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Work Options In The U.S. When Student Visas Expire?
Ellen Spertus asks: "I'm a computer science professor and am unsure how to advise my students who are on student visas about how to work toward getting a H1B visa or other means of being able to work in the U.S after graduating. Any advice?" What advice do you all have for foreigners looking to work in the U.S.? What would be the best way for them to go about getting a green card, especially if any possible corporate sponsorship is in doubt?
Try this: http://canada-ny.org/immigration/html/index.htm It took me only 11 months to get the Canadian permanent residence papers in NYC while I was a grad student in the US (I now live in Montreal). And these are merit-based, regardless of the country of origin or race. Besides, you don't need lawyers at all ! Your immigration will be much easier and with more dignity than in the USA. And life here is just better. There are two ways: via Quebec and via the federal program. The former is twice as fast.
A list of TN-eligible jobs (the list includes management consultant, technical writer, computer systems analyst...) is available at http://www.grasmick.com/nafta.htm. This guy's site has much useful immigration info, including a page devoted to IT professionals, but is mostly geared towards Canadians wanting to work in the US.
Who the fuck told you that people on H1B don't pay taxes ? In fact they are made to pay taxes and for the social security of you good for nothing 'REAL RED BLOODED' Joe-sick-packs, and we don't ever get a chance to get anything back in return for the taxes we pay. Your comments really proves that what this country needs is education, not that one gets by reading the books, but a real one. What I and my wife paid in taxes is almost twice what an average American makes (we paid almost 60K in taxes last year). OK, America gives me a chance to have a good life and make all that money, I'm grateful for that. But, it is not entirely one sided, I give much more than what I take. The job that I do generates more employment for ordinary semi-skilled Americans and I help make US strong and powerful nation that it is. US got my expertise for free, they did not pay for my education or training, and the infrastructure required to setup the educational institutions. You guys should stop whining and be grateful that we are here ( and save your butts from Japanese, Koreans, Europian companies). The early settlers in this great nation earned the previlege of being called an American due the hardwork and a passion for building a new, strong, and free country. I deserve that right by the same token, but the INS and the buch of ignorant fools like yourself would not let me have that. It only makes my resolve to be American much stronger. It is just a matter of time that I get my citizenship and get to have a say. -- an aspiring american
I worked with a guy still using his visa from his Masters degree. He didn't ask our employer about changing his status in sufficient time. His H1 petition started after the INS had reached their annual cap. My friend had to sit out of work for a month or two whilst he waited for the H1 petition to process. He was lucky: his wife was already on an H1; he didn't have to leave and wait out the H1 process in his home country.
The easiest way to get a green card is to marry a US citizen. This is well known, even cliche. What is not well known is that processing a change of status to permanent resident while living in the US takes an obscene amount of time. My wife is a Chilean citizen, and she has been waiting over 2 1/2 years for a green card interview, with no end in sight. During that time she can work, but not leave the US even to visit a sick relative.
As far as I can tell this is due to the fact that the INS deals mostly with non-citizens so no one with voting power cares about the efficiency of service. One would think that efficiently processing those who can stay and efficiently deporting those who can not would benefit both sides, but this is not the way things work. The INS is by far the most inefficient government agency in the US.
If however, you marry a US citizen outside the US, the initial stages are handled through the US State Department and the process can be quite swift. ~6 mo rather than ~3 years.
--
"L'IT c'est moi!"
I saw nothing in that post that warrants the "racist" label. He was simply making the point that if people want to enjoy the benefits of living in this country, then they should be expected to accept the downside as well. Take the good with the bad.
You don't have to agree with it, but it's certainly a point of view worthy of discussion.
And not at all racist.
First of all, you can change jobs provided you can persuade your new company to get you an H1B.
Yes, and then you only have to wait 3 or 4 months... if you're lucky.
Second, most people I know who work on H1Bs have an understanding with the company that after a couple of years, the company will sponsor that person for a green card.
Anyone with an H1B who wants to get a greencard better start the application process earlier than "after a couple of years". The greencard process typically takes 4-5 years. H1Bs only last 3 years, and you can only get one renewal, hence you've only got 6 years.
But of course most companies are more than happy to sponsor a greencard, because your application will be cancelled if you leave the company. Given the time constraints, you can't very easily apply for a greencard at another company, so you're pretty much stuck.
There are plenty of places where you work 9-to-5 (e.g. most government jobs, by the way).
I'm fairly certain that non-US citizens can't get jobs in the US government.
You are making a bargain: your time for money. If you don't like the terms, do not agree to the bargain.
I think his complaint had to do with the fact that H1B workers typically work longer hours for equal or even lower pay than American workers. Of course, any thinking American would be angry about this as well. After all, if companies can get immigrants to work harder for less money than Americans, there's a pretty strong incentive for these companies to hire immgrants rather than Americans, isn't there?
Looking out for your own interests, wouldn't it be better if there weren't any artificial advantages to hiring non-American workers? In particular, shouldn't American companies be forced to pay them the same wages, and shouldn't they (the foreign workers) be able to change jobs as easily as Americans? If this isn't the case (and it isn't), you end up with American companies preferring foreigners, because they're cheaper, do more work, and they're effectively "locked in" for the term of their visa. It's no wonder that high-tech companies would rather hire foreigners than Americans who only work 40 hours/week, demand raises, and leave if they don't get what they want...
If H1B workers and greencard applicants could switch jobs anywhere near as easily as American workers, I guarantee that the H1B quotas wouldn't even be reached the following year. High tech companies would start hiring Americans first, and only hiring H1B workers when they needed to. Is't that the way it should be?
Well, generally speaking, if you are not an American you cannot come live here at all. That is normal and it is as it should be. If you don't think so, try thinking through the consequences of allowing completely open immigration.
I'm not sure how you define "completely open". I certainly think immigration in the US coul be a lot more open than it is, and be better for Americans and "aliens" alike.
Besides, what have you done that makes you deserve special treatment? You were born here? Who cares? You are aware that alien workers (the INS term) pay taxes and social security, right?
Besides, isn't it strange: if US sucks so much, why so many people are willing to spend great effort and accept huge risks for a chance of living here?
Don't worry, the INS's policies are making the environment hostile enough that soon all of the high-tech companies will leave, or just hire people to do development overseas. Won't that be great for the American economy...
Maybe the 'War on Drugs' should start attacking rogue government departments?
... and today's pet project has
Come on !!! Do you really think student visas are there to help students from foreign countries have a better (=American???) education? Let me clarify a few things for you, and show you why your assertion makes very little sense:
First thing, the price of higher education in the US. For the price of any US degree, any foreign student could probably afford 10 such degrees in a foreign country, so your poor foreign student better be wealthy if he wants to finance his US studies on his own.
Quality then? Well, having done my undergrad studies in Europe, and being a grad student/teacher in the US, I have had the opportunity to compare the quality of the education of my (foreign) collegues with the one offered to my (american) students. The difference is striking. Because most US universities are run like businesses, they almost guarantee a degree to anyone doing a minimum of work, which means almost no selection in the courses, and a very low level. I think it is also commomly accepted that high school education in the US is of very low level compared to many other countries, and that might be a factor as well.
Anyway, so, according to my observations, and people I have met, I would say that the best undergraduate education (for sciences at least) comes from India and Europe (Eastern and Western).
So why would the US want to give out student visas? According to me, to keep the level of their schools up. Americans don't want to go to Graduate School, so it is not unusual to see graduate departments be filled with foreign students. Just look at how many of your science TAs are americans, that will give you a hint. Simply said, graduate students are very low paid high quality teachers, and when selected carefully, increase the quality of the research at the school.
And why would I come study in the US if the quality of education is so much better in my home country? Well, I said UNDERGRADUATE education. Graduate education in the US is of very good quality, because US universities have a lot more money to put into it, and the best students from all over the world come to the US to get a graduate degree.
And after you've been living here for 4 years, working on some degree, isn't it normal you might consider staying?
-- Slef
The USA is a much bigger place. Also a lot of Americans take jobs in foreign countries so the flux is always going on. Open borders make it easier for foreigners to live here and us to live there. Ever been to the midwest? There is plenty of space. I think we should let anyone that isn't a criminal and doesn't have a serious transmitable disease (except for medical care) into this country. Sure we may have to bite the bullet for one generation (worst case) but if our schools are decent then their children will grow up and contribute new ideas and new culture into our country and keep it fresh and alive. Making one person better than another based on where they were born is no better than by gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Watching the third party debates on tv the other day and then clips from Bore and Gush.. err Gore and Bush.. I think I've decided at least I won't vote for any Democrat or Republican.
If you really want to get rid of stupid government programs then vote Libertarian. They sound like they want to just Nix everything off the list. It's a good plan for getting oneself killed as a newly elected President but other than that it'd get rid of such programs as the NSA and woo even the INS. If there is no INS then it's way to hard to keep people out of our country so you have pretty much open borders.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I hope you are joking, i didn't believe that there actually where americans still thinking usa is "the best country in the world"...
;)
/Daniel
yep, i've probably managed get a couple of grammatical errors in there, but you'll probably understand anyway...
Of course you have advantages to most countries in some ways, mostly because of the massive ammount of money in circulation, but i would definitely not say that "the whole purpose of the student visa was give foreign students who couldn't attend college in their home country a place to learn", most of the swedes I know who go to college in the us does it as a complement to their swedish education, mostly to get better at english and to be enabled to put international experience on their resumés. The us should definitely look over their immigration rules, a lot of people over here can't get a green card and go over there to work, this could damage the future development of as there _is_ good talent in other countries than the us (just look at linux, nokia, ericsson, mercedes benz, bmw, volvo etc. all european companies/products (ok, some of them bought, but you see what i'm pointing at...)
btw, you should keep in mind that the largest reason us colleges accept foreign students is that they want them to stay and work in the us. This isn't some kind of charity, it would be stupid to educate people and then send them away. One of swedens largest problems with foreign students is that they come here, take their education and then leave the country to work elsewhere - you can't get any work or money out of them that way - can you ?
I am paid the same as the locals
I'm glad you've had a positive experience. However, anecdotal evidence, while not false, does not refute the general case. This is similar to an 103-year-old man who says he's smoked a pack of cigarettes and drunk a quart of whiskey every day since he was 16 - it ignores the lung cancer and licer disease that affects most people who engage in similar behavior.
doing the same tech support jobs for Tandem
Nothing personal, but do you really think your company needed to go outside the US to find workers who were qualified? Do you think it's possible that they could have retained the workers they had that have left? Do you think they could have recruited more people? Do you think they could have trained high school graduates to do the same work? I do; I worked in tech support for three years, and unless you're doing some REALLY high speed stuff, it can be done quickly and easily by anyone with a brain.
Yes I have. In fact, I married one. And am quite happy AND quite satisfied. . .
And as for IT ratios, the company I'm employed by is all-IT, and about 45% female. The "range" goes from OK to model-quality.
So much for both your stereotypes and your attitude.
Now, let's look at the MALES in IT, some of us are a pretty sorry lot. . . .
even if you get an H1B you end up stuck in the same job for your entire period and then get kicked out the country like an illegal immegrant.
Bullshit. First of all, you can change jobs provided you can persuade your new company to get you an H1B. Second, most people I know who work on H1Bs have an understanding with the company that after a couple of years, the company will sponsor that person for a green card. Yes, that works, I know a few people that did exactly this thing and they are now green card holders (or already citizens).
What other country in the world lets it's citizens work 90 hour weeks without a single hour of overtime?
Oh, spare me this crap. First of all, what do you mean "allows"? Do you want laws prohibiting your from working more than X hours per week? Second, there is a standard solution: Don't do it, then! If you don't like 90-hour-a-week jobs, don't work there. There are plenty of places where you work 9-to-5 (e.g. most government jobs, by the way). Oh, you say, but I like the pay and the options! Well, then, don't complain. You are making a bargain: your time for money. If you don't like the terms, do not agree to the bargain.
the whole reason for H1Bs is to get foreigners here to do those 90 hour weeks
So would you rather shut down this program altogether?
if you're not an American, you can only come here if you're willing to live like a second class citizen.
Well, generally speaking, if you are not an American you cannot come live here at all. That is normal and it is as it should be. If you don't think so, try thinking through the consequences of allowing completely open immigration.
Besides, isn't it strange: if US sucks so much, why so many people are willing to spend great effort and accept huge risks for a chance of living here?
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
First of all, there are two different kinds of student visas -- the "F" ones and the "J" ones. The difference is that after an F visa you can go straight into an H1B program, or win a green card in a lottery, or get married to a US citizen, etc. However after a J visa you have to spend at least two years outside the US in order to become eligible for H1B/lottery/etc. Thus, it's considerably harder to stay in the US if you have a J visa (but not impossible, I know people who did it).
Second, to stay in the US you can: (1) apply for political asylum; (2) win a green card lottery; (3) get a work visa. All methods work (obviously, not for everybody and not all the time).
Generally, to get a work visa you need to find an employer who wants you so much that he is willing to jump through INS hoops to get you. Jumping through these hoops in not particularly hard, but it's a hassle. It's common for the company to agree to sponsor you for a green card one-two years down the road. I wouldn't go work for a company which would refuse to do this. It's not a legal obligation, but there is understanding that if they don't do this you'll leave.
In any case, staying in the US after a student visa is hard but definitely possible.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
Tell the students to be upfront when applying to a company. Ask what the company's policy is on hiring and sponsoring foreigners. If the company doesn't do that sort of thing (my current customer site won't touch foreigners), then move on.
There's lots of companies out there wanting talent, and your students have it. I know one student from Caclutta who had no problems getting hired by a large corporation. He finishes his degree in the spring and will start immediately after that, but the company has already flown him out twice for interviews and orientation. They're sponsoring him, and providing legal assistance.
Imagine if Einstein had remained in Germany and was forced to work on the Atomic bomb under Nazi rule...
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Most important: find a foreigner-friendly company. If a company has the processes in place to support foreign workers, your life will be much easier. This usually means that they won't mind hiring you in the training period of the F-1, that they will offer to file the H-1B and later do the Labor Certification for a Green Card. CAVEAT: a *lot* of the foreigner-friendly companies out there are H-1B slave-shops that will dangle the LCA and the Green Card in front of you for as long as they can while they'll pay you a 1/2-1/3 of the average in your position. Be especially careful when they are located in places without a kick-ass job market...
There are ways around the H-1B and the LCA: multinational companies can hire you out of a European, say, subsidiary and bring you back in the country with an L-1 or even a visitor's visa. Some off-shore contracting firms can bring you to work in the US while paying you in the home country. In this case you are not stuck in the LCA process (which can be brutal, long (2-3 yrs) and during which you really can't leave your employer unless you start all over again) but you will be stuck with the lower salary anyway, and you are not gonna get that Green Card...
If you qualify (i.e. you are not from one of the high-immigration countries, namely India, China, etc), do the Visa Lottery. The odds are pretty good for Europeans in particular (that's how I got out of the H-1B hole) and the process will take much less time and money than the LCA (2 years max).
In any case, good luck!
If I'm not mistaken, the whole purpose of the student visa was give foreign students who couldn't attend college in their home country a place to learn. This equips them to return to their home, and build a better life, community, state, nation.
You are, indeed, mistaken. People who didn't have a chance to attend college in their home country comprise a tiny minority of student visa holders.
Undergraduate school requires that the students pay tuition. How many illiterate peasants from the middle of the jungle can afford to pay tuition in United States, plus travel expenses, etc?
Grad school, of course, requires prior undergrad education.
Far from being a form of charity, as you are trying to present it, it's a matter of - guess what? economics: supply and demand, in this case, for people and their brain power.
hmm.. I think the Gumus case shows something. This turkish guy has run a business for years with his family (I think a laundry). He was what was called a 'white illegal', meaning yes, he was an illegal immigrant but faithfully paid taxes etc... There was a lot of ruckus when he was going to get kicked out the country. the majority of dutch people thought he and his family should be allowed to stay. The case went all the way to government, where it was decided that no exception would be made. This naturally made quite a lot of people angry. I think he now works for a travel-organization in Turkey, welcoming dutch tourists.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Shoot all the natives whilst gradually moving westwards. It worked last time didn't it?
:wq
I believe that you are allowed to work for up to one year after your schooling is finished. Your University student services should have more information on that. To be honest, many, many, many friends of mine that came to this country to study had a difficult time staying. To a man/woman everyone that is still here today is married to a US citizen.
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
How StarShip Troopers-ish (the novel more than the movie, which so many people mis-understood). Civilians live and work, Citizens (vets) get to vote, hold office, etc etc, on the grounds that they've fought for what they would now help rule.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
For someone not trying to be racist or a troll, you're doing a pretty good job. Imagine what you could accomplish if you really tried.
Sarcasm aside, the only way to become a citizen (other than by birth or marriage) is to first reside in the U.S. For students seeking a legal way to do so, who are you to deny them? Consider that if people with your viewpoint had prevailed in the past, in all probability the U.S. would not be "your" country.
When your relatives came over from Italy at the turn of the century, it is a virtual certainty that they settled in a neighborhood full of Italian immigrants, and that their day-to-day interactions with their neighbors and merchants were carried out in Italian. It was almost always the kids who learned English--many older immigrants never did fully master the language.
Your electricity provider has enough customers who speak other languages that it's worth their while to go to all the trouble of programming and recording all their telephone scripts in multiple languages. Get over it.
Personally, what annoys me no end is people who would make others lives more difficult (or even dangerous) just so they can avoid having to punch an extra button on the phone.
They could always marry someone from the marketing department.
Hey now, we don't have to go all crazy here. Nobody's THAT desperate for citizenship...
--
make sure your appointment letter says the exact same job title as the jobs list (e.g. Computer Systems Analyst,
Note that one well. When I got one several years back my letter said just "Systems Analyst", not "COMPUTER Systems Analyst".
You wouldn't BELIEVE how hard it is to convince a good ol' Customs boy that if the job is programming, it's OBVIOUSLY "Computer" Systems Analyst even if it doesn't say that exactly...
If you are a foreign student studying in the US it can be a real challenge to stay in the US to work. Here are a couple of pieces of information that I assimilated during my application process.
Once the H1-B has been given your next goal is to go for a green card. This is typically at least 3 year process although it can be shorter if you have an advanced degree and the demand for green cards for your country is not too high (i.e. you are not from India). Since the inital H1-B is only granted for 3 years with a possible extension for another 3, you should really get moving on the green card process. The whole thing is a little easier if you are not trying to get your whole family to move over here with you and it is certianly easier if you happen to marry an american.
That is about all I know. Good luck
Solaristrum: One who has spent way too long staring at the Sun
Get a job in tech support. Your odd accents and peculiar word choices are perfect match to detailed instructions and technical vocabulary that the common person needs to understand.
--
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
Of course it's an economic motive!
The question I have is: I think that thinking is totally unfair (and as unfair as the pejorative labels of "racist"). Moreover, I think that people who want to stay in the US should (as in morally should) want to be here because America is a great place to live, and offers democracy, constitutionally guaranteed freedoms, a honest judiciary in addition to economic opportunities. In short -- I want them to WANT to become Americans.
In short, I'm personally in favor of immigrants from ANYWHERE that want to come to America and BE AMERICANS -- this is what America is about.
For a whole laundry list of reasons, most of them economic, a lot of recent non-western immigrants have come to America not to be Americans but to be whatever culture they are in America -- not speaking English and not participating in the established culutural milieu. I think this is the wrong way around, and goes against the grain of the immigrants that have been successful AND accepted.
What's made immigrants successful long-term has been their willingness to be Americans, socially and culturally, not just their desire to make a fast buck.
(Numbers may be approximate as a result of memory errors) Last year Congress authorized the immigration department to pass out 90,000 green cards. They were only able to process the paperwork for 60,000. Over 30,000 qualified applicants did not receive green cards. Holding an H1B visa is no guarantee; there's a good chance that after your six years are up, you'll be shipped home. Of course, you could always stay illegally; the worst thing they'll do is deport you, after imprisoning you without trial or counsel for an indefinite period of time. The immigration system is kinda broken right now...
Of course, this doesn't begin to address the question of whether or not companies should be permitted to import workers. Companies which claim that they need more or better qualified workers should detach themselves from the governmental teats long enough to develop better recruitment, retention, and training programs. Any corporation could have as many trained workers as they liked within two years if they were willing to pay for it. If they don't want to, why should we permit them the post-modern counterpart to slave labor - "Don't want to work 100 hour weeks for $30K/yr? Well, we'll just cancel our sponsorship of your visa and you can go home and live in squalor!"
Honestly, I really don't like the idea of someone coming over here on a student visa, and then wanting to stay after graduation. If I'm not mistaken, the whole purpose of the student visa was give foreign students who couldn't attend college in their home country a place to learn. This equips them to return to their home, and build a better life, community, state, nation.
But wow,... the idea that these students, who were so fortunate to be given a chance to better themselves,... to become the leaders of their home nations, suddenly want to stay. Is there an ulterior motive here? Perhaps an economic one?
Look people, Student Visas are part of a foreign affairs agenda which believes that by helping other countries become better, that we become a better global society. I fully support this, and have no problem with that.
BUT, H1B visas are only to provide temporary labor, when such a demand cannot be provided by citizens. Honestly, I think the system has been twisted into letting corporations obtain (for lack of better words) slave labor.
So for a person on a student visa to suddenly want to continue working in the United States is completely undermining the purpose of their original stay.
Look people, Student Visas are part of a foreign affairs agenda which believes that by helping other countries become better, that we become a better global society. I fully support this, and have no problem with that.
You seem to be very naive. The whole purpose of bringing bright students from other countries to US is to get them educated and ready to support US economy. They come here, they learn, maybe do some research (grad students), and then they become productive members of US society. Reason they do it? US can't educate enough people in lower levels of education, send them to their colleges and fill those high-tech jobs. I know, 'cause at my school in my departament every other student is from outside US. My two roommates are from outside, and two out of three of my office mates are from outside. So am I.
US doesn't care about other countries, if it doesn't benefit US.
m
UBU
- Make sure that all students have done an internship with local or regional employers. This gives them a chance to get a sponsoring employer when it is time for green cards/H1B visas.
- Have a counselor experienced in INS hoorah. Other
/. topics have explored the inequities of the system. Other posts have done a good job of trolling about racism and isolationism.
There is no good way to get a work permit in the US without a sponsoring employer. See the rules on H-1B visas and stuff on becoming a lawful resident.The major difficulty is that green cards are granted by country. Once your country has used up its number of green cards - you're up a creek. The other major difficulty is that immigration is usually by family status, rather than by educational status or training..
Again, if you want students to have a sponsoring employer after graduation, you must work on outside employment issues at all times after the second term of school.
The above says a lot about your own mentality/motives, btw.
The thing is, I would bet that you never have experienced what it is like to be poor. And you are led to believe, by the media primarily, that everyone's aspiration is to become rich. And you think that poor people would be especially striving to prosper.
Not nesessarily true. There are many societies who are not very much "richer" than the primitive people of stone age. I come from one. However, none of them envy the rich america. In fact, most of them scorn it for its greediness. Only if they get exposed to the corruptive influence of mass media (invariably sponsored by big bucks) do they start mistakenly thinking they need more in terms of "wealth".
Also, being an American you probably haven't experienced what it is like to NOT be free, have a police regime in your country and/or be politically and/or phisically opressed. From my own experience and observations of my fellow-immigrants to this country, the ones who are most happy here are the ones who came here in search of freedom, and found it. The most unhappy ones are invariably those who came here to materially better their lives, which was not hard to do once you are in the states. Compared to their "middle-class" income in their native country, flipping burgers at mcdonalds provided them with everything they didn't have back home. But once that was achieved, they didn't have anything else to strive for.
I suggest you get to know a couple recent immigrants and talk with them about their life. You will be surprised...
Eligibility Requirements
The problems with it were that ISSO takes 3 months or more to process the forms, and you really need to submit 3-4 months in advance of graduation. And then there were potential problems leaving the country in between. Since I was Canadian, I looked into getting a TN (NAFTA) visa. Much simpler. You just need a letter offering employment, $56, proof of education, and a profession on the approved list. It took fifteen minutes to get the visa, but make sure your appointment letter says the exact same job title as the jobs list (e.g. Computer Systems Analyst, Engineer, Mathematician, Scientific technician/technologist, Technical publications writer, Astronomer, Biochemist, Biologist, Geneticist, Physicist). The disadvantages to the TN visa
I work for a global IT consulting company (hint: recently split from an accounting firm) from an offshore office somewhere in Asia. I've had the experience of working in the US (for two years) for the same firm and can offer the following insights, some of which may contradict what flatpack has stated:
1. On the overtime work/pay situation, the rest of the world is "catching up" with the US in terms of the the amount of overtime and absence of overtime pay. My firm recently standardized the overtime policy to keep in line with the American situation...most of Asia stopped paying overtime pay for IT people about two years ago, and Europe is not far behind. I think this trend is true for most "multi-national" IT firms, and most startups follow the same model. So, between working for a third-world salary vs. what-would-have-gotten-in-the-US, I think I'd pick the US option.
2. About the lack of humanity...I've found that American managers (at least in my firm) are more "human" than my home country managers. They bother to check if you have a personal life (which most Asian managers don't care about or won't even ask about due to cultural blocks). What I find really nice is the "Work hard, play hard" policy that most Americans adhere to...In Asia, the ability to balance one's personal life and work is lopsided towards work...probably due to cultural and economic factors.
3. Admittedly, it is hard to secure an H1B visa. Does it mean that the policy is racist or short-sighted? Might...but in this case, the benefit of the doubt should be cast. I come from a country where graft and corruption are part of official govt. procedures and redtape is used to print our money. Hate to sound desperate or un-nationalistic...but I'd probably jump-ship the first chance I get (which some of you probably wanted to hear...but that would be OT).
From someone who works w/ the INS on a regular basis:
1) Start early: Many applications don't go through due to procrastination on the part of the applicant. Many of these processes take months or even years. And don't wait for your current residency to expire before looking for the next one.
2) Check your work: There are tons of hoops you have to jump through and they are not well marked. The INS won't always helpfully remind you when you have a problem. Only warning here is not to pester the INS too much-- that could delay your answer.
3) Get assistance: Some lawyers specialize in immigration issues. Talk to one-- she'll be able to give you advice which is tailored to your particular case. Or talk to your congressional office-- they have people who know the rules and can explain them to you. Your company can also help-- IF you plan on staying there long enough for them to benefit.
Americans need to realize that immigrants not only work harder than natives (have you ever met a Hispanic migrant farm worker who works less than 13 hours a day?), but contribute more to society. These people come to the US because they believe they can find something better. They are willing to work for the privelege of the American Dream (TM). Perhaps instead of berating the former engineer from Kenya, you should thank him for being willing to mop your floor, despite the fact he is better trained and more intelligent than you.
Flipside is that rampant immigration can cause problems. California is definately a case for this. Southern Texas has PO box towns where Mexicans receive their Soc Sec checks before returning south of the border. But, in general, these are rare and isolated cases.
Unless your ancestors came to the U.S. as slaves or transported criminals, they too came here with an ulterior motive, seeking a better life for themselves and their descendants. You are the beneficiary of this, and you might want to consider how it looks for you to want to deny others the opportunities that your ancestors had.
Give us your poor and huddled masses, yearning to breathe free...
Let's face it, the Government in it's "heroic" efforts to keep control of the fast-changing employment situation here in the US is not making it easy for foreign people to work here - even if you get an H1B you end up stuck in the same job for your entire period and then get kicked out the country like an illegal immegrant. Hardly an inspiring direction to take your life in.
And then there's the amazing lack of humanity in the majority of America's employers. What other country in the world lets it's citizens work 90 hour weeks without a single hour of overtime? Oh yeah, that's right, the whole reason for H1Bs is to get foreigners here to do those 90 hour weeks, and they don't even have to give you the same rights as nationals (not that America provides many for them either).
America's entire policy on foreigners working there is both rascist and short-sighted. For a country built from immegrants and minimal government, recent political viewpoints seem to be tending towards a xenophobic attitude in which only America counts, and if you're not an American, you can only come here if you're willing to live like a second class citizen.
Try another country - there are IT opportunities across the world, and in most places you won't get nearly as much shit as you'll be put through by the US government.