H1 B's Get To Change Jobs More Freely

merigold77 writes "Business2.com reports in H1-Bs on the Move that the bill allowing 80,000 new H1-B workers includes "significant new freedoms for the workers themselves. In the interests of reducing the role of the INS in these workers' careers, the bill includes a 'portability provision' that makes it easier for H-1B workers to switch companies without having to wait for INS approval.""

Comments

This doesn't help

[Apotsy]

Who cares if you can get INS approval quicker? That's not the reason why H1-Bs typically can't change jobs. The reason is that most H1-B workers are also applying for a green card, which is sponsored by their employer. Once the employer begins the green card process, they have the worker by the balls. They can freeze the salary, triple the workload, and do all sorts of other crap, and the employee just has to put up with it until the green card comes through. And the way the green card process works right now, the employer can (and will) stretch it out for a long time.

What's really needed is to streamline the green card process. Put a stop to the indentured servitude, give the workers green cards, and let them actually participate in this "free market" that I keep hearing about...

other changes--but how will they ever catch up?

[q000921]

The increased portability of H1B's is nice, although I think portability was never such a big problem.

But the bill fixes some other problems that perhaps were much more serious. For example, H1B holders used to lose their job and had to leave the country if the INS didn't manage to process their greencard applications in a timely manner (even just getting an already approved green card issued now can take nearly 3 years). It also allows many greencard applicants to change jobs while the INS is sitting on those applications.

The problem with it all is that the new bill creates even more paperwork for the INS to handle: new H1B visas, new forms, new applications. If they couldn't handle the old volume of paperwork, how are they going to deal with this?

We've been through this already, haven't we?

[BluedemonX]

Once again we're going to have three factions clashing. Faction ONE is going to be older workers who are ticked that they aren't making $300,000 a year anymore programming in COBOL and who can't find jobs compared to the young uns, pleading to keep furners out so they can git thuh jobs. Faction TWO is going to be people from outside the USA (myself included, being Canadian) who will tell you how brutally difficult the whole process is for people, and Faction THREE is going to be people who think applying for a green card is like applying for a driver's licence.

Linus Torvalds is stuck behind red tape. Many a talented worker is stuck behind red tape. This may or may not be a bonus, because the motivation of MANY on H-1s is to become Green Card holders, whereas many believe temporary means temporary.

If we're going to have a discussion about this, please put your own personal agendas as to whether these furners should be here or not aside and discuss what this actually means to some of the readership here.

Yes Immigrant Jail"!!

[www.sorehands.com]

Your forgot one thing!!! Contracts!!!!p> Many companies require you to sign an agreement that they will not leave for X years or have to pay $$ to leave.

Just like a company requiring reimbursement of the moving expenses that they paid out, if you leave before one or two years.

Re:Yes Immigrant Jail"!!

[The Mayor]

This depends heavily upon the state. Texas, for instance, is a Right to Work state. This means you can leave your job at any time and go work for a competitor. It also means your employer can fire you with little reason. However, employment contracts like this are not legally enforcible in Texas.

Now, if the company pays your moving expenses, which can be quite significant if you're coming from overseas, you can be required to repay your moving expenses. But you certainly won't go to "Immigrant Jail".

Green card applicants?

[Malc]

Anybody know if this affects H1 visa holders who are applying for green cards? Or, are these people still tied to one job for 3 or more years?

I am an H1B worker and...

[LunarOne]

I don't consider myself a wage slave. I am the highest paid programmer in the company I work for, and the only immigrant on the payroll.

Our workload outpaces our resources, and if my company could find more programmers like me locally they would hire them and these would join me at the top of the payroll heap. There are plenty of bright kids and what some like to call advanced hobbyists out there, but when you need 5-10 years experience, you pay for it when you can get it, even if it means importing.

I can tell you, moving from Canada to the U.S. has not been all it was cracked up to be. With stars in my eyes, I sold my home and moved my family to a U.S. city to work for better pay. Despite receiving better pay, the reward hasn't been necessarily financial. Among other things, I quickly found that to live in a good neighborhood with good schools, I would have to spend more real estate dollars than where I came from. I have had to re-establish credit. My wife can't work if she wanted to. I have been on a temporary visa for 4 years wondering if the holy grail (green card) will ever arrive. What a feeling - everything is temporary?! The list goes on and on, not to mention the xenophobic fear mongering in tv ads and on the internet ;)

The positives about moving to the U.S. have been quite unexpected: we've met some of the best friends anyone could have, and have put down some pretty good roots here. I hope we do one day get our permanent residency here, and can feel like we truly belong. I hope I don't have to sell all my belongings, and pack up my family with my tail between my legs and go back to Canada. I've gambled a lot, and for the first time in my life know the fear and apprehension an immigrant feels.

The ironic part is that with the explosion of the internet, it matters much less where I live than when I first hired in 4 years ago. Today, I could take a somewhat reduced role with my employer and live anywhere that I could find good bandwith, including another country.

Good move - now fix green cards

[rhysweatherley]

As a former H1-B, who got trapped at a company too long, it's about time they improved job portability. I eventually said "stuff it" and went home to Australia.

The next thing they need to fix is the green card process. Having the employer sponsor the application is bad news. There's no incentive for the employer to fast-track the application, because they lose the person faster. There's no incentive for the employer's lawyer to fast-track the application, because they'll get paid more for delay.

The green card process should be solely between the INS and the H1-B holder. If a person can prove that someone will hire them on a H1-B, why do they need to prove again that they'll be employable with a green card?

I like the provision to limit INS stuff to six months, but you have to get it to the INS first. That's where the employer and their lawyer can slow things down. I went for 1.5 years before the damn lawyer submitted the green card paperwork, because of nit-picking on things he already had but lost.

One thing's for sure - they won't fool me a second time. The whole process will need to be fixed first, including the green card, before I set foot in the US again.

File a complaint....?

[Malc]

Did you get the name of the person who gave you that information? I wonder if filing an I-847 is relevant.

Re:There are other ways

[Apotsy]

That's an urban legend. H1B visa holders are paid reasonable wages.

Bullshit. It's not an "urban legend", it is a documented fact.

Give me your poor, your hungry, ...

[jbischof]

What is the big deal with these immigration laws that cause people to get all riled up?? I think this is a great bill, I personally know a lot of people without US citizenship that are very technically savy, (at least more than I am), programmers and engineers or whatnot. This will allow them to contribute to our economy and anyone who is contributing is good. Besides we are the cultural melting pot so we should take everyone.

We are too greedy with our resources as it is (some statistic about how much the average american spends/uses vs avg Asian). I say let them switch jobs, make us americans work harder, its not a free world, isnt that the idea of capitalism??

Good for them, good for us.

[plimsoll]

I'm glad these former wage slaves can shop around the job market now, because I'd hate to have to compete against an equally qualified person who has fewer working rights than I do.

On a different note, I'd rather shoot myself in the face than have to hear another unemployed 40-something engineer's sob story about being booted in favor of inexperienced kids (like me) or cheap intentured servants, er... H1's. Now the whiners will have one less excuse.

Seriously though- maybe this will help out the obvious age bias that older programmers (percieved as past their prime & too set in their ways) experience every day. Or not, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Re:What does it mean exactly?

[VP]

There are actually several provisions in the law which deal with the whole process from getting an H1B visa to getting a green card (if that is one's ultimate goal). One of them is as you state:
...the "portability provision" means that you can move to a new H1B job when the papers are submitted to INS, not when they finally have approved them.

Another one answers your second question:
Does it affect at all that in order to get a green card you need to stay at the same company for the full (3-6 years) INS processing time?

The answer is "yes" - if you have to wait more than 6 months (180 days) for your green card after your initial I-140 approval, you can switch employers as long as the jobs are similar. With the current dates, this means that after no more than about two years after you first file paperwork for a green card, you could be able to change employers (this varies by geographical region a lot - in some places it can be year and a half). Another provision, that will help a lot of Indians and Chinese, is the "spill-over" of unused green cards at the end of each fiscal year to countries with backlogged priority dates.

Sounds good, doesn't it? Now, why did you have to ask this, then:
When does it go into effect?

Theoretically - October 17, when Bill Clinton signed it. In practice - when the INS publishes the regulations for implementing the law. My estimate - mid 2002. Sorry...

Re:About time!

[Zagadka]

H1B's can now leave their jobs for better paying ones, or jobs with a better work environment.

This will force H1B loving companies into competing fairly for their employees (including H1B's).

While I think the new legislation is great (guess who just switched jobs), it isn't quite enough to make things fair for all H1B holders. Most (or at least a very large fraction of) H1B holders also apply for a greencard. If you switch jobs during the 4-5 years of the greencard process, your entire application is nullified.

That doesn't affect me, personally. I'm fairly certain I'll be staying with my new employer well beyond getting my greencard. There are many other who are essentially stuck with their current employer for at least a few years because of this. That can result in employers giving far less compensation to, or requiring far more work from, employees who are in the greencard application process. This harms not only foreign workers, but also American workers. It harms American workers because it gives some employers an incentive to choose foreign workers rather than Americans.

unenforcable?

[www.sorehands.com]

Really?

Do you have any cites on this?

this is excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

once h1-b's become job shoppers, the real need -- a so-called labor shortage -- is addressed, while competition continues to keep salaries aloft. Great kick in the pants for big business!

Why not train more Americans?

[daveman_1]

Sorry folks, it seems that companies would much rather hire someone that they can treat poorly because they are practically a slave than to train an American employee to perform the same task.(Who knows, that American employee just might leave if we treat them badly.) I think making it easier for H1B's to switch jobs is a step in the right direction, but still, why not just train an American to fill the role of an American job? I know plenty of skilled technical people who would love to get some additional training on their resumes. The payoff for the employer is a more skilled employee. This is very simple. It just really seems that many employers prefer having their own brand of slaves and our government lets them get away with it.

About time!

[Tackhead]

What's particularly interesting is that Congress has now stated (in the "it is the sense of Congress that" sense of the word, not with actual dollars) that no transaction with INS ought to take more than six months.

It's a start - a small start, but an important one - towards reforming the INS bureaucracy that's put countless lives on hold for years.

And as for the H-1B bill being about "cheap labor", IMHO that's FUD. If you can't find the skills locally, you go abroad. Although there are companies that abuse the H-1B programme, the vast majority of companies that take advantage of it give their employees a fair shake -- and the reality is that if you're an employee who wants to join the US and get your Green Card, an H-1B is a damn good way to get your foot in the door.

The only thing I question is this: Why is this on /. today? The law (originally bill S.2045) passed both houses weeks ago. Its provisions are hardly news.

Re:About time!

[Mr_Icon]

What's particularly interesting is that Congress has now stated (in the "it is the sense of Congress that" sense of the word, not with actual dollars) that no transaction with INS ought to take more than six months.

You might think it's funny, but it's not! I'm an H1-B worker and I went home in August to visit my family (I'm Russian). Before I left, I called the INS and asked them which papers I needed to get a visa and re-enter the country. Well, he said that all I needed were just two pieces of paper which I already had. So, I left.

Unfortunately, I was misinformed by the INS -- I needed a whole bunch of other papers to get a visa to re-enter the country. (Just to clarify -- I was a student first and my H1-B status came through when I was in US on a student status, so I never had to get an H1-B visa per se prior to my August leave). One of the papers, a form I-129, which is original "Foreign worker" petition, was not on file with my employer, so they had to file a form with the INS to send them a copy of it. It's now November and we're still waiting for INS to send just a simple copy of a paper. No effort -- just find my file, and fax the document. We did get their receipt late in August, stating that we should be waiting for a reply within 80-120 days. 3 to 4 months to get a copy of a document! Absurd!

So, I'm stuck. Thankfully, my employer didn't terminate my job (which they could!) and I can still admin my servers via the Interet (which costs per minute here).

This ain't funny. I understand the waits when some decision-making is required, but heck -- just fax the friggin' paper!

they'll regret it .. larry et al will

[josepha48]

I know some people who came to the US from India and other countries. Alot of times they get here they get a job and just like any of us they are not happy in the job or they find a better opportunity. Many of them take the pay that they do because it gets them over here and if they can save up the money then take it back to there country they are much better off. One guy I knew was saving up with his fater and brother and uncles and when they reach there goal they are all leaving the us. By passing this little h1b thing, they will be able to change jobs more freely and thus increase there salary as well. not that I blame them, it is good for all those that are coming over here. I think though that all those that think that this is a great thing to get 'cheap labor' from other countries are in for a big suprise.

I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!

There are other ways

[jjr]

To keep a H1B employee there if an employeer pays for there visa which can cost about $2,500 they can bond them basicly saying since I paid for your to work visa you have to work here for X amount of years. I has a friend who went through this. But I am glad to see it is making it easier for foreign workers to move from job to job.