Slashdot Mirror
A Triplet Of AMD Goodies
Michael Baumann writes: "Look out Intel, AMD's at it again! Check it out!" According to the usual "Sources close to," "[a] 1.2Ghz Athlon chip should appear sometime near the end of this month." That would mean all my computers have been officially lapped, which is great. Ryan Shrout writes: "It looks like the rumor circulating on the Web recently that AMD would be removing the pins on the socket A CPUs to stop multiplier adjustments via the motherboard may be false. This post at the Athlonmb.com forums (Scroll down to the post by OptiX) states 'the simplest way to put it is that the multiplier lock seems to be part of the chip package rather than the core, and short of a new processor stepping and a complete revision of the processsor interface there's no way the FID pins can be removed, unless the multiplier becomes a purely DIP switch set function, which would defeat the object of the exercise!!'" Secondly, and probably of interest to far more people, this page discusses the expected price drops on AMD chips in the near future, and says that "the official date for the change is Oct. 30th, but [that] many larger distributors will be taking advantage of the lower costs as soon as the 15th." I hope so -- heat up, market, heat up!
We'll be getting them at about the same time
as we start seeing SMP Athlon motherboards..
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Yes, potentially the Pentium 4 will be a great chip, but the fact that Intel is still more or less tied down to support RDRAM will hurt it for some time to come.
And given that DDR-SDRAM is just about as fast as RDRAM (and probably faster in some cases!), not to mention the fact that DDR-SDRAM will mostly be way cheaper thn RDRAM, I think Athlon-based systems will become more and more popular as alternatives to Intel-based systems.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
> All of my AMD CPUs have suffered what the technical community knows as Silicon Burn. Mind you, these are K6-2 and K6-3 CPUS, but all of them have failed due to Silicon Burn.
Ever since the problem with the early-run K6-2's, AMD's chips have been as reliable as Intel's.
The only gotcha is that you have to provide sufficient cooling (just like you do for any chip). It may be that AMD's chips require more cooling than Intel's do, but you're still covered because you can visit their Web site and find out what they recommend for cooling.
FWIW, I've had a K6-III box running 24x7 for the last 18 months, and have not had any problems with it at all. I do have decent fans in my box, though.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Um, if you haven't noticed I *used* to be an insightful member of the /. community. Unfortunatley that community now sucks. I'm trying to blow all my karma on moronic trolls like the one I did above, though I'm not having much success losing all the karma.
Dude, I hadn't noticed. I mean, I remember your name vaguely from back in the day, but it's a bit narcissistic of you to think anyone is going to particularly notice the absence of your unique brand of irreplaceable insight. One particular poster's insightful comments are appreciated by many when they're there, but not missed when they're gone.
On the other hand, as a slashdotter for quite some time now I sympathize with the idea that the quality of debate around here has gone down a steep hill. Of course, when you and I were just coming around to slashdot, there was already the first wave of veterans leaving slashdot with complaints of how the community they used to appreciate was gone, how the new members (that's us!) were just a bunch of oafish ignorant trolling me-too waste-of-space first-posters who just didn't "get it". And yet we found slashdot to be a worthwhile place to offer our views and learn from others'.
So maybe we're right, and slashdot really has gone done the tubes. Or maybe that first generation of members was right, and slashdot was already worthless by the time we got here. Or maybe both groups are wrong: maybe it's not that slashdot's gotten worse, but just that we've gotten bored with it, grown out of it. That happens sometimes. In any case, even if they're "wrong" to derive worth from it (just as perhaps we were when we first started), obviously some people still like slashdot since its popularity continues to increase. Even if all those carpetbaggers are "incorrect" to want to join the slashdot community at a horrible time as this, they have a right to do so, and they have a right to expect that the existing community won't turn against them, take advantage of them, or abuse them.
Specifically, I mean that they have a right to be able to trust that someone who has earned a +1 karma bonus, ostensibly for reliably posting insightful statements, will use his amplified "more equal than others" voice in the community to inform rather than to mislead. By posting this troll at +2 by default, you abused the trust of the slashdot community, especially of those who were too ignorant to know better. The entire idea of the +1 karma bonus system is that those who have earned the bonus are insightful and honest enough to be trusted; you've subverted that assumption as well.
Now, I'm not trying to take away your right to troll. I firmly believe in that right, and indeed I'm finding more and more that I enjoy reading a well-done troll quite a bit more than the ho-hum repitition that constitutes the majority of "insightful" posts. Looking through your recent posts, I find that you've written several worthwhile and funny trolls lately, and have in some cases gotten rewarded for it (although it's a reward you claim not to want). But there are trolls and then there are trolls, and the line between the two is subtle. What I mean to say is that there are good trolls--where the effect is to trick some people not into believing what you say, but into believing that you believe what you say, and thus into humorously wasting their time trying to argue against your ridiculous point. And then there are posts like this--"misleading" might be a better description than "troll"--where the result is that at least some people are tricked into actually believing what you say is actually true. This is the sort of thing that has no place here, especially in a post with an automatic +2. Now, as I said the line is a subtle one, and on some boards this type of post would fall into the "funny troll" category, not the misleading one. But as you must know by now, slashdot is not known for its accurate knowledge of the x86 hardware scene. I'm sure it was inadvertant on your part, but your post had the potential to seriously misinform many readers who would assume it to be true, especially given the personal nature of your made-up anecdotes and your +2 score.
Besides, your stated reason for trolling in the first place is (sorry) pretty fucking lame. You don't feel slashdot is up to your standards anymore? Fine. Look around, find a new more sophisticated site to hang out on (there are plenty, trust me), or a better way to spend your time. (I'm sure there are many many better ways all of us could spend our time, but anyways.) What reason could you possibly have for trying to "blow" all your karma?? It's not like it's useful for anything. It's not like using up all your tokens on expensive snowboarding games when its time to leave the arcade. If I were you I'd keep it around--maybe that auto +2 will come in handy one day when you really want your voice heard on something. It's not like karma goes away over time or anything; it just means that, should you ever stop by slashdot, you'll get moderator access and your bonus. Nothing wrong with that.
Again, if you want to troll, go ahead; in fact, keep it up. But even if you're unhappy with it right now, you are part of the slashdot community, and with the recognition your karma bonus gives you comes responsibility. There are plenty of other options if you want to troll. Don't take your +1 bonus. Post anonymous, or create a new login and identity just for tongue-in-cheek trolling. Yes, your trolls will be seen by a lot fewer people if they don't start at +2, but that's the way the moderation system is designed to work--to give people who don't know any better an idea of what's accurate and what's not. Just because you can take advantage of it doesn't make doing so ok.
www.windrivers.com has a nice list of processor prices from PriceWatch. It's right on the front page, at the lower right, updated frequently. Includes all the AMD, and Intel processors in current production.
Damn them, now I'll have to put in a P.O. for a space heater *and* a new server =P
--
<pedantic>
A few things. First, though things like Graphics cards will *possibly* tax the limits of PCI, many things that're currently connected to the PCI bus won't tax it. Take, for an instance, that the 33MHz 32bit PCI bus can transfer data at approx. 132MB/s. Now, even Ultra160 transfers data at 160Mb/s (note the b vs B). The ATA100 clocks in, at most, at 100Mb/s. I don't see the 33MHz 32bit PCI being the bottleneck, do you?
Now, if you throw a caching RAID controller on it, things become different. That's why on server-class mb's, you'll find 64bit 66MHz PCI slots, that're, at first-order analysis, *four* times the speed of the 33MHz 32bit PCI.
I'd rather see 64bit 66MHz PCI graphics cards than the current crop of AGP 2x or 4x graphics cards, imo.
</pedantic>
--
Hey, ya know, not all of us have time to read every post. I know it may sound strange, but some of us have other things to do.
I apologize for not reading and absorbing all the posts. I'll try to do better next time. Wouldn't want to piss off an anonymous coward.
Um, if you haven't noticed I *used* to be an insightful member of the /. community. Unfortunatley that community now sucks. I'm trying to blow all my karma on moronic trolls like the one I did above, though I'm not having much success losing all the karma.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Sounds like my case temperature will be the first thing heating up. I thought my 800 Mhz Thunderbird was hot.
According to a recent press release, the 1.2 Ghz Thunderbird will come with it's own drip tray and an endorsement by George Forman
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
I'm one of the Windows 2000 Geeks of the Week
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Well isn't that why I put the 'copper' in '"copper" Duron' in quotes? I already knew there was no such thing. I'm not given enough credit for what I know.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
No! Where did you dig that little tidbit from? It's not even relevant to this thread!
Well, they should, because I know for a fact that Intel, HP, Epson, Compaq, Creative, 3Com, and Guillemot have reps that visit the CompUSA where I work. There was an IBM rep; that is, until IBM stopped all retail sales. The reps check everything from product placement to storage and display practices, and we've had no incidents at all. Despite what you believe, CompUSA isn't so full of the money grubbing demons as you would prefer to believe. Only the Retail Managers, Hardware Managers, and General Managers are concerned with the bottom line, and rightly so; you wouldn't just idly watch potential profit walk out the door now, would you? As for the rest of us, we're too enveloped in our jobs of getting the customer the hardware and software to meet their needs in the most cost-efficient way. At least that's my work ethic.
AMD has even more problems with selling the Duron: the retail-versus-OEM issue. In the retail version, the multiplier pins are missing, so that turns off the hardcore AMDOCers. The OEM processors are often tampered with by the OEMs themselves, sometimes in a similar fashion to this Duron-burning fiasco. The Retail version of the CPU is held back in performance, while there's absolutely no quality assurance for the OEM version. This is what's known as a lose-lose situation for the consumer.
I'm appalled that you're not standing up for the techie consumer, while I, a representative of a retailer, am doing so. Gee, what's wrong with this picture?
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
However, your claims of me being a karma whore are refuted by the fact that I, sometimes, go out on a limb and express my (nearly) unfettered opinion on something. That keeps my karma gain in check. Right now, I'm at 27, and I was at 33 last week. Time to go back up a few.
I have made a vow, though, to check headlines before I post something which isn't a related story to the scoop. For instance, on the Enigma story, I went right to the BBC webpage as I was writing my post so I could get facts straight. When you say that I don't read the articles, you're saying that out of pure spite and jealousy.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
199.2F! That's above Intel's original design limit of 180F. Personally, I think that anything in the 130F range is pushing it. I might start getting water blocks for my next system, but that's the kind of guy I am.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
It's true. Just count up how many "AMD Rü13z0r5!!! 1Nt3L 5UX0R5!!" posts there are. My theory is that the AMD stories on Slashdot always get the highest troll percentage of all the topics that Slashdot covers.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I've seen reports that Tyan said they'd have one released by Summer 2000, which has passed. Do any vendors sell a dual Athlon motherboard?
I'm going to be building a new computer, one of the things I want is SMP. I'm hoping I don't have to buy Intel.
per PriceWatch.com
the current price on:
AMD Athlon 1GHz 3DNow @ $415
AMD Thunderbird 1.1GHz @ $645
AMD Thunderbird 1GHz @ $406
This compares with Intel's:
Pentium III 1GHz @ $699
If the prices drop any lower, I definatly know which processor company I'll be using next. I just hope that we'll see Dual-Processor configurations soon.
--
you are not what you own
it's a sig, wtf?
I think what you're seeing is that on P75 doing simple window manipulation had a small if noticable delay, whereas once you're above 150 mhz most of that lag is not processor limited (eg, ram/disk/IO). The stuff that goes faster was already fast enough that you don't really notice the improvement.
Trees can't go dancing
So do them a big favor
Pretend dancing stinks!
..because then we could all run around yelling "One point twenty-one gigahertz? One point twenty-one gigahertz?"
That's all I want out of life. Is that so much to ask?
As chip manufacturers continue to up the clock rates, the returns for the end users diminishes because the rest of the mother board is stuck in 5 or 10 year old technology. Memory bandwidth, FSB architecture and even the operating system all play a large roll how a processor performs. While The technology and clock rates are impressive, until other areas of PC architecture catch up the value to the end user isn't the same as a doubling of the clock rate was 3 years ago.
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
I think the reason why AMD is now way ahead of Intel in the CPU game is the fact that unlike Intel's Pentium III (which in many ways is still based on the original P6 CPU core pioneered by the Pentium Pro way back in 1995), the Athlon CPU core is a "designed from scratch" core that is capable of being increased in speeds to well beyond 1,000 MHz.
With 128 KB L1 cache, a totally-new FPU unit and now 256 KB of on-die CPU-speed L2 cache, the current "Thunderbird" Athlons will reach 1,400 MHz by the end of this year, matching the speeds of the Pentium 4 when that is released. A 1,400 MHz Athlon on a motherboard running DDR-SDRAM will likely be at least as fast as a Pentium 4 system running RDRAM, but will be substantially cheaper.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
All of my AMD CPUs have suffered what the technical community knows as Silicon Burn. Mind you, these are K6-2 and K6-3 CPUS, but all of them have failed due to Silicon Burn. I've heard several reports of the new Thunderbird Athlons failing due to Silicon Burn as well. Personally, the extry 200Mhz isn't worth it to me when I know that the CPU could fail tomorrow. I have had no problems with Intel CPUs, even when overclocked they do not experience Silicon Burn until you have been using them for several years.
LoC-
I really do enjoy most of your trolls--looking through your user info it's kind of humorous to see which happen to end up +5 funny (generally the heavyhanded ones) and which 0 troll and -1 flamebait (often the most subtle)--but I think this is a bit irresponsible. Believe it or not, there are many people on Slashdot dumb enough to swallow this. And while you (and I sometimes) might think they deserve to pay an extra $100 for an equivalant CPU, both they and the good folks at AMD would rather legitimately disagree.
Indeed, while I think it's a very disturbing sign of how much corporate power has usurped the 1st Ammendment, there have been companies who have sued posters for knowingly making similar false claims in online public forums--and won. Yes, they shouldn't win, and yes it's very doubtful that AMD would stoop that low, but that doesn't change the fact that you're purposely spreading ignorance and doing a lot of people a great disservice by posting shit like this here.
If you want to troll making fun of public misconceptions of AMD chips, save it for boards like JC's or Ace's or SI, where people actually know something about the CPU market, not Slashdot where the vast majority are completely ignorant on the subject. And think before you post, dude.