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Push Underway For Languishing UCITA

mojotoad writes: "Efforts have currently be redoubled to push UCITA through up to 10 states by the end of the year, according to an article on law.com. Apparently, the bill has been "languishing" in state legistlatures. My favorite quote: 'There is a natural euphoria whenever you draft a bill like UCITA,' says Daniel Duncan, executive director of the Digital Commerce Coalition. 'We thought, "We'll take it to the states and they'll see the wisdom of our work."' Time to redouble your effort to thwart this beast. Contact your congressman."

17 of 79 comments (clear)

  1. That should change software testing policies by girish · · Score: 4

    "Pullen wants software companies to be held liable for damages for security breaks resulting from the backdoor technology -- as well as damages from known glitches in software."
    People will think twice before putting out software now *cough* MS *cough*.

  2. And you claim to live in a free society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3

    How is it that Americans constantly proclaim their amazingly free society when totalitarian legislation like this can become law? It blatently tramples over all kinds of Constitutional rights, precedents established in courts and the general moral principles claimed by Americans in political arguments.

    Until you stop letting your Government using the Constitution as novelty toilet paper, your hysterical rantings about the "land of the free" are nothing more naive, foolish posturings.

    1. Re:And you claim to live in a free society by hiryuu · · Score: 5
      Until you stop letting your Government using the Constitution as novelty toilet paper, your hysterical rantings about the "land of the free" are nothing more naive, foolish posturings.

      At the risk of sounding like Katz...

      It happens because America is a land of consumers, not citizens. Anything that doesn't specifically enable us to dole out more money for goods and services (to the benefit of corporate interests everywhere) is effectively deemed unnecessary, and anything (such as personal rights) that hinders market reach, share values, and profitability is a threat to be removed or otherwise addressed.

      And it's not just that we're being forced into such a position - we're accepting it, settling into it nearly wholeheartedly. (A minority of eligible voters even bothered showing up to vote in the last presidential election, and it gets even worse during years when we're not voting on that office.)

      Point and jeer all you want - we earned it.

      --
      Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.
    2. Re:And you claim to live in a free society by b0z · · Score: 5
      How is it that Americans constantly proclaim their amazingly free society when totalitarian legislation like this can become law?

      We were a lot more free in some ways in the past. Of course, there have always been stupid things going on, while white males were more free 150 years ago, women were considered 2nd class people, and native americans and black people were considered to be animals. We are also more free than some other countries right now. We are not being run over by tanks for protesting, our police don't kill us as often as the police in some other countries do, although it is getting worse here. And, for the most part we still have some of our rights given to us by the constitution, but that list is getting shorter.

      The problem is that most Americans that think we are free do so because their heads are stuck in the past. They don't see what our government has become and how they are getting worse. They don't see that rather than having concerned citizens who are willing to protect the things important to them, we are mostly "consumers" who only care to get what we want to feel good or have fun for a little while. It's not that there are not good people out there, but that the majority only cares about themselves as an individual. That's why most parents are ok with having both the mother and father work 10 hours a day, then come home in time to ship their kids off to soccer practice so they don't have to deal with them. People don't care in the U.S. about anything other than getting more money and more things. We have been converted to a consumer country. Everything is about money, and nothing is about what is good or bad.

      I am very fond of how this country was started, and that my life is not in danger as it would be if someone with my attitude were living in China, but that doesn't make the U.S. any less wrong than it is now. I don't know where it all went wrong, but as it currently is, I hate the U.S. but don't know any free place to move to.

      --
      Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
    3. Re:And you claim to live in a free society by ansible · · Score: 3

      And, for the most part we still have some of our rights given to us by the constitution, but that list is getting shorter.

      You have it backwards. Unfortunately, this belief that the Constitution gives us (the people) rights is not correct.

      The Constitution does not give us rights, it is supposed to sharply define what (hopefully few) rights the government has. In the view of the Founding Fathers, we already have the rights (God-given and all that), and it's the government that has to be given some rights for the benefit of society as a whole.

      The government and the special interest groups have come to believe that the government and the Constitution are the source of our rights, and have been acting in that fashion for quite some time now.

      No, the original intent was that the government take the minimally necessary steps to ensure the safety and well-being of all. However, it has become an instrument of special interest groups to try to carve out areas of interest and profits for themselves.

      It's well past time for everyone to see the folly of such an attitude. It is like with a community park, where the neighbors don't get along with each other any more. First one person stakes a claim on "his" portion of the park. Then everyone now becomes intent on stakings claims to "their" parts of the park. Soon the park is broken up into all these little areas, all clearly marked. Sure, now you've got your own space, and no one will disturb you without your permission. But you can't play frisbee in the park, nor have a picnic, or just go for a stroll without a lot of negotiation. This is tedious and time-consuming. The park as a whole as lost much of it's value.

      Contrast that with a more community-minded attitude (such as with OSS). Everyone shares the park, and helps maintain it. You don't have all these boundries to worry about. You just go ahead and have that frisbee game, or walk your dog, or have a picnic. Of course, this system is subject to abuse. Some people may leave litter after their picnic, or some dog crap after a walk. But the answer to this is education, not legislation. That's what we strive for in the free/OSS community, and that's what we should strive for in the rest of the world too.

      Aside: Hrmmmm... I'm in a very Libertarian mood today. I wonder why?

  3. Liability by SurrealKnife · · Score: 4
    The computer industry has to be the only one where weekly downtime is expected and accepted, where the industry-standard software for end users is hated by everyone, and where a product that dosen't work can't be taken back to the shop (Oh no mate, you've opened the shrinkwrap - can't take that back now...)

    This should have been the bill that would put an end to a lot of this, but no:

    while software companies should provide reliable goods, they shouldn't have to bear potentially enormous risks associated with the use of their products.

    "How many companies are there who would undertake that risk?" Kupferschmid asks. "No one would. It's just too great."

    So: The industry knows that its software can cause enormous problems, and yet does not want to take responsibility for them. If a building contractor were to say that, they would be slapped down!

    Now instead of a law which would finally force companies to take responsibility for their software and actions, we have one which will instead give them more opportunity to prevent us from doing anything about it. How long before license agreements prevent the dicussion of bugs found in the program? It could be done!

  4. Contact Your Local Representatives! by CritterNYC · · Score: 5

    Don't just contact your congressman or senator, contact your local legislative representatives. Local representatives respond (usually) to pressure from their constituents. The best thing to do is to write a letter. Followed by calling them up. And last (and least) drop them an email message. Find your local representatives at the Nationcal Conference of State Legislatures site. Or try one of these other two directories: here and here.

    Some day I hope to have a .plan.

  5. relentless by Veteran · · Score: 3
    One thing about the sort of people who push things like UCITA - they are relentless. No matter how many times they are beaten they keep coming back. They want to win by exhaustion. If they get voted down 90 to 10 they don't let that stop them. Why? Because they know that if they keep coming back eventually the opposition will get tired of knocking them down.

    If saner minds prevail, and UCITA is defeated in a few states it will not stop them . We have to understand this and be just as resolute and relentless as our opponents. We also can't give in in the states where UCITA has passed. We have to keep working to get those laws repealed.

    "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance." That is what that phrase means. Fighting these people is a lot like mankind's fight with the cockroach - it will never be won - but you have to keep fighting. Set yourself mentally for the fact that you are in a fight that will last your lifetime. We might win battles, but the war will never end.

  6. Re:I'm from Virginia ... by elbuddha · · Score: 4


    I also am from Virginia. Yes, the UCITA legislation has passed. HoweverThere was also a resolution passed that the Joint Commission on Technology and Science would study the impact of the legislation and report back to the General Assembly by December 1, 2000. Furthermore, the UCITA legislation is not set to take effect until July 1, 2001.
    It is not too late.

    Write to your state senators and representatives (not your federal congressional representatives, but the ones that represent you in the state legislature - which you can find here - although it probably couldn't hurt to write to everyone in the state legislature if you are motivated to do so). Refer to the Uniform Computer Informations Transactions Act, or SB372 (from 2000 legistlative session) or CHAP996 (the actual additions to the Code of Virginia). Explain to them nicely, coherently, and concisely why UCITA is bad for Virginia, its citizens, and even its businesses. Point out how the other states have been unwilling to adopt UCITA and why.

    UCITA can still be repealed in Virginia. Now is also the time to redouble our efforts towards that goal.

  7. Re:In which states is UCITA up for a vote soon? by jjr · · Score: 5

    UCITA was passed by Virginia and Maryland last
    year, but only Maryland has enacted the law.
    Virginia is still holding hearings on UCITA,
    which is scheduled to become law in July 2001.

    The bill will be up for review this year in Delaware, Hawaii,
    Illinois, Iowa, New Jersey, and Oklahoma.


  8. Yet another example... by Millennium · · Score: 3

    that governments are seldom more than corporate shills anymore, and nowhere more than in the US.

    I like this bit: "if software companies are liable for glitches, it will stifle innovation." I say good; far better that our technology is reliable, rather than just being The New k-r@D l33t $7uPh Microsoft and its ilk try to push on us on a yearly basis.

    Of course, there needs to be a law out there forbidding any software license (or any other IP license for that matter) from prohibiting activities defined as fair use. No more of this presumption-of-guilt crap from IP-based businesses who see someone copying a DVD to his hard drive and assuming he's going to pirate it. Come to think of it, I've often wondered if fair use should be formally defined; anyone have a take on that?
    ----------

  9. Hmm...this is baaaaaad... by jmorse · · Score: 3

    Just a couple of thought here:

    1. Don't write your congressman:Because this is a uniform set of proposed state laws, your congressional rep in DC can't do much about it. Instead, contact your representatives in your state legislatures.

    2. The software manufacturers want the best of both worlds:There has been a debate in recent years about whether software constitutes a product or a service. In broad terms, vendors selling a product are more accountable to consumers than those selling a service. UCITA sounds like an attempt by corporate giants to treat their software as a product, while still maintaining the lower liability thresholds associated with a service. It really sucks.

      Here's an idea...Let's get UCITA ammended. Software makers could have a choice: either (a) open source your software under GPL and enjoy the limited liability associated with a service, or (b) put out a closed source product and be held accountable. That might just cause some vendors to make better software...

    --

    "You done taken a wrong turn."
    -Bill McKinney, in Deliverance
  10. So submit an alternative... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3

    One thing about the sort of people who push things like UCITA - they are relentless. No matter how many times they are beaten they keep coming back. They want to win by exhaustion...

    [the fight] will never be won - but you have to keep fighting. Set yourself mentally for the fact that you are in a fight that will last your lifetime.


    There's a way to put a stake through its heart:

    Come up with an alternative and start lobbying to get THAT passed. This puts them in much the same position we are in now, and we've got more voters and callers.

    Once an alternative, setting forth OUR idea of what the law should be, is in place, they have to convince legislators, not just to fill in the void, but to repeal a popular law and replace it with an unpopular one. And you even get to argue on the relative merits!

    (Of course as any movie fan knows, occasionally the baddie gets the stake pulled OUT of it's heart. So it's not necessarily a win for all time. But at least you get to sleep more easily for a few decades. B-) )

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  11. Excellent List of States - Updated by LauraLolly · · Score: 4
    The law firm McBride Baker and Coles has a list of states, comparing introduction and adoption of UCITA and UETA.

    Great links!

  12. UCITA in Oregon by llywrch · · Score: 3

    UCITA will be coming up for a vote in the state of Oregon next year. See http://www.econ.state.or.us/icom/legalisc.htm for further details.

    What is especially appalling is that of the four people on the committee, two are IP landsharks, one is a VP of Microsoft, & only the last one is an elected official.

    Guess which way this committe is leaning.

    Geoff

    --
    I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
  13. Re:In which states is UCITA up for a vote soon? by binkless · · Score: 4

    Try the enemeywww.ucitaonline.com

    You can even sign up for e-mail updates!

  14. What happened in Virginia (a warning) by Stultsinator · · Score: 3
    When I called our local legislative branch about the bill I was asked if I knew what the bill was about and what my position on it was. That, I think, is a reasonable way to filter for informed people. What happened afterwards is a little annoying.

    Virginia opted for what I'm sure seemed like a reasonable compromize between my (and other's) fears and the desires of corporate America. They passed the bill so that they could continue to lure companies to Virginia (and keep the ones they have.) Then they said that the bill wouldn't go into affect until after a period of study of its affects (seems kind of odd that they can study something that isn't working, but it sounded good at the time.)

    Maybe I've been reading /. too much and have become paranoid, but I've never seen the results of that study and the bill recently, and quietly, came into affect.

    So here's my warning: If your state tries this with you and says that their going to do a study, find out who is doing the study, what methods they are going to use, and what the results are. Find out what conditions need to exist in order for the study to invalidate the bill. This will tell you a lot about how serious they are about the study, and whether or not you need to get a new representative.