Slashdot Mirror
Michael Abrash On The Xbox
Jacek Fedorynski writes: "There's an interview with Michael Abrash on Daily Radar. Michael is an ex-id Software programmer now at Microsoft working on the Xbox, which is the subject of the interview." Covers a lot of stuff including NVidia, HDTV, Lens Flares, and how the X-Box might run quake.
I was going to mod you up as interesting, but I thought I'd reply instead :) sorry
A big difference between an XBox and a PC in a game console style molded plastic shell is the software. When writing a game for the XBox you only have to write for one computer, and more importantly, optimize for one computer. XBox games can count on the XBox having a specific chipset, they can undercut DX8 and talk to it direct if they want (actually I don't know if it's worth/possible to undercut DX8, but it might be). Even if everthing must be done through DX8 on an XBox it'll still smoke a PC game running on the same hardware because DX8 will have 101 features bolted onto it to take advantage of the XBox hardware - features that you just can't count on a bog standard PC having, and hense features you can't make integral to your PC game engine.
I think that's the difference, developing games on a PC is a nightmare. The X-Box will give all the benifits of the PC platform while releaving some of the nightmare.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And perhaps I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound to me like they have any of that disgustingly cute/popular Anime shit being developed for their system. They're dead. Only older geeks crave Western games, and last time I counted, there were too few X-Geners to warrent a market in anything.
Despite the fact that I hate the look, feel, and general psychology of their games, the Japanese know how to make them better than anybody on the planet. Their video game production infrastructure is like our Hollywood. It makes ours game industry look small fry; like we make games about rubber monsters trashing Tokyo.
So from their 150 companies, (all rushing to meet a deadline, and most of them inspired primarily by cash rather than an honest burning desire to develop original game ideas,) d'you think we should be prepared for a landslide of more dull FPS's, ET cartridges and bad knock offs of stuff that was cool two years ago?
I think so. But that's just me.
-Fantastic Lad
Corporate money buys the body, but rots the soul.
Interestingly enough, there WAS a company that released "christian" games. It was for the NES, by a company named Wisdom Tree. Among one of the games was "sunday funday". Another used the DOOM engine for 3D Noah's Ark.
They never got popular for some reason. heh.
It doesn't exist yet, and the specs will be outmoded by the time it does.
A friend's father works for a company that was contracted for one of the subsystems. Not all the details were even finalized on that until relatively recently.
Yes, Virginia, that means the screenshots you've been seeing are somewhat "bogus".
Most everything so far with the X-Box has been the usual tactic of "spew vapor until we clear out the marketplace".
Needless to say, I'm not getting one, even if the final design turns out not to suck.
DNA just wants to be free...
In your DREAMs, CAn the presS ever forgeT those other guys...
[
I *might* agree with this idea, except for the fact that x-box isn't solely a Microsoft thing - NVidia and a whole slew of game developers (John Carmack comes to mind) have been giving a whole lot of positive lip service to this gizmo. Have you ever heard of NVidia promoting anything that ended up being vaporware? Sure, they may exaggerate the performance of their upcoming cards from time to time, but they don't spew straight up bs. And why should a game developer post a press release about the fact that they're working on games for a new console? Interviews and .plan updates and such are a much better forum for this. Press releases are generally used to announce new products or services - not as updates to what an individual/ company is currently working on.
Why should we be expecting to see prototypes already anyway? XBox isn't due out until sometime in 2001 (don't recall which quarter), and I saw my first official ps2 pics towards the beginning of 2000, or late 1999 at earliest... Just because it isn't finalized a year before its due out, doesn't mean it won't come to exist.
Sorry if this sounds like a pro-MS rant (I find myself amazed that I'm defending them to any degree over anything), but what theBSOD posted is just as much FUD as the best MS press and marketing goons spew out on a regular basis. XBox isn't a "new innovative OS" or anything like that, its *HARDWARE*, and you have to admit that MS is pretty good about hardware (mice anyone?)... add to this the generally respected names associated with it outside of the redmond campus, and this stops bearing any resemblance to vaporware.
Microsoft claims to have all of these game makers drooling over the XBox to make games, but have ANY of them posted a press release yet confirming what MS is saying? If so, I haven't seen one. If Microsoft is seriously making a gaming console, they should have a working prototype somewhere! Any idiot in a marketing department with one drop of common sense would have had big Bill up on stage with that prototype even if it could only run test patterns with various polygons and texture shading just to show off the sheer speed of the system compared to whatever else is available. They need to get consumers drooling over this thing so much that they're willing to put off buying any other console just to be the first person on their street with an XBox. Right now they're just blowing smoke with numbers and a few pictures that could have easily been drawn in Photoshop for all I know. There is still absolutely NO SOLID PROOF that this thing exists.
This is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, most of the top video game companies are on the record committing to XBox games, and many of their top programmers have made extremely favorable comments about the XBox, especially as regards its power and ease of programmability (in sharp contrast to the PS2). Obviously they all have development kits and have for months. Furthermore, Bill did indeed show off a prototype, on stage, with several extremely impressive real-time demos, several months ago. You may have read about it at Slashdot.
Of course, this prototype and the XDK's don't represent the true power of the XBox, because the most important component, the nVidia's new custom graphics chip, isn't finished yet. But that's a strength of the XBox, not a liability; because the graphics chip will be just a variant of nVidia's two-generations-from-now NV25 core, you can bet that it will not only be done on time (nVidia has never missed a release date) and damned fast.
And in any case, this is some of the most ridiculous, uninformed FUD I've ever heard of; how this managed to get moderated up is beyond me.
I'll probably get blasted by a couple of people because of this, but, I've gotta say this looks like a relatively genuine interview.
Normally, when looking at an MS product, who ever is talking has a very "We can do no wrong" and every feature is a "Must Have". In this case, however, Michael doesn't seem to being doing that. Take a look at a couple of the statements being made:
About statements that nVidia's chips are 3 generations ahead:
MA: I hadn't seen that quote. No, I personally wouldn't say three generations; more like either 1.5 or 2, depending on how you count. Not that it matters; the bottom line is that this is the most powerful chip I could imagine anyone getting into a console in 2001.
And concerning the importance of HDTV:
MA: I think it's exciting but too early. First off, there aren't that many HDTVs. Second, supporting HDTV is a major change: it requires larger video buffers and more rendering time, requires artwork targeted at higher resolution and sharper pixels, and changes gameplay because of the wider field of view. I have a hard time seeing anyone abandoning NTSC for HDTV in the near future, and if you don't abandon NTSC, it's a lot of work to support HDTV as well.
There are more examples in there if you read the article (instead of just making the obligitory and completely overused arguments that MS can't make it, XBox will suck, etc. It's all been said before - contribute something new to the discussion please. Too many people reply, and don't bother to read the article ;-) Yes, he pimps the X-Box. Of course, he works for the company producing it, so he's gonna pimp it! ;-) But all in all, it seems more like a genuine enthusiasim rather than marketingdroid 'tote the company line' type work being done here. To me, it was a good read.
As for the X-Box it's self: Well, I'll be interested in seeing it from a game developer's standpoint. I make only be shipping small POS games at the moment, but, I'm watching the X-Box closely. Not having to worry about an end-user's hardware and software configuration will be a nice change ('specially for anything that tries to really push 3D to the limit.) However, that same thing can be provided by the GAMECUBE, PS2, DreamCast, and even the upcomming Linux based console. Here you get the advantages of easy porting (but MS is actually discuraging that for most content - they want original stuff for the X-Box, instead of just porting over a PC title. Makes sense, but does limit the number of games available at release.)
MS has a chance to be a contender in a new arena now - if they don't screw it up. They rarely manage to get a product right the first time they ship it (some would debate they NEVER get it right! ;-), but I do think this will be a first for them - a product that hits the market stable on the first shot. If they don't, they will have lost alot of cash!
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr - looking for something to read? Check out my three free novels at MidnightRyder.org
---
SomEthing is missinG from this Article... "Microsoft has a tough job ahead of it. If it wants to unseat Sony in the #1 position, and fend off a charging Nintendo, then the Xbox had better do something that the other consoles can't." :)
-----
"Almost isn't good enough - but it's almost good enough."
-Me
I for one am glad to hear that Microsoft has taken my advice in only releasing wholesome Christian games for the "x" box. I will be buying an x box for Bob IV this Christmas, along with the hit games "Bible Blaster" "The Road to Jericho" "Spot the Homosexual" and "Chapter and Verse". Finally there is an electronic game console that we can be proud to accept into our family. Thank you, Microsoft.
Sincerely,
Bob Jones III
Michael's been pimping the X-Box for a while now, as described in this slashdot article from July.
Of course, Michael's a pretty famous programmer, who wrote Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book and Zen of Code Optimization, as well as A great series of articles for Dr. Dobb's. But I hope that slashdot doesn't just post EVERY little thing he says something about the Xbox, since that's apparently his job now.
Just by comparing the PSX vs DC vs PS2
Oh dear. I am -very- familiar with the PowerVR and am both impressed by what it promises and by what it delivers in practice. I've got access to Japanese and European DCs and a Japanese PS2 at work; many people have compared them and most are pleasantly surprised by the DC and underwhelmed by the PS2.
I don't wish to be rude, but you are presumably still reading the marketing figures.
Why mention Voodoo3? IIRC Sega got into a nice legal tangle with 3Dfx sometime in 1997, because they rejected 3Dfx in favour of the PowerVR.
The XBox does not yet exist.
Micro$oft is EVIL! Bill Gates is going to go to jail after the courts break up his company. Linux is AWESOME!! X-BOX sucks because it is made by Micro$oft!! I am waiting for the LINUX game console because it'll only run a few old games but IT'LL RUN LINUX and that's all I need in a game console!! Linus IS COOL! Katz sucks! I hate capitalism because they don't care about Linux users! I hate BSD for no apparent reason! I THINK open source is k3wl and I NEVER get a lockup in Netscape because I read the source and fixed ALL the bugs!
That about cover it?
GenChalupa
Microsoft claims to have all of these game makers drooling over the XBox to make games, but have ANY of them posted a press release yet confirming what MS is saying? If so, I haven't seen one. If Microsoft is seriously making a gaming console, they should have a working prototype somewhere! Any idiot in a marketing department with one drop of common sense would have had big Bill up on stage with that prototype even if it could only run test patterns with various polygons and texture shading just to show off the sheer speed of the system compared to whatever else is available. They need to get consumers drooling over this thing so much that they're willing to put off buying any other console just to be the first person on their street with an XBox. Right now they're just blowing smoke with numbers and a few pictures that could have easily been drawn in Photoshop for all I know. There is still absolutely NO SOLID PROOF that this thing exists.
He also made a few trumped up statements that make me feel he was reading a PR script. Yes, writing games on an old 4.74MHz PC requires knowledge down to the silicon. Writing games on a console platform requires knowledge down to the silicon. But this, this is just a Pentium. It's all been done before. Not to mention that it's Microsoft's silly DX8 that will be delivering the poly's and nVidia's drivers will be connecting it to the video chipset.
Abrash is a figure head. A Microsoft publicity stunt. Sorry Bill, you're not going to win the geeks to your side with the purchase of one of the most respected.
Because M$ is essentially only competing with itself; that's the essence of monopoly.
And the massive programming talent (the largest computer science department of any institution in the world, right now) is hired to make sure it stays that way: that brainpower doesn't need to make anything for M$, as long as it is tied up not making anything for anybody else.
--Seen
"I used to be a dilettante. Then I thought I'd try something else for a while."
I'm not sure this is as much a problem as you believe. I don't doubt that Microsoft has retained the services of some of the more competent consulting firms that specialise in consumer goods and manufacturing, and I also don't doubt that they are making very generous offers to vice presidents of the current competitive leaders. It's certainly not unheard of for large organizations to simply buy experience they lack when entering a new market.
d'you think we should be prepared for a landslide of more dull FPS's, ET cartridges and bad knock offs of stuff that was cool two years ago?
I expect that XBox games will be very closely aligned with whatever the current trends are.
Well, I don't know about the original poster, but I'll give you some examples of how Microsoft is using its desktop OS/Applications monopoly to help with the X-Box.
1) DirectX is a direct result of Microsoft's monopoly power, and it is held as one of the key features for the X-Box. Without its monopoly, it would not be able to leverage it the way it's being leveraged now.
2) Through its monopoly, Microsoft has managed to bring many companies to their knees. There's no way to know what might have happened had some of those companies been around to compete. So, even though we can't be sure, I'll say that Microsoft wouldn't have been as successful with those other companies around. It probably wouldn't have been successful enough to throw billions of dollars into a project to which they have almost no experience(ie: hardware manufacturing).
3) DirectX8 will most definetly be X-Box-centric. You can bet it'll support everything the X-Box graphics chipset does. There has already been industry rumbling about how(as opposed to in the past) Microsoft isn't listening to ATI, Matrox, 3Dfx about features they'd like included in the next version of DirectX. If ATI, Matrox, and 3Dfx start going down(not that a few of those arn't already close), you know people will be buying the X-Box for games, 'cause the PC ain't good enough no more(no competition in the graphics card market is a bad thing; look at where 3Dfx is now).
Just a few thoughts.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Basically all the xbox is is a stock pentium3-733 with an overclocked nVidia graphics chipset (that will probably be released either right before or right after xbox is) running a Win2K microkernel in ROM (with other portions left for developers to link in and distributed on their games). Yes, DX8 will only be a thin layer of obfuscation between the metal and the programmer. So what.
We recently had an xbox presentation at CWRU. The point made over and over was, "It's only a console. It's only a console" implying that Microsoft has no intention of making it do anything else (even though it will come with an Ethernet port). Why not? Probably becuase they don't like the idea of selling a cheap set-top computer for only a few hundred bucks. I'm predicting someone will have it running Linux in a matter of a week (all you'll have to do is reburn the boot ROM and off you go. Hell, I've done that exact same project already in one of my undergraduate classes).
We'll wait and see, but in Fall 2001, when this thing is slated to release, Microsoft will yet again drop the ball big time.
Have you ever heard the expression "voting with your feet" (or money)? I really don't feel like financially supporting Microsoft.
It's one thing when a company does some crappy things and some nice things -- as long as it's not too bad, you just patronize them where they do good.
However, for a company that creates daily pain for me at work whether or not I buy their game cosnole -- obscene licensing agreements, insane APIs, unstable implementations and a penchant for thwarting all my attempts at constructing interoperability solutions (except occasionally on their terms) -- there's just not enough incentive there for me.
DNA just wants to be free...
On the one hand, interesting game designs seem to have stalled for the next generation hardware. The PS2 launch titles in Japan were unexciting, generally being fancier fighters and fancier racers. It's not at all clear that more power or more polygons is going to help this.
On the other hand, there have been some pretty creative games coming out for existing systems, like Seaman, Jet Grind Radio, and Crazy Taxi (I don't own a Dreamcast, so don't label me as a Sega fanatic). As such, the tech talk from Microsoft is out of place. Fill rate and polys per second are cold measurements. I'm interested in good game design.
XBox is *not* simply a PC in a little box. One of the biggest differences is the unified memory. There's a whole world of tricks you can do if you can muck about with textures on the fly, something which normally involves a big hit on PCs.
The other point to remember is that PC game creators cannot tailor their games to a single platform in the way you can with a console. This *does* make a huge difference. I write games for a PC, and I'm still trying to ensure that it'll run on a P233 with a ATI Rage Pro, as well as the 800Mhz machine with a GeForce 2. Sure, you can try and make it as scalable as you can, but you'll never be able to go for the same quality as you can on a fixed platform.
As for your labelling as DX8 as 'silly' - where have you been? DirectX has been getting steadily better for ages.
BART: Did I get him?
TODD: No, you only winged him and turned him into a Unitarian!
--
--
The New World Order is upon us, and it's about damned time.
I think you're Astroturf :) in any case, why say anything bad about a 'product' that's not likely to ever exist? Every X-Box sale made could be seen as a Windows sale lost. Particularly if MS has success in its antitrust battles, it will abandon X-Box (you're not going to claim they _can't_ _afford_ to scrap all that research? MS 'can't afford'?) which will have served its purpose- keeping PC game development from spreading out to consoles too much.
Of course, it's a good question whether decent PC game development is even feasible anymore, so why say bad things? woo xbox 'yay'. Bit of a moot point isn't it? Let it preside over a decaying empire- if it even ships- hell, let it be a puppet symbol of the strength of the industry, whatEVER.
Interesting stuff and genuine innovation will just have to go on, rough-edged and ill-funded, outside of the commercial sector. What else is new?