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Levitating Liquids In Simulated Zero-G
Ocean Quigley writes: "These researchers at Case Western University are making liquids float in magnetic fields, just as if they were in Zero G. By varying the strength of the fields, they can emulate changes in gravity.
Take a look at:
http://www.cwru.edu/pubaff/univco mm/liqbridge.htm." Very neat thinking on the part of these researchers -- don't fight gravity directly, but merely counteract it! Unfortunately, it doesn't look like a technique that can be applied to human beings yet, so you still need a plane or an elevator for your low-G experiences ;)
How strong of a magnetic field does it take to kill a person?
Could you use a very strong field and kill some one instantly as well as painlessly, or would it just be messy?
The problem is that you neglected to let anyone know this guy was a kook before you quoted his theory.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
Scientific American has a fairly balanced article on the subject, Exploiting Zero-Point Energy. By balanced, I mean it's probably excessively generous in allowing that there might be something in some of the crackpot theories of zero-point energy.
The suggestion given about using zero-point energy to affect gravity makes no sense to me. If it was taken from that book, I would suggest that you consider the book highly suspect, or at least speculative to the point of fantasy.
Most supposed exploitations of zero-point energy ignore what we really do know about it, namely that Heisenberg's principle means that by definition, it manifests in really, really small quantities. The only known and peer-verified effect that's commonly attributed to zero-point energy is the Casimir effect, which as described in the Scientific American article, is capable of generating mere nanonewtons of force - the weight of a blood cell in the Earth's gravitational field.
Zero-point energy proponents make all sorts of assumptions about things that we can't possibly test, nor do we have any reason to believe that they're true. For example, the idea that there's an infinite reservoir of energy orthorgonal to the dimensions we live in, that might somehow be tapped. The zero-point energy of real physics implies nothing of the kind, and there is no evidence of this. This idea comes from a naive conception of energy and its creation - "there are very small amounts of energy everywhere in the universe at all times, therefore it must be coming from an infinitely huge reservoir."
In fact, the best quantum theory interpretations imply that zero-point energy is actually created and destroyed in the vacuum, i.e. the energy does not lead a separate existence (as in a reservoir) outside of the particle-antiparticle generation and annihilation that occurs continually at the levels which Heisenberg's principle predicts. Further, these interactions are theoretically limited in size, since if they exceeded Heisenberg's limits they would violate what we know about conservation of energy. So what we really know about zero-point energy is that you would have to "farm" unimaginably huge volumes of space to obtain useful amounts of energy, and that there are any number of more practical energy sources around us.
But let's assume I'm completely wrong and you could somehow extract large amounts of energy from an arbitrary point in space. It still wouldn't create the gravity warping machine described. Once fully present in our universe, this large amount of energy would radiate like any other large energy source - you'd effectively have created a small star in your vicinity, although one which burns without the need for pesky raw materials. Yes, this virtual star would affect spacetime (and therefore gravity) around it, but I suspect your elation at the levitation effect thus achieved would be rather diminished by your imminent demise as you and everything around you is fried to a crisp.
Of course, regardless of its impracticality as a gravitational generator, being able to extract large amounts of energy from nothing seems like it might be useful. But, even if this were possible (and all evidence and current knowledge indicates otherwise), you'd still face the same problems that are faced by builders of fusion reactors - how to contain and tap that energy. After all, "hot" fusion is already capable of providing huge amounts of energy using minimal raw materials, without the dangerous waste produced by nuclear fission; but unfortunately, no-one has yet been able to come up with a way to actually implement a practical fusion reactor.
Zero G, in other words, when the net force applied to an object is 0G. G is a unit of force, equal to the force of gravity at earth's surface at the equator at sea level (right?).
If you are in orbit, in a freefall (yes, orbit is freefall) towards earth, or out in the middle of interstellar space... you experience zero G, as in NO FORCE APPLIED.
THank you.
Remember, this doesn't 'counteract' the force directly.. it acts on diamagnetic molecules and exerts force on them.
It is not 100% equal to an opposing gravitational force.
What we really need is to be able to create a mass in front of our starship and accellerate that mass, and let the mass pull the starship along via gravitational forces. We would experience no sensation of movement.
OF course. we would also need to be able to create/destroy that mass at will (energy -> mass and vice-versa). I think this is how the aliens do it.
Where the heck are you going to get the 6 megawatts of power needed to run the 20 tesla magnet? And that's just to do a chamber 32mm across!
Actually, Maxwell had NO IDEA about this.
According to maxwell, stable magnetic levitation is not possible.
Maxwell did NOT know about diamagnetic effects.
This is NOT about ferromagnetics at all.. it's about diamagnetics.
Water is diamagnetic ALL BY ITSELF. Water exudes an incredibly tiny, but constant magnetic field.
If an external field is applied, electronis in the water alter path to compensate, causing exactly the field necessary to repel.
This is the exact same effect that is seen in superconducters, you just need vastly more power to see it.
Actuall,y you COULD use this effect to levitate a person.
Considering the frog levitation experiment used
a) a very tiny frog
and
b) 6MW of power.... to create a 20 Tesla field..
how hard do you think it would be to levitate a 150lb human?
No.. because he's not dealing with a magnetic liquid. He's dealing with a diamagnetic liquid.. which is very different.
A friendly guide for reporters and editors on the correct use of our name.
m
Our correct name is Case Western Reserve University.
On second reference, simply use CWRU. It's that simple.
We may also be referred to as Case Western Reserve, or even Case Reserve (especially if you're referring to our sports teams, the Spartans). Our name is a result of the federation of two previously separate institutions -- Case Institute of Technology and Western Reserve University -- more than thirty years ago. So our name is neither Case Western nor Case Western University (that's like "University of North," which is meaningless) nor are we just Case--unless referring only to the Case School of Engineering.
http://www.cwru.edu/pubaff/univcomm/cwruname.ht
Pretty neat and all - kinda got me to thinking...
What if you took some oil - maybe some relatively thick oil (gear oil?) and mixed in some iron filings, or powder.
Would it be possible to set up a system similar to the "floating globe" thing (you know, where this metal sphere "floats" in the air - an electromagnet is controlled via a closed-loop feedback system measuring where the globe is vertically in relation to the electromagnet)?
I know it wouldn't be rigid (being a liquid and such), so that would possible cause problems - but say that could be overcome - would the force needed to keep it suspended be extreme (as in as big as the floating frog experiment)?
Just some crazy thoughts...
I support the EFF - do you?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
The ping pong ball would just shoot right up...not exactly the same thing...
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
In Apollo13, they wer drinking juice (liquid) and it separated when in the Zero G environment of space. Wouldn't the same thing occur?
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
I was thinking the same thing
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Okay I was reading a few comments and it suddenly dawned on me. Could you use 2 magnetic fields of the same density, but of opposite polar strength, be used to rip something apart (or someone as someone mentioned)??
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
You actually tried using a hairdryer to levite a ping pong ball? The flow of air disapates as you move slowly out from the centre of the airflow. Now if the flow was constant at every point then it may be possible, but its not.
The ball will go up and then come back down very quickly.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Well they do mention how this is different from other such exparments in the article:
"While others have done similar work using techniques involving motors or by suspending a liquid within another liquid bath, countering gravity against a magnetic field has a multitude of advantages. He points out that with this technique scientists can study phenomena on incredibly fast time scales, down to milliseconds. Additionally, the magnetic approach allows the liquid or solid to float freely, unencumbered by the physical constraints of mechanically driven motion or the effects of a surrounding liquid bath."
anyone else think of this while they read it?
Just imagine making roads out of magnetic material
And watch my laptop's hard drive get erased on the way to school.
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Immediately I can forsee applications as a new type of mass chromatography column with all components in the liquid phase. What about reversing the net gravitational field such that the more massive analytes elute later, from the top? One could separate proteins, for instance, by carefully varying the fields. What if this type of thing were done with pressure and temperature as a variable? What about introducing an orthogonal ionizing or accelerating electric field? Also don't forget that other paramagnetic liquids such as liquid oxygen might be interesting for this.
i disagree with Mr.Sketch, i think the above should be moderated DOWN for its gross amount of pseudoscience and misinformation.
p hysics44.html . though dont be so quick to assume it is going to solve the worlds energy needs. in the same interview with alan alda for the PBS program 'scientific american frontiers' S.Weinberg states that the total amount of "free energy" in the volme of space the size of the earth would be equal to about the energy in a gallon of gas. i suggest carl sagan's 'the demon haunted world' or michael shermer's 'why people believe weird things'.
Moray B. King starts out his book by telling the reader that earth is being visited by alien spaceships all the time. As if that were not enough to discredit him immediately he goes on in his book to explain how his lifelong goal has been to get people to build so called "free energy machines" (ahem...remind you of anything?? maybe the quest to build perpetual motion machines in the 19th century before thermodynamics came to light?)
no one doubts that so called zero point energy exists. even the promenent physicist steven weinberg agrees with that. it has been proven to exist by the casimir effect http://www.sciam.com/askexpert/physics/physics44/
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
I have an application that could potentially suit this technology, and it sounds easy enough to do at home once you have some magnesium chloride tetrahydrate, but does anyone have the following info:
:-)
1) Is magnesium chloride tetrahydrate dangerous? Poisonous? Carcenogenic?
2) Is it expensive?
3) Is it difficult to get hold of?
4) Is it a major component in some esoteric nerve gas such that my purchase of it would bar me from international travel for life?
The most memorable zero-G liquid I ever saw was when that guy puked in Apollo 13. I'll never forget what barf look like in space (or at least in NASA's "Vomit Comet".
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
Besides being able to demonstrate molasses flowing uphill :) what practical applications come to mind for this?
Off the top of my head, how about a new way to keep your car windshield clear from rain? Have a reservoir of highly-paramagnetic fluid which is continually fed through fine nozzles at the base of the windshield. Imbed microfine horizontal wires in the windshield. Pulse currents through the wires in a sweeping pattern up the windshield. Have a gutter at the top and recover the fluid. Filter out the water (osmotic filter?) and reuse the fluid.
Hmmm, on second thought, migh this result in non-uniform depths of fluid on the windshield causing a fun-house mirror effect? In that case, create this on a smaller scale with a high-powered light shining through it and a computer-controlled sequencer to vary the strength and timing of the fields -- voila! Feed your favorite audio stream into the sequencer and you've got the latest in high-tech lightshow equipment for your next party! ;-)
I'm curious what other /.'ers can come up with.
I would have three major concerns if I were working with very stong magnetic fields.
1) Are the fields in question constant fields. changing fields generate electrical currents when they cross anything that conducts electricity. (like humans, but wire works better)
2) where does the energy go if the field accedentally fails. Power failures, shorting out the power supply outputs, dialectiric failures. Can cause huge power surges.
3) Pregnant people and children. Could mess with growth and develpoment. (vaugely remember something about this somewhere.}
I would guess that a rapidly changing magnetic field could be used as a murder weapon. The medical examiner would be very confused at first. However you might need millons of dollars of equipment that would not be portable. Also the electric company would know the exact time of death from the power consumption charts
One of my Physics profs in college worked on prototype cyclotrons in the 50's. He told us about a power supply failure (something metal got across the power supply outlets IIRC) He did not feel anything, but there was a bang followed by a crash. A picture hung near the coils had the wire that held it up melted. It then fell to the floor. Check your spare change and dental fillings at the door !
This is an abuse of the system, becuase I'm blatantly picking the highest ranked comment and replying to it so this will be seen, but I thought this might be worthwhile enough to risk it. My comment was already posted once, but it's a bit farther down on the rankings.
:)
and IANAP (I am not a Physicist), but I'm an amateur mathematician, and I often read books that are probably full of bad science. So anything I say is suspect. But...
There _is_ a way to mess with gravity. Concentrate enough energy in one spot, and you will bend space (why? Well, there's a mass-energy equivalence, and if you put mass in one spot, you bend space, causing gravity...right?). As everyone knows,
you'd have to get a huge amount of energy, tho'.. so we need a source that's just massive. There's a theoretical entity called the "zero-point" energy that is supposedly available at any point in the universe (from activity of the "quantum foam" that's present even in a vacuum. No, I don't really understand it). The problem is, the energy flows orthogonal to any of the dimensions we live in (at right angles to reality, as Douglas Adams migh say). So, all we have to do is figure out some way to change the angle. Even a small amount of the tapped energy might be enough, causing I bend in space. Put the bend in the right place (say, a safe number of meters above your head), and adjust the magnitude, and you're floating.
Unfortunately, this gravity source will not only affect you -- near as I can tell, many things in the near vicinity would be pulled straight toward you. Hope you don't have any large household appliances. Then again, this could come in handy around people you find attractive.
And in case you're wondering, I got all this stuff from a book called "Tapping the Zero Point Energy" by Moray B. King....
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
Doesn't anyone find it odd that we don't really KNOW how gravity works ?
I'm not really a specialist here, but it was my understanding that we don't actually have a particle to match gravity with. And thus no way to REALLY alter gravity.
This mangetism trick is no more than it is, a trick. It's nice to see, but the gravity is still there. Now if someone would find a REAL way to alter gravity, THAT would be cool.
Until then, space missions it is.
The funny thing is that you can't get away from gravity, where ever you go. You feel the gravitational pull from every object from everywhere in the universe anywhere you are. Astronauts have faked zero-g because they're just falling fast enough.
Anyway, I find it so odd that nothing explains how we can mess with gravity itself. It seems that there are a couple of things in physics that we don't quite understand correctly yet. (well, quantum mechanics ofcourse, but i doubt that will lead us to zero-g)
First, I think you meant a site about levitation at Nijmegen-Amsterdams University's magnet laboratory. This site has both physics and pictures :)
Second, a Levitron, which you can buy for a couple of bucks. The working principle is rather complicated, though.
Third, Nd-Be-F supermagnets should be rather cheap nowadays, so buy and try yourself :)
Andrei
Making something float with magnets has been done before.
With frogs.
I wish I kept the link now, but it wasn't THAT interesting.
Following the link back to the groups offical home page is intersting though. It could be just me, science though interesting experiments is always cool.
Later
Erik Z
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
I applaud any technology that makes it easier to get out of my chair and get my laptop, remote or whatever item I need but forget elsewhere. Yay, Case Western Reserve University!
If the amount of "gravity" applied to the object could be timed to counteract the effects of accelleration of the object, we could have "acceleration without whiplash," something that certainly exists on the starship enterprise. :)
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
"OOOoooo look, 0 G!"