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Unmanned (But Armed) Aircraft Experiments In 2001

John Warden, architect of the Gulf war air campaign, believes that by 2025 90% of combat aircraft will be unmanned. Next spring, the first armed aircraft without pilot, the X-45A UCAV will make its maiden flight. Replacing the pilot by a ground controller cuts the price of each unit by two-thirds, and makes it easier to transport. The Economist has more, and states 'the decision to fire weapons should be made by a human, to reduce the risk of "friendly fire."' This is not logical: Since the planes can be networked and thus know each other's relative positions, preventing friendly fire is a much simpler problem than the visual recognition required to determine what to shoot at, unless you don't mind hitting non-military targets. I wonder what Asimov would think.

21 of 449 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Incorrect assumption by Sanchi · · Score: 4

    Please, learn something before you spew your nonsence. First some background on me. I work on the computer program that runs on AWACS. I have seen what the system can do. The F-22 will not run any active systems when on an attack run. All of the detection is left up to us (awacs). and the radar system on it sucks, its only an plainer two pass (hard to explain).

    And IFF is used by every single airplane in the air, not just NATO.

    Sanchi

    --
    "They said we couldn't do it [Athlon]... but we built it, we shipped it... and we didn't have to recall it." Rich Heye
  2. Incorrect assumption by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 5
    This is not logical: Since the planes can be networked and thus know each other's relative positions, preventing friendly fire is a much simpler problem than the visual recognition required to determine what to shoot at, unless you don't mind hitting non-military targets. I wonder what Asimov would think.
    Ok, so they won't shoot each other. But what about other friendly forces? Sure, put a location beacon on them, too. Then the enemy either a) tracks in on the frequency and shoots them, or b) jams them and watches chaos ensue. Humans will always point the trigger, if only so that the brass knows who to point the finger at later.
    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    1. Re:Incorrect assumption by tbo · · Score: 3

      Ever heard of IFF (Interogate Friendly or Foe)? It's a transponder system used by all sorts of NATO vehicles and aircraft to avoid friendly fire. Also, the F-22 can apparently identify the specific type of vehicles (both friendly and enemy) with 99% accuracy by radar signature. With newer technology, we should be able to do even better.

      The humans-must-pull-trigger rule is just a feel-good safeguard to avoid Terminator 2 scenarios. I imagine computers will soon surpass humans in accuracy in making those kinds of decisions (if they haven't already), but it will take much longer before people will be comfortable with the idea of machines that have the sole discression of using deadly force.

    2. Re:Incorrect assumption by Sinical · · Score: 5

      As someone who works in the defense industry,
      let me just say that weapons systems are *hard*.
      You do not have the luxury of going "dang, a bug"
      when your missile just decided to blow up
      friendlies by mistake

      Now, I work entirely on missiles, which have a
      fairly small operational scope (kill *that*),
      and I know how many hours (read, YEARS) missiles
      spend in development, how much testing is done,
      how many simulation runs are made, and the idea
      of trying to build algorithms that try and decide
      whether a *human* *being* should DIE is not
      something I would relish or encourage.

      IFF sytems break, they are destroyed in combat,
      and maybe they are jammed. Allied systems aren't
      compatible, or a wire gets loose, or whatever.

      In my very not humble opinion, only PEOPLE get
      to decide when people die. Remember, KISS,
      and AI fire systems are most definitely not simple.

    3. Re:Incorrect assumption by Iron+Monkey · · Score: 4

      I agree. One place that computers still haven't surpassed humans is dealing with complex scenarios with insufficient information. Putting IFF on everything in sight may seem reasonable at first, but then someone might jam them. Put in swanky image recognition software, and the enemy repaints their planes to look like your allies... and so on.

      Basically, any method you use to try and ensure no screw-ups occur can be broken by the enemy.. Find me a computer that can deal with situations as complex as identifying friend vs. foe in a heated battle situation - with very little time, and when the enemy is actively trying to decieve it, and I'll show you a human brain.

      Perhaps a computer like this lies somewhere in the future.. I hope so, quite frankly. But I firmly believe that until then, humans are the best thing we have - by a long shot.

      One other thing, regarding the ethical situation. Sure, there are losses to friendly fire in every war - these are likely inevitable. But risking large amounts of human life based on some new program or machine is potentially very stupid, given just how well tested the human being is in combat.. a very safe bet over the latest technological development.

      --
      If my enemy's enemy is my friend, what happens if my enemy is his own worst enemy?
    4. Re:Incorrect assumption by vheissu · · Score: 4

      For some reason, this discussion seems to have focused on the idea that we have only two choices: A) Machines picking targets with little or no human intervention, but with the powers of radar, IFF, radiation counters, video cameras, etc. or B) People controlling the machines without any sort of electronic back up. This is ridiculous. People and machines have different strengths and weaknesses. Even if an IFF works 100% of the time, it still needs a human to determine whether an enemy should be targeted, ignored, or avoided. And that is one of the easier problems for a machine. On the other hand, people have problems too--we're relativly fragile, get tired, need heavy life support, and can't detect radio signals. What this system does is exactly what makes sense--it allows the people to control the machine remotely and make the hard decisions, while the machine gets up close and personal.

      --
      /* This post not warrantied for mission critical applications. */
    5. Re:Incorrect assumption by DrgnDancer · · Score: 3

      SEAD: Suppress Enemy Air Defense. It actually focuses more on ground based enemy AA. Tadio controled planes would be fairly good for that if you could make them accuratly target AA emplacents. Usually the biggest danger to the US during tacical air to groud attacks (Close air support or CAS) is enemy ground based AA. Artillery is often tasked with SEAD, but an accurate plane capable of detecting ground to air radar and acting as CAS to the CAS, would in some ways be more effective. Basically it would be like the Vietam era Wild Weasels, but without the insane risk to human life. I do not think these plane would be effective against other enemy planes. Humans are still better combat pilots than computers. Think about Quake, who's worse to play against a person or the comuter?

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  3. Re:Disturbing Trend by TheDullBlade · · Score: 3

    From what I've read about modern military history, the goal of war is not to kill people, it is to destroy the combat effectiveness of the enemy's forces.

    This kind of thinking is the reason why the U.S. military can't beat a truly committed enemy. It doesn't help that their idea of "combat effectiveness" is hopelessly self-referential (combat effectiveness is the ability to reduce combat effectiveness of an enemy).

    The goal of war is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women. Even uneducated barbarians know that.

    All kidding aside, war is a means, not a goal. Was is the way you get something you want when nothing else will work. Principles like "we should avoid civilian casualties" and "a tank is worth more than a handgun" are not absolute.

    The U.S. military works from several basic assumptions that hamstring them in many situations (and are forced on them by the "CNN factor"): they are trying to help the civilians in the area, their enemy is an evil dictator whose people hate him, and they want the area to be peaceful. These assumptions often conflict with, and even contradict, the only possible logical purposes of their attacks, leading to confusion and apparent incompetence.

    It is very dangerous to have such sweeping absolutes out in the open for all your enemies to see and exploit. People in more than one area that has not profited from their interaction with the U.S. have compared the American military, with their submarines, stealth planes, and nightfighting gear, to vampires. The analogy is a very appropriate one, not only because their strange-seeming motivations and their terrifying night-attack tactics, but because they are invulnerable to the normal, direct methods of attack and must be fought according to bizarre and seemingly arbitrary rules that make them curiously easy for most to ward off, if not kill.

    However, with no chance of a seriously damaging defeat near home ground, the American military will doubtless remain complacently ignorant of how they are perceived, and in particular, how well their limitations are understood.

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  4. Not nuch different from a cruise missle by Matt_Bennett · · Score: 3

    If you think about this device, and what its mission is, it isn't very far off from a cruise missle, except that it doesn't blow itself up when it completes its mission. It comes back to fight another day. Cruise missles suffer from the same vulnerabilites, they've got multiple navigation sources (GPS, inertial, landmarks), and sat. communications, where they can be re-targeted if needed.

    The first such mission envisioned is the suppression of enemy air defenses.

    I think that this means the ground based, anti-aircraft installations (guns, missles, radar) The airframe is a pretty stealthy design, which is right for going against that sort of target. That type of mission is the most dangerous for a human pilot. I'm sure Congress likes it, since if one of them goes down in combat, they don't have to tell their constituents that they are sending their children to death in some far off country.

    I would think air-air combat is a much harder problem, but it would be very good to take the human out of the loop- The plane could then do continuous hi-G turns, both positive and negative, stuff that would knock out a human in seconds.

  5. I have a small favor to ask... by TheDullBlade · · Score: 3

    You have done a real bang-up job on the software design, but would you mind posting the implementation?

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  6. Friendly Fire is never friendly by PhilHibbs · · Score: 3
    the decision to fire weapons should be made by a human, to reduce the risk of "friendly fire."
    Well, just so long as the human isn't American. We lost more troops to you guys than to the Iraqis.
  7. I am worried. by shren · · Score: 5

    The US Government has avoided or gotten pressured out of a lot of wars because American Soldiers were dying. Each technology designed to fight a battle without putting men on the field or in the sky will help move a political impediment to war.

    Most people would consider this a bad thing.

    --
    Maybe the state's highest function is to grind out insoluble problems. (Zelazny, Hall of Mirrors)
  8. What Asimov would think ... by (void*) · · Score: 3
    The three laws of robot fighter planes (RFP)

    1. An RFP may not injure friendly forces, or, through inaction, allow a friendly forces to come to harm from enemy forces.
    2. An RFP must obey orders given it by friendly ground control, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
    3. An RFP must protect its own existence and its partners as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
  9. Ender's game by Chris+Siegler · · Score: 3

    Since UCAVs are remotely controlled by operators sitting at computer workstations, there is no need for pilots to fly constant training missions to keep their skills sharpened; they can sit at the same workstations and run simulations.

    It would be pretty hard to distinguish a simulation from a real battle then, wouldn't it? I won't ruin the ending for people who haven't read the book, but this brought to memory Orson Scott Card's book, a boy named Ender, and his training at battle school.

  10. Re:what asimov would think by andyh1978 · · Score: 4
    Perhaps the Asimov reference is an ironic one referring to the story 'The Feeling of Power'.

    In this (slightly heavy handed) story, the superpowers' computers battle each other, with fully automated weapons. Humans have become reliant on computers to do simple maths; why bother learning it when everyone has a computer?

    But the military want a way to beat the enemy's computer weapons; it's too costly to put larger and larger computers in the weapons. So, they re-invent the idea of doing maths on paper (a shocking concept to those assembled, and they name it 'graphitics'), and with it the 'manned missile'.

    The general drove on. "At the present time, our chief bottleneck is the fact that missiles are limited in intelligence. The computer controlling them can only be so large, and for that reason they can meet the changing nature of antimissile defenses in a unsatisfactory way. Few missiles, if any, accomplish their goal, and missile warfare is coming to a dead end; for the enemy , fortunately as well as for ourselves.

    "On the other hand, a missile with a man or two within, controlling flight by graphitics, would be lighter, more mobile, more intelligent. It would give us a lead that might well mean the margin of victory. Besides which, gentlemen, the exigencies of war compel us to remember one thing. A man is much more dispensable than a computer. Manned missiles could be launched in numbers and under circumstances that no good general would care to undertake as far as computer-directed missiles are concerned-"
    Full story can be found at this site.
  11. Friendly fire isn't about aircraft by NMerriam · · Score: 3

    The concern with friendly fire isn't about allied aircraft -- you're correct that we alrady have decent friend-or-foe identification beacons on friendly aircraft to prevent us accidentally downing an allied plane.

    The primary concern in frind-or-foe is in ground forces that have no such beacons, nor do they really have any way of carrying such.

    The reason we lost so many forces to friendly fire during the Gulf War is that our ground forces were moving so quickly that they were frequently AHEAD of the official friend/foe demarcation. They were pushing so aggresively into Iraqi territory that they were mistaken by allied aircraft as thus being Iraqui forces and fired upon.

    In almost every case the mistake was recongnized immediately, but of course once the Hellfire is launched it does little good to realize it was a friendly tank.

    As much as we trust in technology the truth remains that we really have no 100% effective way of knowing exactly where friendly and enemy troops are int he heat of battle -- which is why, ultimately, we HAVE to rely on humans to make the call. if an aircraft's IFF is damaged that doesn't excuse our shooting it down, and the same goes for tanks.

    Some of the fault belongs in the fact that our armed forces (like moth other government agencies) are decentralized -- the Army doesn't necessarily know exactly what the Air Force is doing, and vice versa. Of course they cooperate, and they are getting much better, but even within the Army you had most of the friendly fire due to simple inability to notify the Army air units that the Army ground units were progressing as quickly as they were. Picking individual tanks out of a skirmish would be an exercise in futility if there was not a human to make the call.

    That said, the real advantage to unmanned craft is that they no longer have to keep within the physical constraints of safety for the pilot -- they can pull 15-G turns without a problem, and don't have to be designed to incorporate safety equipment or a feild of view for human eyes. They can be designed to be essentially disposable, perfectly aerodynamic, lighter, highly maneuverable, and with a minimal radar signature...

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    Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
  12. PIO, G and other little problems... by costas · · Score: 4
    There are better reasons than cost to create UCAVs:

    G-forces. At this day and age, the true limit of a fighter's performance isn't engine power or structural integrity: it's how many Gs the pilot can stand. Even with the best pressure suits, a UCAV has an obvious advantage.

    PIO (Pilot Induced Oscillation): if you're gonna pull any tricky aerodynamics like the X-45 does (inverted swept wing, stealth profile) you need dynamically unstable aircraft. The problem with unstable designs in fighters is usually that the pilot overcompensates flight corrections --i.e., the resolution of the human is much lower than the resolution that the flight corrections must be made; in essence, the pilot is correcting the aircraft at a lag. Modern control systems of course correct for this already --by trying to determine what the pilot *wants* to do, rather than what he's putting in the stick-- but with higher Gs (and thus higher speeds) the human is the weak link.

    Weight, of course. If I remember my Design courses correctly, the extra systems for the pilot account for about 20%-25% of a fighter's Take Off Gross Weight: armor plating, cockpit controls, air conditioning, etc. Weight is an aircraft's Number 1 limiting design factor.

    OTOH there is one huge disadvantage to a UCAV: in a dog-fight, or whenever human perception is needed to reduce the decision tree to something manageable, they will always (well, for the next few decades anyway) be outmanned. Pun intended.

  13. Disturbing Trend by vergil · · Score: 5
    I've noticed a disturbing trend when it comes to modern weaponry, war and the public's perception of both.

    Recall the "conflict" (it wasn't formally a "war") in the Persian Gulf and the lavish media coverage fawning over the tricked-out American arsenal of depleted uranium, ship-launched cruise missiles and so-called "smart bombs."

    I was in high school at the time, and remember well the glossy graphics in the corporate press extolling the efficiency of "fire-and-forget" rockets.

    Later came a few insightful (but quickly forgotten) editorials criticizing America's "video game mentality" of combat.

    Perhaps automated weapon systems are more efficient than those manned by humans. Maybe they'll even cut down on "friendly" casualties, and, in the long run, shave some dollars off of our bloated defense budget.

    What really concerns me ain't efficiency, or cost savings. It's accountability. I think many fail to realize that war -- whether conducted with knives or napalm, whether hand-to-hand or computerized -- is about killing. Smart bombs and fire-and-forget missiles abstract killing to a small blip on a phosphorescent screen far removed from the actual event.

    Unmanned flying gunships, I'm afraid, are a step in the wrong direction.

    Sincerely,
    Vergil

    1. Re:Disturbing Trend by Detritus · · Score: 3
      I think many fail to realize that war -- whether conducted with knives or napalm, whether hand-to-hand or computerized -- is about killing.

      From what I've read about modern military history, the goal of war is not to kill people, it is to destroy the combat effectiveness of the enemy's forces. This usually involves killing people, but that is not the objective.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  14. hacking into jet fighters: not bloodly likely by Lohgra · · Score: 3

    All this talk about intercepting or spoofing control signals is ridiculous.

    If electronic infiltration were even a remote possibility with computer pilots it would be almost as doable with real ones, since a human pilot gets targetting info, terrain maps, base and target locations, and mission objectives from ground or satellite locations already.

    Of course there is the human element of trust in calling the enemy "charlie" or naming different jets with various adjective/animal/number triplets, but that is just another type of encryption, really. It can't always be cracked by computers (as long as they're still failing the turing test) but enemy humans can crack it pretty well.

    A human pilot could of course just use visual imput to complete the mission and get home if he had some reason to doubt ground or satellite info. But so could a computer pilot! If the checksums or codewords or protocols are a bit fishy, of if it sees one ally attacking another, the computer plane can go manual override and just do its own thing. Of course this creates the possibility for a Dr. Strangelove scenario, but the movie shows that humans don't do much good against that.

    Personally I plan on getting on the robots' good side now so they'll let me live to do their menial chores once they take over.

  15. In HARM's way by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3
    One of the many successful weapons systems used during the Gulf War was the AGM-88 HARM (High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile). The HARM basically goes after weapons systems such as Anti-Aircraft Artillary (AAA) or Surface to Air Missiles (SAMs) by eliminating the radar component and effectively blinding the threat (if not completely destroying it). It was remarkably effective and played a large part in limiting the effectiveness of enemy air defenses.

    The HARM can be used in different ways. You can fire it off a platform such as the F-4G Wild Weasel. In this case, the EWO (Electronics Warfare Officer) selects a threat, hands that threat to the HARM, and sends the HARM on its way.

    But the HARM also carries its own threat table and can be sent after a target with little direction. In this case, a threat is identified in a general area and the HARM is fired. The HARM then looks for threats, identifies the highest priority threat according to its internal table, and then goes after that threat.

    These kinds of abilities allow a HARM to be used with platforms not otherwise especially equiped for Wild Weasel missions. It also allows for more creative functions. A pilot can "pickle over the horizon" and send a HARM after a known target without coming in range themselves. And by extending a HARM's fuel capacity, it can "hunt" for an extended period of time awaiting threat radars to power up after hiding from the Wild Weasel aircraft.

    Vicous stuff.

    The sobering part comes from a few rare reports during the Gulf War. There were reports of "near misses" with HARM missles by friendly surface forces. The theory is that the HARMs mis-identified friendly radar or communications systems as a threat in its internal threat table.