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What Will Happen to Sega?
A reader writes "Sega is getting out of hardware altogether. Salon has an interesting bit about the impending doom of Sega and speculation that among the other major players, namely Sony and Nintendo, Microsoft has the most to gain from purchasing the beleaguered Sega."
Jaguar was and is recognized as a premiere automobile manufacturer and they had patents on a damn fine engine. Sega isn't so lucky. Even with all that, it wasn't until Jaguar was bought by Ford that they started penetrating the mass market (US at least). Like the article states, Sega is (or should be) hoping for the same from MS.
"When it rains, it pours." --Morton's Salt
Hah, you old geezer, I'm not even out of college, and if last term's (yeah, terms) grades are any indication, I have a good five to six years before I do! Hahah, I'm still a sophomore, learning all this cool CS stuff. Wait, six years? Crap.
Seriously though, the problem isn't a new IDE, it's the hardware. Consoles generally speaking don't rely on APIs as much as accessing the hardware directly - most game companies actually write their own core code, which is of course highly proprietary, designed to get the most out of the hardware. The radical hardware design makes this more difficult than the PlayStation, and most other consoles.
In a way, though, this ensures that the PS2 games won't be taking full advantage of the console early on - may have been a good move. Bottom line is, there are extremely competent programmers out there who are still trying to figure out exactly how to best handle the PS2's hardware. It'll take them time to figure out, but you have to expect that.
It should also be noted that the original PlayStation IDE was based around Linux for whatever reason. Just because this is Slashdot, and most people like it when Linux is mentioned. Others rather hear about BSD or BeOS, but most like Linux.
I have no clue what the hell I just wrote. Damn sleep deprivation.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
The idea behind Nintendo using DVD technology for the Gamecube, yet only using 3" discs is somewhat as follows:
- Considering how much a DVD can hold, a 3" DVD can hold pleny of information for a full game. Especially considering that Nintendo is finally moving from a cart format to discs.
- Many many people already own DVD players in one form or another. They have no need for another (but they may WANT another). Sony is forcibly bundling this technology into the PS2, which is part of what pushes the price up to 300 USD when it should be at a comparable level to the Dreamcast.
- If you really want to get a Gamecube/DVD player, you can get one. Matsuhita (Panasonic) is the company working on the drive for the Gamecube, and they will be putting out a DVD player that will play Gamecube games as well.
It's a win-win situation, really. If you don't want to get another DVD player, you won't be forced to shell out 100-150 USD extra for one that's coming bundled with your console. If you do, get the Panasonic DVD player and go nuts. It's nice to have a choice in the matter, and I for one am very pleased that Nintendo won't be forcing the extra functionality down anyone's throats.
PCs have had analog controls for years, and I believe that you could consider those rotating paddle things for Breakout and whatnot on the Atari 2600 could be considered analog.
J
Last night I was playing Ridge Racer V. My roommate had some cars he unlocked on his memory card, and we wanted to use those in a 2 player race. He loaded the car from his memory card, but the game wouldn't let me load a car from his. So we had to manually swap the memory cards, load from his, and then swap back. On a DC game, you just pick which VMU you want to load from. The controllers are usually A, B, C, and D, and each has 2 slots. Thus, you pick Load from A1, or Load from B2, or D1, etc... Very convenient.
As for the Pocketstation, it not being available in the USA certainly doesn't help USA gamers, now does it.
The point of my comment was that, DC seems to be a much better platform right now. And I don't think there is any excuse for that, other than Sony is just complacent, and people are stupid enough to believe what they say.
In execution ... well, it'll look like and execution! No consumer in their right mind is going to accept Sonic the Hedgehog as a Microsoft property. Sonic is so closely identified with Sega that even if they painted him green and carved an X on his chest, people would still go, "SEGA!"
It's a pipe dream. Microsoft needs a first party mascot that the world can identify with, and the rather mannish chick they've got right now is certainly no Lara Croft. But you can't buy a mascot loved by the world, either. The market will reject it.
You can't really manufacture a mascot either. With Nintendo, it came by accident. Sega and Sony both lucked into a game with a character folks could identify with. (Although, Sony has now lost Crash ...)
Microsoft may buy Sega, but all they will gain is the elimination of a weak competitor.
I don't buy it. Instead I think that Sega will develop software, and (hopefully) stay independent. This will allow the company to be more profitable, because:
a. They aren't spending money developing hardware. (Although I saw something on ign about them not really abandoning the hardware side)
b. Software Sells. It costs almost nothing to physically produce, so sales are by definition profit.
c. Hardware doesn't. Sega loses money on each dreamcast that is sold, with the hopes that licensing costs that developers must pay will recoup their losses. The dreamcast had the misfortune of going against the playstation, which while graphically inferior, had an established game library, and was not yet obsolete. Why buy a new game system, when plenty of great games are still being manufactured for the PS?
d. With the rise in home gaming system power, arcades are not as popular. Sega was a leader in this market, but now it just isn't paying off. Switching over to SW development, if done well, with emphasis on quality games, may hopefully pull the company out of the red.
I think that they aren't in such need to recruit Microsoft as a buyer. Granted, Salon did hit it head on when they predicted NVidia to provide X-Box hardware, but I think here they are just speculating.
Thoughts, responses, flames? Bring it on!
Captain_Frisk
two days ago.
While they do intend to broaden their scope in the software market they ALSO hope to broaden their scope in the hardware market.
Future generations of SEGA hardware are already in development.
They are probably selling the DCs at a net loss hoping that game licensing will make up the difference, hence Sega is losing money. Also, the PS2 is not a year late. It is in fact probably being released too early since many of the tools to develop for PS2 are kinda crappy as I've heard. As for the hardware and graphics issues, PS2 is not being used to its full potential yet so an accurate comparison is not really possible. Wait a year and compare DC to PS2.
People are screaming that the PS2 games suck. Look at the original set of PSX games. Not very good either are they? Yet many of the second generation games rocked, compare Twisted Metal 1 to 2 for example. Big improvements were made. What killed the Saturn and may kill the DC? The later generation games sucked and sega stopped really supporting their console. What is happening now, well Sega is already starting to stop supporting their console... Get the picture?
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
His point was proven to me when we released our next game to great critical press, great reviews, and strong buyer feedback. Unfortunately, our publisher didn't advertise the game well, and our shelf space was limited. AS a result, we hardly sold any copies of the game.
My point is, you have to market the hell out of the games, not the console. This is where Sega is faltering. They aren't showing enough of their games where it matters.
This is EXACTLY what Sega is going to rectify with their new shift to software. Less focus on the console, and more on the games. The console sale will come afterwards ... you have to have SOMETHING to play the game on.
They aren't abandoning the hardware market, just aggressively pushing the software.
Every few months it seems some expert theorizes that sega is dead and that they will have to sell there soul (or work for MS -- same difference) to keep alive. The same thing with apple. How many times was apple supposed to die? Apple is alive (although not doing as well as others) because they can make a living by holding on to a small niche.
:)
Hopefully the video game market has grown enough to allow someone to stay alive by only holding onto a small band of die hard fans.
Anyway, apple isn't doing as well as other companies but they aren't dead -- and will probably live on way into the future. Likewise Sega isn't dead either. Yes they are loosing money but the DC really hasn't been out long enough to really start rolling in the dough and the market for consoles in Japan isn't what it used to be.
Anyway, don't panic and don't count the DC out yet. It is games that sell consoles and I think we will all agree (except maybe for the diehard sony fanboys) that RIGHT NOW Sega has got the games. If you have the great software sometimes you don't need the most powerful hardware.
Also notice how the article never once mentioned coin-ops. How can you even talk about Sega without mentioning that they dominate the arcades? I think the fall of the arcade has as much lead to Sega's recent trouble as anything else. Also is everyone else looking forward to Shen Mu as much as I am
That having been said, enough of these damn Sega rumor and Playstation 2 hype articles on /.
---
- Nintendo: Virtual Boy & N64
- Sega: Saturn & 32x
- Atari: Jaguar
Sony has been successful thus far, since only have had (until recently) one console offering. Who's not to say the PS3 will bomb? The real factor is always the software support and trends(ie. mascots, social trends, etc.)...what has saved Nintendo's sorry ass N64? One word Pokemon!(and to a smaller extent the Zelda hype)....geez even the new version of the console might as well be called the Poke64!Jaguar...no real software library..and if I remember right, the price was a little steep at the time.
Sega Saturn was a bear to develop for and saw limited sucess overseas, but not in U.S. 32x was hyped way too much and didn't deliver.
Sony had an exceptional freshman outing....and doesn't seem to be about to fall into a "sophmore slump"....but time will tell. Sony is still the new kid on the block, until Xbox comes along. All of the above mentioned companies have had excellent first systems(and even some seconds). You could have the most poly-per-second, trilinear flip-mip-whip mapping,pre rastering engine on the planet, but if you dont have the right mascot or licenses, and have developer friendly (or at least workable)tools....you're gonna have a bomb. And never forget luck!
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
SOA is doing fine, it's Sega of Japan that's struggling. Even PS2 isn't doing that well there, especially software-wise. The only thing that sells PS2's is the DVD capability. SOA sales are quite brisk and some monster titles are hitting this month, Sega net seems to be a hit, and the future actually looks pretty good in North America and Europe. The PS2 shortage may be helping things out as well, especially given dismal launch titles (which seems to be a console tradition...can't wait to see PS2 games coming out next fall!!). It seems that these steady Sega is dying articles are some kind of circular internet thing- all the news sites are reading each other's Sega articles, without fully investigating, and the faulty information is propagating, mutating as it goes. Just go out one weekend and rent a PS2 and a bunch of games, then go out another weekend and rent a Dreamcast and a bunch of games. Buy whichever system has the games you want to play out now, and don't worry about all this doom and gloom. Dreamcast's current installed base is large enough to let the system coast for a year and a half or so if no other unit sold. PS2 is obviously a juggernaut and once developers figure things out, it's going to rock your world. X-Box is still vaporware, but sounds promising. And Gamecube is really vaporware, but Nintendo always manages to sell things. Then there's Indrema, the gameless wonder (moo ha ha)
I have no idea what you're talking about, as SSX for the PS2 kicks fucking ass.
It's like, amazing. I was in awe. Addictive gameplay, beautiful graphics. I was in love.
And I own a Dreamcast, not a PS2.
--
Actually, they're all very similar in design and layout. All of Square's Final Fantasy games really do look and "feel" like a Final Fantasy game, while most of their other RPGs have a noticable trend away. The story line is almost always different, but in a way, that's a good thing. It would get strained to have the same characters over and over again - it would even begin to get boring if it was the same world over and over again. By having different backdrops, Square allows themselves to play with the gameplay in ways they couldn't otherwise. (V's job system, XI's Espers, XII's Materia, XIII's draw system...)
The other thing that ties all the games together are the basic weapon/item/spells/summons, which almost always carry over. (Masamune is in every game, Tonic, Potion, Tincture, etc., Fire, Fira, Firaga (or Fire, Fire 2, Fire 3 in the US up until VIII), Ifrit, Shiva, Cait Sith (a character in VII, "Stray" in US's VI (or III)), etc.). The basic game play is really quite similar among all the Final Fantasy games, and that's what gets people coming back to it.
(It also should be noted that Crash Bandicoot officially ended with Crash Bandicoot 3: WARPED, although they've decided that it's too lucrative and are instead coming out with Crash Bandicoot character games, like a Mario Cart and Mario Party clone.)
However, I do agree completely that Sony is the king of marketting, and that they've successfully used that to quell other platforms. Bascially, they try and win the developers over to the PS, and with PS2s weird hardware, games are that much harder to port from the PlayStation2. Unfortunately for Sony, that works two ways: It's also harder to port to the PS2.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
These articles are FUD, no different than the pro-Microsoft tactic used by people who feared seeing their platform of choice having to compete with alternatives. The truth is some people (and I'm guessing from the coverage that Slashdot's editors are among them) would love to see a console monopoly, just like my boss at work would love to see a Microsoft monopoly. Why? No worries about compatibility. For developers, no worries about developing for multiple platforms. Of course, there is a flaw in this thinking. Microsoft isn't a monopoly, but their domination of the desktop was probably not a good thing. Besides that, I really wish that non-x86 hardware had more of a chance in the marketplace. Variety is more fun than bland, ugly sameness.
What I really wish is that the Sony would be content with its hoard of casual users, caught up in fad gaming, and leave the consoles that cater to real gamers alone. (I mean, $1500 for a game console that's overpriced at $300 and won't really be that useful until there is a decent line up of games for it, if ever? We're in Beanie Baby/Cabbage Patch land here, a tulip bubble like this can't be good for gaming in general.) Unfortunately, that's not the way huge companies like Sony operate. They'll try to push Sega out of business even if it was only profitable as an enthusiasts system while they devoured the mainstream market. Stories like this are part of a concerted effort by Sony to do just that. Why do I think of these anti-Sega articles as propaganda, because no one treats the serious problems Sony had in the same light. In Japan, the PSX2 is a popular DVD-player, gaming is in a slump... that's bad for a company that is selling its consoles as a loss leader.)
The thing that amazes me is that as game companies go, they are extraordinarily lame. The content they produce in house is really sort of "bleah." I can't think of one Sony original title I consider a must own, and the only one that has name recognition with me is Crash Bandicoot. The big Sony titles were all produced by third parties, like Capcom, Konami, and Square (Square is not Sony, remember when Nintendo fans found out a similar truth about their own favorite console.)
Besides which, as has so often been said, Sony is responsible for a lot of the really bad IP laws we all have to deal with. They practically are the DVD CCA, all by themselves. They are one of the biggest multinationals in the world, and they are hostile toward their consumers.
They've also done their best to frustrate people who dare to play games outside of their region (yes, I know, no different than other game companies, but certainly negating any kind of fan loyalty people should feel toward them.)
Sega is far from perfect, as game companies go. However, when Slashdot constantly reprints the same story, after it was already refuted, it should cause them to lose credibility.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Gods, not THIS rumor again. I heard this one when Sega CD came out, and failed. I heard it again when the 32X came out, and failed. I heard it yet AGAIN when the Saturn came out, and failed as well. Save it for a press release kiddies, 'cause I'm tired of hearing this one.
I've been called a "Fucking Dick" by better people than you.
Apart from Pokemon?
Wat about:
Mario 64 (the game I bought the console for)
Goldeneye (a classic by any definition)
Perfect Dark
Zelda (at least a lot more credit than you give it)
Transparent colored consoles (even if you hated it you have to admit no-one had done it before).
Analog controls (I think Nintendo was first with this one).
There have of course been a number of other great games. I'm not a Nintendo fanatic - I already have a PS2 and love it. But I think calling the N64 anything but a quiet success is really a mistake.
I agree with all of your other choices, even though I own both a Virtual Boy (picked it up dirt cheap from EB clearance) and the Jaguar/CD Player (which had an OK library, but was difficult to program for and there wasn't enough incentive to learn).
On top of that, I still like the Nintendo controller better than the Dual Shock 2 - My hands are a bit large for the Sony controller.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Intresting fact about the Atari XE game system or even the Atari 5200 was that it had the same guts as the Atari 8 bit systems.
2 things have really kept SEGA down over the years. Really bad marketing, and of course, sony.
Sony has excellent marketing/hype. No doubts about that. Ive never seen so many slobbering idots wait in line to spend 300+ bucks on something with no AAA games and only a few worth even playing for more then a little while. But, you all know this.
Segas launch got neutered by sony prematurly announcing/releasing the PS2. Thats all there is too it. The PS2 could have stood a 1/2 year more engeneering, better middleware and dev kits, and publishers another year to make real games and not shovelware.
Sega also failed in the long run with what i think also smashed the saturn: not using their huge licenses.
Sonic, Phantasy Star, Panzer Dragoon... the list goes on and on. Sony and its third parties recognize on thing - the name sells. For example, Final Fantasy. wow, thay are on 9 in a few days and NONE of them have anything to do with one another, except maybe chocobos. Now ask yourself this, if each title was released under a different name, would they sell as well? No. In truth you could call final fantasy 9 "Po goes the the market to get a fish" and it would be the same game, but, square, as does sony, knows the value in a name.
This also illustrates the phenomena that the PSX brought to the gaming world: mass market gaming. No longer do you have 90% of the game buying public knowledgeable of the industry, you now have 30% at best. Thats a lot of people who dont even know that sega exists most likely. Tis a shame, as so few PSX titles have had any quality over the last few years.
For all the sony fanboys, for as much as you want sega to die, no competetion in the gaming market would mean the worst drought of AAA original titles for a long time. The average joe comsumer wont notice, as they couldnt find a good game if it was suck to their ass, but for the hardcore, it will mean final fantasy 39, crash bandicoot 234, spyro 34, and so forth.
Sega chooses to come up with original content, rather then play off old names. Jet Grind Radio. Samba de Amigo. ChuChu rocket(yes chuchu). Sega has balls, and some of the best game designers this side of nintendo. Anyone truly in to games shold be praying for segas development houses to stay in good health.
If you havent, go play samba, and tell me its not the most fun youve had with a game in a VERY long time. You may find yourself springing 120 bucks for maracas and the game before you kow what hit you. its that good.
"Stuff... In my home!? NEVER!" - Zim on Invader Zim
"I want the toilet seat!" - Little Dog on Two Stupid Dogs
I think Atari, as a brand name, could very well come back with a PSX2-competing product. They're a very well known brand name to Gen-Xers, who seem to have the most discretionary income to spend on these types of products.
My journal has hot
In related news, Microsoft announced today it was purchasing Sega, Atari, and the rights to Intellivision cartridges. This move was seen as an effort to bolster Microsoft's "Sky.net" project -- sending a single Terminator back in time to execute the makers of any video games other than Bungie's.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
Okay, perhaps this is a very obscure reference, but it IS related and not entirely offtopic.
First of all, what real evidence do we have that MS will indeed buy Sega? Gahhh...I should certainly hope not.
If anything, I think Sega should be open-sourced. Here's my take on it; it's rather limited to the comic book scene.
Archie Comics has a Sonic the Hedgehog lineup, almost to their 100th issue, with surprisingly in-depth storylines and a good deal of artistic talent. Sure, it's just Sonic and a bunch of furries fighting evil, but they look GOOD doing it! Archie's got some good writers working on the Sonic scene, but see, Sega has its OWN characters and agendas. Archie has had a hard time dealing with this as they attempt to make their storylines more involved--Sega demands that Sonic retain a cool and spunky attitude, and he's too "cool" to be involved in any emotional issues that are at the core of developing a fictional character. So it's very hard for Archie to develop personalities and "nail down" the characters...because of this issue.
If Micros~1 bought Sega, this would likely get even worse. We all know how Microsoft is about licensing. They'd probably demand death scenes of all characters other than those exclusively designed by Sega and put in the games, and a very decent comic title would die out due to lack of readership. Then Sonic and the remaining four or five characters would begin resembling paperclips. They'd lose what little personality they had entirely. And they'd all zoom around quickly correcting spelling mistakes you don't want corrected. At least once a day you'd get a blue (blur) screen. Robotnik would probably be the only remaining character. They'd change his name to Ro-bill-nik, or Redmondnik, or something like that. And Sega and Microsoft would jointly create a new character, Panic the Penguin, with his leagues of evil penguins, whom Ro-Gates-Nik would have to go around converting to his purposes....
No? Okay. Well, I'm done now.
Angry IT woman in big clompy boots. And talking lint!.
Really, all this Salon article says is that making consoles is a money-losing business in the short term (which we all knew already) and a whole bunch of speculation about Sega and Microsoft and whatnot. I'm waiting for facts, not what ifs.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
They will be sold to a guy and his son. These two will try to reshape Sega into a home computer company. They will send the company spiraling downward, and eventually sell out to a hard disk manufacturer. The HD manufacturer will sit on the Sega name for about a year, and then sell the "home system" name to Hasbro.
Aside from rights to a few popular game characters, M$ doesn't really have much to gain from buying Sega. Making a new console system doesn't exactly involve top secret technology, and M$ has already been working on their own for a while. Sega has some industry experience, but obviously it doesn't have the answer to succeding in the console system market. All they will inherit from sega besides a few characters is a company already in the red with an obsolete console system on the market. It's not really a lucrative gain. Perhaps they feel that a popular character can carry a platform. That's not really the case. Mario games or Sonic games that seem to debut with Sega/Nintendo systems are actually fun games. The fact that they feature a specific character helps, but in the end, game quality tends to carry a system further than a well-known face. (and please don't bring pokemon into this. They are crappy games that carry the gameboy now, but that is a different category. That is a kiddy craze. Sonic & co. are not.)
Perhaps there is something I just don't get about the possible deal. Feel free to inform me of anything I have overlooked/interpreted incorrectly.
Trying is the first step toward failure. - Homer Simpson
What are they doing at Sega? Burning money? I bought a Dreamcast the first day they came out. I now own about 30 Dreamcast titles - I've easily sunk over $1500 in the system. And I LOVE IT. It is by far and away the best gaming system I've ever used. I used to play Quake competitively on a PC - now I play it on Dreamcast, with a keyboard and mouse, and it's SOOO much nicer. I run BSD on my Dreamcast.
The game availability is as vast as it is amazing. The PS2 is a year late, has like 10 titles, and no hardware anti-aliasing... and from what I've seen of the graphics, they're far from a generation ahead of dreamcast.
Am I missing something here? Millions of units sold, piles of great titles, terriffic hardware, no CSS or Rambus inside (gag)... HOW IS SEGA LOSING MONEY?
Is their CEO gambling? Are the engineers smoking crack wrapped in $100 bills? What's the deal here?
If Microsoft buys Sega I'm going to cry.
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
I think the difference here, however, is that Sega is still making great games (and I believe hold at least 6 of the top 10 current arcade game spots), while Atari was making...well...crap. So far, ignoring economic losses, Sega has moved into second position, passing up the N64 in sales. It's had a number of #1 selling titles as of late (NFL2K1, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, etc), and seems on its way up. I think it's a bit premature to count Sega out yet, especially since said announcement about developing for other systems was not about the PS2, GameCube or X-box, but about various PDA's, cell phones, and the PC.
Why do these articles keep getting posted to the front page? We've probably had about 4 or 5 in the last few days, each retracting parts of the earlier ones. Some people might be interested in the latest misinformation concerning the sega saga, but post it directly into the game section. Then maybe you wouldn't get 900 "this article sucks" posts.
Sega are continuing to support the Dreamcast while there is money to be made (and at the moment, there isn't, but there are still a number of quality titles on the cards and a large user base). They are putting more money into R&D (meaning new coinop stuff as well as porting to other platforms). They are still the third largest console manufacturer, after Sony and Nintendo.
Oh, and for the myopic ppl claiming the PS2 is going to conquer all : one, it's already dated hardware, two, it's overpriced, three, there are _NO_ decent games for it yet, four, the xbox and gamecube are going to eat it for breakfast. Oh yeah, and it doesn't even have a modem !
It's the future of gaming you know. (Snuck)
Here's to Christmas 2001, and playing fantastic Sega games on the platform of my choice.
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