Slashdot Mirror
At Last, Mir to be Ditched
Joshua Strzalko writes "I had originally thought that the MIR space station was going to be kept in orbit. Why with all that space fungus, it makes for a great science experiment. However it seems that in late February, the 14 year old space station will make a controlled decent into the Pacific Ocean."
Did anyone else laugh when the saw the two headlines next to each other on Slashdot?
"At Last, Mir to be Ditched"
"Iridium Saved?"
-Paul Komarek
here is a great site for MIR. It gives it's location in orbit, etc... MIR spacestation
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
It seems to me that when the Russian astronauts go to Mir on their final trip, they can unhook the oxygen creating tanks, which will kill all of the fungus, because fungus can't live without air (but maybe their spores can?)
Doh!
I was wondering, since Russia looks like it will
send one more ship to Mir before the end, if there
were anything that would be worth saving, that
they could fit in the Soyuz capsule with
themselves safely? Anything up there worth saving
for a museum or for more practical reasons that
couldn't easily replaced here on the ground?
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
Like back in 1983 when two cosmonauts Titov (who was on one of the later missions to on Mir) and Strekalov saw their Soyuz 10 explode on the ground, sending the two of them three miles into the air but land (more or less) safely.
Even their uncontrolled crashes have been remarkably successful in avoiding populated areas. Remember: most of Russia is uninhabited, so if you aim for somewhere in the taiga (much less in the pacific), there's not much damage you can cause, unless you start a forest fire.
-- Anne Marie
I agree. Burning up Mir did not seem decent to me.
First it was up, then they were going ot crash it, then they were going to keep it up, then they were going to crash it, then they were going ot keep it up, then they were going to crash it, then it was saying up, now it's going to crash again.
Come on! This is a space station, not a yoyo!
----
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Check here for an Mir architecture overview: http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/rsa/mir.html
Second Mir has a lot of mass, far more then a typical communications satellite. I doubt one, or two, or maybe even three ascent stages would be sufficient to boost Mir into an appropriate orbit. I don't know of multiple stages ever having been used in an ascent situation, much less any available in a reasonable timeframe.
Third is the control issue. Most communications satellites are spun to give them gyroscopic stability during thier ascent. I doubt this would be possible with Mir from either a structural integrity aspect or finding an appropriate axis-mounting aspect. This complexity would be compounded by the need for multiple ascent units required and transitioning between their various stabilization motions.
So - could it be done?
Possibly yes. It would however require several years of development, cost a great deal of money, and not be assured of success. Since Mir has no funds left, there's little time left to make any decisions, and left in place it's a problem waiting-to-happen there is no chance of Mir being rescued for posterity.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Be honest now... how many of you are planning on chartering a boat to take you out near the estimated crash-down site in the hopes of picking up some souvenirs???
You could probably even pay for the expidition by Ebay'ing some of the junk you pick up...
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
first woman in space (Sally Ride)
You seem to have misspelled "Valentina Tereshkova."
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
After all, Russia has already crashed one object on Earth, a satellite onto Canada in 1978, so why should this time be any different?
Because in that case it was a single satelite that they lost control of and the orbit decayed with no input from them. In this case they're going to send up a Progress supply rocket to dock with it and deorbit it at the best possible time in terms of hitting the Pacific.
I don't know if they've modified the plan, but originally they were going to send up a crew to undock all the pieces and maybe even plant charges to blast the pieces into smaller pieces, so that there wouldn't be one great big mass hitting the atmosphere, but a bunch of small ones. More surface area == more complete burning.
Still, I wouldn't particularly want to be on a cruise ship in the Pacific on that day.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Well, the problem is you have to get Mir outside of Earth's gravity well. This would basically involve filling the thing with fuel, attaching a booster, and sending up several refuel missions during its long long burn (during which it would probablly break up and fall back to Earth uncontrolled and full of explosive rocket fuel.) Basically, it is approximatly 1000x easier to just calculate a coarse trajectory that will land it in the pacific ocean (not a small target) and send it down there with the little bit of fuel Mir has left. I suspect the "controlled decent" part means that the Russians will try to light off the rockets at approximatly the right time for Mir to land in the ocean, and nothing more.
I read the internet for the articles.
It would take a lot of fuel to break Earth orbit. However, it would be nice to drop it on the Moon where its refined metals could be useful in the future. Maybe NASA could start using it to test propulsion systems -- have the last cosmonauts hang a remote-controlled tether on it so its solar panels can be used to try to boost its orbit, then start sending up ion and plasma drives to clamp on and test in space...
Will the fungus be allowed to vote?
I don't know, however since some Florida voters behaved pretty much like fungus, why not.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Other than, say Hawaii or Australia...
What parts of the world will the descent/burn be visible?
What parts of the world promise the best view? Will this be a nighttime thing, or a daytime thing?
Does anyone know?
The nick is a joke! Really!
GPL Deconstructed
Sure, we'll be getting rid of a piece of space junk NOW, but what happens later on?
We'll be harassed by a huge energy cloud, controlled by a mechanical intelligence called M'ger (pronounced Meager), it'll kidnap Sinead O'Conner, and cause all sorts of problems for us while it searches for it's "Creator". Think of the future ramifications!
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Not that I doubt you, but are we absolutely sure that the fungus that is currently on MIR is harmless to life on this planet. After all, we have viruses and bacteria that are resistant to common drugs like penicillin. Should we take the risk of introducing something into the biosphere that we may find out years from now is harmful to us. Perhaps a delay is in order to make sure that we humans are not shooting oursleves in the foot.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Why not Mars? USA have been doing it for years...
--
Not unless you have a good reason -- like "hardening" a military spysat (the 1978 Soviet radar bird that crashed in Canada needed a lot of juice, that's why it had nuclear batteries) or operating out past Saturn (the Cassini probe). Mir has lots and lots of solar panels.
"Ain't no right way to do a wrong thing."
All I can hope for is that he goes up on February 26! Yeah, baby!
--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
A story from the science section of slashdot states that organic matter can survive atmospheric re-entry. Now, this is just the organic compounds surviving, but if the little bits that make up organic life can survive, the odds can't be that long that a robust fungus makes it through re-entry, especially if shielded by metal walls etc.
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
Don't look at me, I voted for the purple fungus!
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
CmdrTaco: "OK boys, we've run too many repeat articles. Any suggestions?"
Cowboy Neal: "Beer?"
CmdrTaco: "Already tried that. Hemos?"
Hemos: "How about we run another anti-Microsoft article? Or say that RedHat has 2000 bugs again?"
CmdrTaco: "Too plain."
Timothy: "I know. What if were to run an article similar to the repeated ones, but not nearly as engrossing?"
CmdrTaco: "Great idea! All in favor?"
All: "Aye!"
Cowboy Neal: "Beer?"
CmdrTaco: "Soon, son. Soon......"
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Aside from this, LOTS of stuff rains down onto Earth every day - tons. Some of it is large enough to harbor biological organisms & transport them to the surface. The fact that we're still here stands testamant to either the paucity of foreign material or the resiliency of our biosphere. Either way, and in spite of a few B-grade SF films, biohazards from near-space aren't a big concern these days.
(The alien Roquefort inhabiting my brain made me say this)
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
The problem with that is that the ISS and Mir are in very different orbits. I forget which is which, but I read somewhere that one is in an orbit that is inclined 30-something degrees to the equator, while the other is 50-something degrees. It would be excedingly difficult to send the shuttle up to one of the stations, and then shift its orbit so that it could link up with Mir. The shuttle and the stations are moving so fast up there, that the change in momentum required would almost warrant a whole extra rocket-full of fuel. Its a nice idea, but it just couldn't be done, unless you wanted to incur the cost of sending an empty space shuttle directly up to Mir, just for the purpose of dismantling it and bringing it down.
As admiring as I am of the Russian crew of Mir for putting up with living in that fungus-infested hellhole for as long as they did, I certainly don't believe that the station is in any kind of fit state for a "controlled descent", a euphamism if I've ever heard one.
After all, Russia has already crashed one object on Earth, a satellite onto Canada in 1978, so why should this time be any different? In fact, given that Mir is a hell of a lot bigger and less maneuverable, and that it is in an even worse condition, the chances are that this "controlled descent" could turn into the biggest disaster for decades, as Mir hurtles towards a populated landmass...
Of course, this could be their master plan...
Jon Erikson, IT guru
You probably should hold your breath when that crazy space-fungus hits the atmosphere...
------
Let me give you the lowdown
But it's just not as intense when the winner goes to a brand new space station, rather than an oldy moldy decrepit space station with a decaying orbit. Oh well, so it goes.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
011001110110110001100101011011100110001001101111
We will be able to know which colour space fungus can give to fireworks :))
Chuchi
Speaking as a person who took High School Biology, yes, many fungal spores can live without air, and survive very harsh conditions.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
can you imagine true geeks ditching mir? i mean think of geeks destroying their computers. they don't just throw it in a thrash can. they wack it with axe, shoot and pound some bullets into it, set it into fire etc. why can't they find a more geeky creative way? crash it to the moon, or before it reaches the ocean, fire a missle on it? how about a missle fest, have every country fire a missle on it as it crashes into the oceans, those who hit it are delcared superior. creative destruction is an art. ;)
------ Curiosity killed the cat. {satisfaction brought it back | it didn't die ignorant | lack of it is killing mankind
Right in line with the 'Iridum is saved' article... we must have a 'Mir is doomed' article again.
In a day or two, there will be both 'Iridum deal quashed; sattelites to be de-orbited' articles, and 'Mir is saved!' articles.
Meanwhile the Irridium Satellites have filed claims in the Galactic Courts to prevent there being a recount in Mir, which could result in Mir being saved and Irridium ditched.
Back in Florida, the two political candidates are to begin a controlled descent into Darkest Peru (with obligatory marmalade sandwiches), due to lack of funds to keep them operating in orbit.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
So if this thing lands on my in-laws...I *also* get free vodka? Bring it on!!!
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Maybe I'm the only one that thought of this, but I can't see how. With more than 20 shuttle missions scheduled for next year, why not have the shuttles (which were full on the way up with International Space Station parts) simply bring down MIR in pieces in their empty cargo bays when they return to earth? That would let scientists study the thing and maybe have it end up in a museum where it could be remembered. Sure it would involve some costs, but the shuttles are already UP there and it can't be that big of an expense to boost over to Mir and grab some or all of it for re-entry.... but I guess if it was easy, somebody would have considered that right?
3-Server OC-3 Linux Counter-Strike Cluster
www.rnp.ca
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Besides the obvious answer that its cheaper to descend it then to push it off into space... why can't it be released into space?
Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I was four when the soviet satellite came down in northern Canada, and I remember it being a really big deal, whether that was justified or not I don't know. But ultimately, when disposing of stuff in space the utmost care should be taken. What exactly would Russia do if this thing happens to land on some poor guys fishing boat? I far as I can figure sending it into space makes more sense then descending it. In the end wouldn't that be the safest disposal method? Am I missing something? Is there a better reason why they can't push it off into space?
Wouldn't it be more fun to crash Mir into the Moon?
I say we ditch Mir into the Sun!
I'll believe it when I feel pieces of it hit my head. Until then, I'm not holding my breath.
- passion
It's one of the most expensive and best fireworks show ever!
Personally I was getting tired of the up-again down-again yo-yoing of Mir.
-Ben
They are still haggling and have a weak contract.
Russia increased its fee from $40 million to $100 million. The Survivor people thought they might meet the $40 million figure, but that wasn't firm. Even in dirt cheap Russian, space costs are probably higher than this.
i hope.
There is probably a sizeable market of people who would pay $100,000 for a week in space (500,000 people x $100,000 = $50 billion). You probably need a space plane that can launch at $25-$50,000 per person to start with. Then a hab module attached to the Mir or Space Station Alpha.
Please note that we have linked the article "At Last, Mir to be Ditched" in error. It should go to:
Iridium Saved?
In fact, Mir has yet again been saved, and Iridium has once again been ditched.
Slashdot apologizes for continuously reporting the news before happens on these two issues.