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LaserMAME: Playing Tempest In A Whole New Light
Effugas writes: "Seen on Zophar is one of the slicker hacks I've seen pulled off in recent memory: LaserMAME. A group of hackers actually patched MAME to drive a Pangolin QM2000 Laser Show Controller Card, allowing them "to play Classic Vector Games on large surfaces, for example we could play it on the side of a building, or possibly on the clouds." Tempest, Battlezone, Asteroids, and many other classics work perfectly--though, unfortunately, the Star Wars classics still don't work correctly. Still, the video is incredible."
Is what they're doing tomorrow...
Oct 26th, 2000: This Saturday, we are going for the first large scale Trial... In conjunction with our sister Company Light Wave Laser Productions, we will be playing LaserMAME on the side of at least a 6 Story office building, playing from the Club AREA 51, Pittsburgh, PA. 2100 block of Penn St. in the Strip District. Come check it out...
... imagine a BEWOLF of these! You clould play Asteroids on the MOON!
"This amp is special, see all the knobs go up to 11, that means it is one louder than other amps"
someone mirror this, quick. already slow.
BilldaCat
I feel very sorry for whoever the network admin at shell-o-matic.net is. posting such a tantalising description on slashdot and linking to an obviously low-capacity site... it's going to be ugly. :)
- butcher
They can now take "tetris-on-a-building" on more step...I wonder how far the lasers can go...now all we need is TFC on a building...
How Jaded Are You?
I preferred the one where they wired up the side of one of the student towerblocks so that they could play 'Tetris' with the lights in the windows...
ManicHawk - Just because you're manic doesn't mean the walls aren't bouncy
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Rather have this than a PS2!
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
...and when the Citizens looked to the sky, they saw the giant vector-graphics in the sky.
They knew everything would be allright, Nerd-Boy was being called to the Commisioner's Office.
--
Feminism is the wild notion that women are human beings.
And it's what I want for Christmas. You can keep your $15,000 Playstation 2. =)
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Looking directly at the source of the beam can cause damage, but looking at the beam or the termination point ( the screen or building in this case ) is safe.
Prolong viewing could possibly have a little effect, but the lasers used here are similar to the ones used in laser shows ( like that one I saw recently with the music of Pink Floyd ).
--Chemguru
Just a little corection. Penn State is not inPittsburgh, though many people think so, and this would be neat in Beaver stadium. to blind the opposing team and give the Nittany Lions a chance to win.
:-)
You're probably thinking of Pitt.
That's Penn Street, not Penn State.
Could a laser board like used with a phosphor-doped board (to be used as a screen with a little remanence) be used as a tv ?
Can it scan|display 570 lines 25 times a second(pal) or 480 lines 30 times a second ?
Will this setup cost less/last longer than an lcd projector ?
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1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
Now instead of a getting big screen tv so play my Atari games I can just buy a laser.
So when is laser show quake tournament gonna start?
"The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows." -Aristotle Onassis
Now if you were in one of those buildings, and looked out the window right as a asteroid happened to pass, then you'd be in trouble.
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Username taken, please choose another one.
Going... Going.... GONE!!!
Anyone got a mirror?
Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?
________
It doesn't work with games that aren't just lines. It only works with games that use vector graphics (AKA X-Y monitors), like Asteroids or Lunar lander. For a complete list of games that used vector graphics and more information see this E2 node.
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Username taken, please choose another one.
move over ps2 and nintendo cube. This is neat! Unfortunately, the site is either slashdotted or super slow and i can't see the pictures. Anyone got a mirror? I couldn't find a Google Cached copy of the page or anything....
back on topic though...I would love to play life size pong. Oh wait..there already is a life size version that is completely immmersive. It feels as if you are actually playing Pong. THe game is called "Table-Tennis" or "Ping-Pong"
The anti-salmon
Sounds cool. What time will you all be doing this?
;)
Also, happen to have instructions for getting there by bus from Carnegie Mellon?
The actual laserMame link is:
http://www.laseremu.com/
my brother and me used to play it down at the bar
taking money from guys more used to the playing of cards
with the paddle to the paddle to the side to the side to the paddle to the paddle to the side to the side
pong
ball in machine
now virtually everyone's singing a popular song
but i still believe in the excellent joy of the pong
with the side to the side to the paddle to the paddle to the side to the side
pong
ball in machine
now if they take it h.g. wells
well i'll be on the first flight
to a time before the kong
oh whatever happened to pong?
with the paddle to the paddle to the side to the side to the paddle to the paddle to the side to the side
pong
ball in machine
-- frank black 'whatever happened to pong?'
(from 'teenager of the year')
of course i don't know if pong classifies as a vector game..
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
Speaking of which, in the movie Tron, the transition between Tron looking at the MCP's ship and Flynn driving the jalopy recognizer, there's a framerate drop down to 12 FPS. Since it's a cross-fade, the rendering computer had to render both scenes at the same time. Once the first scene fades away, the computer stops rendering it, and the framerate jumps back to 24 FPS.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
It is possible to do raster games with a laser controller. My buddy did it 15 years ago -- not actually with a game, but a television image.
This guy was the ultimate tinkerer. He actually built his own laser light show controller from scratch. The way he did the television image was to set up the mirror controllers to sweep the laser across in lines (that's two mirror controllers). Then, he welded a small piece of metal on a third controller, which could block or let the beam through. It would block the beam in proportion to the brightness of the pixel. It was pretty darn cool.
I think these guys really need to do some raster games. It's also a lot easier on the beam controllers.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
hmmmm, let's see, wait for a cloudy day with about a 200' celing, load up missle command and freak out the city. there has to be a law about this somewhere..;)
Dirty Pirate Hooker
I want one!
Oh, and can we make a (beowulf) whole block of these?
Imagine a group of hackers protesting a "no-arcade" local regulation with these mounted on rolling trucks, displaying Tempest on skyscrapers while driving around?
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Other than the fact that you've have to play 3 minutes into the future, while you wait for the light to bounce back from the moon.
Just play it off Mir instead. Maybe if you charge $5/game you can get enough to keep it in orbit...
Mr. Ska
You can also view the MPEG at Zophar's Domain by going here:
Video File
Why?
Because I LIVE in pittsburgh, and the Area 51 nightclub is on Penn Ave. There is no area 51 nightclub in state college, sorry- the crowbar just doesn't measure up. The address is right- so he said streat instead of avenue?
So what? I'm going!
How ironic, given that this is /. The reason the Star Wars bit looks like a link, but is unclickable is this: <a href="http://games.lasers.org/images/asteroids.jpg ">Asteroids<a> That's really very disappointing, I think Star Wars would be the primary game I'd want to play. Oh well, maybe they'll get it working soon. Finally, the science museum near my house will be able to turn a profit off of that Laserium equipment :)
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
My point exactly. On TVs and monitors, vector graphics have to be rasterized. Since vector displays aren't bound by an X-by-Y rectangular display, there isn't any aliasing.
On an offtopic note, in my high school planetarium back in April, I brought in my home computer to show my presentation on Venus and Mars. I projected Q3 on the 50-foot tall dome. Sure, the ultimate Q3 experience, but I was still looking at my monitor; I like CRTs too much.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I can see it now!
.... GAME OVER!
What's that on the sky?!?
A bird?
A plain?
No it's
Long live TUX!
As an undergrad years back, we considered putting together a system like this. We were planning to use an obscure game console, the Vectrex (image; emulator ) and projecting on the clouds above Los Angeles.
There are two problems with this approach. First, clouds aren't solid so higher altitude clouds are preferable and higher powered lasers necessary. Secondly, the FAA doesn't like lasers lighting up their airspace and possibly interfering with pilot's vision. The first issue didn't bother us, but lasers have a disadvantage that you can easily track them back to their source.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
I started watching the video..and in the first five seconds there is a guy typing on a keyboard....is there a reason he is only typing with one hand? seems a little awkward to me.
The anti-salmon
You know it was one thing when it was console game and only a crowd of 3 or so could watch and see how bad I sucked at Tempest.
There's not a chance in Hell I would play it in front of a crowd of 500.
In the immortal words of Tim Allen, "I would rather smash my balls flat with a wooden mallet."
You could play Asteroids off asteroids! (c=
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The next time you're planning the pyrotechnic show for a building demolition, think about LaserMAME and MAJOR HAVOC! How cool would that be? Play MAJOR HAVOC on the side of a building in 1:1 scale; when the reactor is triggered on level 13 and the little guy escapes in his space ship, the whole building blows up! You have to admit, MAJOR HAVOC was about the coolest vector game ever, and there could be no more fitting and lifelike way to play it than on the side of a six story building (especially in conjunction with implosive demolition, but be sure to get permission from your parents and/or the building owner.)
it's not /.'ed, it's a HOAX!
remember, you heard it from me first...
Annonymous Coward -- he will save us all!
I'M FEELING LUCKY!
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-- in china, chinese food is just called food.
I'd just love to play this on one of the many buildings here in Southern California contaminated by those cheesey feel good Wyland seascapes. I'm so sick of froliking blue whales and smiling dolphins attacking me every time I drive down the freeway. Imagine playing Ateroids. Forget the chunks of space matter, kill the Whales!
Yep, in the early 20th century before CRT displays and cameras had been developed, in the experimental dawn of television, people used mechanical scanners for cameras and displays.
The problem with vector video games is that you don't have a regular scan like you do with raster, so raster is actually easier to generate with a laser and mirrors because you just need constantly rotating mirrors.
FWIW, the first home TV recordings (time-shifting, even) were done by recording the analog signal using a wax phonograph recorder. On some examples of these discs, you can visibly see the sync regions, much like you can on a CAV laserdisc.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
When I was somewhere between 6 or 8 (back in 81-83) we actually had a table pong game in the basement. We didn't have any money at the time so I have no freaking idea how we got something like that but we had it. :) I can't tell you how many minutes we wasted playing that game! It had to be something like 20 or 30 minutes! Woo! :)
-Zane
This sig is worse than my last.
unless of course the reflection off the surface is specular[(like a mirror)(and therefore would preserve the energy density of the initially thin-powerful laser beam)] and not diffuse. but big buildings don't have any surfaces which can cause spec......oh wait.
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
Was it just me, or did some of the games have about 100x the flicker as other games in that video? Don't get me wrong, this is waaay cool! But I can just imagine large groups of people dropping the the ground in seizures after looking up and seeing someone playing tempest on the clouds... :)
Back in highschool we were setting up a weak neon laser and trying to bounce it all the way around one of the blocks of hallways using mirrors. By the time it got to the second mirror the beam was over 2" in diameter due to distance and a dirty mirror so I was looking at the mirror while aiming it. Our physics "teacher" then got upset and told me to go back into the classroom. I said there was no possible way I could damage my eyes with the beam that diffused but that just pissed him off.
Oh well, that's what I get for having gym coach as my Physics 2 teacher. God our (American) schools suck.
-Zane
This sig is worse than my last.
I can see a whole new wave of Vector Graphics games coming out again.
Since I still love Tempest that is a good thing.
--ken
Bitcoin pyramid: Join here: http://www.bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1427 it's FREE!
Actually if you look at the laser vendor site, they show how they can be used to render "raster" graphics - basically bitmaps, and can even be used for video.
Maybe I am just slow, but it took me 5 minutes to figure out how this article applied to a military standard regarding unwanted RF eminations.
-
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Does anyone have contact information for these folks available (friggin' web site is /.'ed...)
I'd really like to get in touch with them about this...
"Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
Hobyists are pretty much locked out of laser shows as well as open source developers. I just checked the webpage for the processor manufacture. They are proud of the fact the board has a serial number that will play shows written for that serial number board. (dongleware anyone) No wonder laser shows have progressed so slowly. There is no open source one upmanship in the developement circles. Everyone is building from scratch and trying to be best on the market. This makes the shows expensive and amaturish. Just immagine what serious hobyists could do with sharing shows. There would be plenty of great stuff. As example check out some of the great things done with MIDI, clip art, photography, freeware, etc. If all that was avaliable for "shows" was pro written, then all shows would have the uniform feel of a Microsoft Power Point presentation. Anybody else seen all the Microsoft clip art yet. True not everything freeware/opensource/royalty free is fantastic, but you could find just about whatever you need without having to write it from scratch.
The truth shall set you free!
Pity about the rather expensive controller card and additional bits of hardware this requires (and that they seem to be hoarding the source at the moment).
Somewhere down along my "hacks to do" list was to try doing something like this on the cheap. Rather than the laser projector, an oscilloscope would provide the vector image. An ordinary sound card would be used to provide the D/A functionality (using the left and right audio channels to drive the X and Y position of the beam), and perhaps a cheap circuit on a bidirectional parallel port to provide beam blanking or brightness (or an additional analogue channel from a second audio card).
Of course there are problems with accuracy and repeatability when using a sound card for specific D/A conversion, but the initial bit of poking around I did (canned "audio" loops corresponding to image test patterns) suggested that games would at least be recognizable.
Please stop linking to people web sites that cannot handle the slashdot affect. At least warn the sites beforehand becuase they might be running Linux.
No faster way to bring a site to its knees than to have Slashdot link to a video.
Unfortunately, the webpage for the astronomy class hasn't been built yet, so you can't see for yourself. However, it's great to see the elementary school children from around the state come in to see the show. At one point in the standard show for the kiddies, the sky goes cloudy, then lightning strikes (strobe light burst) and you can hear the sound of rain. At that point, Mr. Jameson, the astronomy teacher, runs around with a spray bottle filled with water and sprays at the audience! It's a blast!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
....so we take the reference rasterizer source code from the DirectX SDK/DDK and force the HAL call at the bottom of the T&L pipeline to deliver to this engine (forcing wireframe and pretending to handle all texture modes, etc...), than anything that uses D3D will render in mono wireframe on this badboy. I think the actual entry point is called MyRenderPrimitive and it takes a vertex buffer (gotta love MS and their My this and My that...)
Of course, I have no idea what the vector rendering rates are, but I think if someone published the command interface, it would be a few weekends worth of coding to get it up and running... but still, D3D would run on it...
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Unto the land of the dead shalt thou be sent at last.
Surely thou shalt repent of thy cunning.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
How about this:
Before posting links to small-time web sites, Slashdot themselves could download a full "mirror" of said site before posting, and include a link to that before the actual site link (or at the top of the article), since their own servers can obviously handle the load. After a week or so, however long it takes for interest to settle down, the mirror could be removed and the original link restored.
I am so sick of hearing about this majestic tetris hack, espescially since IT NEVER HAPPENED. The closest anyone can prove is a building VU meter, which was used for "one diminsional" tetris. Neat hack, but nowhere close to being really tetris played on a building.
This keeps showing up on slashdot, and it keeps getting shot down. See this story and search for tetris to read about the enormous difficulties of "building tetris" (I would provide a direct link to the appropriate comments, but they have been archived, and I don't want to just plagerize them).
Please, please, please, unless you can back something up with evidence (a link to pictures would be a start), quit spreading urban legends. We as geeks are supposed to be more skeptical than the general populous.
</rant>
Please give me one technical reason why file transfer via ftp is more efficient than file transfer over http. I'll give you a hint: it isn't. In fact, if you are opening multiple connections with ftp, then it is monstrously more inefficient. There is no magic that ftp is working in order to transfer files better over TCP. FTP is a terrible, deprecated protocol, which should never be used ever. DIE FTP DIE DIE. Thank you.
-W.W.
"Well it should be obvious to even the most dim-witted individual who holds an advanced degree in hyperbolic topology...
I was wrong. All I wanted was proof.
(Not that I would have wanted to switch schools, by any means, but the fact that the school system is so screwed up really annoys me. Government keeps throwing more and more money into it, and yet because of all the corruption nothing happens.)
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
You can contact us as rob@lasers.org
Yes it's extremely Dangerous... 5 uSeconds hit from the laser we are using tomorrow night will blind you... We are heavily Regulated by the FDA on Laser Safety... we Had to file a Show Report with the FDA just for the First Test tomorrow night... I don't even know if we got approved yet
Having actually worked with lasers on a regular basis, and having seen lasers project raster images, I'd like to dissagree.
While in theory scanning in horizontal lines may sound less taxing, you have a serious problem with the shear amount of data.
As each point in the image has to be drawn (obviously, it's raster) you have an incredible amount of points... unfortunately the fastest scanners out there can hardly cope with this. Basiclly, you generally get very small, simplified, images of only 1 field (assuming video) and at a low frame rate.
As far as I know, the only way you could get a solid, quality image, would be to incorporate multiple scan heads - each responsible for a different vertical segment of the screen. (which has been done)
I am a little sceptical of your friends laser TV... seeing as it seems to be quite the hack, which one would be hard pressed to reproduce given the latest technology.
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
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Rich neighbor hood is exactly the point. Schools in the US are generally paid for in property taxes. The schools in the wealthy parts should have better facilities. It's only fair.
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I am a little sceptical of your friends laser TV... seeing as it seems to be quite the hack, which one would be hard pressed to reproduce given the latest technology.
You know, now that you're making me shake off the effects of the crack and actually remember the details, I think you're right -- it didn't work. What I actually remember is him getting the controller to work with an oscilloscope (seeing a TV image on the 'scope was kind of cool in itself) but the mirrors couldn't move fast or accurately enough to make an image.
He did end up using the little light blocker in his laser shows, though. He could synchronize the blocker with the mirrors to create some cool effects.
It was still a cool experiment, though. :)
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
and to Freenet (fast but hard to use): freenet:KSK@mpeg/lasermameNTSC.mpg
In general, Mojo Nation and Freenet are great ways to mirror large content from slow sites. Both automatically mirror popular content so they're less slashdot-effectable.
-gcrocker
We have been projecting video-like images with lasers for several years. Since laser images are inherently vector based, we refer to these types of images as raster images. Yes, obvious and redundant. BUT, you must remember that we are using vectors to emulate the other medium. So I suppose it is not such a false nomenclature when you remeber that X-Y TV's get that extra vector prefix!
The current version of Pangolin's QM2000 (link in earlier post) supports direct projection of any video source -- even a composite input! We routinely project video from a live camera feed at our performances... perhaps those in Pittsburgh this weekend will get a demonstration.
Althought the best scanners today are projecting 50k points per second, this is measured using a special calibration frame. Since the X scanner is only following a sawtooth waveform, it is possible to more than double this speed. The Y scanner is basically relaxing to provide the vertical waveform. The color control comes from the PCAOM, which modulates the color at >120Khz. The results are stunning. Pangolin's website has great infomation on these techniques:
Real Time Video Raster Info
Thus, ANY video or GAME for that matter could be projected -- but the unique quality of laserMAME is that the format stays entirely in the vector realm, and infinite scalabilty is achieved.
George Dodworth
Lightwave International
lasershows.net
The correct postal abbreviation for "street" is "st" without the period. No postal abbreviation has a period, in fact. Therefore "st." correctly interprets as "saint", even if that's not what the author meant in context.
Ideally, neither abbreviation would have a period in it: all abbreviations containing the final letter of the expanded word in theory ought not to have a period, but we silly Americans threw out that rule a while ago.
-- Anne Marie
An oscilloscope (and any CRT) uses an electron beam, easily deflected by a magnetic field.
:)
To do this with a laser i.e. a photon beam - without all that messy and expensive mucking about with rotating mirrors and whatnot - would require a photon-deflection field...
Modulated gravity anyone?
Only other cheap approach I can think of offhand is hacking CD-drive laser mechanics *fear*
Not confused enough? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=www.slashdot.jp&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en
You hit the nail right on the head! The school district that I used to go to had by far the best high school in at least a 50 mile radius. Built in 1970, with a fully new technology wing and every classroom with at least one computer and net access. 4 computer labs filled with Apple G4s. Not to mention, one of the best bands in at least the state of Pennsylvania. However, I moved from my dads to my moms, and my mom lives in a different school district. My mom had no problem with driving me to school every day, but the school did. I am now forced to go to by far the worst school I've ever seen. I was in a Sr. High School at Williamsport, and am now back to the force-fed classes of Jr High.
Er...to clarify...this wouldn't be a projected system...the image would be viewed on the 'scope screen, not on the wall.
For projection, it's a simple matter at that point to swap out the 'scope for a set of X/Y scanners to deflect a beam, as the required signals are largely the same (keeping in mind that the latter have a finine 'scan rate' and may need to be fed slower). But I'm cheap and can't afford all that gear, whereas I've already got a 'scope lying around...the concept could at least be tested there, then turned over to somebody with suitable projection equipment.
At the moment, they are unable to release source code for it due to copyright issues with Pangolin. Could try convincing Pangolin to do something about this. Maybe they can release the code they're in binary form, which would allow these guys to release their source.
well, since my buddy matt is at home and away from his computer, he probably doesn't know his creation is featured on slashdot (or that his server has been crushed...btw i think it is BSD) The lasers flicker in the mpeg because of the video camera, not the lasers. Your probably seeing in the neighborhood of $2500 in gear. it is only dangerous to your eyes if you look into the beam..duh. Lasers will be the entertainment technology of the future. We are starting to be able to scan video and 3d rasters... getting high quality equipment isn't cheap and the US gov over-regulates us. Go to europe, see an audience scanning show and you will never have a need or desire for psychedelic drugs again because audience scanning lasers can create 3d worlds that totally immerse the audience. hmm..my elation at seeing one of my best friend's work on slashdot has me so surprised i can't think of anything else coherent to say.. (ha ha, coherent, its a laserist's joke :)