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VIA Samuel 2 Processor Preview
nofx_3 writes: "Viahardware has
a preview up of VIA Cyrix's Samuel 2 core processor. The Samuel 2 is the first .15Micron x86 processor, and has a die size below 50mm2. 3D performance is still lacking, but 2D performance is every bit the Celeron's equal. Also, it requires no active cooling. Sounds like a great Linux Webpad CPU." Remember when AMD was an also-ran instead of the (arguable) price/performance leader? Nice to hear about the smaller players, especially when they're making inexpensive integrated hardware my mom would like to use.
In order for most moms to use a network appliance, it has to be like an appliance. If mom pushes the "Start" button on her microwave, it immediately starts humming. Her TV changes channels when she hits the up/down button. All we need is 28 instances of the e-mail program coming up because it didn't do anything when mom clicked on it the first time - so she continued clicking.
Most moms also don't want a noisy fan running all of the time. A fanless machine is a necessity according to many Internet appliance makers.
Heck, I'll probably buy one for my firewall plus mail/FTP/web server box. The last thing I want is my domain (humble though it may be) going down because the CPU fan died. I also don't need ANY more noise than I already have.
One important thing that most people have forgotten with the new CYrix's, you cant just pop them into any motherboard made for a P3 or celeron.
Well, technially you could, but one thing that has to be present in a motherboard for it to start up, is the processor's microcode in the BIOS.
that is why new BIOS revisions are always coming out saying "now supports this speed celeron or P3" or whatnot. Its not because the motherboard was previously incapable of handling it, but there was no micorocode instructions stored in the BIOS for that revision of the CPU.
Which is exactly why some motherboards needed new BIOS revisions to suport the P3 when it came out, or the CuMines..
they were mainly the same chip, but with diferent microcode, so it needed those instructions before it could properly POST.
Stop over-analyzing your analizations
I think VIA is confused about where it wants to position the new Cyrix chip in the marketplace - heck, I think it's aiming for the wrong marketplace.
Cyrix processors of years past, along with the AMD processors before the K6, have proven that there is no place financially in the desktop market for a CPU line that performs subpar, and whose primary consumer incentive is that it's cheaper. It simply is too easy for the other competitors (Intel, and now AMD) to cut prices on their lower-tier CPUs (the ones that aren't the primary money makers anyway) and just squeeze the newcomer out of the marketplace.
Instead, if VIA is truly aiming at the "computing appliance" market, its competition is the Intel ARM processors, and the Motorola handheld processors as well. They should maybe think about paring down the integrated functions on the processor (as computing appliances probably don't need them anyways) to make the new Cyrix chips even cheaper and less power-hungry to make them both price AND performance competitive with the StrongARMs. They should also stop making comparisons to normal desktop CPUs, because they have a mountain of consumer recognition and recall to climb with the Intel and AMD brands, and they underperform them to boot. Just ask AMD how hard it was to break into the desktop market.
My 2 cents on why VIA's headed in the wrong direction.
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Why is this worth discussing? /. users run x86.
/. users like cheap.
/. users think that excessive cooling requirements are a deal breaker for a CPU (god knows why ;)
A) It's an x86 chip. I'd bet that a full 90+% of
B) It's cheap. I'd bet a full 90+5 of
C) It doesn't need active cooling. A full 90+% of
D) Its runs Linux.
'nuff said.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
A) 3D performance == fp performance for all practical considerations.
B) Why the hell cares about 2D performance? That's more of a graphics card issue than anything else! As for MMX, it's essentially a 2D-only instruction set. Nobody uses integer 3D engines anymore.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Your mobo/CPU combo costs $100. For $150 (including S/H) you can get a 700MHz Thunderbird Athlon +mobo from PriceWatch. That $50 difference really is just noise, and the performance gain by going to an Athlon is staggering.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Intel is in trouble. The Duron is getting SIS chipsets that have built-in everything (video, sound, etc.) and they will kick the Celeron's butt when systems using those chips hit the market. The Thunderbirds will be able to run dual CPUs due to the AMD 760MP chipset that's been announced and sampled (released?). The P4 cannot run dual CPU yet, so the T-Birds will be stealing the high-end while the Durons will be stealing the low-end.
Will the Cyrix hurt Intel? Probably in the laptop market and the embedded market where fanless, low-power chips rule.
Or better: how Deus Ex, Unreal Tournament, Ultima Ascension, Red Alert 2, and Diablo 2 run.
:)
:) Needed a good rant today.
If you can't afford any better a processor than a $50-60 Cyrix, then you're probably not going to be able to afford spending much on other system components. Like a reasonably fast hard drive. Or more than 32M of RAM. Or any non-integrated graphics subprocessor.
So, for the audience this is targetted at(low-cost/power computer purchasers), it makes almost no sense to spend any time or transistors on a good FPU. All those games/benchmarks you mentioned are FPU-intensive. Now, the Cyrix will get its ass kicked in them. But if you can't tell the difference between a $60 Cyrix and a $200 PIII in the applications this chip was designed for(and, more importantly, bought for), what the hell does it matter how well it runs Unreal Tournament?
Thanks
Dave
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
But think about low end computer costs (VERY rough numbers - just to give you an idea of relative costs - remember BOM numbers at least double by the time they reach the customer):
- $60 motherboard etc
- $20 case/power supply
- $40 memory
- $40 disk
- $40 CPU
- $10 kbd/mouse
- $70 monitor
- $20 CD drive
The CPU's only about 13% of the total cost - a cheaper CPU doesn't buy you much in the low end CPU marketplace - but a faster one does - it's hard to compete here.More integration (cpu/north&south bridges/graphics together) is probably the way to go if you want to win the low price point in this market - esp for someone like VIA who already owns all the IP to do it (Cyrix CPU - VIA core logic - S3 graphics)
More likely the web-pad market (if it ever exists) is the plave to go with this
use it as a cigarette lighter, like the old cyrix chips
"Me Ted"
BOSTON SUCKS!
I agree that Via has some nice products: AMD wouldn't be competitive without VIA chipsets. But I have to agree with the parent post: Cyrix processors were terrible as far as quality goes (at least once they reached the MediaGX line and beyond), and I see no reason for a change just because they are being made by a different company. Like I said, the emphasis is still cheap cheap cheap.
The reason Celerons and Durons are nice reliable processors is because they are basically the same technology as their big brothers, the PIII's and Athlons. Intel and AMD in effect subsidize their low-end chips with revenues and technologies from their high-end chips.
On a personal note, I don't think it is possible for any company to sustain a level of quality while aiming exclusively for the low end. E.g. Yugo cars, e-machines, et al. The low end has to be used to increase market share, which drives purchases at the high-end, which are what really funds companies. I still don't see any high-end processors coming out under the Cyrix name. I fully expect the new Cyrix processors to be the same pieces of crap the old Cyrix processors were (but hey, I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised).
Be ot or bot ne ot, taht is the nestquoi.
Is that this uses the exact same socket as a celeron. Even though the duron is cheaper than the celeron, OEM's continue to use the celeron because of it's cheap boards with integrated video and sound. Now here is a processor that is hopefully going to be even cheaper than the duron, with speed close to that of the celeron. Adding in the fact that OEM's don't need to pay the cost of a fan, and I think intel might be in some trouble.
I love going down to the elementary school, watching all the kids jump and shout, but they dont know I'm using blanks.
You haven't read the article. One of the features of the Cyrix CPU is low power usage -- so it would make a bad heat source for a toaster. A Pentium IV, on the other hand...
Sun actually demoed Jini-aware toaster. Don't know what CPU they had in there.
Odd, I think VIA has some nice products, especially chipsets.
Or didn't you read the article?
With this aim in mind, VIA acquired processor manufacturer Cyrix in June of 1999. Shortly after, in August of 1999, VIA snapped up Centaur, design house behind the IDT Winchip processor
Now I'm guessing that the Cyrix CPU team hasn't been integrated with the rest of VIA, but I'm sure information has flowed between the chipset team and the CPU team. Understanding the chipset could make a better processor.
The processor does have a small size, takes less energy to run, and doesn't need a fan, which would help reduce computer noise. Looking at it, I'm guessing its also fairly overclockable. In the article that you seem to have neglected to read, there are benchmarks that demonstrate that a Samuel II's speed is almost identical to a Celery's under most circumstances (excluding 3-D intensive games). It seems to be a very solid cpu for those who aren't into gaming, I would almost be tempted to buy it if I was looking at a low-end machine.
The moral of this story is to read the article next time, then post.
Just my $.02
You contradict to yourself.
If you are right that IT spending is falling fast than Duron, Cyrix and the low end transmeta are going to be looked at. For purely financial reasons. Some companies have finally started cownting and considering does it really worth for the department secretary to use a 1GHz PIII.
And know what - I am happy to see that.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
okay, so we got the P4, the next AMD and Crusoe [which seems to be a flop].
All new, all advanced.
Now we got a no-name come up with a chip that possibly is as good as a Celeron. Possibly.
And that thing is released as the press is talking the stock-market into a continued down-slide and the economy into a crash landing.
Two main issues:
Firstly, if the public continues to follow whatever tabloids write in their investment decissions rather than analyzing fundamentals, then this chip will be a no-go, because IT spending is falling fast and so are IT related investments.
Secondly, if the chip is only as good as a Celeron [which remains to be proven], then a low price will not be enough to ensure it's success.
Intel is likely to drop it's prices for Celerons if it feels threatenedd. As the Intel already has recouped the development costs for the Celeron many times over, they can afford to flood the market and push the new player in a corner.
Had the new chip been released 10 months ago, it would have been a winner. But as the economic downturn looms, they should have waited until panic spreads and released it then as a cheaper alternative.
Releasing it now is strategic idiocy because it's too late for the public market [which will start the next shopping spree in about three months] and to early for the commercial market [which is unlikely to change their budget planning for the next year in order to save $100 on a chip]
Whoever is advising the 'New Kid on the Board' in marketing and sales should be cruzified, stoned, quartered, torched and then sent to college...
Hehehe :) I'd like to see you run the latest Windows or even an older Red Hat on a 486 with little memory. Unless you're going to restrict her to web-based browsing and out-of-date productivity software, you're going to be killing that little computer.
Now, personally, I'm likely to buy one of these chips. Why? Because I like things that don't make a lot of noise. I have three computers in the room I sleep in, and it's getting difficult. If I can replace my routing box with something that's completely fanless(even w/o a harddrive - root partition loaded into ramdisk from CD, lots of memory), then I'm likely to buy it. Right now I'm running a P100, and it's got a fan that's a fair bit louder than what I'd like. Not to mention the fact that the harddrive is always spinning because of logfiles and such.
Anyways, you get the point. While this may never be more than a niche processor(certain low-power/low-noise usages, ie: webpads, PDAs, notebooks, extremely inexpensive PCs), that doesn't mean it can't be a success. If they don't spend three or four billion dollars making a new plant to manufacture these things, then they could make a fair bit of profit off it, too.
Dave
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
For some reason people just would not stop calling it "Athalon". Never really understood why. Reading and spelling is just so simple.
Zigbee Central: A Zigbee weblog
Interesting numbers would be :how fast does it
compile a Linux/BSD kernel ,X,KDE ,whatever ,
how fast Netscape6 loads,...how do they plan to
get rid of the Cyrix "good name "....?!
The best way to escape from a problem is to solve it. Alan Saporta