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A Drive With The Works: DVD-[R,RW] And CD-[R,RW]
grub writes: "The MPAA must be saying "Ho Lee Fook."
Pioneer had introduced a
rewritable DVD drive. The drive reads and writes in four formats: DVD-R, CD-R, DVD-RW and CD-RW, has up to 4.7GB capacity per DVD side and records on DVD-R at twice the normal speed."
With 60GB drives now at reasonable prices, and drives three times that size coming out on the high end, 4.7GB no longer sounds like the mountain of bits it once did. Still, this is a wild combination: hopefully the world will soon agree on some nice DVD-RAM standards worth living with.
Of course the MPAA should be getting frightened about DIVX and the new DVD to CD-R Video devices being launched.
They're not. Of course they're going to try and stop it, but the whole RIAA vs. MP3 debacle has already proven that Joe Sixpack cares more about having a store-bought perfect copy than wasting his time pirating discs just to see a stinking movie.
Don't forget that most people bought DVD players for the higher quality in the first place and aren't going to give that up for a couple of free flicks. As far as I can tell, the quality of that DIVX is worse than VHS.
RTFA.
and offers up to 4.7GB of storage capacity per DVD side.
And moderators, RTFP.
I swear. You mention dvd burning and everyone's minds immediately jumps to copyright infringement. Most people are missing the fact that we are getting close to REPLACING TAPE DRIVES. Finally. A form of backup that has, though half the size, far more speed than your normal tape drives. Now, i am not saying we are ready to get rid of those old pieces of crap yet, but we are close. I am not sure, but i imagine that the 4.7 gb is only on the dual-sided disks, and i imagine too that you have to flip the disc to write to both sides. So it is still just a 2.xx gb automated backup solution, but thats a heluva lot better than 650 mb!! Now stepping away from the business world and into the desktop realm, think about the size of your average hard drive. Personally i use 14.2 gb out of my 40.6 gb of hard drive space. Most of that though is game fluff that needs to be reinstalled anyways everytime i reformat my windows partition. (i couldve shortened my sentence by saying i reinstall my games every weekend... cron job anyone?). Anyways, the problem with ghosting is that it takes a LOT of space to get, not only the default windoze install, but also all the extra programs and tweaking that comes along with it everytime i reinstall. But now i dont have to store that img on my hard disk, i can store it on a dvd, and still have room to throw in some of the fluff like saved games, mp3's, etc. Basically all i am saying is to stop trying to burn dvd's for a few years. If you cant afford the $20 per dvd, then how did you afford the player???
what's to stop me from using that data to "author" a new movie ostensibly created by me?
Ethics? Illegality?
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
No, DVD Players will not play DVD-R discs. Blame all the DVD companies for not being able to decide on standards.
Fear my low SlashID! (bidding starts at $500)
Do not anger the worm.
C'mon guys, this is the VCR replacement we've all been looking for. The only reason VCRs are still selling is because they are recordable. My mom isn't even considering a DVD right now, she wants a VCR for christmas. Why? Most of the movies she wants to see are on TV but usually at some late time. She just wants to record them and watch them at her convenience (I'd get her a TiVO but I haven't seen a PAL version yet)
The ability to record and re-record TV channels on a disc is the function most consumers have been looking for. They want to do more than just watch movies, they want to record Sex in the City, The Sopranos and watch them when they want to.
I can't wait till I can toss my VCR and free up an extra EuroSCART port.
Jay
-- polish ccs mirror
-Dave
All those goodies, and not a SCSI interface? What's Pioneer been smoking? Can ATAPI keep it rolling at 2xDVD write speed?
Cool drive, though
Black holes are where God divided by zero
Of course the MPAA should be getting frightened about DIVX and the new DVD to CD-R Video devices being launched.
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
That's easy enough to deal with. You write unencrypted content. Problem solved.
I'm more interested in seeing the price tag on this thing, though. Its predecessor was selling around $5,000, last I checked. The new combo drive should cause the price on the older one to drop, hopefully within the range of mere mortals, as happened with CD-R.... then you'll finally see the price of blank DVD-R media drop.
---
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
Are you storing your movies in .bmp format?
Title says it all really: how easy would it be?
Panasonic has a new 'DVD Recorder' too. It's DVD-RAM (differences? It's 4.7 gigs too). http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/dvd/ dvd_recorder.htm
What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about?
This
A few of these
AMD 760 MP
Two of these
A fridge with a padlock
Oh yeah, and huge pectoral muscles!
Unless you count the way I drive in my Highway 17 commute, in which case anthracite is just fine.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
How many CD burners do you know that operate at 18x write speed on ATAPI? As I understand it (I could be wrong, I know) a CD burner - and by extension a DVD burner - needs its data to come at a steady rate. Get too far behind with data, and you've toasted the CD/DVD.
I don't think that 2770 KB/s is more than ATAPI can handle - I'm questioning that it can sustain that rate for long enough to fill a 4.6 GB DVD-ROM (it's roughly 28 minutes, if my calculations are correct).
Let's not forget that the situation is different if the data stream comes from an ATAPI device too. Last time I checked, ATAPI requires that the data pass the system bus from device to device, in reality doubling the required bandwidth for operation. It has to to with the one-command-per-ATAPI-bus restriction, if memory serves me (anyone got the full story on this?). SCSI does not suffer the same constraint, and you should be able to stream data directly from the disk to the burner with no intervention from the system bus.
Black holes are where God divided by zero
That's easy enough to deal with. You write unencrypted content. Problem solved.
Problem not solved.
Your player won't play unencrypted content. It will look for the content code, which will return the zeros. It will then refuse to play the disc.
Unless you play with the firmware or software, and unlike Region Codes, there's very little inroads which have been made into supplying replacement firmware or software capable of playing consumer written DVD content [obviously these would be underground efforts - like with console games, producing any DVD content involves licensing from those who intented the system - the MPAA].
OSS will likely be one of the first players to support consumer produced, backup, and pirate DVD content if enough [that fits into the first two categories] is produced.
Mike
Pioneer also plans to continue sales of its popular external DVD-Recordable drive (DVR-S201) for high-end authoring and content development applications.
First, as the subject points out, DVD-R is not the same thing as DVD-Recordable (the latter will play in any DVD player and does not have the disk key zeroed out -- it can be used to make true DVDs and, indeed, the early players could be used to make bit-for-bit copies sans decryption, a feature later removed when the MPAA discovered it would undermine their court battle against DeCSS).
Second, Pioneer's statement appears to imply that DVD-Recordable drives will remain (artifically?) expensive, while the DVD-R/DVD-RW drive will be priced lower for consumer use.
I'm afraid DVD-Recordable media isn't likely to come down in price anytime soon, although DVD-R and DVD-RW media should.
As another pointed out, it is likely that future DVD players will play DVD-R and DVD-RW disks, as there are many of us who want to make our own DVDs from our own home videos and be able to send them to our grandparent's/relatives to watch. Pioneer seems to imply this when they say
"The driving force behind both DVD-R and DVD-RW has always been compatibility with standard DVD playback systems," said Andy Parsons, senior vice president of product development and technical support, Pioneer New Media Technologies, Inc.. "Pioneer believes that interchangeability between recorders and players is the most important attribute any recordable DVD format can offer [...]"
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
New portables (discman clones) are advertised as CD-RW compatible. I just bought a Phillips AZ9113 and it had a big label on the package saying CD-RW compatible.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Ok, let's see here if there fine for copyright violation is $150,000 per offense. Using DVD-RAM and Divx, I can fit around 7 movies per disc if they are all aroun 650 megs, providing that they aren't too long. 7 * $150,000 = 1,050,000. That has to be some kind of record for fine efficiency when pirating! Plus I don't know if the fine for pirating movies is more than $150K or not. See!
$20 isn't really all that much to pay. Oh! My astute collegue points out that there is also some prison time included with such a sentence.
-"You'll have plenty of time to sleep when you're dead."
I used to work for a Video Post Production
facility and we had a Pioneer DVD Burner and
Authoring software for the PC (not sure
exactly what, it wasn't my area).
We could author DVD's just fine with this setup
that would play on standalone DVD players or
on Computers with DVD drives. It was common
for clients to ask for copies of their commercials
on DVD and we could provide them no problem.
I believe you can choose to author an unencrypted
regionless DVD (which is what we were doing) and
players will play them fine.
> To the citizens of the United States of America,
> In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to
> govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
> independence, effective today.
> Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties
> over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which
> she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP
> for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a
> world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without
> the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be
> disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine
> whether any of you noticed.
> To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following
> rules are introduced with immediate effect:
> 1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.
> Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be
> amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you
> should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary".
> Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as
> "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of
> communication. Look up "interspersed".
> 2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know
> on your behalf.
> 3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.
> It really isn't that hard.
> 4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as
> the good guys.
> 5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The
> Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you
> to get confused and give up half way through.
> 6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind
> of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good
> game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your
> borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You
> will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper
> football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It
> is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed
> to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not
> involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar
> body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US
> rugby sevens side by 2005.
> 7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons
> if they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that
> there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The
> Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "sh*t".
> 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new
> national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive
> Day".
> 9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for
> your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we
> mean.
> 10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation.
I like to see a product like this coming from a well respected brand such as Pioneer. Not only does that imply a high quality product, it shows that a major corporation does not fear legal repurcussions by groups such as the MPAA. If all holds true, prices on this type of system will fall eventually, and replicating DVD's can be as easy at doing the same with compact discs. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that cd burners were out of most people's budgets...
Right. It's an IDE device control protocol which is inferior. i.e. you're always likely to have more burn errors due to the drive not being fed properly if you're using IDE rather than SCSI. It's a fact of life - Even for a single drive, IDE uses far more CPU than SCSI. And once you take into account IDE's lack of bus disconnection, it gets worse. (And IDE device servicing a request ties up the bus, while a SCSI bus only uses the bus when it actually has data to communicate.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I don't expect it to be affordable right away, but how unaffordable it is should give an indication as to how far away from the mainstream it is.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
The moderation system has failed us again. I moderated this post up when it was relevent.. here it is completely off topic. You can't even pretend. Too bad I'm posting this; it would get -1 Redundant, -1 Off Topic. Grr.
I'd be afraid of getting moderated down, but if moderation continues in this fashion, then I'll probably wind up with +5 funny.
------------
CitizenC
My name is not 'nospam,' but 'citizenc'.
I seriously doubt this :
1) what's the point of having a DVD-R writer if you can't author your own videos and play them on a regular DVD player ? Surely, preventing all DVD-R from reading on a stand alone DVD player would kill a lot of the legit market for DVD-R. Many people want to edit their own DV videos and then burn them on a DVD-R to watch WITHOUT A COMPUTER.
2) if current DVD player don't like the unencrypted DVD-R, the new players will (see point 1).
3) if not point 2, then someone will offer firmware hacking (like all the dezoning and de-macrovisioning currently happening on the market)
Worse, you can't even legally copy copy protected media! No backups of your favorite movies, no fair use.
I read the internet for the articles.
I think we're going to need a better menuing system.
Alakaboo
However, as devices like this one come out and get more popular, it will cause the demand for blank DVDs to increase. This will naturally lead to a drop in price.
Consider this: A a few years ago, blank CDs were going for about $5/pop. Now you can get them in bulk for about fifty cents each. Given enough time the same thing will happen with blank DVDs.
This is why the MPAA was so incensed over the DeCSS. They were looking ahead to when blank DVDs would be much less expensive than those with content put out by the studios. Whether or not this is good/bad/or otherwise, I'll leave to the reader.
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
...which doesn't mean it's better - but it sells more.
2000-11-13 20:52:01 The Ultimate Recordable (articles,hardware) (rejected) - but I'm not bitter.
BlackNova Traders
...is here.
BlackNova Traders
Today, typically you have to create huge uncompressed video files, take them to an editing suite, read them in (slowly) on an Avid, and write them out to tape. (You can't compress them up front because they're going to be compressed in motion JPEG in the Avid, and if they're decompressed and recompressed with a different algorithm, artifacts appear.) This costs a few hundred dollars a run if you send it out. Then you get to send the master out to a VHS reproduction shop, where the quality usually drops.
Surely, preventing all DVD-R from reading on a stand alone DVD player would kill a lot of the legit market for DVD-R.
No offense, but you haven't been watching much news in the last year, have you? Those that have would note that the whole DVD industry is far from legit, even from the very beginning. They don't consumers making DVD-R's at all, let alone for a low price.
I surely do hope all of your predictions are correct. I'd much like to see DVD eventually become more of a recognized standard than the vast market strongarm tactic it currently is.
A while back, when CD-R was shiny and new, I found I had a problem with my hi-fi. It wouldn't play CD-Rs. Being a bit of a technophile I'd bought the player when they weren't exactly mainstream, and it was getting on a bit. When I bought my first CD-writer I found that my recordings of CD audio weren't compatible with an older cd player. They were fine on computer drives, but audio players didn't like it at all.
Do DVD players of the set-top box variety play DVD-R discs? This is not an obvious attempt at piracy. The company I work for produces video adverts for things, and DVD would be a great medium for sending to people. Unfortunately even the shortest production run of DVDs costs more than my annual salary (well, not quite, but exaggeration is allowable). Would a DVD writer be a viable option instead?
http://twitter.com/onion2k
DVDRs have certain portions of the disk already written to as part of their production companies licensing deal with the MPAA. The bits required for the disk key are already prewritten with zeroes.
You can't burn an exact copy of a DVD to a DVDR, and your inexact copy won't play in most peoples DVD drives.