Slashdot Mirror
Fandom vs. Fandom.com
Marx's Ghost writes: "This is an interesting article about fan sites being threatened by Fandom.com, whose claim of being "by the fan's, for the fan's" doesn't hold up in view of their bullying tactics. Should provoke some people who are concerned with poor definitions of cyber-squatting. What should really constitute cyber-squatting?" Claiming a trademark on a descriptive term like "fandom" and then bullying other fan sites ... what a great business plan.
Now I can't make that Ricky Martin fan page, hope you're happy.
It is really telling that the Creation company, which runs for-profit Science Fiction and Star Trek Conventions is involved this these people. I remember my first and only Creation Con back in the Early '80s...back then Fan run cons where charging $20 for a weekend membership, and it cost me $25 for one day at the Creation Con. Creation Cons are consistantly over priced, have crappy programming and driven up the speaker's fee s for guests so much that the average convention cannot afford guests. Thankfully, SF Book oriented conventions never really became a target for Creation...we still have good, inexpensive conventions for people who enjoy Science Fiction and Fantasy Books!
ttyl
Farrell J. McGovern
Founder, CAN-CON Ottawa, Canada (That is the same places a OLS)
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
This company (fandom.com) exists because its corporate backers think they can make money. But with the attitude towards even big, well known, highly visible dot-companies being what it is today, I wouldn't bet a whole lot on fandom.com's survival.
And with their attitude -- homogenizing fansites for profit -- and their actions, they deserve to go under.
Good riddance, won't be missed.
And this case is not even about infringing on a copyright.
The Cure of the ills of Democracy is more Democracy.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
So, to sum up the story, a corporation with a bunch of money starts a mass of homogeneous website for "fandom" (note the "little 'f'") to protect them from bullying IP lawyers...and their IP lawyers are now attacking any "fandom" that isn't in the "Fandom.com" club.
To me, this raises a couple of questions:
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for Evil.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
I think that POOR VICTIM's best course of action is to tell them to shove it up the EVIL BAD COMPANY corporate ass, perhaps in better terms though.
I still don't understand how POOR VICTIM can really be domain squatting if they actually have a valid website up with relative content. Domain squatting is registering doctor.com and bidding it off to the highest bidder.
Someone has their head so far up their ass it's just going to be nasty. Remember Colgate-Polmolive Vs. ajax.org, same thing.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
It's already in a dictionary.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Read the article that precedes the discussion; it indicates that the word came into existence in the 1930s.
Fandom
Is
A
Source
Of
Income
Blar.
Apple Computer was sued by Apple Records over exactly this same sort of bullshit.
Let's face it, getting businesses to move is many times harder than getting people to move.
.discus where a person can register a domain like microsoft.ffa and NEVER be penalized for any otherwise legal content on there.
.kids and a .sex domain areas. I don't care if some people say "well what about artistic nudity, where should we put that?" Well, duh, figure it out on a case by case basis depending on standard law backed up by psychological study. Or just do it anyway you want to, already. I'm sick of the indecisiveness that makes kids suffer whitehouse.com while adults suffer a complete and total lack of knowledge of what to expect on the internet. If we can categorize into organizations and comercial traffic (already an extreemely fuzzy mix), we should go right ahead and categorize by topic, discussion, and appropriateness. It may not be great, but future filters won't have to worry about filtering out Dick Armey's website!
So let's make a "trademark free" zone like
Surely, this system might take the sting off of people claiming guinessbeersucks.com must be taken back or they will go broke, so joe blow must give it back and has no rights to it. Just take guinessbeer.ffa and be set for life with your audience. Of course the corporations themselves would be prohibited from owning their own trademarks there.
Also, we still need a
-Ben
The problem is that fandom.com has no more right to the name than fandom.tv. The word fandom has been in use since at least the 70s (when I first heard it) by a community of folks who have been holding multi-thousand participant conventions around the world for decades.
Fandom.com is just trying to "own the space", and since it's not their space to own, I really hope they end up paying fandom.tv's legal fees.
Fair use for trademarks lets me say things like "KFC's food sucks" and it lets my mechanic say he works on "Ford Cars". It does not let me open a "McDonalds Hamburger Stand" even if my name happens to be McDonalds. It would appear that Sun's legal goons don't quite understand this concept and are trying to strong arm Sun Ripend Kernels which sells used sun equipment in Australia. If any of you deal wil large amounts of sun hardware, call up your sales droid and ask them wtf is going on.
I thought one of the reasons for TLD's was so that one company could have blah.com and another could have blah.tv?
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They are doing the legally required trademark protection so as not to lose it.
Maybe no one but me read through the entire article. There is this link on page three. According to the USPTO, Fandom.com's claim on the word Fandom as a trademark is "Abandoned: Applicant failed to respond to an Office action." It's a bit late now for them to be whining about it, don't you think?
2000-06-19 - Abandonment - Failure to respond
1999-10-29 - Non-final action mailed - 1st action
1999-10-15 - Case file assigned to examining attorney
ISTM that they they are crying foul (where a foul is said to be a breaking of the rules) when apparently they didn't want to play by those same rules themselves before now.
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"We're an apex predator with the fecundity of a base level herbivore... We're a virus with shoes..." RazorJAK
"by the fan's, for the fan's" what?
Obviously the apostrobphe has taken on new meaning since I last used it.
Whats up folk's!
There, now I have it right...
just my blog and pix
The irony here is incredible. One of the reasons fandom.com was founded was as a way for fansites to band together, to share resources to fight off corporate bullies. Now they have become a corporate bully themselves.
Still, their idea is a very good one. A union of fan sites would have more power. Affiliate sites could spread the news of impending lawsuits or cease and desist orders much further and more quickly than a lone site. Publicity is often all it takes to curtail a corporation's bad behaviour. Information could be shared, about the little guy's rights, about what legal steps to cover your ass, etc. The knowledge gained in one skirmish could be used by all.
The bottom line is, fan sites are created by fans. When corporations bully the fan sites, they are bullying their customers. And if enough of their customers get angry about that kind of behavior, change can be effected. Fans do have a lot of power in the relationship, if we can find an effective way to use it.
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
And how exactly will it be legally insulated from "trademark bullies". Trademarks are based upon the laws of the country. If ICANN decided tommorow that .com is trademark free it won't stop the big companies from sueing domain holders and saying stop using our trademarks. Saying "Oh ICANN lets us use your trademark" won't stop them, they'll just go on to say how the law of the country say I have protection no matter where the trademark resides. The law on trademarks would have to be changed to have something like this happen.
Of course this gets deeply into the whole Global vs Country debate, but unless the TLD is hosted in a country without any trademark laws its going to be a problem.
where nothing really exists, but you can be assured, somebody owns it anyway.
72656B636148206C72655020726568746F6E41207473754A
Fine, but do you know how many search engines there are out there? Or how many there were when google launched? Who would be using the cutting edge search engine 1/1/3867?
All opinions are my own - until criticized
You really mean "...what is so hard about using 64.209.200.100 to find something..." don't you?
I guess you just answered your own question.
All opinions are my own - until criticized
I mean, the article is quite clear - there are hundreds, if not thousands, of "fandom" type websites. Now that this company has gotten a bunch to join with them, they want to stomp out fan sites that don't join - and any other competitor.
They said the word "fandom" has been around since the beginning of the 20th century, and now someone wants to claim that anyone who uses that word in their domain is cybersquating?
I say to them: BITE ME.
It's like comparing "fandom" with terms that have been diluted, like "kleenex" and "q-tip", only those are words created by a company - they wouldn't come after you for using "tissue". Imagine tissue.com trying to shut down tissue.tv claiming they were cybersquating. Give me a break.
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Stupid sexy Flanders.
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Stupid sexy Flanders.
I read the article last night, and something's been troubling me. Perhaps a lawyer type could clear it up for me.
The little I know about trademarks has led me to understand that if a trademark becomes diluted, that is if they the holder of the mark fails to prevent the word from becoming commonly used, they lose their right to it. This is why the Kleenex folks are always ranting and raving about using generic terms such as "tissue." They are doing the legally required trademark protection so as not to lose it.
So it might seem that even if Fandom.com does have a trademark on the word, which the article casts as unlikely, that the word has been so heavily used that they have ground to stand on to claim it as a trademark.
Dan
It could (quite reasonably in my opinion) be argued that not being based in, or having any relevance to the island of Tuvalu counts as using a .tv domain name "in Bad Faith".
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Both etoys.com and fandom.com claim in their cease and desist letters that they own the trademark. Neither actually do.
Just like the etoys V etoy case they don't actually have the trademark. Fandom.com doesn't actually own the trademark. They applied to the trademark but according to the office it's a "dead" application. Read: The patent and trademark office sent it back probally wondering why they were laying claim to it when Star Log has been using the team years before the WWW was a Wet Dream in a Swiss research lab.
Besides, if you have a company, or product that is say, the "netshredder". Nowadays, people look for you automatically at netshredder.com. Where do they go now? netshredder.ustm? .gtm? .com? .product? I personally think that we need a *better* way of handling domains that is "product" friendly
The people at RealNames thought of this too and created RealNames Internet Keywords.
Tetris on drugs, NES music, and GNOME vs. KDE Bingo.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Even if ICANN was to come out with a new TLD, it should be .parody . That way, the corporations can still sue everyone with a com/net/whatever for "false representation of their trademark"
That's why OpenNIC created the .parody domain. Install OpenNIC nameservers in resolv.conf (or the Windoze equivalent) and learn more at http://www.parody. (Note that you have to know somebody who has root on your mailserver to be able to send a registration request to hostmaster@parody.)
Tetris on drugs, NES music, and GNOME vs. KDE Bingo.
Will I retire or break 10K?
What constantly amazes me is how companies pull this #$%^ on the web. I hate using a generic term like that...but the world is just too small to fight over your .com name sometimes. this is not like Typosquatting...but more like registering a new domain.
.com after it and your get someones business. That does not make me wrong and evil..we both just used the same name. But, that business could (and there have been cases of it) charge me with squatting or sue me for the rights? Just because he owns a business named after my family name? Imagine the problem this would cause in the US with someone of the last name of Smith!
I, for example, have a site registered for my family that is my last name. However, put a
Now, granted those sites are different and this fandom one is the same sort of content. But this isn't amazon.net, the network of books. This is a commonly used word since 1906 (according to the article). Besides even the evil geniuses at amazon.com allow someone else to own amazon.net. If I remember..there was once a dispute over gateway.com, where the computer company was forced to gw2k.com? Was that so bad? Did people still make it there?
Bottomline, IMHO, there is room enough for all of us out there. Can't we all just get along?
But, according to the article, there is no valid trademark.
Even so, it has to go the the domain name resolution process.
Fight Spammers!
Fight Spammers!
Oh, a wise guy, huh? You are right, this is the stumbling block with a numberic system: the first step of getting a search engine ot directory service. The solution, like the telephone system, is to have a handfull of standard numbers for these services. So http://1/1/1, 1/1/2 , 1/1/3 etc could be assigned to search engines and 1/2/1, 1/2/2 etc to directory services. This would require some administration on behalf of the organisation looking after the assignments, but I don't think it would be too hard.
BTW I only use slashes to divide the numbers in these examples because it reduces the number of people that say "oh, IP addresses", in fact I think dots are better and hold out the possibility of doing the whole thing without changing Bind (v8+).
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I've said before (there would be a link at this point if /.'s search engine was any good) that numbers (in a hierarchy system, eg http://13/1832/7, this is not IPs) are the only solution and got nothing except "I can't remember numbers" back. Like I can!
Letters score over numbers in only one way: advertising. It's a lot easier to read and memorise a name. But the cost is all this cyber-bulling, as the article calls it. Ultimatly the whole point of the DNS structure is going to be lost in that domain owners will effectivly claim the right to use all the TLDs for any given domain name (in the case of Wal-Mart for all possible domain names starting with the letters Wal)
The degree to which the TLDs are already irrelivent is something which /.'ers do not seem to be aware. The namespace in DNS is actually shrinking and, as long as lawyers get money for making it shrink, it will continue to do so until only companies can afford to buy useful domain names.
But, to get back to the numbers, what is so hard about using Google to find something and click on the link? Nothing, and how would it be harder to do that if the url in the link was numeric?
In a similar way, directory portals like Yahoo would still work to most people's satisfaction as would bookmarks and links in pages.
The point I'm making is that a numeric system does not have to require users to memorise huge lists of long numbers.
Using telephone numbers is not a good idea, though.
There is a problem, it is getting worse, if you don't like my solution tell us yours.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I have been campaigning for the TLD of
The USPTO and DoC have given big business the controlled usage of all words.
The authorities have bastardized our language - they have taken all words away from us and make them fit for only one use - only as trademark system. It is a very bad system at that, used by only one supplier of each name, out of thousands worldwide.
Extract of 9 October email to DoC & USPTO:
"Here is an analogy, just for a moment imagine, if you will:
You go to your dictionary and look up definition for the word 'apple'. It says the following:
Apple - a maker of computers. This is the sole meaning; any other use will be a criminal offence."
If Fandom is trademarked name it should be identified as such.
I have been campaigning for the TLD of
The proper use of a trademark - It has to be set apart by special typeface or script. And use "tm" for an unregistered mark and "®" for a registered mark.
The Domain Naming System (DNS) encompasses all words - it is NOT a Trademark System, so requires a tag - like "tm".
The TLD of
Anyone that says the DNS is a TM System is abridging the freedom of speech. Which means they are against the First Amendment.
Something that Secretary Mineta, DoC, seems to be. I have told him so!
You could also ask Paul Mockapetris, creator of Domain Name System. He will tell you it is not a TM System.
Or was not registered as of this writing...
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I run a fan-site myself (although I doubt I'd ever be a target of anything: fandom of Elite and Frontier First Encounters is rather a niche kind of thing to start off with).
But I have to think: what could I do if I was threatened in this way? In reality, not a lot, and sites like fandom.com know this - and use it to their advantage. They know they can steamroller the 'little guys' and they do.
My father told me one thing when I was a kid - concerning company mergers. "Son, in business, there is never a marriage. Only a rape".
When fandom.com picks up a new site - marriage or rape? I would HOPE it would be the former. But it looks like my Dad was right all along...
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
The jury would laugh it out of the court room and "fair use" would result in copyright holders to think twice about submitting these "cease and desist orders".
Burn Hollywood Burn
At the risk of repeating the article, I find it incredibly offensive that Fandom.com would try to pursue this battle, when to anyone with an ounce of common sense they don't have a leg to stand on.
The word "fandom" been around since 1903 (from article) thus, they cannot claim trademark infringement. If they somehow manage to do so, I'm going to register www.chair.com and bang on everyone's doors with cease and desist letters.
As for cybersquatting, that is defined as registering domain names with the express intent of reselling them for profit later. This is something that was *not* done. The site www.fandom.tv is a legitimate fandom site. It reminds me of a story I heard about coca-cola suing some guy somewhere for having www.coke.(ccTLD) Apparently, it was a memorial site for his friend that died from cocaine. Does anyone else remember this?
Gah! This whole thing makes me sick.
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
"Planet" gamers and Gamespy and such sites have been using somewhat less overt coercion to grab the market for game fans for years... when did this become news? I don't know how many great sites operated by individual fans have been gobbled up by these syndicates and turned into worthless joke sites.
;)
Pass the monopoly, please.
-Kasreyn
(Yeah I know this is kinda a weak post but compared to the offtopic flamebait and trolls in this conversation already, it's downright Insightful 5 if ya ask me
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
The .tv top level domain has an entirely seperate trademarks policy which is the responsibility of the country (I forget which) that .tv belongs to.
On a different, not related to the above, note, if Fandom.com is just an organisation of poor, oppressed, non-profitmaking fan sites bunching together to protect themselves against bullying corporations, what the f--- are they doing in .com? That's what .org is for. That's the very definition of .org.
Perhaps I need to register "I-hate-ISPs.net".
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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Perhaps fandom.tv should change over to Oldsmobile.com, I gather that brand is going to be free pretty shortly...
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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
What bothers me more and something that I watch out for is this umbrella'ing of the various sites at one 'official' place for the legal protection specifically mentioned here. Fandom.com is one, but I know several other examples: WB had set up AcmeCity for fan pages with the ability to use graphics and sounds that WB had granted permission. LucasArts set up the Star Wars site for all SW creative efforts. I'm sure there's more. I think from one aspect, this is a great thing, as it shows that said companies realize that fandom DOES exist on the net and it's better to nurture it (with some ability to trim) than to let it run rampent without checks. On the other hand, all they are doing this for is for the publicity and profit, mostly. There's ad banners at most of these pages, and because it's a fandom site, it's really easy to target it. Some sites say the content becomes theirs, even if you leave the site. But again, if there are any other alterior motives, they haven't been made obvious yet.
I've been watching how the commercialization of the net has affect net fandom, and to be truthful, I don't think we've lost much. If you try to put long clips (or whole episodes) of a show on the web, you'll be shut down, but short clips as per fair use tend to be ok. You try to put up images or stories that put characters that shouldn't even be in compromising positions into compromising positions and you'll be hit. You try to make money off the visitors to your site using fair use items, and you'll get a nice letter. But these are all obvious cases of reasonable copyright/trademark protections.
What I'd REALLY like to see, instead of an umbrella'ing of sites, is for the various entertainment companies that hold the copyrights to fandom's programs to create a true contract (you'd have to mail it back in and such signed) whereby you and the studio agree that you have a fan site, and that you'll run it within all the usual provisions of fair use and non-infringing copyright as expected, for non-profit use, but on any server that you want, with the agreement that if you do happen to post something that shouldn't have been, the studio would work it out with you as opposed to immediately taking action (in others, some legal protection). In addition, I'd really like to see studios hire 'fandom correspondents', part-IP lawyers, part webmasters, that would be able to work with independent site owners to determine what is fair use and to make a better connection between the fans of the show and the studio.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Wonder if they're going to go after the misspellings too, like Yahoo.com going after Yaho.com and Yehoo.com.
...because they're in for a shock when they go after femdom.com.
heeh!
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What happens when you outlaw guns
The complainant (fandom.com) must demonstrate that 1) the alleged infringer has a name that is confusingly similar, 2) the alleged infringer has no rights to the name, and 3) the alleged infringer registered in "Bad Faith"
Fandom.tv is confusingly similar, but seems to arguably have rights to the name -- Fandom may be considered too generic a name to be a trademark. (Of course, this all depends on how well the lawyers argue it.)
As for Bad Faith, Fandom.com probably will (in this case) try to prove that Fandom.tv registered the name in order to benefit from the people confusing the too -- that is, their nabbing fandom.com's readers. But that seems a little silly, since who would automatically the .tv instead of the .com?
From the article, there doesn't seem to be a bad faith intent here. So while this does not appear to be cybersquatting, its fuzzy as to what can be proved.
I can spell. I just can't type.
This is TOTALLY ICANN's fault.
ICANN had (and still does have) the opportunity to create a .GTM domain for the EXCLUSIVE use by global trademark holders. They should also set up .USTM, .CATM, .UKTM and so on, domains for national trademark reservation. Use of the .COM, .NET and .ORG should be open and free for all purposes, AND SHOULD BE LEGALLY INSULATED from "Trademark Bullies".
I've been saying this for two years now.
ICANN...WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!!!
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
The comparision with Ford is misleading. A closer example would be if someone owned "cars.com" and someone else started "cars.tv". If you take out a domain name which is a single, non-trademarked generic term (like "Fandom") then though titties if someone else uses it, mate.
And, anyway, the whole point of the TLDs (generic or country codes) is to divide up the namespace and allow this sort of thing. The reason it doesn't work is twats like you don't understand or honour it.
Taking your approach would mean the removal of TLDs: we would just have www.ford or www.ms or whatever, since you are saying that owning a domain in one TLD should be equivalent to owning it in them all.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
:Choosing the exact same domain name and
:registering in the TV domain is sure to
:cause some confusion.
.tv extension anyway, or, for that matter, .biz, .name, .info, or any of the other new ones? If my name is Marty Fandom and I register fandom.name, are they going to come after me? Adding TLDs is pointless if you can't use words that are already being used with .com, .net and .org.
Then what's the point of having a
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