Slashdot Mirror
Keyless Keyboard
Nos. writes: "Keybowl has developed a keyless keyboard. Instead of using your fingers, as we're all used to, you use your hands and arms while reducing wrist motion. According to their research it suggests this is much better at reducing repetitive strain injuries as well as being easier to use for disabled persons. I'd be happy just knowing I couldn't drop any more crumbs between the keys!" As an official keyboard fanatic / inquisitor, I like to see unusual ideas like this. As it is, keyboards can mostly be pegged something from "horrible" to "terrible." Also, check out the comparison page at this site, which has a fairly non-judgmental rundown of many of the other ergonomic keyboards out there, from Kinesis to Bat.
So if this thing becomes popular, and it creates a keystroke by combining one position from each hand, I'd have to assume you can only type one keystroke at a time... Now this almost instantly makes it worthless for Windows users, seeing as a certain three keys are required to be pressed at the same time quite often :)
I therefore suggest they call it a breast board, since that is what it most closely resembles.
Hmmm. And I can see that they may want to release different sizes for different hands. You know, sizes "A" through "DDD".
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Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Every time a keyboard-related story comes up, someone has to bring up the old ibm mechanical keyswitch keyboards. I guess it's me this time.
I used to have one from an old ibm AT - you know, the type with f1-f10 on the side (missing f11 & f12 - annoying every once in awhile.) Some guy in the wealthy section of town tossed it out on the curb on "massive garbage pick-up day" and I swooped down on it. Beautiful device. It had a *metal* backing and must have massed 5 kilos. The grad students with whom I shared an office thought I was a crazy computer nut because of the incessant clicking. Well, that or a secret agent of invading alien locusts, grinding my mandibles in evil anticipation of succulent human flesh. Maybe that's why they never talked to me...
Eventually I picked up a couple of newer ibm keyboards (101 key model M's) at a surplus sale to replace it, since the lack of f11 & f12 caused problems. They don't have the metal backing, but they still have the "click" feel. Another plus is the fact that the keyboard cable plugs into the back and is therefore interchangeable with one of greater length. 9-foot keyboard cables are your friend. Put that server and its howling fans far, far away from your ears.
I even have a couple of ibm keyboards I rescued off a pair of terminals. They look almost exactly like the 101 key PC ones, but they have 24 function keys and a connector which most closely resembles the AT keyboard connector, but with the pins spaced a bit differently. I've been meaning to try and interface them to my PC. (Clicky keys + 12 extra function keys...I could map out half of my most frequently-used apps to function keys!)
Anybody know anything more about these keyboards?
Part# 1386887, model M, appear to date back to 1986.
As it is, I dream of having a ergonomic keyboard WITH mechanical keyswitches, but I don't know anyone who makes such.
zeke
I was talking with my brother recently about the social problems something like that would cause.
It would be really cool, I agree, but how far is too far, in terms of realism?
Eventually, we will make something like that, which can interface directly with the human conciousness. What happens to love, and sadness, and depression, and death then?
If you can die because of things in the virtual world and how they affect your brain, should we allow that to happen? How can we deal with concepts like, falling in love with something in the virtual world, or being so tramuatized by a virtual event, that one can no longer function normally.
Fascinating stuff...
Google's cache.
Damn slashdot effect.
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
For those that haven't seen it, this thing has a base shaped kinda like a Microsoft Natural Keyboard, but instead of keys, it's got a dome-looking articulation for each hand. The "domes" are moved in an x-y axis independently of each other. Moving the "domes" in combinations of positions correspond to the alpha-numeric key symbols as on a conventional keyboard.
It looks like a lot to have to re-learn to me.
I saw this on a site by the National Science Foundation. They were running a story on a new keyboard where ergonomics was the central design idea.
Guyote was here.....
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Americans are bred for stupidity.
You can always try the poor man's cache. While it doesn't have the pictures (which is unfortunate), Google caches it.
I loved the old heavy keyboards on the Indy machines, but not the newer ones on the o2's. Those old heavies were awesome - all the solid durability of the IBM clickity-clack keyboards, but with a smooth feel instead of the annoying sound. There's a couple of old Indy's at work that hardly get used anymore, and I can tell you the temptation to swipe those keyboards is really strong.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
The problem with virtual glove keyboards is that you can't *feel* the keys, which means you can't type fast with tactile feedback. This is also why those touch-screen controls featured in Star Trek Next Generation will never replace keyboards either. You have to look at the screen to type.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
This device is patented already.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
http://www.keybowl.com/support/training.htm
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
...had a keyless keyboad too.. and that was almost 20 years ago.
'Course it was living hell to type on too. Membrane "keys" and all that...
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
So if it's a keyless keyboard, this means...
Ye Gods, they've invented the BOARD!
Can you imagine the lame jokes that are going to show up on this article?
-Denor
I wonder if anyone has considered using a miniaturized version of this for data entry on handhelds?
If you can use your hands to type with combinations of two 8-way keys, why not do the same things with just your thumbs? (besides RSI)
Something like this could make a lot more sense than current input methods... no stylus to lose, etc.
-------------------- the list is long. dirac angestung gesept
Since the site has been /. I'll copy/paste their description on how it works.
The Keybowl(TM) is made of two domes upon which the hands comfortably rest. One of the domes is called a "selector dome" and is used to activate the other dome, the "character dome."
It may be helpful to think of these dome movements in a compass arrangement: N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW. Each dome is capable of sliding into the same eight compass directions.
The Keybowl(TM) typist creates a keystroke by combining the positions of the two domes. He or she chooses a position on the "selector dome" and then types the letter with the "character dome" by sliding it in the direction of the letter or character he or she wishes to type.
It may sound a little complicated, but it's easy to use. With very little training, Keybowl(TM) typists achieve a speed very close to the one at which they used to type before their injuries.
Since the site is /.'ed (and google's cache isn't helpful with no pictures) I don't know what this looks like - but what I've been wanting is something small enough to walk around with and to use easily on wireless devices. We've got to be headed in that direction - conventional keyboards are just way to big for the next generation of computer interfaces - maybe a chorded keyboard of some sort coupled with a mouse pointing device all bundled into one small package makes most sense?
Energy: time to change the picture.
I'm using a Data Hand keyboard. I would recommend it, because it really does exercise your fingers in various directions which gets rid of RSI. It's quite easy to learn, unlike chord keyboards, and the design overall is quite practical. Disadvantages are price, that it's fairly bulky and that the mouse is operated with the keys (which isn't that bad actually, but one does find oneself reaching for the mouse as well occasionally.) Would probably rate it best overall for practicality and anti-rsi ability, but not perfect.
http://cbc.ca/gfx/photos/keyboard_ergonom001108.jp g
The thing looks more like two giant selector dials connected together.
Cheers,
-j.
homepage
Research
Products
Ergonomics
Their keyboard comparison comes from information taken from www.keyalt.com.
keyless keyboard...
This that anything like a bandwithless server?
AdFuel
From the descriptions it sounds as if one can't press multiple keys at once. How do I press [Ctrl] + [Alt] + [BackSpace]?
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I don't know about you, but I still prefer the feel of actual keys. It will take a LOT of adjustment to bound on a flat mat, which provides no feedback at all.
And that's the real problem, feedback. Suddenly, you can't type without looking at the screen, because you can't be certain if you hit the key. Now hunt-and-peck typers will double their time typing, since now they have to look at the screen after every peck.
The same thing happened when HP introduced the 49G graphic calculator, with rubberized keys that have no tactile feedback. While I think it's a great calculator, they really blew it by cheapening the keyboard. The old keyboards had substance--you knew when you hit the keys, even if you weren't paying attention. Now, when I use the 49G, I have to double-check everything I enter.
But not only the uncertainty of hitting keys, there's something deeper that comes along with getting no feedback. I can't pinpoint it, but things just feel wrong when you can't feel the keys going down.
I'm sure some people might like this. I can't actually see the keyboard, because of the Slashdot effect, but I would imagine it's flexible, and if not, it should be. If it isn't flexible, there's no point in using it. The flexibility might appeal to travelers--roll up a full-sized keyboard for your laptop, and jam it in a suitcase.
I really love my keyboard, a six-year-old job that came with a Compaq Presario CDS 526 (that's one of those all-in-one models). No Windows keys, it's not an "internet" keyboard (what the hell is that anyway?), nothing cheesed up. Just 101 keys, using capacitive (or inductive) key detection, and little rubber cups under the keys, to give them resistance that results in a little (barely detectable) "pop" when the key finally gives up all resistance and goes down. It just feels good. And you know it's a quality product (can we say that about Compaq anymore?), since it's spent 4+ years in service, and 2 years in a musty basement, and it still functions perfectly.
Sometimes I'd like a real tactile keyboard, the ones that click, but I don't know where to find those anymore. I actually have one in my basement, but many years ago I spilled a plastic bonding agent on the keys, and while the board still functions, the keys are all grimy.
Flat panel displays, DVD, gigabit ethernet--those are the real advances in computing. Contrary to the poster, I feel that keyboards are great--if they're older, when quality meant something. Making them keyless just estranges things even more.
Thank you.
I do not belong in the spam.redirect.de domain.
Interested parties wishing to save the resource-challenged people at Keybowl a hard time might try some of the following URLs:
s ets/228347/p86-mcalindon/p86-mcalindon.pdf
. jpg
A PDF File about the Keybowl
http://www.acm.org/pubs/articles/proceedings/as
A mirrored copy of an image of the thing
http://www.brandeis.edu/~ekendall/large_keybowl
...to grab some more info for you people... directly copy paste from their site.
"The Keyboard that will Change the World."
The Keybowl[tm] keyboard offers much greater flexibility in meeting the needs of its users. For
the first time, anyone who types has the ability to adjust a keyboard to suit their own requirements.
The Keybowl[tm] is . . . Your key to a higher quality of life and pain-free productivity!
o Totally eliminates finger movement
o Minimizes wrist movement
o Easy to learn
o A solution to carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) as it relates to typing.
o Allows people with upper extremity disabilities to effectively type, interact with, and navigate with little or no pain.
Because the Keybowl[tm] offers great flexibility in accommodating any user who wishes to type, some users type at much greater speeds than when they use a flat or traditional keyboard. The most researched keyboard. Visit our ergonomic research section to learn about the development of the Keybowl[tm].
Visit my website xpenguin.com -- A linux penguin website
Windows: the OS-less OS.
Instead of wasting all their time on 'the board' they should put all their efforts in creating a better voice-interface, the best keyless keyboard you can imagine.
I'm still waiting for the they when I can say to my computer:"Computer, moderate this lowsy reply DOWN"
Mark
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- if you love something, set it free; if it doesn't come back, hunt it down and kill it
Hey what about.....
Caps-Lock on, Caps-Lock off
i found some information about the keybowl. this is actually a very interesting device. the following pdf has lots of information about how it works, and also includes some sketches.
http://www.c-60.org/keybowl.pdf
"For years [things] had been operated by means of pressing buttons... then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made [hand] sensitive - you merely had to [move] the panels your [hands]; now all you had to do is merely wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope."
Modified from that grand ol' book,
The Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy by Douglas Adams
...non-judgmental rundown of many of the other ergonomic keyboards out there, from Kinesis to Bat
All the others have been made by microsoft =p
damn straight... any how many geeks are actually interested in consumer grade input devices?
This kind of setup would *rock* for Quake and FPS!
Can you imagine remapping it for gameplay?
Left hand controls direction movement; strafe left/right, move forward/backward
Right hand would be aiming; turn left/right, aim up/down
Or you could do the meta control, I guess;
If you could match this with a decent set of pedals; pedals would do forward/backward, left hand would be strafe left/right and 2 meta controls(weapon switching and jump/crouch?) while right hand would be freelook|weapon select/mode|jump/swim/crouch/duck/fly?
The nick is a joke! Really!
GPL Deconstructed
I don't think (TM) is part of the name :)
Hammer of Truth
Just imagine, every time you push either of the hemispheres to one of the cardinal points, you get a different musical tone. After a few weeks of using this thing, you'd know immediately if you hit the wrong key because you would get a wrong beep-boop sound.
I like it.
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
Oh my God. You /.ed Google
You Bastard
How can I use encryption then if I can't shift my home-row fingers over one key?
;sihj oyd s kplr
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I wear pants.
That's why you should always post and then read the article.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Why not a mouseless mousepad, or a car that doesnt move? Technology is often annoying complex...
I am !amused.
The point of this keyboard is not to look or feel anything like a keyboard...in fact, not only is it keyless, you don't "type" on it.
;).
It has two domes which can move into any of 8 positions each. You move the domes in combinations in order to type a key.
So, if you had waited until you could read/see about the keybowl, you wouldn't even have posted this. And if the moderators had, it wouldn't be (Score: 3, Insightful).
Not saying you're not making valid points (I like keyboards too), they just don't have anything to do with the story at hand
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
There are a lot of very nice ergonomic keyboards out there right now. IMHO it is a much better interface than, say, the mouse (having just switched to larswm, I barely use my mouse at all now)
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
jdube is who
You'll pry my Sun type 5 from my cold dead hands (besides, it kinda goes with the Ultra).
with 16K!!
The Atari400 actually had:
- keyless keyboard
- quiet, lowpower, fanless CPU
- interchangable ROM Memory Cards
- TV OUT !!
- built in sound, and advanced sound processor
- A Universal Serial bus that could be daisy chained and connect devices like Floppy Drives Tape backup, Printers and Modems.
If a company puts up a web page to publicize a new product, they should be prepared for the possibility that they will actually succeed!
__________________
My question is not whether it is right for slashdot to mirror websites, but whether it is right for them no to!
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I challenge the notion that the mouse is the end-all, be-all of FPS control.
Moving an arbitrary object a precise amount to control a character on screen with no real relation to the mouse is terrrible, from an intuitive point of view. Moving this little thing around a tiny space, and having to fine-tune just how little i move it, is a pain in the ass to learn.
Someone will come up with a better controller...the mouse is just too inconvenient.
Mouseless mouse?
"I have not failed. I've simply found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Edison
- 1. Remove keyboard case
- 2. Remove keys
- 3. Touch the wires printed on the membrane where the keys used to touch
Simple. I have too many spare keyboards to screw with.Well, this would prevent the character in Gattaca from having to vacuum bits of his DNA out from the crevices of the keyboard. I will never use this because I crave the dramatic clickety-clack typewriter noise..
Goat sex free since 2001
mice wont have buttons too... oh wait Imac people already did that...
Visit my website xpenguin.com -- A linux penguin website
Ahh, for once, all the flailing arms seen around the office will not be from frustration...