .TGZ extension is a Microsoft-ed, three-letter-extension version of the old and traditional Uniz .tar.gz extension sequence, indicating a group of files collected together with tar, and then compressed with gzip.

    To view the files, reverse the process.

    --
    Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
  5. Wow by rockwall · · Score: 2

    These pictures look great (though someone oughta mirror them uncompressed). I have to admit, I'm currently the not-so-proud owner of a Windows CE device (or is it Windows Powered?). However, my complaints with it have nothing to do with the interface*, and if you could bring something similar to the Yopy then I would definitely be interested. Anyone know when we might expect to see them?

    *If you are curious, my complaints are specifically with system resource usage and stability. While Windows CE isn't as bad as its cousins, its heritage is still apparent. If you could give me the same features and interface but with a little less bloat and cruft, I would be a very satisfied customer.

    yours,
    john

  6. Looks nice, but... by JonMintz · · Score: 5

    Palm OS developer/Handspring founder Jeff Hawkins's "Zen of Palm" (essentially, simplify as much as possible for a palmtop unit) really holds true with current hardware limitations.

    Now, if you could give me something the size of a Palm V, with the Fitaly stamp keyboard instead of Graffiti or handwriting recogninition (plus an optional folding full-size StowAway keyboard), expansion as easy and versatile as Handspring's Springboard but as small as Sony's Memory Stick, a high-quality color display for large resolutions, built-in wireless connectivity, and long-lasting rechargable batteries...well, then you'd really have a amazingly powerful, functional palm device. Deliver it at a reasonable price point and the world will beat a path to your door.

    But it looks like Samsung is taking a big step in the race for the ultimate PDA.

    1. Re:Looks nice, but... by kootch · · Score: 3
      "But it looks like Samsung is taking a big step in the race for the ultimate PDA."

      That's only if you believe there is such a thing as the ultimate PDA. A PDA doesn't have to be of the Palm/Handspring genre, but can instead me any small mobile device that has organizing and functional abilities incorporated into it.

      Personally, I'm sick of the genre. I'd like a PDA that had the ability to call a phone number from my phone/address book, to listen to and search for mp3's and listen to them as they stream out of thin air into my headphones, etc.

      But while I want one Palm-sized device, I would also like a miniature device that would function just as a phone with some additional functionality but be able to sync against my Palm, a miniature laptop that could sync to both my phone and my Palm, and a way to sync all of these devices and maybe 20 more all together, each specializing in one thing instead of having a big cell phone that tries to act like a PDA.

      ultimate PDA you say? Ha. you'll wish you were only carrying 1 gadget 10 yrs from now.

  7. YOPY Go Home by vertical-limit · · Score: 2
    Doesn't anyone else think that this PDA craze is getting out of hand? Sure, it's neat to have information in a small, portable form, but do we want to be "connected" 24/7? Don't we want the ability to take a vacation instead of spending our week in Hawaii sending memos to the boss on our shiny new PDA while talking on a cellphone, waiting for our beeper to ring, and coding on a laptop?

    I can think of some handy uses for a PDA -- if you were in an accident, for example, you could send a memo to the hospital. Or if you had to take notes during a meeting (but who goes to meeting these days?), you could jot them down on a PDA, assuming you could get it to recognize your handwriting. But who wants to have their address book, e-mail, pager, and ICQ attached to them, like some sort of crippling chain to their job? Unless your entire life revolves around computers and the Internet, I can't think of a reason why you'd want one of these things leeching away your free time.

    This may be the Miniturization Age, but believe it or not, we don't need everything smaller and more pervasive. Throw that PDA away and take a vacation. See the world. Stop and smell the roses.

    1. Re:YOPY Go Home by TerryG · · Score: 3

      My snide remark:

      The simple answer is to turn your machine (PDA, cell phone, beeper, etc.) off.

      I like my hammer as much as the next guy...I don't use it in restaurants though.

      TGL

      --
      --- this space intentionally left blank.
    2. Re:YOPY Go Home by Kaa · · Score: 2

      Doesn't anyone else think that this PDA craze is getting out of hand? Sure, it's neat to have information in a small, portable form, but do we want to be "connected" 24/7?

      You are confused. Your rant is, basically, against beepers and cell phones -- these are the devices that make you "connected" 24/7. PDAs are, ahem, somewhat different.

      But who wants to have their address book, e-mail, pager, and ICQ attached to them, like some sort of crippling chain to their job?

      Job??

      Does your address book have only business contacts? Is your email 99% business-related? Is it only your boss or your customers that page you?

      If so, my advice would be to get a life.

      believe it or not, we don't need everything smaller and more pervasive.

      I know a lot of women who would agree with you wholeheartedly.


      Kaa

      --

      Kaa
      Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
    3. Re:YOPY Go Home by Rombuu · · Score: 2

      Ah, the traditional luddite post..

      Doesn't anyone else think that this PDA craze is getting out of hand? Sure, it's neat to have information in a small, portable form, but do we want to be "connected" 24/7? Don't we want the ability to take a vacation instead of spending our week in Hawaii sending memos to the boss on our shiny new PDA while talking on a cellphone, waiting for our beeper to ring, and coding on a laptop?

      Well, here is an idea. Don't fucking buy one if you don't want one. Don't make the rest of us suffer because you want to fucking rub to sticks together to make a fire, while the rest of us are more than happy to use a zippo.

      --

      DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
  8. Re:nfp -- WOW by DonkPunch · · Score: 2

    When I first began writing the "nfp" post above, I totally stunned that I had happened onto an article with apparently no replies. It was a completely chance event -- like winning the lottery, being struck by lightning, or receiving an IRS audit WITHOUT having exposed sexual misconduct of the current U.S. President.

    I did not believe I would actually be able to type and "Submit" quickly enough to receive the coveted first post. Therefore, I included "nearly" in my subject.

    However, fate is a fickle and unpredictable mistress (interns are much easier). As it turns out, I DID in fact have the first post to this particular article.

    What led to this remarkable set of circumstances? I can only speculum. Perhaps it was because the linked file was, in fact, a .tgz download. Perhaps other first posters were thwarted by the need to both download and unzip the file. This slowed their normally cat-like posting response.

    But the above suppository has a flaw. It assumes that Slashdooters actual FOLLOW links before they post. We all know the folly of this predisposition.

    There was a time when first posts where easy to come by. Now, Slashdot has more posters than a used CD store. First posts have become even more special and rarer than beef tartar.

    I can only conclude that, for today, the gods of the universe are looking upon me with favor. This is my special day and I will enjoy it for as long as it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop. The world may never know. Thank you.

    --

    Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
  9. Mirror (actually, uncompressed pics available at.. by kashent · · Score: 5

    http://www.pdabuzz.com/Features/Yopy.html Seems to be the new pics. (not sure, since my download is crawling)

  10. Battery Life by NetJunkie · · Score: 3

    If you read the Yopy FAQ it mentions battery life being 6 hours. 6 hours!?! For a PDA?! I wanted one before, but I don't know now....

  11. CE Interface by Dungeon+Dweller · · Score: 2

    No offense, but a CE interface for a palm isn't a terribly good idea. Even the people that I know who use CE think that the interface is poor. Menus like that just aren't terribly suited to being the main driving thing in a DPA. Look at palm OS, very easy to use on a small display. The interfaces classic to X are good for palms. Picture enlightenment shrunk onto a PDA screen. That sort of interface would be much more useful than CE's (and I don't care if it's familiar, it IS intuitive). Pager displays and iconboxes, menus that drag out of where you place the cursor (or at least shift properly). I would hope that the YOPY would do these more like it's linux/unix/BSD brethren.


    We're all different.

    --
    Eh...
  12. Re:What's with this file? by Shoeboy · · Score: 2

    Ok, what's with the hostility here. I come from a windows background ok. Hell, I used to work for microsoft. Is it unreasonable to assume that a file supposedly containing a screenshot is an image format?
    This kind of unix wookie elitism is what turns a lot of people off of adopting linux. Fortunately the freebsd community seems a lot more helpful and humble.
    --Shoeboy

  13. Re:What's with this file? by DonkPunch · · Score: 2

    Fortunately the freebsd community seems a lot more helpful and humble.

    My young apprentice,

    I believe our roles are reversed. The above was clearly a masterful stroke of trolling. Your skills obviously exceed mine. I want to learn from you.

    The learner is now the master. The learner waits while the master baits.

    --

    Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
  14. Re:CE and the YOPY by generic-man · · Score: 2

    You forgot the fundamental point of Slashdot-style advocacy. Anything that Microsoft produces (except perhaps Internet Explorer) sucks, and is just an attempt to gain more of a stranglehold over the world as a whole. When a device using Linux starts to imitate what Microsoft does, it's hailed as an incredible breakthrough, something that's almost as good as... using Microsoft products!

    On a more serious note, sometimes Microsoft _does_ make something decent on the desktop. The use of keyboard accelerators far and away beats out other desktop OS's, so I can do things like rapid data entry without reaching for the mouse. Additionally, applications tend to use common dialogs, icons, and widgets much more often. Microsoft's own Office products tend to be among the exceptions, ironically enough.

    Of course, Microsoft has practically nothing on *nix on the command line, but who in their right mind gets anything done THERE? ;)

    --
    For more information, click here.
  15. Mirrordot.org? by Mullen · · Score: 2

    bash# traceroute www.gmate.co.kr
    traceroute to www.gmate.co.kr (211.113.71.2), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
    1 209.68.XXX.XXX (209.68.XXX.XXX) 0.643 ms 0.489 ms 0.459 ms
    2 pos3-1.hsa1.sdg1.Level3.net (209.245.56.129) 0.709 ms 0.727 ms 0.783 ms
    3 lo0.mp1.LosAngeles1.level3.net (209.247.8.241) 4.376 ms 15.523 ms 4.385 ms
    4 209.247.10.194 (209.247.10.194) 4.237 ms 4.277 ms 4.264 ms
    5 209.0.227.34 (209.0.227.34) 5.811 ms 6.087 ms 6.026 ms
    6 corerouter1.Bloomington.cw.net (204.70.9.147) 9.718 ms 9.665 ms 9.136 ms
    7 corerouter2.SanFrancisco.cw.net (204.70.9.132) 16.891 ms 19.112 ms 18.515 ms
    8 acr2-loopback.SanFranciscosfd.cw.net (206.24.210.62) 17.500 ms 17.286 ms 17.495 ms
    9 bpr1.pax.cw.net (206.24.210.8) 18.244 ms 18.103 ms 18.150 ms
    10 206.24.241.90 (206.24.241.90) 16.891 ms 16.640 ms 16.506 ms
    11 211.47.0.221 (211.47.0.221) 180.773 ms 181.084 ms 181.458 ms
    12 211.47.0.105 (211.47.0.105) 180.215 ms 181.265 ms 181.399 ms
    13 211.62.63.5 (211.62.63.5) 180.526 ms 180.593 ms 180.843 ms
    14 Daebang.LL-TEMP.hitel.net (211.62.33.100) 180.620 ms 182.815 ms 182.763 ms
    15 211.113.71.1 (211.113.71.1) 4682.654 ms 4428.250 ms 4502.190 ms
    16 211.113.71.2 (211.113.71.2) 4461.430 ms 4618.915 ms 4377.226 ms

    You think they could mirror sites that they put up?

    --
    Linux O Muerte!
  16. Re:Mirror (actually, uncompressed pics available a by po_boy · · Score: 3

    Those aren't the same images as in the tarball. They are cool, though.

  17. Anyone who is interested in this... by tilly · · Score: 4

    Check out Microwindows. If you need an interface for an application which may run on a Linux PDA, you are likely to use this little beauty. Plus anyone who thinks that X is awful should take note. By developing things using Microwindows you can get applications - today - that run under X and also can run with a far lighter windowing interface...

    Cheers,
    Ben

    --
    My usual seat in the cluetrain is at A HREF="http://pub4.ezboard.com/biwethey.ht
  18. Re:At least by spectecjr · · Score: 2

    they used a free compression format. I hate it when some company creates ZIPs of everything, which have to be unzipped, but they don't get created in their own directory then Oh No!! my directory has 50 new files in it!!

    What's even worse is that Corel's WordPerfect 8 for Linux used DOS print drivers; the drivers you downloaded off their site were self-extracting EXE's. Morons. I should've used wine.

    Zip is a free compression format, you moron.

    Learn to use options and you'll get all the files dumped in the right directories (clue: -D works)

    Many many more people use Zip than use tgz - I don't know why anybody bothers with tgz any more - especially for wide distribution. Most people don't know what to do with them.

    Fortunately, Winzip handles them just fine. I registered my copy - did you?

    --
    Coming soon - pyrogyra
  19. Re:What's with this file? by Shoeboy · · Score: 4

    Smoking Joe,
    The hallowed and supa-1337 trolls of slashdot have embraced me. Yea verily spiralx has clasped me to his manly bosom and let me suckle at the teat of trolldom. There is great rejoicing in shoeboy land and a major party in my pants.
    Your young apprentice,
    --Shoeboy

  20. pervasive tech by Ryandav · · Score: 4

    Actually, there have been some wonderful editorials on this topic in the NYTimes print edition, although I am unable to find any of them (anyone know of an editorial index online?) at the moment.

    The gist is, as we allow technology into our lives, we have to make it slave to us, not enslave ourselves to it. Luddites complain that cellphones keep us apart and remote while techno-enthusiasts claim it brings us together. My arkansas mother claims she talks more in email with her remote family now that she did on the phone in a year, while a fellow LUG officer I know turns his pager off the minute he leaves work because it stresses him out to be "too-connected". The truth is that tech can do both, enslave us or serve us, and it's all in the amount of control that you have technology to have in your life. Do you feel ABSOLUTELY COMPELLED to answer a ringing phone? It is in _your_ home, for _your_ convenience, and if you are busy, then let it ring and lose the stress. If you're in class, TURN YOUR FRIGGIN CELL PHONE OFF unless you just happen to be part of the 1% of the population that absolutely HAS to be reachable 24/7, and in that case, use the vibrate feature that almost all of them come with now.

    tech is what you make of it, like many other things...

    --
    Check my Go-related blog for beginners: DGD
  21. Perhaps I shall by Dungeon+Dweller · · Score: 2

    Well, if I get the $$$ together for a PDA, maybe I will :-)


    We're all different.

    --
    Eh...
  22. Err- OOPS. Real Mirror. by kashent · · Score: 2

    Well, my download just finished. Those pics are different, so, here's a mirror I put up with the new pics. Let's see if Rice University's got the bandwidth...
    http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~kashent/yopy/
    Oh, and they are uncompressed, for those of you who care. -Kashent

  23. Here is a MIRROR for you all :) by Cybersonic · · Score: 2

    Check out the pix at http://linuxfriendly.com and at http://ralph once it comes back up (had a drive failure)
    Enjoy! :)

    --
    Cybie! aka Ralph Bonnell
  24. Re:So write an interface then by be-fan · · Score: 2

    Now if MS said that, /. would be up in arms! The truth is, that comment (write your own interface) is just an excuse for a crappy product. That's fine if the guys are OSS guys who do this for free, but if I pay for a product, I want the interface done correctly dammit! I mean you can replace the GUI in Windows even though its not OSS (its called modularity) but hell, its MS's product, I paid for it, and I want THEM to do it.

    --
    A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
  25. What is the point of YOPY? by Trinition · · Score: 3
    Why do we need a Linux-based PDA? All right, it can be Linux-based, but it had better be a PDA.

    If they're just shrinking down a computer into a handheld format, then it's a handheld computer. Smaller screen, different input mechanism. But that doesn't make it a PDA.

    Besides being small, durable and portable, a PDA should above all else be an assistant -- as in Personal Digital Assitant.

    That means having software thats tailored to doing PDA-like things: checking off tasks, reading e-mail, looking up addresses, etc. It must be able to do all of these PDA-like things very quickly and easily.

    As a veteran of many WinCE/PPC/PalmOS debates, it is still my opinion that Windows CE and PocketPC are designed to be handheld computers more than a PDA. Microsoft started moving in the right direction by simplifying the user interface, but the fact is, it remains built upon a non-PDA-oriented OS.

    Is YOPY just going to be a Linux version of Windows CE? The most important thing about a PDA, the human interface, is said to be already emulating Windows CE, according to the author.

  26. Ingenious Secretary in Your Pocket by ch-chuck · · Score: 2

    Never quite got over that

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  27. Another site by DigitalDragon · · Score: 2

    You can find out more (including price) at This site

    --
    http://dtum.livejournal.com
  28. I've made a mirror for North Americans by toast- · · Score: 2

    Mirror Hosted in Canada on .EDU type link.

    Windows users: File will open with Winzip.
    Unix: Need i explain?

  29. Yopy links (FULL) by DigitalDragon · · Score: 3
    Yopy in the news

    http://slashdot .org/article.pl?sid=00/04/27/0858200&mode=thread
    http://linuxtoday.com/stories/17660.html
    http://www.geeknews.org/news/fe b00/newsitem090.html
    http://www.palmstation.com/ view_article.py?article=1786
    http://www.pdabuzz.com/Features/Yopy.html
    http://slashdot .org/article.pl?sid=00/02/27/1027237&mode=thread
    http://www.pcworld.com /pcwtoday/article/0,1510,15486,00.html
    http://www.ch ip.de/PC2D/PC2DB/PC2DBA/pc2dba.htm?id=323&ressort= 20 (German)
    http://www.twomobile.com/new_032200_y opy.html (obviously they didn't credit the source of the pictures and video footage!)
    http://ore illy.linux.com/pub/a/network/2000/05/05/magazine/L inuxPDA.html
    http://www.handheldmed.com/code/news /yopi1.htm
    http://www.gnn.de/0005/7603.html (German)
    http://www.p cwelt.de/content/news/newprodukte/2000/05/xn090500 003.html (German)

    Company sites, product information

    http://www.sem.samsung.co.kr/ eng/product/digital/pda/
    http://www.gmate.co.kr

    Links to other Yopy and general Linux-PDA ressources

    http://www.palmtopmagazin.de/board/linux Discussion about Linux-PDAs (German)
    http://www.palmtopmagazin.de/news/linux Linux-PDA news (German)
    http://www.theyopy.de German Yopy fan site
    http://www.handhelds.org Linux-Development for Compaq iPaq
    http://www.yopy.org Another Yopy fan site


    --
    http://dtum.livejournal.com
  30. the W interface & RISK plus andy groves watch by johnjones · · Score: 2

    one reason

    the only reason I can see for getting it done with W rather than X is fonts and widget set

    it I think is slower than X but offers a more complete solution

    X is fast as long as you dont use large bitmaps and widget sets which hog memory (QT and gtk are guilty when useing pixmaped themes ) I use X for Xterms and displaying a nice background and it runs @ light speed

    when we actualy use an proper solution then we will see how nice fonts can be !

    hell it uses a StrongARM it could if they wanted run X same as itsy
    they just went for a small development time with as few developers as possible this was to minamize RISK which as any project manager are BIG factors in what companys let you do

    compaq have a head start By owning digital where they actualy Know what the StrongARM is capable of !
    (they just dont know it yet and is towing the line with Microsoft)

    recompileing the kernel under WinCE is so nightmareish that nobody does it and so compromises it !
    this is how GNU/Linux can easly win

    plus have you noticed Redhat are hawking tools for the StrongARM .... Hmm

    andy Grove what did you learn by useing that intel watch !
    (dont worry its someone elses tech which works ! )

    fun and games

    john jones


    (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)

  31. Re:Raise your expectations! by kootch · · Score: 2
    and watch me shuffle my socked feet across a shag rug and zap you, effectively turning all of that cool gadgetry into dead hardware that's just waiting to rust in the depths of your brain.

    read Interface by Stephen Bury

  32. viewable mirror of the TGZ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I made a quick little page for those of you wanting to actually VIEW the contents of the TGZ file (as well as making a ZIP version). Thumbnails, etc. quick and dirty. http://rm-f.net/~orange/yopy/20000 725/index.html

  33. Re:CE and the YOPY by hey! · · Score: 2

    There's nothing particularly wrong with the WinCE user interface. And .. it is only superficially like the desktop interface. The very idea that it can take the place of a laptop for writing or real spreadsheet work is in itself problematic. But for PDA-ish and field computing type applications (stock taking, field surveys) the WinCE interface is fine.

    The real problem comes in the desktop integration. It's the idea of seamlessness that doesn't work. Sometimes you need to be able to see the seams because the "seamless" version papers over significnt things. Like some drivers I've seen that make tape drives "look like" hard drives -- yeah great, but I'd rather have a fast tape drive than a slooow hard disk. The same applies to the ActiveSync; it doesn't achieve what it sets out to do perfectly and with utter reliability, as Palm's Hotsynch does.

    In short, I've found ActiveSynch to be flaky. Better predictable and "seamy" than flaky and "seamless".

    My company uses both -- Palms for day to day stuff where utter reliability is the premium, WinCE handhelds for things that require more power in the field.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  34. "Ultimate" PDA is not a sensible concept by Christopher+B.+Brown · · Score: 2
    The genius of the PalmComputing platform is not that it is "ultimate" in any way.

    The Palm machines are designed around the exact opposite, namely being designed around a set of design compromises.

    • There is a limited set of buttons (7 in all)
    • There is a screen of limited size
    • Limited resolution
    • Limited set of colours
    • Limited amount of memory
    • Limited amount of CPU horsepower
    • NO "secondary storage."

      Thus nothing resembling "disk," or "files."

    This set of design constraints mean that rather than doing the "WinCE" thing of "trying to be Windows, with a somewhat smaller screen," PalmOS is completely different.

    It encourages creating embedded applications that do fairly specific things, rather than creating "generic" applications like spreadsheets to do "generic" things.

    While all of the above looks like criticism, particularly in light of the usual "GNU" thing of encouraging there to be no arbitrary limits, I would take the opposite tack. PalmOS has provided a case of relishing the limitations, and working with them rather than the approach of fighting against them.

    The net result has been pretty successful. You can do a number of useful things with a Palm III, which make it worth having one.

    I'm not sure that the Yopi has chosen its design compromises carefully enough to be able to be successful.

    • If all it provides is a faster address/calendar book than PalmComputing, it loses.

      PalmComputing generally doesn't suffer from being too slow.

    • If it needs a barrel of additional hardware, like keyboards and such, to be made useful, it loses.

      It needs to be useful without the extra stuff, unless it includes a keyboard by default.

    • If the "cool part" is merely that it runs Linux, it loses.

      A few people will run it because of that, but I'm a Linux advocate and I wouldn't spend the money just because of that.

      At present, the iPAQ 3600 may run Linux, but does so only if you have a desktop "terminal" to connect to it. It may ultimately become "useful on the road," but it's not there yet.

    I just don't think Yopi has yet come up with a suitable set of compromises in order to become amazingly functional.

    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
  35. Re:What's with this file? by DonkPunch · · Score: 2

    My Young Apprentice,

    I bit down on my tootsie roll when I heard you had been admitted to the hallowed halls of trolldom! To the wise trolls who admitted you, I can offer only this advice:

    Carry your own toilet paper with you.

    --

    Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
  36. Re:At least by spectecjr · · Score: 2

    Okay, I'll bite at the troll post..

    Hey, who's trolling?

    Tried saving unix file permissions in a .zip file? .. my case rests. Just because you don't know what to do with them doesn't mean they are not useful for other people. Also gzip, IIRC, as in what the tar (TApe Archive for the REALLY un-clued) is passed through to compress it, has a higher compression ratio than Zip compression.

    Depends on how you compress it. Images shouldn't be compressed anyway - not if they're GIF or JPG - you gain nothing.

    Frankly, I already know how to use tar and gzip - in fact, I can use Winzip to do the same thing if I want to (which is convenient).

    The permissions argument is a useless one for this particular instance anyway. Images don't need them. Documents don't need them. And that's what most people use Zip for.

    Where'd this 'many many more people use zip' comment come from?? obviously in windows-land they do.. that's plainly obvious.

    ZIP is available on Unix.
    JAR files use Zip compression.
    More people use Windows on a day to day basis - including surfing from work - than would be likely to have access to Tar and Gzip.

    Simon

    --
    Coming soon - pyrogyra
  37. Calm computing by tilly · · Score: 2

    Several years ago there was an excellent essay on ubiquitous technology, it was called Calm Computing.

    Well worth the read.

    Cheers,
    Ben

    --
    My usual seat in the cluetrain is at A HREF="http://pub4.ezboard.com/biwethey.ht