Slashdot Mirror
Is The U.S. No Longer The Choice For Freedom?
"I've been keeping my eye on other nations as places to live, and tallying whether they are cutting down on their citizens' freedoms, as well as whether they seem likely to be in any wars in the next 50 years... I'm personally getting tired of living in a nation where apparently no one in the capital city has read its constitution, or gives a damn. Where everyone elected to high political office breaks the oath they all take, to uphold and protect that same constitution.
I'd love to hear what my fellow Slashdotters have to say on the subject. If not the U.S., then where should I go? Please, no national biases, give me some actual info about places worth living. I'd like to get some ideas on this NOW though, so that if I decide to leave I can get out before doing so becomes a problem. (Did I mention I'm probably too paranoid about this?)"
to buy your own politician. It's really cheap in Latin America, expensive in the US/Europe.
and it's probably going to continue getting worse until more people get involved in the political process. This last election was the first time I have ever endeavoured to get involved, and with the way it turned out, it really let me down and made me lose even more faith in the system.
That, and the fact that anyone who would make good candidate material has too many skeletons in the closet that they are afraid of the media uncovering. I know that if when I was older I decided that I had what it takes to hold office I would never run because I have done some bad things in my time that I would NEVER want exposed to the world.
This is not meant inflammatory but I'm really irritated by this statement: Is the United States still the best choice of a place to live for safety, freedom, and quality of life?
Do you really mean that? What led you to believe that this ever was the case?
I really have trouble grasping this US sense of patriotism.
Seriously, I'm just curious...
That said, if there is a country that would be able to pull it off with little or no bloodshed, it's the US. More realistically then the previous suggestion, stay here and keep fighting the good fight. With the American system, it is possible to win, just not easy. (It's never easy under any system.)
If I left Vancouver, it is highly unlikely I'd move to the US. I'd probably make a break for Copenhagen, London, or Hamburg instead.. those Europeans are much more enlightened in the ways of what Truly Matters in Life than us North Americans.
I adblock all animated gifs.
Blessed be the prime numbered slashdotters
The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill (aptly acronymed RIP) basically allows the UK government to snoop on any Internet traffic at the ISP level, with a suitable warrant from a senior police officer.
Yes, there are ways around it (PGP, create your own mailserver, sign up with overseas ISP or ZeroKnowledge), but the average Internet user will now be leaving a trail behind them that can be used in evidence against them.
Oh, and by the way - this law isn't being debated. It's been passed.
[This post may contain factual errors. Please feel free to correct them.]
Has Microsoft taken away your right to form a militia? Has Pepsi told you what religion to practice? Has Exxon tried to force you to harbor soldiers against your will? Which basic rights have the corporations take away from you? Yes, companies are suing individuals left and right over so-called intellectual property rights. However, these suits have yet to be challenged in the Supreme Court and set as precedent. To answer your question, yes, there are possible countries that are more free than the US. However, I believe you'll be hard pressed to find one. Exactly what rights are looking for?
Saftey - is the right not to be harmed for speaking your mind.
Freedom - is the ability to be heard by people if you speak.
Quality of life - is what you make of it, if the first two don't address your concerns.
However, it's the "freedom" issue that bothers me. In any sort of a media state (like the US, but not only the US) opposing viewpoints get no recognition. If you have something different to say, you're told to go elsewhere, to find the minority who agree with you. In ages past, philosophers, thinkers, novelists, and writers all had the ability to have their works disseminated over a wide base to people who didn't already agree with the ideas. That's no longer the case when the media controls the distribution.
What this means is that every media state ends up a bit like Brave New World, i.e. banishing those who speak and think independently. Thus, there is no freedom. BNW was not the picture of a free society, despite the option of exile.
So, where's the freedom? There is none. Saftey? In the US, sure, you can get physical saftey. It's irrelevant without freedom.
And, like I said, if the first two aren't enough to you, then quality of life is what you make of it.
The United States (although somewhat corrupt at times) is the only place that I can actually say is stable, inexpensive, and mostly free.
.02
I complain about the government and the assholes who tend to be in office, but for the most part it really hasn't affected me all that much yet. I would rather live here than Kosovo or Russia, etc. At least here I don't have to worry about political struggles that will completely change my way of life or even kill me.
To address your point of biases... Most people are going to tell you to live where they do b/c that is where they are comfortable living...
Just my worthless
For instance, if you want to own a gun, it's hard to beat the US.
If you wish to practice Scientology, stay away from Germany.
I hear Canada has strange porn laws, you can probably find harder porn in the US (I'm talking dead tree porn here).
If you're a woman (I know, only about 5% of Slashdot) there are a lot of countries that are less enlightened about women's rights than the US.
If you will obviously stick out as a foreigner, there are other countries you may want to stay away from.
If you desire sexual freedom, stay away from highly religious countries, like Ireland, which bans abortion and may have birth control restrictions.
Sorry this isn't more help, but you've asked a very broad question.
The reason is that the trend toward the dominaiton commercial interest in almost every field is a global one, and as such, no technologically advanced country is safe. If a country were to chose to push for individual freedom over the interest of large corporations, it might well find itself excluded from the technological progress that these corporations bring. As such many nations might be "scared" into giving away the pie.
The U.S. is the one country that has little to fear in this respect. For a company with a global vision, excluding the American marketplace is not an option, and therefore America is in a better position to protect the interests of its citizens.
So while it might happen that some concessions to the corporate world are made, i think that US has the best chance of any country in this battle, should they chose to undertake it.
Ñ'
Also, I can't see how things would be better in other countries. Things always seem rosy from far away, but it doesn't seem like that when you get there! For example, people always talk of Holland and the EU as being free places to live these days, while ignoring the huge democratic deficit at the heart of the EU that Holland and other European countries have to confirm to.
The simple fact is that most Countries around the world have their own problems regarding freedom, and I don't see how the USA is uniquely better or worse in any area.
Speaking for myself, the things I like about America are its Constitution which safeguards certains rights. But as a European, and a Scot at that, I am a wee bit uncomfortable at the lack of a National Health Service that is government funded and the Gun laws make me nervous too, but that is only to be expected.
There are always trades and balances! :o)
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
If you're really interested in keeping the same standard of living as you're getting in the US, you've only got a few choices, namely the EU, the US, Canada, and a few countries in Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore, and Japan notably).
For Asia, you're dealing with a situation which might seem like it offers more things like privacy, but have much less open political processes (like Singapore) which might actually reduce your overall level of freedom.
For the EU, while you'll get more chance to protect your privacy (the EU is much more forward thinking than the US when it comes to individual rights), many EU countries offer MUCH less than the US when it comes to the conventional US perspective on personal freedom (higher taxes, more government regulation, bizantine regulation on things the US takes for granted [like shop opening hours in Germany and the lack of a Bill of Rights in the UK]). So while you might get some things, you give up others in return.
So it depends on what your personal tradeoff is. If you're most concerned with fighting your perceived corporatism, you want to leave. If you're mostly interested in your personal liberty, you probably want to stay.
I can't really comment that much on Canada....can someone else fill in the gaps?
But the entire question is completely moot, as national standards have completely removed your ability to emigrate to anywhere which is a developed economy (while you can LEAVE the US pretty easily, you can't go TO anywhere else). So you're pretty much stuck here regardless.
Every country may not be quite a bad as ours, but they are all heading that direction, and it is only a matter of time. I guess you could move to Cuba! At least right now, in the US, citizens have some rights and protection from the authorities, even if certain forces are constantly lobbying to reduce our rights and freedoms. I would still rather live in a place where the press is free to report what they want, even if the press is almost entirely dominated by corporate interests, and where cops have to at least call a judge before breaking down my door to confiscate my belongings.
I certainly wouldn't mind if my tax dollars went to services that I actually felt I needed, but then I wouldn't have to spend my after tax dollars on the very consumables I should have subsidized by my government, and that might cut into corporate profits. God forbid I should spend a couple dollars a day on public transport, rather than $20,000+ dollars on a car plus maintenance, insurance, and petroleum costs (and pollution). But that's just my opinion. Ask this question again in 4 years, and we will see just how bad our new friend in the white house has made things.
the world is only a limited number of steps away from UN domination
Woah, woah, woah, there, pardner! I reckon you have the wrong letter in there. Shouldn't it read, "the world is only a limited number of steps away from US domination"? From my perspective, anyway, untainted by rumours of Zurich Gnomes, the ZOG, and other Z-things (including Zundel), the UN is pretty ineffectual and hardly does anything -- at least not compared to the US Government, which has its tentacles in too many international pies to count; various and sundry US-based/spawned trans- or multinational corporations, and "organizations" like ICANN. Based on that evidence, I'd say the latter version of that first statement is closer to some version of Reality[TM] than the former.
As to the original poster's question about places where you might want to live, I'd suggest Canada (of course) -- can UNESCO surveys really be that wrong? -- and Iceland, which, going by recent developments in R&D, "green" technology, and business over there, is going to be kicking our collective North American @$$es around the block in a few years.
Note on the former: Don't plan on going to either of those places if you don't like the cold and/or don't like paying taxes. My suggestion on the former, though, is to wear layers (it's -23 C outside my window this afternoon), and my suggestion on the latter is that generally you get what you pay for...particularly in places like Canada and Iceland.
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
As an American citizen, I am disappointed with the direction I see my nation heading. However, I still believe it to be one of the best in which to live in regards to the protection of basic rights. The question that now presents itself is, Who is to blame? Many wish to blame government, while others wish to blame big business. This may very well be true, but I place much of the blame on the very citizens of this country. In spite of what some people may think, more and more power has been given to the voters over the many years of this country. It is our right, and duty, to vote, and to do so intelligently. In my experience, the average American just doesn't care about what is going on about them. The attitude of a number of my fellow co-workers is, "It doesn't matter who I vote for, they are all going to screw me." This leads to the "why vote at all" attitude. This then leads to even more atrophy of the democratic system as it allows money, not principles, to buy votes. While I admit that money will always have power, the power of social momentum should not be overlooked. In the end, for America to become/remain the greatest country of all, the citizens must take action on a large scale and help to mold the country into what they wish it to be. There are many dangers in this, but there are also many great rewards. Let us thank the founding fathers for their far reaching sight. God Bless America.
I recently moved in Bern and I'd give anything to stay. :-)
Swiss are friendly, they care for you and they are the best educated people I've ever met.
The tax system is comfortable and because of their neutrality, you can be sure no political issue will make people threaten you because of your ideas.
BTW, if you love fresh air and innovant people, this is definitely a good choice provided you accept the rules.
As a French, I however wouldn't fight for the French but rather for the Swiss which peaceful spirit makes life here a Paradise.
It's also quite a tempered country where you won't get a cold, despite some rumours spread by the collegues I had in Duesseldorf (Germany) where the weather might have been the most horrible I subished.
So, 2 thumbs up for the Swiss
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
So, what DOES a Canadian Have to be Proud of?
.........OOOOoohhhhh Canada!! Eh!!! ;)
1. Smarties
2. Crispy Crunch
3. Coffee Crisp
4. The size of our footballs, fields and one less Down
5. Lacrosse is Canadian
6. Hockey is Canadian
7. Basketball is Canadian
8. Mr. Dress-up can kick Mr. Rogers ass
9. Tim Hortons kicks Dunkin' Donuts ass
10. In the war of 1812, Canadians pushed the Americans so far back...passed their 'White House', we burned it... and most of Washington, under the command of William Lyon McKenzie who was insane and hammered all the time. We got bored because they ran away so we came home and partied... Go figure.
11. Canada has the largest French population that never surrendered to Germany.
12. We have the largest English population that never-ever surrendered or withdrew during any war.
13. Our civil war was a big bar fight that lasted a little over an hour.
14. The only person who was arrested in our civil war was an American mercenary, who slept in and missed the whole thing...but showed up just in time to get caught.
15. We knew plaid was cool far before Seattle caught on.
16. The Hudson's Bay Company once owned over 10% of the earth's surface and is still around as the world's oldest Company.
17. The average dog sled team can kill and devour a full grown human in under 3 minutes.
18. We still know what to do with all the parts of a buffalo.
19. We don't marry our kin-folk.
20. We invented ski-doos, jet-skis, velcro, zippers, zambonis,the long distance and short wave radios that save countless live each year.
21. We ALL have frozen our tongues to something metal and lived to tell about it.
22. Oh ya...and the handles on our beer cases are big enough to fit your hands with mitts on.
If by freedom, you mean the ability to affect change as a private citizen, then I think the U.S. is still far and away the most 'free' country on the planet. It's FAR from perfect, but we don't have military coups even when our election process is completely hosed. Any private nutcase (hello, Mr. Perot) can run for president, and might even do well (assuming he's _not_ a nutcase, that is).
You can find countries with better & socialized health care systems (and _much_ higher taxes), you can find countries with much better public education (and _much_ higher taxes). There are some countries with better stances on citizen privacy, crypto controls, and the like, but when you get right down to it, you have to take the whole of a country, not just their stance on one or two issues. And you must consider how feasible it is to affect change in that country, as mentioned above.
The U.S. has pretty good healthcare (though obviously corrupt and with a focus on after-the-fact rather than preventative care), our taxes are pretty low, we've got welfare, social security, and medicare (though those could all be overhauled pretty seriously). We've got okay public education (though thanks to 'local control', it varies wildly. Our food & fuel prices are among the lowest, also.
Grass-roots initatives are gaining in popularity (at least, they're going crazy here in the Seattle area) - anyone can start one (hello, Tim Eyman), and they often pass.
I think many people feel disenfranchised in the U.S. simply because they don't understand how the system works, and that they CAN make a difference if they have the right idea, and put in a lot of work.
As far as the political machine goes, the most obvious problem is the two party system. I'm of a mind that it should be a NO PARTY system. If you belong to a party, your loyalties go to that party, not to the people who elected you. Is every stance by your party going to be good for those that voted you in? Not hardly! Campaign finance reform needs to be done immediately, too, to minimize corruption. (Help! Help! I'm being repressed!) Something I thought was interesting was when people were 'vote swapping' via websites before the election and all the politicans were aghast at that - vote swapping, imagine that! Well, just what do you think EVERY SINGLE POLITICIANS DOES whenever they want something passed? "Sure, I'll vote for your upcoming nuke-the-whales bill if you vote for my guns-for-tots bill." And let's not even get into the people who influence politicans for a living (LEGALLY!). Yes, there's a lot wrong with the system, but the underlying freedom to change it is vast.
And what about our legal system? Now _there's_ a fucked-up mess! Instead of trying to find the 'truth' of an issue, instead we have a battle between who has the best lawyer (hi there, O.J.). And the death penalty is ridiculous considering we don't have a way of verifying _absolutely_ whether someone is telling the truth or not. Even people who confess to crimes are sometimes lying, for various reasons. You'd think videotape would be enough to convict someone of a crime, but that's apparently not the case (hello Rodney King-beating police officers). Until such time as we can absolutely, 100.000% verify whether someone has committed a crime, the death penalty should not be an option. On the other hand, keep in mind that many prison inmates have better living conditions than U.S. military field personnel do (a fact - a friend of mine was in the Gulf, and this pisses him off no end, apparently). You'd think the idea of prisons being self-supporting would be an obvious one, but I guess not. There is apparently no such thing as 'common sense'. Too bad.
Now, often when I get on a tirade like this, some dufus brings up something about how the Founding Fathers intended this or that. Completely ridiculous. First, the Founding Fathers were hardly saints - many of them owned slaves (including Thomas Jefferson, who had more to do with creating our governmental structure than anyone), plus they were all part-time politicians, and had intended that to be the case in the future for others. They had no knowledge of what this country would be like over 200 years later, but they put a process in place to change the Constitution - the process of amending the constitution. It's even been done several times already (though not for a long time). They obviously INTENDED the Constitution to be modified over time. Talk about foresight! I think their taking their own fallibility into account when creating this country was probably THE best thing they did.
Okay, that's enough - I'm tired of typing right now.
Use fertilizer. Really I wouldn't normally comment on something like this but this time, as someone who has lived in far worse places than the US, I feel I must.
One of the problems with /. and with the media in general is that the only things that ever get talked about are negative. Here at /. we worry about corporations taking our freedom especially in the area of computers. This is good, because someone has to do it. But in reality, those of use living in the US have it pretty good, and most of the stuff that gets posted on /. gets horribly skewed by raging paranoia.
A few things to remember:
- Corporations want to make money no matter where in the world they are
- Corporation will bend laws to make money no matter who it hurts
- Greed will ensure that rule 1 and 2 always exist
We can't have it both ways. We let the gov't control all production and we'll end up like Russia.As for the US government I'm a little annoyed by the idea in this article that none of them have even read the constitution. This is not at all true. I have met several of my own representatives and I truely believe that they are trying to do what they feel is best for the people. Those of us reading /. and using Linux need to understand that most people out there just want to have nice homes, families, and jobs and make money. They don't want to worry about the l33t h@X0rs trying to get into their computers. The lawmakers aren't trying to take our freedom. They are trying to give people what they want. Average Joe windoze user doesn't understand that legislation will do nothing to effect what's on the Internet.
So back to my original comment. If the grass is greener on the other side, use fertilizer. Move to italy but it won't change anything. Educate the people that vote for your government and change everything. You don't like corporations, don't buy what the sell. Sadly everyone complains about the phone company, the internet service but no one stops buying it. I guess here in america we can't live without those things.
I've lived in a 3rd world country, people dont' have the right to get a decent meal everyday much less 3 and much less the ability to speak out freely about their conditions. But you know, a lot of those people are happy anyway. Maybe the best thing that could happen for us here in america is if we put away our fax machines, phones, pagers and computers for awhile and try to see what's really important, probably cut down on the problems with snooping greeding corporations as well.
Never knock on Death's door:
The Anti-Blog
child pornography has been found to be protected under free speech laws
This isn't true; it's (at best) based on a half-truth..
Kiddie porn is illegal under bill C-128, which is an amendment to Canada's criminal code.
The courts ruled that the wording of bill C-128 violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (our constitution.) The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does more that just guarantee free speech.
The reason that the courts ruled that it violated the Charter is because the bill is badly written. It makes an overly-broad definition of the term "child pornography", and severly limits who is allowed to "possess" it (it's not completely illegal.) The part the BC supreme court had a problem with (specifically) is that the definition of child porn includes nude pictures of anyone pretending to be under the age of 18, or writing that describes sexual acts with anyone under the age of 18.
In their ruling, the judge specifically singled out the written part, saying (correctly) that if someone were to write down a personal fantasy of a fictional account they could be thrown in jail, and "this comes dangerously close to infringing on freedom of thought" (quoting from memory, it's been ahwile since I read the breif).
The problem stems from Mulroney's conservative government, who passed the bill even after they were told that the wording was flawed.
If the damn liberal government was really serious about this crap, they would re-write the law, and address the issues mentioned in the judge's ruling.
I'd like to be free to keep more than 50% of my income, without having it all go to taxes to support dubious socialist programs that I'll never make use of, because I *work* for a living.
I'd like to be free not to have my government try to reduce my standard of living to that of the lowest common denominator.
I'd like to be free to say what I want - even though I probably wouldn't exercise that freedom - without the Canadian government telling me that what I say is obscene, unfair or unjust, and therefore proving that I have freedom of speech to a point, similar to the way that China has freedom of speech to a point.
I'd like to be free to drive on roads without jackasses talking on cellphones reversing on freeways because they've missed their exits.
I'd like to be free to know that upon returning to Canada, the Canadian Customs agents will treat me as well as the friendly, chipper, informative, helpful and welcoming American Customs staff always do.
I'd like to be free to live in a country where national unity is not a central issue to every political decision.
I'd like to be free to live in a country where I can pay for health care that doesn't leave me sitting in an emergency room for three hours waiting for a Keflex prescription for strepped throat, while homeless heroin-addicts with needles broken off in their arms come in after me, sit beside me, play show-and-tell with their pus, and then get served before I do, despite the fact that I'm a tax payer and they're not.
I'd like to be free to live in a land where what is played on TV and radio stations is based on market demands, not on CRTC 40% Canadian Content regulations, forcing broadcasters to play the same really lame Tragically Hip songs and poorly lit Canadian TV shows over and over again.
Most of all, I'd like to be free to go outside without fearing for my life for 5 months of the year. I don't define quality of living by habitating in a place where you can die simply from going outside without a jacket on.
I'd like to be free to live in a land where the politicians don't waste millions of dollars trying to figure out why all of Canada's best, brightest and most talented are moving to the United States, while the problems are so obvious and mostly rectifiable.
And finally, I'd like to be free to post this comment without being moderated down by someone who simply disagrees with me; rather, I'd like to be moderated down if I've said anything untrue about Canada.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
A trifle slow is not the experience that my friends in Canada have had with the postal serivce. They tell me that 3 to 5 weeks is about typical for the mail. Towns near the border of BC actually have huge numbers of PO boxes registered to Canadians.
I don't know much personally about the health care system, but I have heard personal horror stories about both the health care and car insurance systems from residents and people just working in Canada.
Governments intrude on your freedom in many ways, but the thing that really makes people slaves are their own internal attitudes. The greatest freedom you can have is freedom of thought, and it is the hardest to obtain. It's no use being able to say or hear whatever you like if you've been indoctrinated to only believe what you want to believe. People are rarely prevented from doing what they wish by anything other than their own internal constraints, their (possibly warped) sense of right and wrong, and most of all their unspoken fears (of discovery, punishment, what others will think etc etc).
By all means go and live elsewhere, the main benefit will not be throwing off government constraints but exposing yourself to different viewpoints. If and when you return the experience will give you greater freedom than if you had stayed at home.
As an example - US media is enormously one-sided. Not through any government or corporate mandated conspiracy but because of a strange vicious cycle. People are most likely to listen to what they want to hear - they generally don't want to hear stuff that portrays America as anything other than the best place on earth, and since they have been told that all their lives that America represents everything good they are rather suspect of something telling them otherwise, they're less likely to believe it.
Now, every nation on earth is taught it's own version of history, the bits that reflect well on that country are emphasised, but this occurs to extraordinary extent in US.
In order to obtain greater internal freedom, you would probably be well advised to move somewhere less free. The UK is becoming a police state more rapidly than US (thanks Jack Straw...) so I think it would be a good place for you to move - it has an interesting mix of less free and more free. For instance, it's perfectly legal to walk down the street drinking a bottle of whiskey, or even to drive a car while drinking whiskey (as long as you are under the limit). Also, the strangest example of lack of freedom I saw in the US was going to the beach at night was illegal ("The beach is closed" !! What the fuck ??). However, the real benefit of moving to England is that you will encounter an ignorant closed mindset in many people that can rival that found in many Americans, but is different and will thus be more striking - it should help you identify similar mental slavery in yourself and others. For greater benefits, move somewhere even less free and even more strange - Singapore might be good.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
You can't have safety and freedom, even at the cost of QoL. The measures used to guarantee safety are, when overextended, what kill freedom. The relationship of these two to quality of life is something I'm not going to speculate on.
Wow -- you need to put away the keyboard and mouse and go read Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations
Capitalism is about moving things from lesser value to higher value. For example, you're a wheat farmer, I'm a chicken farmer. I give you a chicken for a bundle of wheat. Chickens aren't as valuable to me as wheat is, since I've got a few hundred around. Wheat is growing into your bedroom window, you're glad to get rid of some of it. We've just increased each other's wealth, and nobody's worse off for it.
Money is just an easier way of carrying around a sackful of chickens.
If Adam Smith is too thick for you to read, try P.J. O'Rourke's Eat the Rich
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
While I am an unrepentant Canadian, I have traveled on both sides of the pond, I've been through the US on more that one occasion and I've been in New York City since '95. That has provided me with some perspective.
The major political systems here and abroad, are republican systems parliementary systems or monarchic. These are all more alike than not. (If you have to RUN for office or STAND for it or get knighted for it, its still the same. Its NOT democratic. Get that foolishness right out of your head.)
But all the political systems want is to try to insure that you don't stray too far, pay your taxes and avoid hurting anybody. They want your loyalty and are willing to compromise to get it (armed revolution has taught them some lessons and some humility after all.)
The real worry is corporate machination, unfettered by reason or treason and guided by the morals of people who dump waste where YOU eat, pour waste in YOUR water and have only an eye on the next quarterly earnings (or the outcome of the next great five year plan in the late and unlamented Soviet regime.)
Corporations will justify anything for the bottom line. Corporations have absolutely no morals, no conscience and neither heart nor head.
They don't care, they really DON'T CARE about how many people get killed, maimed and ruined by their corporate lack of conscience.
Corporationism can readily weigh profits versus the volume of lawsuits resulting from injuries caused by the products of shoddy workmanship.
Corporationism can readily sell crack to kids while forcing them to fuck for food and shove me and thee to wage-slave jobs in the "maquiadoras" by rationalizing that they are merely "filling a need."
As someone I knew put it, "It doesn't matter whether your pimping pots and pans or pot and pussy, you're still a pimp."
The internet is being dismantled by people who want to stop paying anything to produce any content but make you pay everytime you access the same old content, over and over, because its gravy, all gravy.
The political borders are merely inconvenient fictionalities because of different taxation rules to evade.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
the right to murder, yes, very important to me.
If you wish to practice Scientology, stay away from Germany.
if you wish to practice Islam, Hinduism, Wicca, Atheism, or any other non-Christian religion, better stay away from the whole middle and southern US.
I hear Canada has strange porn laws, you can probably find harder porn in the US (I'm talking dead tree porn here).
of course you can't hear or see anything that might piss off the puritans on TV or radio in the US, even at 3 o'clock in the morning. and just try buying any music or video that's remotely controversial .. hope you live in a major metropolis which has more than the major chains, otherwise you're out of luck
If you're a woman (I know, only about 5% of Slashdot) there are a lot of countries that are less enlightened about women's rights than the US.
i guess, but i can't think of a country who sells more cultural sex than the US.
If you will obviously stick out as a foreigner, there are other countries you may want to stay away from.
yes but you are welcome to come here and pump our gas or clean our toilets.
If you desire sexual freedom, stay away from highly religious countries,
what like the US? virginia still has laws prohibiting oral sex, sex before marriage, and any kind of sex other than standard missionary position. hope you're not a homosexual, too, cuz for some dumb reason we like to herrangue them about their sexual promiscuity then prevent them from legally binding themselves to a single permanent partner. i just don't get why 85% of americans are against gay marriage.
i could live a little longer in this prison
It's the only place safe from becoming a victim of American foriegn policy.
Brian
Ask your armies and your police. The have guns, right? I am no less trustworthy, and my life not worth less than, a cop or a soldier; why should I not then avail myself of the same tools to defend myself, should that become necessary?
If you nations beleives that, then I suggest you urge your government to have its armed forces melt down all it firearms and start training with longbows instead.
Yes, they managed to kill some of the thugs who illegally attacked them. (Sure, the Branch Davidians were wackos, but they had been peaceful wackos until state and federal paramilitary "law enforcement" went after them for no well-defined reason.) Of course they lost, but they gave serious pause to other thugs with badges.
Democracy is, at its base, nothing but a substitute for violent conflict. All other things being equal, the side with more combatants wins, right? So instead of killing each other, we'll agree to let the bigger side prevail this time, and all go home unbloodied. Much more civilized.
But there's nothing to enforce that agreement other than the losing side knowing that it's smaller. If the smaller side gains an advantage - say, they have all the guns - there's nothing at all to keep them from breaking that agreement.
Or, as some wag once put it: Democracy is defended by three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Normally I never post unless there's only about 300 comments, but I'm breaking my rule due to this question striking SOOOOO close to home.
/keeping/ their power to /expanding/ their power (well, except at election time). PJ O'Rourke phrased it that a politician's income isn't money but power, and he will seek to increase his power income just as you or I would seek to increase our money income. And that any politician who claims he wants to reduce the size and scope of government is saying he's going to sneak up on himself and steal his own wallet. If the framework of a nation had no mechanism for corporations to lobby for favors, protection, etc, "corporate power" would be a non-issue. Why are patents causing problems? They are a government grant of priviledge, not based on a natural right (I oppose intellectual property in all forms, based on economic analysis). Remember when RAM prices shot through the roof for a while? Micron implored the FTC to impose a tariff on RAM imports because foreign vendors were supposedly "dumping" their wares in our market (which was of course bullshit). If the feds didn't have the power to levy tariffs, that couldn't have happened. "Tax breaks" for corporations and "the rich" (BTW, I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe the top 5% income-wise pay over 75% of total income taxes in the US. The poor and middle class pay so relatively little taxes, that ANY significant tax cut will, *cough*, "benefit the rich") wouldn't seem so evil if we put in perspective how many times more we pay in taxes than the founding fathers ever reasonably expected.
;) Russia is somewhat similar this way. If you look at their laws, you could barely tell their not still communist. But everyone ignores the government. The majority of the Russian economy is conducted on the black market. The small nation of Monaco, if I'm informed correctly, has no taxes. But it's a tourist country, so everything is expensive, and you'd have to learn French :(. And in fact, that's my biggest trouble, is learning a new language. Believe it or not, the US is actually pretty well in front when it comes to freedom among English-dominant countries. The UK has high taxes, gov't control of many industries, and Nazi gun laws (which its former colonies, Australia and New Zealand, have copied). Canada is similar, in that it's only a little bit worse (what with worse gun laws, higher taxes, and socialized medicine). I was sorta thinking Switzerland. Lots of English speakers, a long tradition of firearms, and the world's greatest banking system.
;) But I think we can all agree that leaving the country is more practical than waiting for /that/ to happen...
I share your fears. I've been pondering the question of fleeing the tyranny of the United Socialist States of America for quite some time now. It's amazing any of us today know what real freedom IS considering we've barely had any since the New Deal gutted the soul of America. If the Founding Fathers rose from their graves, they might recognize the geography, but the nation would be alien.
At any rate.
Remember to lay blame where blame is due. A corporation cannot strip any of our freedoms without at least the implicit cooperation of government. Only governments have the legal power to use violence against peaceful people, and so any time you lose a right, you lose it to a gov't. And a little historical reflection will demonstrate this to be the rule, not the exception. The prime concern of Machiavelli's Prince was not the welfare of the people but the maintenance of his own power. Modern subjects are far less revolutionarily inclined that 16th century Italians, so our politicians can shift their goal from
But that's not really the point.
South American countries strike me as being good options. On the face of it, they try to be as socialist as every where else. But pragmatically, their governments are so weak and thinly spread, that if you find yourself a quiet corner of nowhere to live (Banos, Ecuador, a wonderful little hot springs town, comes to mind...) you can pretty much live how you like. However, it's hard to get good 'net access in these countries
Of course, things in the US might get better before they get worse, if we say, elected a Libertarian president
MoNsTeR
"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons."
Feodor Dostoevski, Russian novelist, 1821-1881
By this standard, one might be better off in Russia, even with its huge incarceration rate and multi-drug resistant TB epidemic in its prisons, than in the US.
Here's why:
In 1994 there were 14,300 victims in the jails at any time and that 290,000 males were victimized in jail every year, 192,000 of them penetrated. Once "turned out," a victim is earmarked for constant further assaults. With a repeat rate very conservatively estimated at every other day, and counting gang-rapes as a single incident, this gives at least 7,150 sexual victimizations a day in jails.
Nine per cent of the hetersexuals had been raped; 7.8% of them had been anally and 5.7% orally penetrated, but white heterosexuals were 2 to 3 times as likely to have been penetrated than black heterosexuals.
In 1996, released prisoners made up 17% (39,000 cases) of the total number of US AIDS cases and 13.1% to 19.3% of all people with HIV infection (98,000 to 145,000).
Russia and the United States lead the world in their use of incarceration. Russia jails 690 people per 100,000 citizens, while the U.S. rate is 600 per 100,000. The U.S. rate is higher than at any previous time, and it is 6 to 10 times higher than the rate of Western European nations.
The US incarceration rate has more than tripled since 1980.
A THIRD of the Russian prison population, about 350,000 inmates, will be released this year.
An estimated 4 million Americans are infected with the hepatitis C virus (HCV), with between 20 percent to 60 percent of the nation's 2 million prisoners infected.
Seastead this.
5) Internationally, Americans are considered ignorant, rude, bossy, and vain.
...
Contrast with Canadians, who are considered internationally as polite and friendly;
There is no exaggeration here. I have many friends that have travelled to countries abroad (especially Europe) and the best advice they gave me is to keep a Canadian flag visible at all times. The amount of contempt for Americans in Europe is beyond belief in some countries.
I guess being a "bully" doesn't pay off all of the time, "eh"?
----- rL
We don't have it that much better. Just like the US, our rights are dwindling away.
/.'er pointed our Constitution doesn't even give us the right to own property!
Americans might be under attack from colossal corporations who have the politicians bought and paid for. But in Canada we get to be under attack from our own government, who, exept for one day every 3-5 years, gets to impose their socialist policies without any fear of opposition.
In recent history we've had increasing measures that turn innocent people into criminals (Digital Media levies, the firearms registry). We have a government that wants to control every aspect of Canadians lives (national daycare, hostility to privately-run health care). Hell, they even control what we see or hear (CRTC, CBSC). And be careful if you voice your dissent, we've got us an election gag law that puts restricts private citizens' ability to run political ads.
On top of all that, as one astute
I love my country, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But the way things are headed has me concerned.
VENI! VIDI! VICI!
In the US, we've had all kinds of stupid campaign finance laws passed since the Nixon administration, and things have only gotten worse here. It doesn't work, nor is there any evidence in the world that it works.
I never said there were no good sides to sharing. OBVIOUSLY sharing is good. What I actually said was that "forced sharing...is the antithesis of freedom".
Note the adjective "forced" a property which, in itself, provides none of the benefits you list. Also note that the forced aspect is antithetical to FREEDOM. It may very well be GOOD, but it's not FREE.
--
MailOne
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
>our election process is completely hosed.
Variations of this was heard again and again during the recent election fiasco. I seems many Americans actually believe that their country is the only one in the world who would not have a coup, riots in the streets, etc in such a situation.
How clueless!
Nowhere in my message did I say that the US is the only country where that doesn't happen. How clueless of you to assume that I meant something I didn't even say.
And as for Americans in general, it seems to be in fashion to bash us all for something only a vocal few are guilty of. The rest of you are no saints, either, I'm betting, so you can all get off your high horses, too.
safety Sorry No. Go down and have a look at the 'murder' columns, shows a value of deaths per 100k. US ends up w/ double digits with countries like the USSR, Latvia & Brazil - Drastically higher than sub 2 values of star performers like Canada, Belgium, Greece and Japan..
p lanet scenario that is our current future).
freedom Sorry No. Have a look at the Corruption Index (Scroll to Table 1), American Imperialism (and here), McArthyism.. I wont bother with the links: DMCA, Marijuana Prohibition, Prostitution, Collusive Monopolies (RIAA/MPAA), The Cuban Embargo, Kent State Massacre, Vietnam, Cambodia, Bay of Pigs, Iran-Contra Affair, Watergate, Assassinations of John/Bobby Kennedy & MLK, Invasion of Granada, The War on Drugs, Internet Censorship in Schools/Libraries, Consumerism, Work holism, Invasion of Dominican Republic, Gulf War, Systemic Racism (weak gay rights)... etc etc
quality of life Sorry No. Canada has the highest Standard of Living on the planet - 7 years running...
I went to Chicago for NewYears eve to visit some friends. On the way home we heard a news reporter 'lead out of a story' by saying "...and after all; we are the richest and most powerful people in the world." What I began to think is that Americans have begun to treat their 'democracy' (*ahem*) like a Religion. There is no debate. They have enjoyed a very good 150 years - and like all successful civilizations; it will eventually end. If America didnt have such a large piece of 'virgin' North America to exploit for natural resources, and did host a World War (or two) Im betting the world would be a very different place. The 'success' of America dosnt prove the 'rightness' of Capitalism - so get that out of your head. America's 'success' is not success at all! (See adbusters.org about consumerism and mindlessness). America would do itself a favour and learn a little collective humility. Surely the last election has taught you something...
The system has been horribly corrupt by politicians and business people 'on the take'. Their is no longer anyone in Washington who intends to lead Americans. To help America lead and become better global citizens - and try their best to help set a good example - and take examples from those who are already doing good. No person on this planet should be without the rights described in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the US Constitution (or similar documents written or yet-to-be written). Like it or not this is a Global Village and we should be working together for the good of us all.
I refuse to become cynical and jadded. People will respond that this is 'The Real World' - to that I suggest people decide what we are choosing to make this 'Real World' become? Like it or not our collective action/inaction everyday sets the course for the future. We need to stop the 'present' America from setting the course that it is now (and using arms/propaganda to force others into capitulating). (I wont bother with the globalization/imperialist/enslavement/end-of-the-
Please American PEOPLE do something about your government.
I've struggled with dystopia (the core belief that things will get worse rather than better) and it is quite painful.
the recent laws protecting monopolies, IP, and copyrights have basically stripped us of the hard fought "fair use" clauses we had -- not good.
now add corporate welfare (american corporations are VERY well taken care of by law), a country that worships greed, power money and sex...
well, it's ugly. my personal belief is that things should get better for all people over time. But the current crop of laws, and the large corporations who serve greed and shareholder over customer...its just a bummer.
10-15 years ago I was positive cancer would be gone by 2000, that fusion energy would be up and running, homelessness and the stigmata of mental illness would be largely gone...but two aquantainces killed themselves before xmas...such a waste.
but what do we have? a fairly strong economy, yet an incoming president with little care for humanitarian, ethical or social concerns, a supreme court hanging on the edge of radical conservatism, a nation nearly evenly divided between liberal and conservatism.
I still hope for the emergence of a humanitarian/social ethos somewhere on the planet, at some point in my lifetime (which will work its way to world utopia) but the last two years, as well as the election, have dampened my hopes.
The greed, anger, ignorance, hate and indifference of the average american (particularly males) continues to horrify me. sigh.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
On the evidence here I think it will take you a very long time - nearly as long as it's taken the English, in fact.
Seriously, if you want quality of life, freedom, and safety, try Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark or Switzerland. Iceland is also great but it's a little too cold. Any of them easily beat the US on all the measures you've given.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
This is a bit of a misrepresentation. Take a look at a comparison of gun crime in our two countries. Yes, we do have problems with guns in the UK, in common with virtually every country in the world, but it is on a scale that is incomparably small next to US figures. This would seem to be largely due to cultural differences. A US citizen is likely to be a supporter of the second amendment, a believer in the use of guns to protect the person, and in hunting for sport. Contrary to some stereotypes, hunting is very much a minority persuit in the UK, as is target shooting, and under British law, there is NO OTHER legitimate reason to own a gun. Hence: no reason for handguns, which are only designed for killing people. Self-defense is no defense when it comes to guns. Defend yourself with a gun, and even if you dont fire it you will be in prison for a long time. Fire it, and you will probably be dead. Where firearms are suspected, British police will call the local Armed Response Vehicle. These are units with highly trained police officers that patrol nationwide, armed mainly with semi-automatic weapons. You might have seen them partolling UK airports. They always shoot to kill, aiming for the torso. It doesn't happen often, as gun crime is relatively low, but occasionally people are shot by them.
It seems like corporations have no desire other than to strip us of what few remaining freedoms we have, and the government is doing nothing to check their power scramble
Actually, corporations are unable to strip anyone of freedoms. It's those in favor of big government who wish to strip you of your freedoms (and who have the power to do so), and it's the American people who are doing nothing to check the power scramble. Not all citizens, of course, but a good number of them.
<PLUG TYPE="SHAMELESS">
The Libertarian Party has more information about protecting your liberty.
</PLUG>
I know this is probably troll bait, but the US was never really the best place to go if you wanted to be free. We pay a lot of lip service to personal freedoms, but have never really practiced what we preach. We held on to slavery long after most countries had abolished it. We had Jim Crow (and still do, in practice) until the 1960s. We still have a small propertied class that controls more than 90% of the wealth in the country. Yet Americans refuse to think in terms of class distinctions. We've been fed that bulls&*t line about America being a classless society for so long that we believe it.
Maybe I'm just bitter, but when the Supreme Court gets to select a president, it does a lot to disenchant you. Hell, if we really believed in freedom and democracy, we would have direct election of our presidents, and probably wouldn't have a drug war...
"You done taken a wrong turn."
-Bill McKinney, in Deliverance
The second part of your sentance contradicts the first. Either there are police with guns, or there aren't. "
Don't split hairs. Please let me clarify: the normal police don't carry guns. You won't see armed police on the streets. The only police I've seen with guns are on the television (patrolling Heathrow airport during a time of high national alert), or one occasion when the local bobby decided he couldn't handle some of my drunken friends (the nearest support came from the Prime Minister's residence and they were armed with sub-machineguns - they stood there and didn't get involved whilst another friend of mine pretended to be a commando pretending to shoot them). That's my experience of police with guns over my whole lifetime within the country.
So in general, the police don't carry guns.
"Remember than the same could have been said of pre-Nazi Germany, before Hitler came to power (though purely democratic means). What guarantee do you have that the army's going to stay overseas, that in fifty years your government won't have them roaming the streets rounding up "undesirables"? "
I have no fear that the army will ever be used against the people. If perhaps the people armed themselves and tried to rise up it might happen - but then those people would be trying to bypass normal democratic processes. In general, the government doesn't stay in power when the people don't like them. It's called democracy.
"I suppose I could be brought up as an accessory to manslaughter if a student of mine killed an attacker intent on killing him or her? "
If the legal system were screwed up. That's the sort of thing we expect to hear from the American courts though (we often do).
"Restricting guns to government employees creates an unstable situation; only when firearms are available to all can a peaceful society be maintained over the long term. If are feeling superior because your nation "gets by" without private ownership of firearms, you might consider the age of democracy in your nation compared to in the USA. (Where it is, to be sure, now endangered, but it's not quite dead yet.)"
Please... Britain was a democracy before the US. The evolution over hundreds of years from feudal through monarchy to a modern parliamentary democracy has lead to stability without the need for weapons. Don't forget, the basis of much of the American constitution is based on the ideals started at the time of King John (IIRC) and the Magna Carta.
Do you realise how antipodean your statement sounds: you only maintain a peaceful society with firearms?! That doesn't sound peaceful, that sounds repressive. Intimidation is no grounds for for peace.