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Work Options In The U.S. When Student Visas Expire?
Ellen Spertus asks: "I'm a computer science professor and am unsure how to advise my students who are on student visas about how to work toward getting a H1B visa or other means of being able to work in the U.S after graduating. Any advice?" What advice do you all have for foreigners looking to work in the U.S.? What would be the best way for them to go about getting a green card, especially if any possible corporate sponsorship is in doubt?
Of course it's an economic motive!
The question I have is: I think that thinking is totally unfair (and as unfair as the pejorative labels of "racist"). Moreover, I think that people who want to stay in the US should (as in morally should) want to be here because America is a great place to live, and offers democracy, constitutionally guaranteed freedoms, a honest judiciary in addition to economic opportunities. In short -- I want them to WANT to become Americans.
In short, I'm personally in favor of immigrants from ANYWHERE that want to come to America and BE AMERICANS -- this is what America is about.
For a whole laundry list of reasons, most of them economic, a lot of recent non-western immigrants have come to America not to be Americans but to be whatever culture they are in America -- not speaking English and not participating in the established culutural milieu. I think this is the wrong way around, and goes against the grain of the immigrants that have been successful AND accepted.
What's made immigrants successful long-term has been their willingness to be Americans, socially and culturally, not just their desire to make a fast buck.
(Numbers may be approximate as a result of memory errors) Last year Congress authorized the immigration department to pass out 90,000 green cards. They were only able to process the paperwork for 60,000. Over 30,000 qualified applicants did not receive green cards. Holding an H1B visa is no guarantee; there's a good chance that after your six years are up, you'll be shipped home. Of course, you could always stay illegally; the worst thing they'll do is deport you, after imprisoning you without trial or counsel for an indefinite period of time. The immigration system is kinda broken right now...
Of course, this doesn't begin to address the question of whether or not companies should be permitted to import workers. Companies which claim that they need more or better qualified workers should detach themselves from the governmental teats long enough to develop better recruitment, retention, and training programs. Any corporation could have as many trained workers as they liked within two years if they were willing to pay for it. If they don't want to, why should we permit them the post-modern counterpart to slave labor - "Don't want to work 100 hour weeks for $30K/yr? Well, we'll just cancel our sponsorship of your visa and you can go home and live in squalor!"
Honestly, I really don't like the idea of someone coming over here on a student visa, and then wanting to stay after graduation. If I'm not mistaken, the whole purpose of the student visa was give foreign students who couldn't attend college in their home country a place to learn. This equips them to return to their home, and build a better life, community, state, nation.
But wow,... the idea that these students, who were so fortunate to be given a chance to better themselves,... to become the leaders of their home nations, suddenly want to stay. Is there an ulterior motive here? Perhaps an economic one?
Look people, Student Visas are part of a foreign affairs agenda which believes that by helping other countries become better, that we become a better global society. I fully support this, and have no problem with that.
BUT, H1B visas are only to provide temporary labor, when such a demand cannot be provided by citizens. Honestly, I think the system has been twisted into letting corporations obtain (for lack of better words) slave labor.
So for a person on a student visa to suddenly want to continue working in the United States is completely undermining the purpose of their original stay.
Look people, Student Visas are part of a foreign affairs agenda which believes that by helping other countries become better, that we become a better global society. I fully support this, and have no problem with that.
You seem to be very naive. The whole purpose of bringing bright students from other countries to US is to get them educated and ready to support US economy. They come here, they learn, maybe do some research (grad students), and then they become productive members of US society. Reason they do it? US can't educate enough people in lower levels of education, send them to their colleges and fill those high-tech jobs. I know, 'cause at my school in my departament every other student is from outside US. My two roommates are from outside, and two out of three of my office mates are from outside. So am I.
US doesn't care about other countries, if it doesn't benefit US.
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UBU
- Make sure that all students have done an internship with local or regional employers. This gives them a chance to get a sponsoring employer when it is time for green cards/H1B visas.
- Have a counselor experienced in INS hoorah. Other
/. topics have explored the inequities of the system. Other posts have done a good job of trolling about racism and isolationism.
There is no good way to get a work permit in the US without a sponsoring employer. See the rules on H-1B visas and stuff on becoming a lawful resident.The major difficulty is that green cards are granted by country. Once your country has used up its number of green cards - you're up a creek. The other major difficulty is that immigration is usually by family status, rather than by educational status or training..
Again, if you want students to have a sponsoring employer after graduation, you must work on outside employment issues at all times after the second term of school.
The above says a lot about your own mentality/motives, btw.
The thing is, I would bet that you never have experienced what it is like to be poor. And you are led to believe, by the media primarily, that everyone's aspiration is to become rich. And you think that poor people would be especially striving to prosper.
Not nesessarily true. There are many societies who are not very much "richer" than the primitive people of stone age. I come from one. However, none of them envy the rich america. In fact, most of them scorn it for its greediness. Only if they get exposed to the corruptive influence of mass media (invariably sponsored by big bucks) do they start mistakenly thinking they need more in terms of "wealth".
Also, being an American you probably haven't experienced what it is like to NOT be free, have a police regime in your country and/or be politically and/or phisically opressed. From my own experience and observations of my fellow-immigrants to this country, the ones who are most happy here are the ones who came here in search of freedom, and found it. The most unhappy ones are invariably those who came here to materially better their lives, which was not hard to do once you are in the states. Compared to their "middle-class" income in their native country, flipping burgers at mcdonalds provided them with everything they didn't have back home. But once that was achieved, they didn't have anything else to strive for.
I suggest you get to know a couple recent immigrants and talk with them about their life. You will be surprised...
Eligibility Requirements
The problems with it were that ISSO takes 3 months or more to process the forms, and you really need to submit 3-4 months in advance of graduation. And then there were potential problems leaving the country in between. Since I was Canadian, I looked into getting a TN (NAFTA) visa. Much simpler. You just need a letter offering employment, $56, proof of education, and a profession on the approved list. It took fifteen minutes to get the visa, but make sure your appointment letter says the exact same job title as the jobs list (e.g. Computer Systems Analyst, Engineer, Mathematician, Scientific technician/technologist, Technical publications writer, Astronomer, Biochemist, Biologist, Geneticist, Physicist). The disadvantages to the TN visa
I work for a global IT consulting company (hint: recently split from an accounting firm) from an offshore office somewhere in Asia. I've had the experience of working in the US (for two years) for the same firm and can offer the following insights, some of which may contradict what flatpack has stated:
1. On the overtime work/pay situation, the rest of the world is "catching up" with the US in terms of the the amount of overtime and absence of overtime pay. My firm recently standardized the overtime policy to keep in line with the American situation...most of Asia stopped paying overtime pay for IT people about two years ago, and Europe is not far behind. I think this trend is true for most "multi-national" IT firms, and most startups follow the same model. So, between working for a third-world salary vs. what-would-have-gotten-in-the-US, I think I'd pick the US option.
2. About the lack of humanity...I've found that American managers (at least in my firm) are more "human" than my home country managers. They bother to check if you have a personal life (which most Asian managers don't care about or won't even ask about due to cultural blocks). What I find really nice is the "Work hard, play hard" policy that most Americans adhere to...In Asia, the ability to balance one's personal life and work is lopsided towards work...probably due to cultural and economic factors.
3. Admittedly, it is hard to secure an H1B visa. Does it mean that the policy is racist or short-sighted? Might...but in this case, the benefit of the doubt should be cast. I come from a country where graft and corruption are part of official govt. procedures and redtape is used to print our money. Hate to sound desperate or un-nationalistic...but I'd probably jump-ship the first chance I get (which some of you probably wanted to hear...but that would be OT).
From someone who works w/ the INS on a regular basis:
1) Start early: Many applications don't go through due to procrastination on the part of the applicant. Many of these processes take months or even years. And don't wait for your current residency to expire before looking for the next one.
2) Check your work: There are tons of hoops you have to jump through and they are not well marked. The INS won't always helpfully remind you when you have a problem. Only warning here is not to pester the INS too much-- that could delay your answer.
3) Get assistance: Some lawyers specialize in immigration issues. Talk to one-- she'll be able to give you advice which is tailored to your particular case. Or talk to your congressional office-- they have people who know the rules and can explain them to you. Your company can also help-- IF you plan on staying there long enough for them to benefit.
Americans need to realize that immigrants not only work harder than natives (have you ever met a Hispanic migrant farm worker who works less than 13 hours a day?), but contribute more to society. These people come to the US because they believe they can find something better. They are willing to work for the privelege of the American Dream (TM). Perhaps instead of berating the former engineer from Kenya, you should thank him for being willing to mop your floor, despite the fact he is better trained and more intelligent than you.
Flipside is that rampant immigration can cause problems. California is definately a case for this. Southern Texas has PO box towns where Mexicans receive their Soc Sec checks before returning south of the border. But, in general, these are rare and isolated cases.
Unless your ancestors came to the U.S. as slaves or transported criminals, they too came here with an ulterior motive, seeking a better life for themselves and their descendants. You are the beneficiary of this, and you might want to consider how it looks for you to want to deny others the opportunities that your ancestors had.
Give us your poor and huddled masses, yearning to breathe free...
Let's face it, the Government in it's "heroic" efforts to keep control of the fast-changing employment situation here in the US is not making it easy for foreign people to work here - even if you get an H1B you end up stuck in the same job for your entire period and then get kicked out the country like an illegal immegrant. Hardly an inspiring direction to take your life in.
And then there's the amazing lack of humanity in the majority of America's employers. What other country in the world lets it's citizens work 90 hour weeks without a single hour of overtime? Oh yeah, that's right, the whole reason for H1Bs is to get foreigners here to do those 90 hour weeks, and they don't even have to give you the same rights as nationals (not that America provides many for them either).
America's entire policy on foreigners working there is both rascist and short-sighted. For a country built from immegrants and minimal government, recent political viewpoints seem to be tending towards a xenophobic attitude in which only America counts, and if you're not an American, you can only come here if you're willing to live like a second class citizen.
Try another country - there are IT opportunities across the world, and in most places you won't get nearly as much shit as you'll be put through by the US government.