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Mozilla-KDE Integration
zniper writes: "According to this mail on the KDE-KFM-DEVEL mailing-list, Corel revived the Mozilla QT-port and claim to have a port even more stable than the official GTK version. Additionally, they are planning to port Gecko to the KDE2 kparts architecture, allowing it to be embedded into Konqueror and other KDE2 programs. "
...about as much as Mozilla does, as far as I am concerned, but it is always nice to be able to choose!
I mean, how long have they been working on Mozilla?
And when did development of the Konqueror HTML widget start? I am really surprised they could build a good-functioning (speaking as of the final-beta ) web-browser in such a short time!
How did the KDE developers manage this? Or did it just not get the same attention (as Mozilla) and have they been working on it for quite some time before it got into the public?
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
remember - desktop users mostly use Windows. Can they use Konquerer?
Yes, I think they can. Because it's based on QT which is a crossplatform development environment, I guess it would be quite easy to port it (if you really wanted to). Would take some work I guess, but it could be done.
By the way, please don't make the mistake that KDE only runs on Linux, Konqueror also is a platform independent browser (Linux, *BSD, every other platform that compiles QT/KDE, which are quite a lot I guess).
And Mozilla depends on GTK being available just as Konqueror depends on QT being available for a certain platform, so both have (about) the same level of platform independance.
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
The guys at Troll Tech created a mozilla based off QT already. Some of the work involved has been done already. That might help speed up the process You never know
Yes, it's cross-platform (I've seen X11-based Wordperfect on Solaris and AIX, possibly even IRIX at my uni), but the ports themselves *suck*. Even on an Ultra-1, with 256MB of RAM--hardly a slow machine back in 1996, the bloody things *chugged*. No, we were not running CDE, we were running vanilla X11R6 with (I believe) fvwm for the window manager.
Wordperfect 8, on Windows, also was a pain. The installer isn't nearly idiot-proofed for the typical (l)user, and though it's overkill for 99% of the people, the problem I had with Wordperfect is that compared to MS Word, the UI was less intuitive (not saying that MSW has the ultimate UI, mind you, just better than WP8 IMO).
I'm just hoping that Corel Draw would be enough to carry the company through....
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I'm tired of people being tricked into thinking ...)
by the popular press that Corel have only months
left. It's just ridiculous. It has over 1000
employees, and a huge range of top class products.
And they do give a lot to the opensource community. (contributed to Wine, SMB, QT, gecko,
I can't recommend enough Wordperfect Office 2000
for Linux. It's way ahead of anything else on
the platform.
It's nice to see Corel helping out the Mozilla and KDE projects this way. Since Nautilus already uses Gecko and now the possibility for Konqueror to use it, we are one step closer to having a more standards compliant web.
Once Netscape 6/Mozilla reach RTM versions, all that really stands in the way of true standards compliance is WinIE. MacIE is already wonderfully standards compliant by all accounts, and hopefully the WinIE team will follow suit.
I don't think it's important whether this helps unite KDE and GNOME or not.
What's important is that it represents more choice for users and that's always good.
Personally, I don't think there's such a thing as as "good" or "bad" software when it comes to comparing functionality, only "more choice" or "less choice"
Mozilla for KDE in addition to mozilla for GNOME is good news!
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
No you don't. The Mozilla shared libraries can be used by any application, they just need the extra wrapper for the widget set you intend to use. There already is a gtkmozembed. All you need is qtmozembed.
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The world is divided in two categories:
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You don't understand. Gecko is much more featureful than KDE's HTML engine. If you want the quick viewer use KDE's, if you want support for stuff like XML+CSS, MathML, XSL and all the other funky things that the great Moz does, then use Gecko.
--
The world is divided in two categories:
those with a loaded gun and those who dig. You dig.
--
The world is divided in two categories:
those with a loaded gun and those who dig. You dig.
Konqueror was created to replace KFM, and I'm pretty sure they at least used KFM as a reference. It rendered web pages decently, but not much else. Now KDE has Konqueror which boasts everything you'd expect a web browser to do: HTML 4.0, CSS1&2, Java/Javascript, and SSL. What was once a wishlist in May is a reality now.
And I do believe you're right in that the KDE developers have not recieved as much attention. Think about how many news items we have seen about Mozilla or Nautilus in the last few months. When was the last time we heard about Konqueror? I just did a Slashdot search and saw a news item for it dated back in May (its *only* news item).
I think the only reason it has no attention is because it's a KDE app. You generally only hear about the "whole package" of KDE, and nothing about its individual apps. This is unfortunate because Konqueror *really* stands out. The people who normally complain that Mozilla is too bulky should definitely try out Konqueror. It does everything necessary, yet is faster and lighter. I was impressed with the no-hassle SSL. It just utilizes OpenSSL if you have it installed. In fact, this is the first time I've ever been able to get a browser besides Netscape to use SSL.
Embedding Mozilla into Konqueror seems strange at first, since Konqueror does a fine job of it's own. However, wouldn't it be neat to be able to choose a render engine? Imagine a case where the KHTML widget renders a page not quite like you wanted it to. Flip over to Mozilla rendering to give yourself a second shot! =) Hey, there's a first for everything.
-Justin
I think the idea (and I haven't read any of the replies to your post, so sorry if I'm just repeating what they say) is that the user can replace Konqueror with Mozilla if he chooses to.
That is a very good thing. If I use KDE 2 (which I plan to as soon as KOffice hits public beta), and hate Konqueror, or just feel like doing something neat on a rainy Tuesday, switching the internal browser on KDE should be fairly trivial.
And for the record, because you can change the rendering engine if you so desire, integrating the browser with the everything is not nearly as insidious as MSHTML.
As for porting Mozilla to QT, standard widgets are good, and Corel likes KDE. And it sounds like they are stripping down Mozilla for KDE - note that they only took Gecko, not the rest of it.
Is this post not nifty? Sluggy Freelance. Worshi
Have you tried here? I personally found the Introduction to LaTeX2e to be very helpful.
My father-in-law no longer opens his paper to the sports section, but now starts with the obituaries. After confirming htat he's not there, he goes on with his day . . .
:)
Just how many Corel obituaries are we going to get? I just can't keep up; I'd thought that it was corell waiting to be revived, and KDE/mozilla doing well (kozilla?
By tomorrow, perhaps it will be the kde/mozilla project reviving Alan Turning . . .
On an off topic note. What has Linux done that windows hasn't? So far the desktops are somewhat differnet looking, but neither has done anything that is noticably better than Windows. Sure some may say it is more stable, but then so are Solaris and the BSD's. They are almost equal on the game playing field. They are near equal in the application field (although some may argue one way or another that one is better). But what has Linux or UNIX in general done lately that Windows hasn't. (And don't give me that lame security argument as you can secure a windows box [put it behing a UNIX firewall]).
I ask here cause slashdot hates my posts!
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
Can't anybody spot trolls anymore? Any reactionary comment from an Anonymous Coward should just be ignored, especially when it demands or dares moderation.
And what's with "crucifiction"? That spelling was only used by anti-Christians last time I hung out on the newsgroups.
I'm stuck in Windows, don't have much chance to play around with Konqueror.
As far as I remember, Mozilla is supposed to run on both Win32 and Linux, while Konqueror is not even able to make to Win32. So, it's a much more complicated job to also accomodate Win32, right? Do you think it's fair to compare the development time for two products?
Indeed, Gecko has been there for quite a bit of time. Without the UI complications, development of Mozilla isn't going too bad compare to Konqueror.
A sig is redundant.
CorelDraw -- widely recognized as the best vector illustration application available. Beats Illustrator hands-down, both for ease-of-use and sheer functionality. Challenges Adobe Pagemaker in many areas.
Ventura Publisher -- the only professional-level long-document layout/publishing tool available for desktop-class machines. Adobe FrameMaker is a wanna-be, in comparison: it's adequate for smaller publications and independent contractors, but lacks the functionality required by high-end professionals. Quark doesn't even register on the scale.
WordPerfect -- regarded as one of the two best general-purpose wordprocessing applications (MSWord being the other). Has many strengths that Word lacks; has some weaknesses. Does deal moderately well with SGML; it's a viable alternative to XMetal for those that need more versatility than SoftQuad's product; high-end professionals are using ArborText's products.
PhotoPaint -- recognized as being as powerful (in many ways more powerful) than Adobe Photoshop, but generally presents a challenging interface to anyone who has become used to the Photoshop/Paintshop interface. Once you get over the UI hurdle, it's magic.
Paradox -- as powerful as any desktop-class database, and far better than the dog's breakfast that MS Access provides.
Quattro -- as powerful as any desktop-class spreadsheet. Not as many frills and thrills as MS Excel. On the other hand, it doesn't seem to have math errors; Excel has had some primo botches in the past.
In the end, Corel has the world's best desktop-class software. Nothing comes close to Ventura and Draw; and it's neck-and-neck for the other products.
What Corel doesn't seem to have is a marketing plan, the common sense to not release buggy product on every odd release number, and respect.
It's a crying shame.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Of course I appreciate any effort expended in making Free Software more usable--but what on earth is Corel thinking? They are on the brink of disaster, surely they should be working on something that will Make Money Fast.
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I know how they can do that. I had an email about it the other day. All they need to do is send $20 to this bloke, and he'll send them these 'business reports' that they can then sell themselves for as much as they like to loads of people. They can make $$$! Earn $100,000 a month or more!
It's not illegal, either, the bloke said, and it's not one of these pyramid schemes.
PigPog.
Its sad to see that a company that is signifigantly benifiting the opensource community is dying. Obvisiously Corel Draw and Word Perfect have been dying for a while now, but its still sad. Fortunatly, Corels benifits of a better WINE and work on the QT version of Mozilla will continue to live on. Is there any way Corel can auctual become profitable, or should they just continue to suck money out of investors until they die? If they do the OSS comunity will benifit. Hopefully though before they die they release the source code to Wordperfect for DOS so maybe all us Linux/*BSD users out there will finally have a console Word Proccessor without having to learn latex or install dosemu.
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
Trust me, bad software does exist :) The main reason that choice is so important is to enable users to choose *good* software...
They way they can make money is to sell products. The way they can sell products is to draw attention to themselves. The way they can draw attention to temselves is to create talk in the press over projects they are supporting. This is a good thing!
The quickest way for Corel to completely fade away is to stop doing new development. It's kind of like evolution, either you advance or get overrun. A company that terminates all development efforts is usually on it's last leg.
When you consider how much money Corel is burning through, how much is it really costing them to have a couple of programmers dedicated to a project like this? $200-250K/year for a company operating on the level of $20-30M/year is not that big of deal.
World Beach List, my latest project.
Perhaps. But from my experience, KHTML renders quite flawlessly, supports Netscape plugins, Java, etc etc *and* is a _lot_ faster than Gecko.
If you want the quick viewer use KDE's...
That's what 99% of webbrowsing is about. A quick viewer.
But sure, I'd love Gecko support within Konqueror. On the condition that KHTML remains the default engine.
Does it support the DOM?
... well ... the difference between IE/Mozilla and everything else.
The difference between dynamic and static documents is
What I'd like to know is why would Konquerer wish to depart with there current engine and replace it with Gecko. From my understanding, tearing out Konquerer would probably requre the KDE team to rewrite a substantial amount of code to employ Gecko for rendering remote (i.e. FTP) and local file management (e.g. graphic preview and thumbnail) display. This seems to be part of the growing trend by both camps (in emulating Microsoft) to embed HTML engines into filemanagement and the GUI shell. Where is this going towards?
What will the any advantage of porting Mozilla to QT be? Perhaps Corel, who is quite short in cash at the moment, should follow Galeon's lead and attempt to strip down Mozilla for KDE instead.
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Yes, it's like with cars .. you may take the red broken one, the green, broken one or the blue broken one.
Exercise: Spot the problem
This is not a very elegant solution, but it worked for me... Try updating to the latest mozilla nightly build, and then installing Helix Gnome. Galeon is now working very nicely, and is very fast. Still a bit primitive, but not bad.
Since Corel is porting Mozilla to KDE/QT for their own purposes, not as part of the main Mozilla development effort, I don't see how this will delay Mozilla by more than the time it would take the Mozilla crew to say "No, we don't need a QT port, but thanks for asking".
Of course, Corel could have had people help on the main Mozilla effort instead, which could have a positive effect, but let's not forget about the mythical man-month.
That's because Galeon is spelled Galeon.
Is Corel the evil one that we're supposed to slam at every opportunity, or is that Caldera?
It's so hard to keep track of these things...
Make money fast? There is no way to do that with Free Software (now that the OSS IPO boom is over). You can't make money off of support/service until you have a large enough user base (and no one's earned decent profits off of it yet). So you're left with proprietary add-ons of some kind.
I think Corel is going the best course. Slow, steady, and ignore the pundits. Of course, if the Borland shenanigan gets resolved, they have Kylix to generate dough with.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Newworld Macs (iMac and later) usually require a boot partition for Linux, too (to hold the txbi script that OpenFirmware loads to load the yaboot booter on a Linux paritition). Old World (Biege) Macs don't need a bootstrap, there booter, quik, can boot directly off of a Linux partition.
I've done some info on these booters over at iMacLinux Guides and Howtos. Also check out PenguinPPC for more stuff.
Crowd (mumbling): 'Jesus, it's too bad you've got to die!'
Jesus (screaming): 'Well, I wouldn't have to if somebody would get a pair of pliers!'
It's not a question if there are Corel products that are worth having and ... yes ... buying. The question is 'Is it worth it to you?'
So far myself, I've downloaded the freebies and have considered recommending v.2 of Corel Linux for less-tech savy friends and family. I can't justify getting WordPerfect because it uses a closed format, and I don't do that much graphics work so I'm not a customer for Corel Draw. I've only spent a few minutes fiddling around with Photopaint only because I don't do much graphics work.
The only thing stopping me from recommending v.2 Corel Linux is that I know more about RedHat and RedHat derrived distributions then Debian. Not a big hurdle, true, yet if anything goes wrong or needs changing, I'll have to make the changes (via. SSH, of course!).
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.