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Hitachi Digital Camcorder Records To 8cm DVD-RAM
theluckman writes: "Hitachi is scheduled to release this digital camcorder in "early 2001". It can record 60 minutes of high quality (6M bps) digital video or 120 minutes of standard quality (3M bps) digital video. Also can store up to 2000 jpg's at 1280x960. All stored on an 8cm DVD-Ram disc (2.8 GB capacity). Add tons of specs and USB support and it seems like what the digital video world has been waiting for." It's sure intriguing, but raises the same pitfalls as Sony's CD-R camera discussed a few months back -- building a camera around a delicate mechanism is a difficult task. I'd be nervous about entrusting important moments to this.
In related news today, an unwary /. user posted an erroneous mathematical challenge and was swiftly inundated with replies all hoping to correct his ignorence.
/. users, labeling them as redundent, even though, due to the nature of /. they all most likely posted simulatneously.
Shortly after this event, an equal number of moderators stole karma from n-1 of the aforementioned
-={(Astynax)}=-
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"
Although it is not difficult to see someone making it, just because they might make a few bucks off it.
[shrug]
This may be another case of media wars, and the maxim of not buying version 1.0 of something has got to apply somehow as well.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Almost all mechanical devices can fail. Is that a reason not to use them? If the moments are important, use two or more methods to record them.
When my sister was married the photographer had a beautiful Hassleblad large format camera, among the best at the time. The shutter failed though, and all the pictures he took were garbage.
Fortunately he also had an assistant that took basically the same shots with another camera.
Remember, if it's important always have a backup, no matter how reliable the medium or device if the recording is important!
The whole setup weighed a good 20 pounds and was a bitch to lug around anwhere, but then you didn't get more than 30 minutes of battery life anyway. Going to be standing a while, recording something? Enjoy the back/neck pain for the next week. Putting it on a tripod? The cord was just long enough to be able to put the deck on the floor close by. Couldn't put it on a table, because someone would walk by and catch the cable.
camera -> fire-wire out -> Apple G4 with DVD burner -> DVD player
QED
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
But who knows when it will actually be available?
:-(.
I remember waiting ages for G4/500 systems to appear in the store, and judging by the rumours floating around, availability for this could be even worse, especially with all the rich geeks around who really, really need recordable DVD drives
Not that I wouldn't like one, of course; it would be really handy to be able to make DVDs instead of being stuck in the stone age with VHS.
D
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If you're willing to spend about $2,300 on a camcorder, you can get a three-chip MiniDV camcorder, which is significantly higher quality than Digital8. This isn't because of the format, but due to the three-chip CCD recording system - significantly superior to the single chip used by all Digital8 cameras. Recommended models are the Canon GL1 and Sony TRV900. These models will get you image quality which is very close to true professional formats like Digital BetaCam or BetaCam.
For about $3,000-4,500 you can get a high-end three chip camcorder like the Canon XL1 or Sony VX-2000 - those are semi-professional grade tools that will give you additional flexibility in operation. (The XL1, which I own, has interchangeable lenses and all sorts of cool features).
On the low-end, I think the big issue is small and light. The closest equivalent MiniDV camcorders to the Digital8 units are something like half or less the size and weight. For vacation photography and capturing images in difficult situations, this matters enormously - I've even been tempted to get my beautiful but large and heavy Canon XL1 a less pricey friend for exactly this reason.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are durability issues with the 8mm tapes. They are run at double their normal speed in a Digital8 camera. The older Hi8 format had dropout problems which were well known; tapes would survive unscathed for only a few plays. I don't know if Digital8 development has fixed this or not.
The biggest advantage of Digital8 is tape availability and price. You can buy tape usable in a Digital8 camera in a typical grocery or drug store. In my experience, MiniDV tapes are almost impossible to find outside of major urban centres. Even in the big city, you could have problems; in my trip to South Florida last year, I had to go to three different Circuit Cities to find even a single tape - and that was all they had available. So if you buy a MiniDV camcorder, you should stock up on tapes before travel.
I have a FAQ I wrote on Digital Video - it's a bit dated but there's still lots of good information. Visit http://www.amazing.com/dv/dv-faq.html .
Let me know if you have other questions.
D
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If you'd read even the first paragraph of the linked article, you'd know that it is in fact cartridge-based, but you can remove the disc from the cartridge and put it in a DVD player. Unfortunately, not all DVD players support DVD-RAM, but the article says most do.
"Hitachi preps first DVD-RAM camcorder" on ZDNet
"Hitachi to hit market with first DVD-RAM camcorder" on ZDNet
"Hitachi shows DVD-RAM camcorder" on IDG
The Google search I used to find all this stuff
I can't find a hitachi mirror on their global or japanese sites.
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Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
This sounds kind of cool but not like something I would save some money for. What I want is more quality and while this might increment it, it doesn't really take the problem head on just by using DVD RAM. I think that high definition digital video camera's are where its at.
Expensive? definitly, and not going to be in the consumer range anytime soon for sure, but combine the incredibly sharp picture of HDTV with being able to see your moments in that sharp picture would be worth alot. Instead of just seeing some fuzzy crappy picture of your wedding you could finally see a widescreen colorful picture of everyone there. Its along way off for sure, and JVC isn't helping anything but I think it would be where video cameras stop looking like crap and take a turn into true photography. I think that the best way to accomplish this would be to just use a hard drive in the camera. Then there isn't an issues with capturing video to computers because they could be put into files. People would certainly have to burn DVD's with only an hour or less video on them, but who wants to really save all of the video they take? If some of it could be easily discarded I think people would learn to throw away all the useless crap pretty quick. No one wants the half an hour trying to convince their kid to jump off the high dive, they just want the few minutes leading up to it and the few minutes after.
Some kind of heavy compression would have to be used, MPEG 2 is already somewhat out of date, and MPEG 4 only goes up to DVD resolution so neighther would really do the trick. Also the compression would take quite a bit of power so that is another obstacle I guess. Luckily MPEG 2 acceleration already works with MPEG 4 video (at least for me) so that's one problem solved already. It will happen, it will just take time.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
Can anyone tell me if there any digital cam corders that record to IDE harddrives? Like say, you can plug any old IDE harddrive into it and increase your storage capacity any time you want by buying a harddrive? Perhaps the cam corder could even run linux? When you consider that 40 gig harddrives are pretty cheap these days, it seems like a pretty worth while product.
How we know is more important than what we know.
I know, that's why we were all slapping it around to see if it kept recording smoothly or if the laser "lost track". Believe me, this thing was pretty impressive. The only thing stopping me from dropping it on the floor was the fact that it was tethered to the table.
Well, that and the fact that I couldn't take my eyes off the blond model. Woohoo!
What's your damage, Heather?
I look at these posts, and see alot of oooing and ahhing over the _dvd_ part of this camera (and that is probably the only reason it was posted in the first place). As I see it, the only reason to have a RAM type media is if you are going to be doing random access, otherwise it just adds cost and durability issues.
Now, for still photos, DVD-RAM might be a good solution, but that is not what this camera is designed for (just a 1.1-million-pixel 1/4-inch CCD).
For video, Mini DV tape does the job just fine, and at very low cost, and high reliablity. If you want better quality create better CCD's, and if that causes a higher bit rate than DV can handle, create a new format. But I don't see a reason to move away from tape at the moment (other than to cash in on the ooo's and ahh's we have seen here today!)
echo $email | sed s/[A-Z]//g | rot13
The link is not broken or slashdotted, the server just won't serve up the page if the URL is typed in, for some reason. If you go to www.hitachi.com, and click on DVD Cam, it loads fine.
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
Right, in addition, all your old VHS tapes should be able to be input into the video in, and transfered on the fly as an MPEG-2 stream over IEEE1394, that I think is a feature actually missing in more expensive DV cameras.
-Daniel
First, the MPAA will bring a lawsuit because the camera can record movies.
Then they will demand that there be a tax on the media because you might record a copyrighted movie on it.
Then they will insist that all of the cameras use Macrovision so that you cannot dub the movie to your VCR once you have recorded it.
In order to keep you from loaning a movie to someone else, the recordings will be encryped using your camera's unique key.
Sony and Philips will introduce a camera that does the same thing and uses identical looking, yet incompatible, media. It will be superior in some way that they cannot communicate in advertising to the general public.
JVC will introduce their own model of digital camcorder. It will require still different media, only record 20 minutes, and will have a goofy-looking adapter that will allow the movie to be played in DVD players. It will be called SuperDVD-C.
Congress will be asked to set a standard to eliminate consumer confusion and they will listen to 3 years of testimony before picking the most technically-inept and expensive design, which will be by a U.S. company. The Asian firms will beat the U.S. company to market anyway.
Consumers will, inexplicably, not embrace this new technology, baffling marketing analysts throughout the electronics industry.
If I were buying a camcorder. I think I'd pass this up rather quickly. For one the imager block will not produce high quality images. Second the data rate is really only good when you compare to LAN streaming video...6Mb/s is not impressive.
MiniDV and Digital8 Camera's record at 25Mbps or ~5MB/s. At that quality this camera can only hold about 9 minutes of DV25 video. Professional DV50 Cameras record at twice the bandwidth, which means that these disks can only store about 5 minutes.
In other words this stuff is useless, and you will very disappointed if you try to use this to archive your wedding or some other precious moment. You will likely end up with a VHS quality image and digital artifacts to boot.
Hmmm, just did the math, you could get 1 hour of DVD quality video from the format, but you will still be limited by the imager to less quality than you find on most VHS camcorders. Also, I question how well you can automatically encode MPEG-2 in real time.
There are other technologies that, when integrated into video systems, offer vastly greater promise.
Don't post innacurate information
If you do, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
the link to the cam is broken... after 4 posts...
/.ers are so patient...
I am hunting for a new link... Good thing us
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
/me waits until they include electronic skip protection =)
I am !amused.
I have a Sony MVC-CD1000 and have been using it for a few weeks now. As long as you don't drop or bang around the camera WHILE IT'S WRITING, everything is fine. I would think that this would be even less of an issue for DVD-RAM, as the DVD-RAM media is designed for random access writes unlike CD-R[W] media. If you've ever seen the back of a DVD-RAM disc you'd notice little block markers in a radial pattern on the disk. I wouldn't be too worried about the reliability of this camera. Besides, it's so expensive you wouldn't want to bang it aroung anyway... :)
I made this mistake a while ago; DVD-RAM is cartridge-based, a drive for your comupter costs about $350-500 and will NOT read DVDs or DVD ROMs (right?). Nor can DVD players and DVD-ROMs read DVD-RAM discs. I therefore see no point in this silly device.
As timothy stated, it seems rather risky to use this kind of technology; it is easily messed up and not even terribly compatible! I'd much rather see some kind of memory storage like MP3 players but larger; like 512 to a gig of storage. (who needs 2+GB anyway?)
btw, DVD-R is available for about $4k.
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Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
I know it breaks geek tradidition to say this (heresey! they cry) but: NEVER, EVER pick up first generation tech, even 1st gen deriv's. DVD-ROM AND Sony's got some kind of new high-def codec? That's money better spent on getting through college/morgage/kids. Let Gates and Torvalds break theirs first.
Geek Culture killed my dog/
and I don't think it's fair...
io hymen hymnaee io
io hymen hymnaee
I'm not saying dvd would be better, just not worse. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.
Bill - aka taniwha
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Bill - aka taniwha
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Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Some quick points:
It came out in Japan back in August.
It has a 1.1-million-pixel 1/4-inch CCD with an effective area of 720,000 pixels is used for video recording. In still mode, the effective area is one million pixels.
It's compatible with Windows 9x and Windows 2000/NT. No plans for Linux as yet.
The DVD-RAM used complies with CPRM standards, meaning your own pictures/video is subject to the same copyprotection nonsense we've been bitching about on slashdot for the past couple months. This is insipid, since by definition, you own the copyright on the video you yourself are taking. When will these companies learn?
Read the rest of this comment...
Why not separate the storage from the camera? Have the camera store SOME amount in a couple-meg buffer (FlashCard? RAM?), and transmit the rest to a base containing the storage device. The base can be either wearable (say in backpack) and thus possible to connect via a wire or some short-distance network (Does Bluetooth have enough bandwidth?); or stationary, may be in a car, using other wireless network that is more long-distance.
Just my .02
-DVK
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
I have the Sony camera of which you speak. Quality is just fine for home video. In addition to composite video, they also have Firewire (bidirectional) so it means I never have to use a VHS tape again. I can just make MPEG-2 versions of my video through the Firewire card.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
AFAIK, DVD-RAM isn't compatible with DVD players, meaning that you can't pop those disks into a DVD player and share your moments. This seems like this missing link here -- a camera that could directly make DVD-compatible videos without having to mess around remastering them to DVD format.
Or does Hitachi also sell a DVD player that can read and display this format as well as DVD format discs?
This thing was at Comdex, and it wasn't anywhere near as motion-sensitive as you guys are playing it out to be.
Hitachi had three gorgeous models on stage, and there were four of these videocameras hooked up to TV's. The public could walk up, play with the videocameras, and film the models as they walked around. It was hilarious. I've never felt so guilty for taking part in a product demonstration.
I jostled it, moved it up and down, slapped it sideways, and when I played back the recording, it was great. (Well, granted, it looked like it'd been filmed by a drunken monkey, but the reproduction was perfect.)
There were literally dozens of us standing around the display at all times, scoping out the hardware (ahem). I can't believe I'm the first poster to remember it.
What's your damage, Heather?
I would use a parachute...
6Mb = 750KB
750KB/sec x 60 sec = 45MB/min
45MB/min x 60 min = 2.7GB
Math looks ok to me...
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
You'd rather entrust them to ever-reliable tape? You've never had a VCR eat an important tape, have you?
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
... one of the biggest players in the server world. Should "/." be made one of standart test for servers reliability/response time ? Just imagine "Latest configuration of server ABC-2001 from XYZ recevied 3245 Slashdotmarks ! "
tandr
- What happens if the monkey reaches up and hits the camera? Dirty camera. Probably the same thing that would happen to the DVD camera, assuming adequate shock protection.
- What happens if an elephant sprays the camera? Ruined camera.
- What happens if your son is using it to record the bears in the pit and then drops it into the pit? Ruined tape, AND ruined camera. THEN son thrown into pit to retrieve remnants.
- A.P.--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
The Math is fine:
60 minutes=3600 seconds
6 megabits/sec=6 megabytes/8 sec
3600/8 = 450 6 megabyte units
450 * 6 = 2700 megabytes
give or take several dozen megs, the math is fine.
-={(Astynax)}=-
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"
Is there any real drawback to the Digital 8 cameras out there?
I mean I've looked at them, like the sony TRV-120, they seem reletivly inexpensive, they can record to 8mm tape that's cheeper and more available (possibly even more durable). They can play hi8 and such. They have composite video in and out such that they can digitize a signal for you, and they're still pretty small.
So is the draw back manufactured, i.e. the CCDs arn't as good as the DV cams? or is it part of wieght/energy usage, or is it that 8mm is just a bad format for high bandwidth stuff.... I'm not following why people arn't all over these cameras as opposed to the more expensive ones.
-Daniel