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Hacking The City
Luddite Joe writes: "All you geeks should feel empowered and important after reading this story at Stating the Obvious about the young IPO rich changing the world. The example focused on is Jamie Zawinski, former Netscape coder turned critic. Although the guy's just opening a nightclub, stick with the article for the point."
The article says Jamie was 29 on April Fools Day 1999, but now he's 32?
Did we slip through some cosmic wormhole while I was on the sauce last night???
Relax. Calm down. The world's not out to get you. And you might want to stop hating people with money before you turn into one of them, because otherwise you're going to air-condition your skull before you turn 30.
lovely turn of phrase. Com2kid is obviously VERY tense about something. I wonder how old he is, and what kind of education? The only time I see that kind of rhetoric is skinhead groups and elections.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
It should read, "All you geeks who got incredibly rich from IPO dollars should feel empowered and important after reading this..."
/. management.
We apologize for this minor typo, and hope that this doesn't make any of you little people feel bad when you think of us slashdot people throwing big wads of Andover cash at each other.
We were like you once, before God recognized his Chosen people and raised us above the slime. You should be thankful that you don't have to deal with the terrible problem of what to do once you're rich beyond having to work. This man was one of the lucky ones, who learned that he could still make a difference in the world by selling an addictive intoxicant, and wasn't bound to a hopeless life of doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted.
Sincerely,
The
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They used up their opportunities by wasting their minds away on drugs.
:)
So now you're God, able to pass judgment on who's worthy and who's not? God at least has the common decency not to judge anyone until the Last Day.
(For the record, my references to religion are meant to be metaphorical; introducing issues of religious belief here would just make an incendiary discussion worse.)
There are not enough natural resources to go around to waste on the drug users in society.
And they might say there aren't enough natural resources in society to go around to waste on self-loathing teenagers. Who gets to decide who's right?
The answer is: the economy. Economics is the study of choice and resource allocation. If you have money, you get to decide how resources are allocated. If you don't, then you still get to decide how resources are allocated--you just decide fewer resources.
It's not a very fair system, I'll admit. Still, it's the best one we've got. As Winston Churchill said, "The inherent vice of capitalism is its unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is its equal sharing of miseries."
Hmm, thats an intresting [sic] logic. If A is True [sic] then B is True [sic]. Also [the] opposite of B is true. Applying your magical theory of logic; Because not murdering is good, murdering is also good.
Not quite. Murder isn't an emotional state. Most extreme emotional states are really just two sides of the same coin. If you can't love someone, then at least hate them, because that shows they still mean something to you. That's why I still hold out some hope for you; okay, sure, you hate the rich and want to kill them. By extension, you hate me and want to kill me, since I'm an engineer working on wickedly-cool software and get paid somewhere between insanely and ludicrously. That's okay; I hope you'll come around and realize your hatred's misplaced, and pretty foolish.
Far better you hate than you feel nothing, though.
"The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. The opposite of good is not evil, it is apathy." (Elie Wiesel)
Anybody who interupts [sic] are [sic] otherwise interfears [sic] with education deservers [sic] to die. This includes [Republicans], middle mangement, [sic] and bean counters.
Hmm. I'm a Republican who voted for Bush, who a few months ago made a large donation to a school district so that poor kids could have notebooks and pencils for the upcoming school year. I volunteer at the local school as an assistant coach with the Academic Decathlon program, and mentor a couple of young geeks who are looking to grow Strong in the Ways of the Code. You also can't say I'm an exception--because the instant you do, I'll rattle off a list of my Republican friends and co-workers who do the exact same or similar things.
Strangely, this is more than many Democrats have done. Yet you don't see me harping that Republicans favor education and Democrats are do-nothings. What you're railing against here is your perception of the human condition, which is something which knows no political party. You'll find heroes and villains in any party at any time.
Oddly enough, all three of [these] tend to be either middle or upper class, what a coincidence.
Upper-class, Republican, voted for Bush. Also a reasonably nice guy, I think, given that I'm talking in a friendly fashion to a kid who says, over and over again, how much he hates me and wants to kill me.
Of course the fact that the middle and upper clase [sic] are some of the most hard heading [sic] stubborn short sited, [sic] addle minded people in existence also doesn't speak well for their existence.
Who's the addle-brained, hard-headed, stubborn person here--the Republican who volunteers his time at the local schools, donated to John McCain's political campaign, mentors young geeks... or the kid who hates people he doesn't even know, for offenses they've never even committed?
Will the next xscreensaver have a "nightclub" hack in it ?
Will JWZ port xscreensaver on this thing to have real cool disco lights in his nightclub ?
:)
--
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
I'm a big fan of jwz's, but not for the reasons outlined in this article. The question I asked myself at the end was: how is this different to what most of us do?
I try, in my modest way, to hack great code and produce products that people use. But I also know that intelligence, nous and experience don't produce the fabulous wealth that this article alludes to.
Jwz is wealthy because he was lucky. He was also talented, savvy and sharp; but mostly he was lucky.
Unfortunately, this article was written because jwz was wealthy.
Maybe living in Australia and away from the ".com revolution" means I'm out of the loop, but I wish jwz luck with his club because of his ideals. It's great when your work and your ideals are in harmony.
But the article is still a beat-up.
Ben Tindale
http://www.jwz.org/doc/lemacs.html Note the URL. That's jwz's side of the story, with all the biases that implies.
Hear hear, I'll agree with that. I was mostly responding to his violent rhetoric. I have managed to pick up most of my material at the half-price book re-sellers. Full MCSE set $45.. C++ Bible, $15.... It's all there if you look for it. $100 a month for a highschool kid?? a university I could see.........
Dirty Pirate Hooker
these individuals have suddenly become imbued with omniscience because they are not only hackers, but rich hackers?
...and start issuing ultimatums to world governments!!
Insightfull comment. Why?
If we take the media image of the geek (someone who forgets to wash and shuns society), and then try to figure out what happens when they make $$$$, why the hell would we conclude that they will try to save the world?
Much more likely they will:
further shun society
buy a small Polynesian Island
build a huge laser gun
get the obligitary white cat
Install massive alarm/self-destruct system
MY GOD! Take their money away now!!
"I'm on the arse end side of the poverty line, yet I spend EVERY last cent I have on getting ahead in this world, and I have been doing so since i was five years old
Have you concidered getting out of the house once in a while?? are you retaining anything you read?? do you know what a girl is?? If you are reading that much, you should have been able to pick up a much better job by now. Don't give us any crap about no oportunities, its probly lack of motivation and spending all your time reading books instead of looing for work. Take a break for a few days/week and get outside. Talk to some people in person. Schmooze. Get some sun. You'll be dead before your a sucess otherwise.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
First off, this isn't flaimbait. I've baited before, and I'm being honest now.
SF has one of the best nightlife scenes in the US, if not the world. Only a _hacker_ who spends his time coding would not see it! I've been to many somewhat underground trance parties that have blown my mind. San Fransisco has a seething underground, and it's been there since the 60's, maybe before. The black clothing crowd may see a dwindling of nightlife, but it's still there people.
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
This most likely will be my last post to /. Anyone interested in having this slashdot account number can email me
Pulling away from society (or a culture) will not improve it. You can only change things if you are involved. So stay and post your opinion. Someone might just hear you.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
Oh give me a break.
Some opinionated rich kid hacker (good hacker, mind you) decides he'd rather have a cool club to invite all his friends too rather than a cool car to show off to all his friends in. And because of this he's changing the world? Or even changing the city?
Big deal. Apparently he thinks the only important thing is making sure young, rich hacker people JUST LIKE HIM have somewhere to go that fits into their oh so cool post-modern e-lifestyle.
Last I went to San Fran there seemed to be some other problems like the real large number of homeless people, the emtpy wastelands of (largely latino??) poor housing and freeways all around the edge of Palo Alto and a billion other things, all of which matter rather more than making sure that the San Fran rich kids scene is just as swell as it can be.
I wonder how much JWZ gives to charity each month....
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Opening a nightclub in a big city is different than coding software. Geeks shouldn't mess with the mafia. These guys will break your legs.
You're young, you're rich... Now what? It's a harder question than it looks. Zawinski's situation is endemic in San Francisco and Seattle and every other high-tech hub in the country. Literally thousands of Internet industry worker-bees, yet to see their thirtieth birthday, have ridden boom-time IPOs to instant, enormous wealth. And these twentysomething millionaires are suddenly faced with a question that most people only dream about: after the dust has settled, after you've grown bored or burned-out, after you walk away with more cash than you know what to do with... Now what?
Those poor, poor souls.
Having money forced on them by gullible investors, they now face the ennui that only material prosperity can bring. Fight on, brave ones, against the desolation of not having to work.
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A true hacker doesn't code for the corprate account he codes for himself. It's simple the reason i hack is to exercise my freedom to learn. The reason i code for work is to make money. Don't mix the two. I don't go to work so i can hack around. I go to get paid. I don't consider jamie's involvment in Netscape as hacking. His work in lisp yea but, coding for someone else is not hacking.
Time is Change.
"Simple, I *HATE* rich people, can't stand'em. Always throwing their money away into useless prusuits. Sheesh, if I had that kind of money, I'd go out and earn five or so Ph.D's, just for The Sake of Learning."
:)
Gee...you wouldn't like me then
So you hate rich people. Yeah, people like me are worrying sick over what some bum like you thinks. So I'm rich. Big deal. I don't give a flying fuck what you think. I worked hard to get to where I am today, and I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my labor as I see fit.
But I digress. I can't speak for the people out there who throw their moeny away into worthless ventures. I'd find better things to do with my money myself...but if they want to burn their money, let em. They earned it, they can spend it however they want. Some people may see your five doctorates as a waste of money too.
Here's my suggestion to you: quit yer bitching. You can bitch all you want about the rich people, but that isn't going to do you any good. I suggest you get off your ass and make something of yourself. Your fevered pursuit of education is a fine start, and I hope you go somewhere with it.
--
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The real Raunchola isn't cool enough to have any imposters
I live in Seattle. You're talking about Maria Cantwell, an ex VP from Real Networks. Yes, she spent $10-12 million on her campaing for Senate. Of course, the 20-some year Republican incumbant Slade Gorton spent the same amount. So who is at fault? Cantwell is a harmless Democrat and I voted for her. Slade "Skeletor" Gorton is evil man set on helping his fellow cronies. For example, he added a rider that allowed some Washington timber companies to log in protected forest (and these companies got paid by the state of Washington for their "stewardship"!) to a Senate bill for providing international relief aid to Kosovo. Who's the bitch now? Slade Gorton is the bitch.
cpeterso
By wasting money on frivolious expenses, the rich also judge who can live and who can die.
:) Good. You don't know me from the wind, brother, and if you think you do, you are mistaken.
.45 when it happened to me. But lo and behold, two years later, all the good parts are happening all over again.
;) Set your sights higher.
Yep. Life is tough. Wear a helmet.
That sounds callous, doesn't it? It's only because it's true. A friend of mine says that she would be a Wiccan, if only she felt that the Wiccan Rede was anything more than a pipe dream--"if it doesn't harm anyone, do what you want to do" is, in some ways, a very narrow view of the world.
Anything you do, anything you do, will condemn some and redeem others. The trick is doing what you can to make sure that, on balance, you help more than you hurt. But it's a given that anything you do will adversely affect another person.
Did you buy popcorn the last time you went to the movies? Couldn't that $6.00 have bought an entire week's food for a starving civilian in Chechnya? How dare you, indulge in a six-dollar bucket of popcorn while people are starving to death.
But if you don't buy that popcorn, and nobody else does, either (instead contributing to the Red Cross to help starving Chechens), then you put the guy behind the counter out of a job--and what if he's the breadwinner for the family, earning $7.00 an hour in a crappy job because that's the only thing he can get?
You see? Every choice you make will have positive and negative repercussions, repercussions far beyond the simple cause-and-effect that you think about.
In other words, your hatred is seriously misplaced, and not at all logical.
How about a self-loathing teenager who has plans on HELPING society. I am working my ass off to learn everything that I can so that I might contribute to society. Are you saying that my work deservers no more credit that the waste of a druggie?
Get over your self-hatred first before you go about trying to help anyone. Everyone wants peace on earth, but so few people ever try to find peace with themselves first.
Insofar as your plans to help others--big whup. When I was in high school I wasn't "planning" to help others; I was building homes with Habitat for Humanity. Just because you're in high school doesn't mean you can't do anything.
There are lots of people who say "'ere but for the vile guns of war, I'd been a soldier". The credit doesn't go to those people. The credit goes to those people who do it, not people who talk about how they plan to someday do it.
But first, get over your self-hatred.
Love is an animal instinct that is designed to force otherwise sapient beings to act like wild creatures. I do not believe if [sic] love, instead I prefer the path of logic and a life of discipline and rigorous study. Just as you oppose anything that stands in the way of you acquiring physical wealth and happiness (love, sex, money, power, etc.) I oppose anything that interferes with my acquisition of mental knowledge.
First--you have no idea what I want out of life.
We clear on that?
Second--I used to think like that. Then a 6'2", slim, attractive, long-legged German blonde came along and turned my world square on its head. (Gave me a permanent liking for tall women in the process, too...) Best thing that ever happened in my life, I tell you, was when I stopped feeling sorry for myself and learned how to let go a little bit. Most liberating thing in my life.
I've found that people who espouse cold and bitter pessimism are people who've never found anything better in life. Trust me; there are, if you only look for them.
Book learning is great, but--as Yogi Berra noted--while in theory there's no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is. Practice is better.
People fear apathy, because through apathy comes true objectivity,
No. Bzzt. Sorry. Thanks for playing. With apathy comes brutality, bitterness and evil. Objectivity coexists quite well with passion and ardor; it's what this wonderful thing called Science is built upon. The best scientists in the world are carefully and studiously objective, yes--but they are also some of the most deeply and fervently passionate men and women you'll ever hear of.
Read Dick Feynman's Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! for brilliant examples. If you think your objectivity comes anywhere close to Dick Feynman's, all I can say is--where's your Nobel Prize?
Read biographies of Niels Bohr. In addition to a Nobel, he also held an Olympic medal or two. He was passionate and fiery, and one of the sharpest minds of this century.
Look at Einstein's private letters to his wife; you'll see a Nobel prizewinner overcome with all sorts of dark passions.
Read Peter Duesenberg's theories on AIDS--keeping in mind that he's a seven-time CDC Exceptional Investigator--and the passionate firestorms that erupt from his critics.
Read about John Bardeen (two Nobels). Read about Linus Pauling (another two-time winner, in different fields). Read about Archimedes, the great grand-daddy of 'em all, who was killed by a Roman legionnaire after he screamed at the legionnaire to get out of his way, he was blocking the light he needed to see his equations.
Passion is alive and well in science, and not one single scientist I know--and I know a lot of them, from Paul C.W. Chu (a leading superconductivity researcher) to Bruce McCandless (astronaut) to Bruce Schneier (cryptographer)--would ever say that apathy leads to objectivity.
Love encourages us to only look at ourselves
No, that's lust. Love encourages us to look at the beloved, not ourselves. Love is the state where someone else's happiness becomes a major factor in your own happiness. Love is where you'll do anything to make her smile, because her smile puts a leap in your heart that nothing else approaches. Love is selfless; if you find yourself thinking about you, then whatever you feel isn't love.
And if you'd ever been in love, you'd know this already without being told.
My suggestion: don't condemn it until you've fallen in it. It really is a pretty cool thing, except when it all falls apart, and especially when it's nobody's fault.
Lawrence Block has a book out, Ticket to the Boneyard, in which the protagonist tells Sara "I didn't think it'd end like this--I always thought it'd work out, somehow." Sara has to break the news to him that it did work out, and this is how it worked out.
That sucks. That hurts. I almost blew my head off with a
These things really do work out.
Honestly, the chances of the human race dying out from under population are none
My NASA astrophysicist friends disagree with you. They're fairly of one mind that we need more population, orders of magnitude more population (on orders of magnitude more planets than we have now). At six billion people, we're not even a drop in the galactic bucket.
We're only overpopulated if you're willing to accept that we'll never leave Earth.
Don't talk to me about emotional states, I can switch emotional states at will, faster then most people can speak a syllable.
If that's the case, then you need professional help. Now. Because what you're talking about is called sociopathy, and brother, it ain't good. The only people who can turn their emotions on and off at will are sociopaths, and I don't want any of them in my neighborhood.
Anyways, he happens to be a resonably nice guy who has royaly [sic] screwed up [Texas's] education. I know, I have spoken with students from [Texas], they say that the schools down there are horrific [sic].
Strange. I graduated from high school with a four-year full-ride National Merit Scholarship to the University of Houston, where my tuition was fully paid for by the State of Texas. Apparently they did a pretty good job of educating me, because I've got a good job today, the respect of my professional peers, and my future's so bright I've got to wear shades.
-- At any rate. I really don't have the time to go against you point by point by point. I would suggest you think about professional help. You sound like you've got a real problem with self-hatred and self-loathing, and God knows that isn't healthy.
You sound reasonably intelligent, and your presence on Slashdot suggests you've got a degree of technical expertise. That means the world is your oyster, same as it is mine. You can either amass all the wealth and power you want, or you can use that wealth and power to change things, things that need changing before we all go off the deep end.
But you can just as easily choose to spurn all that, and all the good you could do with that.
It's your call. For your sake, I hope you make the right one.
Because if you don't, you're going to kill yourself before you're 30, and I really don't want that to happen.
According to the article this guy moved to SF after spending most of his adolesence coding, only to spend the next 6 years doing more coding. So, by virtue of Netscape's former success, he is now uniquely able to not only understand, but also solve very large scale urban sociological problems.
I can't wait until geeks start branching out into areas other than urban planning. Just think of how successful Linus will be when he decides to tackle AIDS. I hear Alan Cox has a really workable plan for a Mid-East peace agreement, too.
To drink late with friends? (nope).
To make more money? (hes got tons already)
. To get chicks into bed after years without? (more than likely)
. And yes i'd probably do the same, if single and very rich.
none of wich tells me why you can't get a decent job to support yourself. Grow up. EVERYONE has dealt with these issues and is better for learning how. Stop bitching and blaming government, schools, your parents and the phases of the moon, and figure out a way to achieve your goals instead of looking like an imature jerk in front of people that already have. complaining won't help, doing something will.
Dirty Pirate Hooker
Please, take a look here for your own conclusion
I do love your characterization of Gorton as "Skeletor" though. He's something else. Did you know that he used to be a liberal? No, no, I'm not kidding Rippon Society and the whole nine yards.
In fact, as attorney general, he pioneered the tactic of state attorneys general suing on behalf of citizens with a lawsuit against the oil companies. So, the Skeletor transformation is not the only one he's gone through. (Or maybe it's the same one on the ethical as well as the physical plane.)
It's interesting that his precedent is now being used by the state attorneys general to sue Microsoft, while he runs interference for the Redmond boys in Washington. Maybe some day someone will write a play about Slade-the-Younger meeting Slade-the-Senator and recoiling in horror at what he was to become.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
After a year as employee #2 at a phenomenally successful internet retailer, I didn't end up with the uber-cash that jwz and others have made from the .com bubble, but i did make enough to not have to work
anymore.
Instead of trying out some other field, I decided to keep hacking,
only this time its my own software: free pro-audio software for Linux.
This is a market dominated by a handful of companies whose software
runs on unstable and inadequate operating systems. Its the best
programming I've done, and takes place with no marketing, no
bullshit. If I want to do it over, I do it over. Every day I can wake
up inspired by the (vague) prospect of wiping out an entire market
segment of the proprietary software world.
Sadly, it seems that most rich programmers who carry on programming
seem to want to do so in an environment where they stand a chance of
making even more money. I wish more of us would take the cash and use
it as an opportunity to break the hold closed, binary-only software
has on the world. Until someone works out a viable business model for
actually selling open source software, that means working without
pay. Then, when we've done that, we can take a look at world peace,
poverty, hunger and injustice. There might be time later for a little
clubbing, if we're lucky.
One thing is that there will always be the "have's" and the "have not's". Earth is about duality, it is about individual growth spiritually. All of the focus of it... in the final end is pure illusion. The night life is illusion, the internet is an illusion, and even JWZ himself is an illusion.
/. Anyone interested in having this slashdot account number can email me
I myself am retiring from the computer industry which began in 1960. It seems that there were lots of changes, but in the final glances that I make... "nothing has really changed".
I live in Southeastern Ohio in the Appalachians. I see poverty and 8th generation welfare families who have no hope and see only despair.
I too was a millionaire on paper with Wang Labs several decades ago and when Wang fell on hard times many dedicated employees experienced what the dotcoms employees today are feeling and might yet feel.
Where JWZ chooses to focus his energy and money certainly is his business, however the scope of need of humanity is much wider than the glitz of a tinsel town or the Bay area.
JWZ is gifted with a great amount of Energy, and Stamina, and Wisdom and he is in a position to make a difference. His choice is where to make that difference.
This most likely will be my last post to
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
- The story of the hacker-cum-zillionaire is still an interesting one, and even more when the hack involved decides to stretch his devout struggle versus holes and glitches to the rest of society. Jamie is a smart man. A talented man. His mentors are impressive, his actions and troubleshooting show tremendous leaps of logic, and his lack of culpability in Netscape's woes nearly believable. He is woven as a man of integrity, of passion, of diversity and potentially a brilliant influence on American culture. Maybe he is. I don't know him. But I read that article. Extremely promising eloquence, and yet...
A flawed conclusion.O P E N___S O U R C E___H U M O R
great comedy company.
Maybe he only wants to own his own club because he was stuck "working 16 hour days" at Netscape while the rest of us were out at clubs, on the sauce.
:-)
I predict the sad, forlorn site of a 32 year old trying to wow 20-something pop-kids with his tales of the old "battles" with RMS over EMACS
The kids, however, will be far too busy sending text messages to their fridges over their WAP phones to care.
I've got to go anonymous, too. I'm wrapping up my IPO stint. I'm already a cash-money millionaire, and I'll probably have a few more before its all over (you never know, with this market). But Jamie and his ilk are few and far between. People with real skills, and a take-no-shit attitude, and innovate thinking, are awfully hard to come by. If brains and innovation are sought in the corporate zone, it sure as hell doesn't seem to be as sought as 'team players'.
The tale isn't a big surprise to people who are excellent and have suffered through corporate disillusionment: companies don't tend to value good technical contribution, because the people making the valuations don't understand true technical competence, as opposed to the endless pale-imitation MCSE-bearing losers that have flooded the industry (in my case, the networking/IT industry).
Selling out? I imagine, like me, he is only pissed because the system is so pathetic. There are plenty of elite technologists (hackerz, d00d), that have experienced small-company entrepreneurism, and its no wonder they can't believe what happens when a company gets big. Jamie is so right about the 'working to make a company successful' vs 'working for a successful company' dichotomy, it's scary. And its true in the whole industry -- the number of wannabe dipshits piling in for the cash and just flooding the industry with stupidity is mind-boggling. Even more mind-boggling, the idiots who throw money at them at horrendous rates while going out of business; it seems like no one is left to discern the wannabes from the elite any more.
Of course, Jamie's club probably WILL fail. Businesses born of passion are often the most catastrophic failures (restaurants being the best example).
I will say, though, you've got one thing damn right: if you're one of those people with imagination, skill, and competence, don't go out, looking for a job, think bigger, take some risks. The jobs will always be there if you need them, and you will never make what you're worth just getting one.
So you believe hackers who make money will change the world? If so, then where is the progress ... it's certainly not because jwz is opening a k3wl club in SF.
No my friend, the people who will change the world are the same people who got us in the god-awfull mess we are all in at the moment:
The oil companies, the tobacco companies, the industrial conglomerates, and the corporate-pleasing weak governments that everyone in the West is inflicting upon its own citizens.
These are the organisations which have to be changed in order for us to progess. These are the companies driven by the profits.
I grew up as a kid reading sci-fi books and hoping we would all be wearing space-suits and being nice to each other, but now I'm a world-weary 29 year old who has seen the devestation for myself. Maybe, just maybe we are starting to see a sea-change in attitudes amongst the huge industrials, but I really don't think we'll see the difference at a metropolitan level for another 20 years.
Jamie (and others like Paul Allen) miss the point. What is tearing the high-tech centers apart, what they need more than anything, is affordable housing for the people who make up the bands that Jamie and Co. want to see. I'm glad that Jamie is working on a new loungue, but I have to wonder how long it will be before he raises prices in order to even break even in SF? When that happens, who but the rich will be able to see bands (or art works, etc).
Jamie and Co. need to look way beyond what he and his friends like and are into socially. If he can ever do that, and fix the important urban social problems, then he will have a more profound, longer lasting effect than anything he ever did at Netscape for the Internet.
Assuming I am going to worhip someone, its going to be for their personal integrity and commitment, not becuase they happened to get rich by being at the right place at the right time.
Instant Millionares - Social Skills = Dr. Evil
www.enthea.org
One of the difficult parts of opening a nightclub in SF is the tangle of alcohol-license hoops one must jump through (as JWZ explained on his DNA site) -- that is, if you want to serve alcohol in your club.
Why would an innovative club be serving alcohol? I don't attend clubs that serve alcohol and would be happy to attend one like the new DNA if it didn't.
The argument that serving alcohol increases revenue is weak. Alcohol drives away customers, and the income that it does produce is watered down by the costs of serving. If you need the income, why not collect extra door money? Your patrons will be happy, your bands will be happy, your employees will be happy and you will be able to call your club innovative.
I have, indeed, seen a lot of dumb-but-lucky IPO millionaires. But JWZ ain't none of that. The lad is reasonably clever. And he is, refreshingly, fairly contemptuous of the effect of (relatively) unearned wealth on people and communities. Check out the "greed" gruntle on his site.
Is that the point I was supposed to get from this article? So a guy buys a nightclub in a city I don't care about. Sounds like this was written by someone with a bad case of penis envy.
I highly recommend you use this link to read the article instead of the one provided.
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Moderators: I've got tons of accounts, do your worst.
The only difference between jwz and all the other nonconformist attitudinal gothic hackers out there is that Jamie was lucky enough to ride the Netscape rocket early on, and this gave him enough money so that he would never again have to care what anybody thought. This appears to have made him a demigod in the eyes of mere mortals who have to rely on their paychecks and bow down to the people who sign them. If back in 1994 Jamie had gone to work for, say, NCD (back when putting an X terminal on every desk still looked like the wave of the future), would he still have the same attitude today with a pile of stock trading at 3/8?
By milking this media circus for all it's worth, and happily accepting his image as an underground icon, is he selling out to the very system he thumbs his nose at?
Moral of the story: Don't worship people who do radical things you've always dreamed of doing, be one of those people. Think biggerent. You've got the same number of hours in your day as anyone else, and probably more imagination, skill, and/or competence than most. Money isn't half as important as dreams; you can do accomplish a lot without a lot of money, but you can't do anything without an idea.
Signed anonymously because I'm one of those people who is "flailing about hopelessly, my self-image so connected to reaching success that I have no idea what to do now that I actually got there."
A SF restaurant with delicacies like Microsoft Minced Chicken in lettuce, Cisco Chinese Chicken Salad, eBay eggplant, Inktomi Asia Burger, and the piece de resistance: Kleiner Perkins Oysters on the Half Shell.
JWZ's venture sort of reminds me of the plot in the movie Xanadu (bad movie, bad, bad!)
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I really hate to say this, but the guy's opening a nightclub. End of story. This seeming need to put a messiah spin on someone's business venture after they quit what made them famous, when their next venture is just plain mundane.....it's silly. I actually laughed most of the way through that article. (sarcasm) OMG! He's opening a bar! HOW REVOLUTIONARY OF HIM! (/sarcasm)
SOMA is in a difficult position, in that it's the only real place for the Financial District to expand into. It can't really expand to the north, because that's where some of the "neighborhoods" are. It can't expand to the west, becuase of Nob Hill and the ghettos. To the east is Water. Where else is it going to go?
Besides, SOMA never HAD a character. It was where people who couldn't afford the financial district were, if they were companies (i.e. they were warehouses).
I live in the Castro. Even though rents are going up and things are gentrifying, we still have our own character as a neighborhood. Lots of bars (if you're into gay bars), cute and nice restaurants, little shops, it's a great time. I love it here, and I would never want to move.
Noe Valley, Glen Park, Cole Valley, hell, even Hayes Valley and the Sunset have their nice characters as little neighborhoods.
There's a place for SOMA, but if you consider SOMA as a proxy for the rest of San Francisco you're missing out on what San Francisco has to offer.
I can fully see where JZ is getting this idea. In Vancouver we have an absolute dead zone when it comes to live music. Sure there is the Commodore, argueably the best live venue in North America, but beyond that we have nothing. One club an amazing night life does not make.
I believe that the only way to create the next wave of Rock n' Roll bands is too rebirth the small to medium size venues that the Nirvana's, Pearl Jam's, and Tea Party's started at(CanCon requires me to put one Canadian band; if you get this you know). These bands didn't start out playing stadiums and 30 000 person festivals.
If you don't want to be stuck with Generic Mass Marketed CRAP for music then you better start supporting the smaller club set and better yet go see a band that you have never heard of before; you might be surprised. The other alternative is Britney 2.0 and Back Street Boys Unplugged.
Enjoy....
P/.
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What, me worry?
...we just elected an Internet millionaire to the State Board of Education.
He had enough money to pour millions into his campaign and enough ideas that he didn't get invisible-handed out of his money like Steve Forbes. He also backed an initiative (or maybe it was an amendment to the state constitution) which will increase state spending on education.
I haven't figured out whether it would have been more cost-effective to donate the campaign money to schools. But it's an interesting alternative to burnout.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
-Bertrand Russel
For another opinion on the boom in San Fran try to find a copy of Jello Biafras Spitfire tour speach. I was able to get a copy on scour (they aren't coming to my hometown :() From what I have been able to see the city of San Francisco is being turned into a yuppie wasteland where all of the people who made San Fran San Fran cannot live there anymore. No more hippies or punks or street trash. Having grown up in california this is a horrible waste of a beautiful thriving underground community that in many ways started the entire computer social revolution. Hell the EFF headquarters are there. So please, if you are one of these hackers with bouco bucks, do the same thing. Try to help your city have a certian amout of culture and style instead of letting it turn into a blasted wasteland of IBM and Intel buildings.
Pithy, yet ultimately meaningless, phrase expressed with gusto!
You mean you missed the news that BMG just bought a share of Napster? Looks like they haven't lasted long enough for you.
... maybe if you band together using wireless trancievers to create your own network, where you develop new protocols & interfaces. Maybe then you will get what you want.
I agree with your principles, I just think you are being horribly naive. The Internet is 0wn3d by the corporations: it's their bandwidth. Unfortunately this limits how much fun we can have on it!
It's not going to change anytime soon
The planned end result is pretty standard. Band, bar, dance floor, DJ booth, webcams, Internet kiosks, all of which have been seen in SF nightclubs before. No hydraulics, robots, or Vegas-style effects. I'd expected something more exciting, or at least more innovative.
In San Francisco, there's also the "BGP Problem". For over two decades, Bill Graham Presents had a lock on the better bands and venues. Nightclubs not under BGP control were stuck with inferior bands. Only 1015 Folsom and the Maritime Hall, both big venues, successfully booked major acts without BGP cooperation. Since Bill Graham died and BGP was acquired by The Contemporary Group, the local industry has changed somewhat, but it's still rather centralized.
Oh well.
You have foiled my plans again!
That is exactly what I intended to do, and I was relying on the media portraying me as someone out to save the world. Now that they have been warned, they will not give me the good P.R. I require to purchase the restricted parts for that huge laser.
Drat, zounds, and bebother your meddlings!
One day we will meet again, my nemesis. One day...
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From what I can tell, the DNA lounge is an *inherently* cool project, and one I think I'd be interested in even if it weren't coming from an eloquent and thoughtful hacker like JWZ. The special thing that's going on here is that someone who wants to run a club for love can actually afford to do so. The fact that the money came from an Internet IPO rocket is irrelevant.
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Xenu loves you!
Well, the point seems to be, if you are one of the lucky few who struck it rich, what are you going to do?
everyone pisses and moans about the things wrong in a city, or a society, or something. They bitch alot. Now what happens when you find that you might be able to something about at least something. not everything, but something.
all the not so lucky folks in the internet lottery moan cause they lost out, and because they don't have the money to party with. and maybe they are jealous (just a small chance, maybe)
sometimes what a city might need would be a good club, or an art scene or something. After all, you do not want to have a city like SF with all of the cultural resources of Midland Texas (the onetime small town home of George W. Bush).
Not to disrepect small towns, but there is a reason why folks often want to leave a small town. often there is just plain nothing to do.
Now why would anyone bother trying to do something about it?
I think this is a good thing(tm) and they certainly have my respect, not that they need it or that it matters....
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
...is that he's doing what he always wanted to.
Succeed or fail, that's more important than any other point in the thing...
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
Now shooting those morons on site [sic] WOULD be benifictial [sic] to society. Opening another place for them to get drugs, is not.
Hmm. They smoke dope. You're endorsing the outright murder of people without giving them any benefit of fair trial, any chance at rehab, any... etcetera.
For someone whose lament seems to be "I don't have an opportunity", you sure seem pretty keen on denying other people opportunities.
I cannot stand people with money...
According to St. Paul, love of money is the root of all evil. By extension, so is the hatred.
I HATE the middle and upper-class...
See the above.
its [sic] quite ironic that my hope is to become one of them
For your own sake, I hope you never do. It's a bad thing to turn into someone you hate. Take it from an expert in the self-loathing department (since recovered): it sucks.
What will *I* spend my money on? Simple, I will FINALY [sic] be able to AFFORD to read books.
Funny, I wasn't aware that it cost a lot of money to go down to the public library. If the library doesn't have books that you want, ask it to buy them--that's why libraries have funds for acquisitions.
Sad isn't it, all this money going around, and I can barly [sic] afford books to read, while this guy goes and blows millions on a club to play music about sex, drugs, and violence.
Two things:
1. His success is not your problem. Stop thinking that it is.
2. He's not "blowing millions". Even people who have a million dollars don't have a million dollars to throw away. JWZ is doing this because he thinks he can make money off it. He invests a million, he gets a million and a quarter back--that's how business works. Or he'll lose his shirt. Doesn't matter to me either way.
Relax. Calm down. The world's not out to get you. And you might want to stop hating people with money before you turn into one of them, because otherwise you're going to air-condition your skull before you turn 30.
Jamie is pretty much right on. The double edged sword that created "the city's" recent boon is also killing off many of the same things that attracted the 'new economy' in the first place. San Jose and the rest of silicon valley (to me) is a suburban sprawl. The closest thing to a city here in the bay area is San Francisco. The same clubs and micro brews that made up soma are disappearing---turning into loft/studios. Thing is...if all there is left are office spaces and living quarters because all the small cool places are gone because they cant afford the rent, the inspiration that fuels SF will be gone and so will the talent. Many are already spreading outward to east bay (houses in the ghetto areas of west oakland are around $300k+ now). If it keeps this trend, many including myself, will take the money and run. It is sad that the money we bring to this city doesnt close the cultural gap between ourselves and New York (a city that never really sleeps). It would really suk if all we had left were places like the Metreon to go to (sony can afford any city!)
He's probably set for life, and he's gonna blow so much on the notoriously difficult music business that he would have to re-join the rat race?
Start looking for that tattoo parlor now.
This guy needs a money manager who can show him how to live out his dreams without jeopardizing his independance. There is absolutely no excuse for a multimillionaire to ever have work for "the man" again. We geeks may think accounting and money management are boring, but whenever I hear some story about a guy who went from riches to rags... it's such a preventable problem.
Here is a good place to start.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?