Hollywood Says If You Support Open Source, You're ...

bwt writes: "It now seems that the DVD-CCA has insulted the entire open source movement. They have responded to LiViD leader Matt Pavlovich's attempt to tell California that he doesn't live there and isn't bound by their laws by asking that his motion to quash be denied. Their opposition brief starts out: Defendant Pavlovich is a leader in the so-called 'open source' movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free. "

Comments

It becomes more clear everyday...

[Anonymous Coward]

That the MPAA can afford really good crack. `AC

Unpickets

[Chris Johnson]

Why not stand in front of Blockbuster allowing everyone to go in and giving them all copies of the source code to DeCSS, printed on paper? That would be a nice form of civil disobedience. Tell them they're not allowed to have that information and are committing a felony crime with maximum penalties worse than for rape and armed robbery, and give them the printout of the source code. When the police come to take you to jail, give them a copy of the source code too, and go nonviolently. When you are in prison get access to something that lets you print stuff out, and print up copies of the source code- when another inmate asks what you are in for, tell them it's the felony crime of giving people this information, and give them a copy (be nice- warn them that if they keep it they are committing a felony).

I am going to try fiddling with the code to see if I can get it to print attractively on one sheet of paper. I figure I can do a certain amount of this without going to jail, as long as _I_ don't stand in front of Blockbuster handing them out.

How about mailing copies to your Senators and representatives, asking if they would be good enough to simply keep the copy despite the fact that keeping that information is a felony crime? Might make for good sound bites, politicians like to be seen doing dramatic stuff like holding a press conference to say,

"I've just been mailed this sheet of paper by one of my constituents. It's some information, computer code that's been ruled illegal despite the protests of industry, education, and my own constituency. I'm framing it- it's going on my office wall to remind me what freedom is, and what it ain't. To the people who wanted to make this information illegal- if you want my copy, you can send over the police to come and get it. I'll hold another press conference, and you can take this information away from me on television!"

Now, how would that be? We need some politicians to recognize how media-friendly this situation can be to them. :)

Re:Then again....

[Sick Boy]

That "this is a UNIX(tm) system! I know this!"

That all hackers wear glasses (sunglasses if they're "hip") so that the ultra-bright monitor they're using provides visable glare against them.

That all hackers use 128 point fonts so that the folks at the back of the theater can read the screen.

That all hackers subsist solely on candy and jolt.

That all hackers skateboard/rollerblade/both.

etc.
--

Re:Usually I support the legal system

[FFFish]

Do you really think there's a more repressive regime than the US?

Did you know that Americans stand a 1/5 chance of going to jail at some point in their lives? If your so unfortunate as to be a black American, you're closer to a 1/3 chance of incarceration.

America has an incarceration rate of over 645/100000 annually. That's atrociously high.

Of course, the reason so many Americans are in jail is because the US government is running an ever-losing "war on drugs," mainly because it's highly profitable to a few people in power.

Alcohol kills six times more people than illegal drugs do, and smoking kills 30 times as many. But both remain legal. Speaking of pot, didja know that if you're a whiteboy caught with an ounce, you'll probably get nailed for possession; whereas if you're black, you're inevitably going to get charged with dealing. Blacks are fucked whenever they encounter the law.

But, let's not talk drugs: it's too controversial. Let's talk politics -- or, rather, not being allowed to be political.

Did you know that a third of the US population can't name a single first-amendment right? That'd include some biggies, like "freedom of speech" and
"freedom to peaceably assemble."

Certainly the LA and Philadelphia police don't know about those rights. There are people still in jail, nearly a month after the the GOP convention in Philly (http://www.phillyimc.org/) and the LA police beat the living shit out of folk who were protesting at the Democrat's convention.

Oh, this is just too depressing. I've got to stop writing about it... other than China, it could be difficult to find a more repressive regime than America.

--

Hollywood. Gotta love 'em.

[Lemmy Caution]

I have worked in a part of the software industry that overlaps with the entertainment business (complete with a Santa Monica office) and I gotta tell ya: while I met some nice people in The Business, there's such a self-important clue-deficit there about the way that anyone else works, that it's astounding.

And they are deeply threatened by Silicon Valley. Not so much economically - there's money is crap film and bad music that will never go away - but from the fact that silicon has become sexy in a way that celluloid used to be. (I know that's catch-phrasey, but hey.)

Don't expect them to get it. They never will, because if they did, their fragile ego-structures would crumble into dust.

I don't go!

[panda]

I haven't been to see a major, Hollywood film since November of last year.

I won't ever see their dreck again.

I also do not own, nor ever will own a DVD player. Perhaps, a DVD-RAM someday, but only if it works with OpenBSD and Linux and only if I get source to the drivers! Hell, I might write the drivers myself.

I'm sick of these corporate bastards and their lawyers. They try to make up for their own mediocrity by suing everything in sight.

But, this does prove one thing: the Internet truly is an amazing and unprecedented invention. It will wreak havoc with the law because of questions like this one, here: who has jurisdiction when some country's laws are broken.

I don't know that any laws were broken in this case. Why must they always parrot the "this software aids copying line" when it's clear that all we want is software to play their stinking movies? They're just pissed the software was written without using their reference implementation and therefore without a license fee having been paid. All I can say is, get used to it, boys! The world as you knew it is coming to an end.

Re:Well if you follow that logic...

[Chris Pimlott]

That should be

JAIL

[tiny69]

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http://www.pepper-land.net

http://www.philter.com/DVD

http://www.pippy.itgo.com

http://www.posexperts.com.pl/people/wrobell/css

http://www.projectbullshit.com/decss.html

http://www.projectgamma.com/deccs
http://www.qix.net/~pheonix/decss.html

http://www.ratol.fi/~asiipola

http://www.reapers.org

http://www.redgnatt.homestead.com

http://www.redrival.com/chimx/computers.html

http://www.robotslave.net

http://www.rpi.edu/~jettea/dvd.html

http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~marsie

http://www.scwc.net/DeCSS

http://www.sealteamsix.com/phagan

http://www.sk3tch.com/freedecss

http://www.smackfu.com/decss

http://www.spin.ch/~rca/decss

http://www.stanford.edu/~drumz/decss

http://www.stupendous.org

http://www.subcor.com

http://www.swcp.com/~ampere
http://www.tar.hu/decss

http://www.teamnismo.com/2600

http://www.underwhelm.org/decss

http://www.users.on.net/johnm/DeCSS

http://www.uwm.edu/~zachkarp

http://www.vent-soft.com/dvd

http://www.vexed.net/CSS

http://www.visi.com/~adept/liberty

http://www.vulgar.net/dvd

http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~echerry/dvd

http://www.webnx.com/tuna

http://www.webzsite.com/decss

http://www.wizardworkshop.com

http://www.wolfpaw.net/~decss

http://www.worldcity.nl/~frank/dvd

http://www.wwcn.org/~grit/free
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/dvd

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rasch/dvd

http://www.zeal.net/~pyro/DeCSS

http://www.zip.com.au/~zzz/dvd

http://www.zone.ee/DeCSS

http://www3.50megs.com/dvd4free

Who Wants To Be a Criminal?

[Platinum Dragon]

Let me see if I follow this logic:

By providing a link to this, this, or even this, I'm committing an injurious act to interests in the state of California.

Never mind that I legally purchased every single one of my DVDs. Never mind that I legally purchased the necessary hardware to play those DVDs, and that the DVD CCA got their cut from my purchases. Never mind that DeCSS "circumvents" CSS the same way entering my password "circumvents" the /etc/shadow file on my computer.

By aiding and abetting an open source programmer, I'm working to steal the intellectual property of Hollywood? I injured consumer electronics and computer manufacturers in California (whose products I legally purchased in order to be able to use the software player LiVid and the CSS decrypter DeCSS)?

If I have, then come get me .

Don't sweat it . . .

[werdna]

In such a forum, your opponents do you a favor each and every time they overreach. When they misstate the facts, particularly in so relevant and material a manner, they discredit themselves.

And in such a scenario, credibility is EVERYTHING.

When my opponents misstate the truth, they open avenues I never had before, and give me ways to win even when I have lost. Indeed, when you have a strong case, this is the greatest risk: learning to constrain yourself from overreaching.

This is cause for cheer. Relax, and look forward to reading the reply brief.

Free Speech for Programmers and New DeCSS Mirror

[goingware]

GoingWare would like to take this opportunity to assert that program source code is constitutionally protected free speech.

One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws

-- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

http://www.goingware.com/decss

If you can't provide a mirror for DeCSS yourself, perhaps you could at least show your support by displaying or linking to the DeCSS Support Ribbon. You can display it on your page, served by my server, with the following line of HTML:

<img src="http://goingware.com/decss/DVDRibbon.gif" alt="DeCSS Support Ribbon" width="85" height="138">

Remember folks, this isn't just about being able to watch movies anywhere you want on any OS you want. It's about being free from official government repression for speaking your mind, and if this case stands our precious freedom will suffer greatly for it - not freedom to consume products, but freedom to live as people with human rights, safe from official retribution for holding an opinion.

While Jack Valenti and the MPAA may be violating antitrust law and established Supreme Court precedents of Fair Use, Judge Kaplan is the far worse offender for having violated his oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.

Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow

Hey MPAA

[Greyfox]

Do you fucking idiots want to stick your feet any further down your throats before we declare a technological jihad?

Personally, I really don't care to have my work go to support these assholes. I might have to roll my own version of the GPL which specifically disallows anyone directly working for an MPAA related studio from using my code. It might even stand up in court if the UCITA catches on in more places.

Now I'm off to see if I can find someone who has access to the Lexus Nexus to dig up some background dirt on some Hollywood lawyers...

Re:Usually I support the legal system

[superkorn]

You must not have tried very hard to think of more repressive regimes than the US. You mentioned china already but that barely scratches the surface...

• Burma/Myanmar
• Indonesia
• Most any african nation you would care to name, with a few notable exceptions
• Singapore
• Vietnam
• Any of the remaing central or south american military dictatorships

I mean honestly it's the middle of the night and I was able to come up with those just off the top of my head. I get the feeling I am feeding a troll here but I just can't stop myself. Must be a good troll...

Anyway about this part: But, let's not talk drugs: it's too controversial. Let's talk politics -- or, rather, not being allowed to be political. Did you know that a third of the US population can't name a single first-amendment right? That'd include some biggies, like "freedom of speech" and "freedom to peaceably assemble."

That is indeed sad but it doesn't mean we are not being allowed to be political, it means we are generally stupid and poorly informed. You are drawing the wrong conclusion. The government is not engaged in a campaign to hide the constitution or anything like that, it's just that no one cares anymore...

Re:Fucking Morons.

[softsign]

You will never, EVER, get a judge to declare the DVD-CCA - with their armada of lawyers - a Vexacious Litigant.

Never.

That's why that law is such a joke.

--

Perjury

[Rev. Null]

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed in Menlo Park, California on August 18, 2000.

[Signature]
Jean Wirdzek

Would it be possible to counterattack with a perjury angle? I'm not even close to being a lawyer, but I read this thing and my bullshit detector was pretty much constantly beeping.

Malicious prosecution applies

[FriendlySolipsist]

No, "malicious prosecution" applies in a civil proceeding, too. It refers to the case being prosecuted maliciously, not the defendant. What you are thinking of, by the way, is "abuse of process."

I agree with your legal analysis of the jurisdiction question, but this is certainly not malicious prosecution. There is a huge difference in collecting for a tort from someone who knows he is wrong as distinct from someone who merely happens to be wrong.

The pleading on Cryptome (opposing the motion to quash for lack of jurisdiction) is quite strange. One of the issues here is not simply multiplicity of proceedings, but an actual multiplicity of laws. This goes to the heart of the Interstate Commerce Clause. That is, suppose someone in Texas takes an action which is legal in Texas and illegal in California? The pleading essentially asserts that an aggrieved party in California would have the right to call the party in Texas into the state courts of California to answer for the action. That would be very, very dangerous. Insterstate commerce would grind to an abrupt halt if such a practice were to be allowed.

grr, argh

[gunner800]

This is obviously a blatant lie, and I'd gladly bet that it's intentional. They know better, but they're lying their assess off to the judge because they know they can get away with it.

Because people with money are somehow more believable, more respectable, more legit that the rest of us.

We need some established, filthy rich, vocal support to counter this crap. That, and perjury charges...


My mom is not a Karma whore!

Re:Usually I support the legal system

[ShakaUVM]

Yes, there are a lot of countries more oppresive than America. China, Afghanistan, sure. But even Great Britain is worse... if you don't think constant video surveillance on all of its citizens counts, then I don't think I understand your use of the word.

The "abuse" at the hands of the Philidelphia police on the GOP protestors is a notorious hoax. A horde of reporters at the convention interviewed people in the jail and couldn't find anything worse than "I bumped my head entering the jail wagon"

Your whole post reeks of sophistry... You say "1/3 of Americans can't name a single 1st amendment right" -- I'll put 20$ on it that the question was "Name the 1st Amendment." instead of "Have you ever heard of Freedom of Speech?" Typical way to influence statistics.

As is the 1/5th incarceration rate, and 1/3 for black. Bull-fucking-shit. I think the arrest rate for blacks is 1/10, and for whites quite a bit lower than that. Not considering recalcitrant offenders is a complelety blockheaded way of saying 1/5th of Americans will be behind bars. And you know what? A number of people get arrested that don't get imprisoned. My roommate was arrested and fingerprinted for being drunk in public, but was not even brought before a judge.

The rising incarceration rate, at least in California, is the three strikes law, which imprisons those who would normally walk. This points to more enforcement than more crime.

I think all my sophistry alerts went off on your post... even saying that "Alchohol kills 6x as many people as illegal drugs" is complete bullshit, since you aren't considering the facts that more people drink than use drugs. Thats like me saying that there is discrimination of people with grey hair because more of them die of heart attacks than people with dark hair...

Pfft.

Perjury not defamation

[-Harlequin-]

Obviously, a perjury case (won or lost) would be a huge slap in the credibility of the MPAA, and perhaps even dent the "We're the Good Guys!" lie.

Reading all the comments, a defamation case faces some pretty fatal problems. I think we should turn our attention to perjury - also difficult, but plausible. Garbus and co (working on another case) have screeds and screeds of documents from the MPAA, which include selected "incriminating" logs of the community which (despite the bias) almost certainly include enough information about the community to be good evidence. The question is - can those documents be accessed for such purposes? (My suspicion is no).

The MPAA has clearly done enough (one-sided) research into open-source that they do know better, and there will be documentation to that effect somewhere. How can we go about finding it? Is anyone with access to MPAA documentation (or working for the MPAA) able and willing to "leak" such a document?

They boasted of the thousands of pages of information they had that was written by the community. That almost certainly means we're talking perjury, if we can only get our hands on their documents.

Annoyed by DVD-CCA Lawyers? Write & tell em

[tagishsimon]

AFAIK, and IANAL, but what the hey: the emails of the authors of the Open Source insult appear to be:

Jared Bobrow
Robert G. Sugarman
Jeffrey L. Kessler (there are a couple of others whose emails are not listed - I'd guess they are:
Christopher Cox
Edward Burke
Jonathan Shapiro

Why not write to them and let them know what you think their slander?. Or you could fax 'em on (650) 854-3713 or (212) 310-8007.

Re:Usually I support the legal system

[AndrewD]

What you're saying only holds water if the US states are sovereign nations rather than local government. The sovereignty of the states has never been more than a polite legal fiction, a fortiori since 'prox 1865.

Panama, mentioned elsewhere in this thread, is similarly not genuinely sovereign - it, and assorted other post-colonial flyspecks, are as sovereign as their former rulers and/or powerful neighbours let them be and not a whit more.

Now, if someone wanted to sue me, British Citizen, in California, the most they'd get out of me is a polite letter to the judge pointing out that I ain't submitting to the jurisdiction.

Re:Well if you follow that logic...

[GrenDel Fuego]

Linux was used for rendering 3-D for the movie titanic, and most likely in other movies.

I wonder if Hollywood realises that they're accessories after the fact.

Arrogance.

[Signal 11]

They don't realize what they're dealing with, do they? A traditionally decentralized group, computer geeks, have a modus operandi of operating under the radar screens of people like this. Infact, geeks usually only notice these kinds of people when they are specifically pointed out.

So you have this MASSIVE decentralized movement consisting of between 80 and 300 thousand people, depending on who's figures you go by, and they keep a low profile. Sure, you get a few lawsuits here, alittle press there, but considering the magnitude of what we are doing, it's suprising this hasn't been making the headlines for weeks on end - it's far bigger than the OJ Simpson trial, the Year 2000 New Year's Bash, or, well.. any event since the start of the millenium.

No, I think they're strutting around, being the pompous asses that they are, and they have no clue that they're opening the pandora's box of copyright issues - if there has ever been an organized attempt to take down corporations, this is it. Demonstrations in Seattle and the NAFTA protests before that pale in comparison to the damage a successful attack on IP would do in this country. And rather than taking us seriously, they're calling us a bunch of immature punk kids with a bent on going against the grain and who have a keyboard. That is not at all who they are dealing with. They are dealing with the Borg - a decentralized movement with no leaders, and a common cause. How the hell are they going to combat an idea? Imprison every developer in the world? Who will keep the e-commerce infrastructure going, or the "dot commies"?

Heh, it's the other way around guys, you're being a bunch of arrogant suits and you're about to get your ass handed back to you by a bunch of hippies who do nothing but convert caffeine into code all day. I'm going to love watching this..

Shouldn't OSI sue over this?

[Angst Badger]

Defendant Pavlovich is a leader in the so-called 'open source' movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free."

Open Source/Free Software nitpicking aside, Open Source -- ahem -- Open Source(tm) is a trademark of the Open Source(tm) Initiative. To say that the Open Source(tm) movement actively encourages criminal activity is defamatory and actionable and demonstrably does harm to the Open Source(tm) trademark and the interests of the businesses that endorse it.

At least, I know if a bunch of Hollywood lawyers called a press conference to accuse freakin' IBM of actively encouraging criminal activity, seismographs on the other side of the planet would be able to detect the rumbling herd of bulk-cloned attorneys pouring from the sluice gates of the vast monolith that is Big Blue.

So maybe the OSI can get their lawyers -- uh, lawyer -- to get off his duff and act like a real corporate attorney.

--

Re:Won the Battle, may Loose the War

[Sloppy]

The real enemy is the DMCA, not the MPAA, but even if the DMCA is overturned, it may not matter. You can bet the next technology after DVD will use much stronger encryption, and with decryption keys that can be changed over time or are customized to each individual user, not to mention digital watermarks, etc. - they've learned their lesson and the next system will be much harder to crack, or if it proves crackable, much harder to make a mass distributable circumvention tool. If it can't be cracked, then presence or lack of the DMCA won't really matter.

Doing what it takes to make this happen, though, would cost them dearly. Basically, they would never be able to have general-purpose programmable computers be used to play movies. Because if they did, any mass-distributed player would be vulnerable to RE.

As long as they will allow personal computers to be used to playing movies, legislation like DMCA (and UCITA too) will be the only thing they can do to keep competing players off the market. They're also eventually going to have to repeal a bunch of anti-trust legislation too.

OTOH, I agree that if they decide to bite the bullet and not allow their stuff to be played on personal computers (as we currently know them), where there is an encrypted stream all the way to the monitor, then they can keep students from using Schilder's List excerpts for their holocaust reports, unless the student will settle for an analog sample.

The problem is we're so dependent on Hollywood for our entertainment that it won't work - how many of us will give up seeing the next Star Wars movie? Really, how many?

Don't count on that dependance forever. They currently have strong influence over the currently popular means of distribution (theaters and rental stores), but there is this little thing called The Internet that will eventually pose a threat. Since that fateful day that I downloaded an MP3 in order to hear a band that I would otherwise never get to hear, I have bought thousands of dollars worth of music, much of it from non-RIAA labels.

In the MPAA-vs-2600 trial, MPAA made a big deal about codecs like Divx that might some day be used to pirate MPAA movies. And these video codecs are indeed a threat, but not because of piracy, but because they can be used to compete with Hollywood without relying on the means of distribution that Hollywood controls.

Geez, I've seen ads on Comedy Central for little movies to download via The Internet. In a few years, that sort of thing could be quite mainstream and not-so-gimmicky. It's not so much that I wouldn't want to see Star Wars, as it is that there could be so many non-Hollywood movies competing with Star Wars. And if Holywood were to face competition like that, who is to say that the prime movers of entertainment would be willing to make less profit by staying with the dinosaurs? If big already-established names like George Lucas are already guaranteed a large audience, then why shouldn't they get out of the system and go indy, so they have even more control and profit?

Time is on our side and Hollywood is going to lose market share.

---

Re:Then again....

[leperjuice]

...what does Hollywood know about the computer industry?

Don't be so skeptical; Hollywood has many highly paid people whose job it is to consult on computer issues. I mean, just look at the wonderful film "The Net" and you'll see that they obviously have done their homework.

They never quit.

[DzugZug]

Well First off let me say that none of this surprises me anymore. I've come to expect this kind of FUD. However, there are a few things to point out.

• In the Plaintiffs closing brief in the 2600 trial, they claimed that certain exemptions (e.g., fair use and reverse engineering for compatibility) dont apply because the defendants were not actualy engaged in reverse engineering. How the DVD CCA can then sue people at livid is beyond me.

• The plaintiffs in this case (the lawyers really) twist words around so well (as lawyers often do) that it amazes me. All they have to say is that the open source community suports free distribution of software on the internet. Even that sounds bad if you don't really understand the Open Source movement.

• Even if we were advocates of piracy, how does that affect the legal issue of whether someone outside of California can be bound to California law or an injunction in a California district court? It doesn't. This is simply trying to tarnish the character of the defendants.

• Matt Pavlovich is an individual. The DVD CCA and the MPAA are corporations. That means that they have a buffer of limited liability. By naming individuals as parties to the law suit they are protecting the corporate members of the MPAA and DVD CCA while holding the defendants personaly responcible.

BTW, Im wearing my illegal copyleft T-Shirt right now.

Re:When is it libelous?

[Error27]

Open Source _used_ to be a trade mark but it isn't any more.

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for- freedom.html:

"The advocates of ``open source software'' tried to make it a trademark, saying this would enable them to prevent misuse. The attempt went awry when the application was allowed to lapse in 1999; thus, the legal status of ``open source'' is the same as that of ``free software'': there is no legal constraint on using it. "

Terminology.

[istartedi]

The quote in the article sounds more like a description of the warez community.

When I hear people say "all software should be free" I think of the Free Software movement.

When I hear people say "free sofware can sometimes be a lot better than commercial sofware" I think of the Open Source movement.

Of these three movements, it's rather ironic that they should choose to slam Open Source, since it's the most conservative of the three. One is apt to believe that businessmen protecting their commercial interests are conservatives. OTOH, Hollywood is actually full of liberals.

We may be witnessing them being torn between their liberalism and their desire to make a buck.

Actually, this falls in line with something I've been saying for a while: "The left doesn't know what's right anymore".

For example, you used to be able to count on the left supporting labor. But now you've got Bill Clinton and Al Gore supporting trade with China. That's certainly confused a lot of trade unionists.

Now we've got the Free Software movement, certainly a creature of the left, being opposed by Hollywood liberals. Conservatives, take note. Here is an opportunity to divide and conquer.

Re:Fucking Morons.

[Snocone]

I really think some high profile people should sue the MPAA over this particular piece of fiction. It's incredibly insulting.

Legal filings are specifically exempted from liability of allegation in virtually all jurisdictions inheriting from British common law. The theory is that this prevents the target of a lawsuit crushing the plaintiff with their greater legal resources and so forth.

In practice, this means they can say Open Source advocates are crooks and goatfuckers if they feel like it ... and there's nothing you can do.

History of The Baddies in Hollywood film

[-Harlequin-]

As we know, the USA, or more precisely, Hollywood, always needs a Bad Guy.

1970's - The Red Commie Threat.
1980's - Those evil arab nations that sell us our oil and have corrupt military leaders.
1990's - Drug runners (with links to evil S. American nations with corrupt military leaders).
Late 90's - Those terrible two-dimensional Terrorists whose sole purpose in life is to kill as many Americans as possible. Why this is, we're not told (perhaps we might sympathise with them?). They're just born that way apparently.
Coming up next - those evil computer thieves and hackers who wield greater threat to your lives than all the above combined.

In most movies to date, hackers have usually been the good guys, and bad hackers are usually just opposition for the good hackers to defeat. Movies in which a Joe Average hero is besieged on all sides by a foe with unlimited resources have usually had the foe played by things like intelligence services, corrupt institutions and the like.
I suspect that as Hollywood execs in their isolated circles hear more and more about how great a threat is posed by these computer people, and as the net remains a sexy background for movies, but familiar to more people, we may start to see more movies in which we get to play the archvillain, whether we want to or not. And we'll have powers we never dreamed of (like hacking Russian spy satellites in order to take telephoto pictures of your credit card number as you pay for something, or your wife undressing*. Actually, they would have to be US satellites because Hollywood is currently dedicated to the idea that all Russian technology is stuck in the 50's)

Hmmm, writing this incredibly 2d summary of Hollywood movies yet having it so aptly sum up so many movies sorta rams home how numbingly stupid the films are.

Harlequin - Archvillain for hire...
hire details

(And offended at the idea of working for hollywood against my will :)

*Telephoto pictures of your wife undressing, not pictures of you paying your wife to undress...

Re:Slander

[Veteran]

By the way, I see a way to stop these sorts of attacks against open source.

Suppose that each individual author who has contributed open source code files a civil lawsuit against this attorney for slander. These are not frivolous suits; he HAS slandered us. Fighting one law suit is difficult and expensive enough; fighting a few thousand is a practical impossibility.

What we have in our favor is numbers - this is a way to use those numbers to fight the big money on the other side.

--

The law, 100's of millions of lines of code - not one line of which has ever been tested to see if it works [

Dangerous Resource

[zelyan]

If a state cannot redress injuries directed at that state through web site activity, then the power of the Internet will become a dangerous resource...

Totally correct. The Internet is a dangerous resource, because you cannot control it. Someone in another country has rights that you don't have control over, because they have different laws.

The result? They sue, to try to regain control because big business sees people's speech as damaging their profits.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know any sites that provide movies copied from DVDs using DeCSS? I've seen a lot of avi's and mpgs copied from VHS, and a few copied from DVDs using the older copiers, but I've never seen anyone post or provide (IRC, Gnutella, etc) a _good_ copy of a DVD. They're just too big!

Even admitting that I don't search really hard for .vob files, how many can there be? They're too big to download easily, too big to keep many, and too rare to show up in the many places I visit.

So where the hell is the $4 billion dollars of loss (or whatever they're claiming) coming from?

Jeff

Faulty Reasoning

[Anonymous Coward]

Fact: Some Open Source Advocates post copyrighted materials on the internet without permission or compensation to the author.

Conclusion: Open Source is about publishing other peoples copyrighted materials on the internet without permission or compensation to the author.

Isn't this like saying....

Fact: Some filmmakers use narcotics in violation of US law.

Conclusion: Filmmaking is about advocating and using illegal narcotics.

Re:RIAA and MPAA

[Tony Shepps]

What this really means, of course, is that your Monday morning chat around the water-cooler will be highly eclectic, because there won't be any "Friends" or "Seinfelds" - we'll move in different circles.

Which would continue what has been a generational shift away from group-think, when three channels were enough for anyone, towards individuality where 100 channels are no longer enough. The Internet clearly has the capability to increase the number of channels, to the point where if I don't like YOUR reality-based show I'll just produce my own.

The next question is how long society will tolerate this before reverting back to conformity and three "channels" again. If our only common experience is that we were lied to by the same politicians and corporations, then when a real crisis occurs, our fractured society will urgently look to find commonality wherever it can, including in its entertainment.

For more on this topic, please see The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe.
--

Re:Fucking Morons.

[Brian Ristuccia]

Legal filings are specifically exempted from liability of allegation in virtually all jurisdictions inheriting from British common law. The theory is that this prevents the target of a lawsuit crushing the plaintiff with their greater legal resources and so forth.

Let's not forget that malicious prosecution is still illegal. If their lawsuit is baseless and the entire intent is to harass or defame me, then it's unlikely this exemption will apply. Also, court filings are usually made under the penalty of perjury. Submitting deliberately false filings to the effect that I'm a goatfucker when they know I'm not could land them with fines or jail. Again, for the protection of the little guy.

Re:Well if you follow that logic...

[Sick Boy]

Everytime I read one of these "Hollywood says... [oss is stealing|DeCSS is solely for copyright infringement| etc...]" I get the voice of Andy Kauffman in my head saying

"I'm from HOLLYWOOD. Not from <goofy hick voice>REDNECK TENNESEE!</voice> I'm important, I'm from HOLLYWOOD! You people have nothing to say to me, I AM FROM HOLLYWOOD!"

It shouldn't come as much of a surprise that the parody turns out to be too, too true...
--

Well if you follow that logic...

[Magus311X]

That would make crooks out of IBM, RedHat, Dell, Sun... oh wow... lots of major corporations. Thousands of people. God no. Quickly, lock 'em all up and throw away the key before this gets out of hand!

*sarcasm mode off*

I wonder if Hollywood realizes that this is bigger than they think. ;)


------------------

Someone please pass the L.A.R.T....

[trims]

... I've got a good target to whack.

I'm going to leave the Open Source slurs aside, since they're not really relevant (though, as one previous poster pointed out, they hurt the MPAA since it's a direct loss of credibility).

They're misquoting (or should I say, misusing) the case law precedent. The case laws covers only:

• the "victim" resides strictly within California, and has no presence elsewhere.
• the accused must specificly target the victim in the action, or it must be reasonably to assume that the victim knows the action will cause direct harm to the victim. Damage caused through third parties is not sufficient. Thus, you can sue a chemical plant in Nevada for polluting the drinking water of a CA town downriver in a CA court. However, I can't sue you for unfair pricing (e.g. "dumping") in CA if your store is in Nevada, even if my store in CA is right across the border from you.
• The vast majority of the case law precident covers criminal law. There is very little precident (if any) for civil law. This is a civil case.
• The case law doesn't cover inter-state commerce, which this most certainly is.

Also, I'd like to point out one further thing that I find unusual of this whole thing:

This is a civil case about trade secrets. In order to prove a trade secret case, you have to show proof that the accused gained information about the secret through unlawful means. As of right now, reverse engineering is not an illegal means, no matter what the shrink-wrap says on a product. Right now, shrink-wrap licenses are unenforcable and invalid, period.

Also, the DCMA doesn't apply to this case. Now, depending on the rulings about the DCMA, making LiViD might be illegal, but the methods of discovering how to make LiViD (that is, discovering how CSS worked) are not illegal, even under a strict DCMA ruling.

This case is strictly about reverse-engineering a trade secret, and the MPAA has absolutely no leg to stand on, other than perhaps having more money to blow on lawyers.

Fundamentally, I'd counter-sue for malicious prosecution (that's the criminal law term, there's a civil law equivalent, but I can't remember the phrase), since the suit is prima facia invalid.

Fuck them with a red hot poker.

-Erik

Usually I support the legal system

[swerdloff]

But this time, this is just plain stupid.

You do _NOT_ get jurisdiction over every single human being in the entire world merely because they post something on the 'net.

If you do, then we're in trouble when a more repressive regime than the US attempts to indict us in the US for crimes against their nation elsewhere.

This is seeing the trees but not the forest, people. You get jurisdiction over someone by _actively_ doing something involving the forum state. This could be something as simple as putting your information into interstate commerce - but the idea that putting something on the net, for free, is in interstate commerce probably violates a half dozen treaties, not to mention the entire concept of jurisdiction.

(IANAL, usual rules of don't bother fact checking this because I haven't either. And don't rely on this for anything - consult a real lawyer before fighting a megacorporation with tentacles all over the world just like HYDRA)

Re:Usually I support the legal system

[tm2b]

You do _NOT_ get jurisdiction over every single human being in the entire world merely because they post something on the 'net.

Snort.

What country do you live in? I refer you to the case where the United States invaded Panama, apprehended Manuel Noriega, and brought him back to the US where he was convicted of crimes against US law while leading Panama, a sovereign nation.

Do you really think being in another state is going to be more than a minor inconvenience?

Fucking Morons.

[himi]

This would be unbelievable if we hadn't already seen just how mindless the MPAA and CCA have been in the past.

I just skimmed the brief, and it could probably be considered defamation on the FSF, lots of people like Linus, ESR, various people like Bob Young, even Tim O'Reilly . . . Basically, it accuses anyone who claims to be involved with the `open source' movement of supporting theft of intellectual property. This might be my non-legal mind misunderstanding what they were saying, but it's pretty damned blatant, as far as I'm concerned.

I really think some high profile people should sue the MPAA over this particular piece of fiction. It's incredibly insulting.

On another note, if they really do think this about the open source world, it would explain why they're being so paranoid about us - they seem to think we really are out to get them, however we can.
Personally I'm not, and I don't think you could say that this particular group of people really agrees on anything enough to say that we're out to get someone . . .

In any case, this is an incredibly dumb document, put out by a group that, it is becoming increasingly clear, is completely disconnected from anythin that remotely resembles the real world. I think the MPAA should be taken out the back and shot (metaphorically speaking, of course . . . ;-) They're becoming more dangerous than useful, IMHO.

himi
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What they're really saying is ......

[taniwha]

"if we let this open source thing get out of hand pretty soon people will start making their own entertainment and give it away for free ....."

Kind of like before the invention of the radio .....

Here's a clickable link to EFF DVD Legal Fund

[goingware]

Yes, it's important to be informed, and reading Slashdot helps you get informed. But you cannot effect meaningful change unless you act on your knowledge.

Some people, like Eric Corley, are acting by defying the MPAA and risking financial ruin if they lose the DeCSS case.

Some, like the Electronic Frontier Foundation are working to preserve our rights in the networked era by defending brave folks like Corley.

Even with attorneys working pro-bono, mounting a legal defense is terribly expensive (just think of the cost of long-distance calls and plane fare for the participants). One way you can make a difference is by joining the EFF, which you can do with a credit card at the following link:

https://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html

(You can also mail in a check.)

If you do nothing else to work for the cause of justice in the DeCSS case, at least join the EFF. It will only take a few minutes, and you can give what you're comfortable with.

Here's a clickable link to EFF DVD Legal Fund

[goingware]

If you want to join the Electronic Frontier Foundation and support the side of truth and justice in the DVD case, click here:

https://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html

And if you want to read about why this matters, click here:

http://www.goingware.com/decss

It's not about watching movies on Linux anymore.

It's about your right to say what you want in a free society. Eric Corley is a member of the press, and 2600's web site is his publication. Judge Kaplan has just permanently enjoined Corley from practicing unrestrained journalism.

If To Accuse Somebody...

[istartedi]

...at least do it right. Free Software is a "movement". Open Source is just a study in economics.

Time to send the EFF another $100

[renehollan]

Well, with the case against 2600 surely going to appeal, and now this, I'm sure the EFF will have it's hands full.

I sent them $100 a while ago in a fit of temporary wealth. Maybe it's time to do it again. Yeah, I also bought Copyleft's anti-DVDCCA shirt (someone at work actually thought my posession of it was illegal without even caring whether such a law was just -- scary. Since I'm not in Judge Kaplan's judisdiction, I'm sure this isn't the case.)

Better yet, perhaps it's time to send, oh, I don't know $20 or $30 a month to the EFF on a regular basis. Anyone know if they accept ongoing contributions via credit card?

FWIF, I don't own a DVD player (and won't buy one unless I can view movies with free software), don't collect MP3s of copyright works, and will actually purchase a CD for one song, if I like it (though I'd prefer if the artist got more of my money for it.) Heck, I've purchased some CDs because I liked the cover art! (And have usually liked the music to boot.) I've boycotted movies (and amazon.com because of their stupid patent) for about six months now (not perfectly -- it's hard with a 7 year old, but cutting consumption is the important thing).

The frightening thing about this is that MPJDGI (Most People Just Don't Get It). They equate the internet as some kind of "interactive TV" in terms of "serving content", instead of a place where you get and share what you wish. An ignorant mob is a dangerous mob.

Also, the issues are so obvbious to "us" that often we don't even realize that "they" don't get it. Ever explain something to a wanna-be code jockey, only to have them program some real garbage? That's how dealing with "the masses" on these issues is.

While the DVD CCA, and MPAA have legitimate beefs against copyright violation, I fear that a great deal of baby is going to get thrown out with that particular brand of bathwater before this issue settles down.

Rene S. Hollan

DVDCCA.org uses Apache

[proxima]

Interesting that the DVDCCA is bashing open source (ok, they make some very negative deragatory comments about "open source" which seemed to mock it.), when they use it. I did an HTTP request to dvdcca.org, and they apparently use Apache 1.3.3 on Unix. Try it yourself, if you'd like. Funny, considering the hypocrisy post earlier today.

Reverse Engineering not illegal under Calif. TSA

[EricEldred]

MPAA is missing something: the California Trade Secrets Act provides a complete defense:

They say:

Pavlovich knew DeCSS was developed by reverse engineering (Pavlovich Aug. Depo., pp. 32-33) and that such reverse engineering is illegal (LiVid posting, October 1, 1999, attached as Exhibit C to 23 Shapiro Decl.);

Pavlovich sought to distribute plaintiff s trade secrets while knowing that such action was illegal (LiVid postings, November 10, 1999, attached as Exhibit C to Shapiro Decl.);

At the time Pavlovich posted DeCSS on the Internet, he knew that DeCSS facilitates the pirating of DVDs (Pavlovich Aug. Depo., pp. 59- 2 60);

At the time Pavlovich posted DeCSS on the Internet, he knew that pirating DVDs is wrongful conduct (Pavlovich Aug. Depo., p. 71).

And here is the defense, at eff.org:

CALIFORNIA CIVIL CODE : SECTION 3426.1

3426. This title may be cited as the Uniform Trade Secrets Act.

3426.1. As used in this title, unless the context requires otherwise:

(a) "Improper means" includes theft, bribery, misrepresentation, breach or inducement of a breach of a duty to maintain secrecy, or espionage through electronic or other means. Reverse engineering or independent derivation alone shall not be considered improper means.

(b) "Misappropriation" means:

(1) Acquisition of a trade secret of another by a person who knows or has reason to know that the trade secret was acquired by improper means; or

(2) Disclosure or use of a trade secret of another without express or implied consent by a person who:

(A) Used improper means to acquire knowledge of the trade secret; or

(B) At the time of disclosure or use, knew or had reason to know that his or her knowledge of the trade secret was:

(i) Derived from or through a person who had utilized improper means to acquire it;

(ii) Acquired under circumstances giving rise to a duty to maintain its secrecy or limit its use; or

(iii) Derived from or through a person who owed a duty to the person seeking relief to maintain its secrecy or limit its use; or

(C) Before a material change of his or her position, knew or had reason to know that it was a trade secret and that knowledge of it had been acquired by accident or mistake.

(c) "Person" means a natural person, corporation, business trust, estate, trust, partnership, limited liability company, association, joint venture, government, governmental subdivision or agency, or any other legal or commercial entity.

(d) "Trade secret" means information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process, that:

(1) Derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to the public or to other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use; and

(2) Is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy.

[Emphasis added. So not only is reverse engineering perfectly legal under California trade secret law, it is also perfectly legal under the DMCA right now, and in Norway, where the reverse engineering took place. Send check to EFF.org now!]

Re:Jurisdiction

[DreamMaster]

As is often noted, "one who intentionally shoots a bullet into a state is as subject to the judicial jurisdiction of [that] state ... as if he had actually fired the bullet in the state."

What's so stupid about them providing examples like this is that it ignores one of the most basic principles of the Internet - that it is an individual user that "pulls" information to himself. The publisher of information doesn't distribute to *anywhere* in the world except the server on which he or she places it.

RIAA and MPAA

[carrier lost]

I'm getting kind of tired of this.

The Entertainment industry wants us to consume but they want to control how and where we do this consumption. I keep thinking of the money fleeced from consumers by the invention of the CD - it was supposed to cut costs of album production, and it did, from ~$10 per to ~$1 per - but did the recording industry reduce prices to consumers?

Even now, the sludge-brains at the record companies are offering music on the internet for - surprise - the same price you'd pay for the CD at Wal-Mart. Gee - I have to sit through a download and then burn a CD and I get no cover art, no liner notes, no CD case, shit, I even have to provide the blank CD and I still have to pay $15 for an album?!

Gnrow!

Yah.

Somehow or another the giants must fall. The gigantic, monolithic, blood-sucking industry that surrounds all popular culture must fall. If it doesn't, freedom will. They can't ever be allowed to tell us what protocols we can use, what software we aren't allowed to own on the assumption that we might put it to illegal use. This cannot be allowed to happen!

There's no need anymore for NBC, Sony Records, United Artists as they stand. The status quo is gone. The future of artistic endeavor has to be: you put it up, you're honest and good, people visit your site and pull it down. No record companies, only music reviewers. No movie industry, just reviewers, etc. Artists and the trusted portals will be the champions, dissemination will be ubiquitous.

What this really means, of course, is that your Monday morning chat around the water-cooler will be highly eclectic, because there won't be any "Friends" or "Seinfelds" - we'll move in different circles.

I'm getting tired.

That is all.

MjM

Remember One Thing:

[Vociferous Troll]

The idea of giving away a high-quality product for free is completely alien to Hollywood (and therefore, to Hollywood attorneys.) They are used to producing some of the lowest-quality stuff imaginable and then charging you up the ying-yang for it. Two different schools of thought.

The guy's still an idiot, of course, but at least we can understand why. :)

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