Slashdot Mirror
The Pillsbury Doughboy vs. Engineers
Anonymous Coward writes: "Just when you thought things could not get more stpid. Salon is reporting in this story that Pillsbury is sending cease-and-desist letters this week to universities and Sun Microsystems among others ordering engineers to stop holding what the doughboy company considers illegal "bake-offs." A bake-off is slang for testing software against protocols. This article tells the story.
Xray crystallographers who use the "shake and bake" software better watch out. They're probably next."
The point is, however, when you invite lawyers into a situation like this, a lawsuit could easily follow.
If I take my car to a mechanic, the mechanic's likely to add on additional work for himself. A lawyer's involvement is unlikely to stop at a simple letter, because he or she operates under the same principle the mechanic would use.
You might say that the company can control it's lawyers, stopping at the letter. But, in this day and age, how much of a company's behavior is actually controlled by the lawyers?
Goat sex free since 2001
can a company be so mindbogglingly stupid? I cannot conceive of a non-comedic board meeting with the legal team to decide to pursue 'bake-off' as a trademark under infringement. Expecially right now. I would've expected it in mid-99 when they could've used their legal team to sap some dollars out of the tech boom [1], but trying it now is squeezing water from a stone.
Of course, this is from a company that asks you to sign up for their spam with a damn popup on their front page, so. Surf their brands to see what you should boycott. Lay off the haagen-dazs, green giant, old el paso, and of course, pilsbury.
[1] Of course, it would've been stupid then for the same reasons it is now, but I could at least see a good corp-think argument for it.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
excerpt from www.pillsbury.com, link to site is here
[begin contact info]
Contact Us
Before you contact us, we'd like you to review our policies on privacy and suggestion and idea submissions.
Phone
1(800)767-4466
8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Central Time
Monday through Friday
Email
Click here to contact Pillsbury about product and technical questions. Kids, get your parent's permission first!
Write
The Pillsbury Company
2866 Pillsbury Center
Minneapolis, MN 55402 USA
[end contact info]
if they have a problem with that.... good =)
Someone at Pillsbury was probably shocked and dismayed when doing a search on "bake-off" and getting all these hits that have nothing to do with proper use of the Pillsbury trademark.
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. *shakes head in dismay*
Also, there is this intersting IETF mail archive entry about this very issue from last November. It quotes text from RFC1025(Sept 1987) --
There were a few times when this testing was focused, bringing together all known implementations and running through a set of tests in hopes of demonstrating the N squared connectivity and correct implementation of the various tricky cases. These events were called "Bake Offs".
So the term has obviously been in use for quite a long time. I'll bet what is driving this now is all these TCP testing-related websites getting higher page ranks than Pillsbury's official bake-off contest stite. It is causing consumer confusion! Too fscking bad!
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
go get some therapy...after they run about 50 grams of that stuff through your veins over a two year period or so...ahhhhh. things will be much mo betta.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I asked, does Pillsbury enter your mind at all when you hear bake off? They all answered no.
Indeed, I asked my wife. She thought for a moment and answered "Betty Crocker" and was quite sure of it.
It is obvious that Pillsbury has not done enough already to keep their "trade mark" from disassociation and dilution, and they want to start now?
<cliche>
Too little too late.
Closing the barn door behind the horse.
</cliche>
Are a couple of things that come to mind.
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
Don't f*ck with Pillsbury. They're known for sending 150 ft. demonically possessed doughboys at anyone who opposes them.
Ho-hooo!
--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
am i in legal danger?
I like meat helmets.
Sun can call it the "pillsbury fuck off" instead.
I ask this because some upbraded my posting of Nintendo contact info in an earlier discussion this past week. Some did not like the idea of an executive get slash-dotted by all the people writing and sending email.
One comment made to me was:
And My response was: There was this reply: My position is stated clearly above. Although I could be wrong, I do believe that we all have the right to contact people in corporations based on what we do know and what we do believe. We should not be intimidated by the PR spin of some. Our freedom is based in large part on the ability to freely communicate."It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
To test this, I propose the author attempt to bring to market a line of facial tissues called "Kleenex", and see exactly how long it takes for him to hear from the Kimberly-Clark corporation. Indeed, even if he were marketing Kleenex-brand Bowling Balls, I suspect he'd hear from K-C. This is such a stupid myth that would never be propagated but for poor fact-checking.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
If Pillsbury does not protect "bake-off" from entering into general English usage like "xerox", "escalator", "popscicle", and "kleenex", then Pillsbury loses some ability to enforce their trademark against a direct competitor. I'm mostly on Pillsbury's side on this one. I suppose if Pillsbury wanted to be really nice, they could license the term to one or two specific organizations for $1, but even that's risky for them, and they are probably not afraid of a boycott from Slashdot readers.
They actually send associates around when they're on travels to various restaurants and check the responses. Those who don't clarify are asked (politely, according to my brother) to correctly phrase the question, and the store goes in the big bad offenders database.
It's their way of preserving the fact that a Coke is their particular beverage. They (the brand owners) really DO take this stuff seriously.
I just sent the following to the pillsbury comment site and the mealtimeideas site:
Begin submission ---
Ok guys, this has gone far enough. I fully understand your legal right and responsibility to protect your trademark on "Bake-off", but this has to stop. I am a network administrator for a state agency and have been involved in the computer industry for almost 10 years. Until reading the article posted on slashdot.org today, I had never heard of the term Bake-off used for engineering testing and competition. This just does not have the same impact as the 'Kleenex' and 'Aspirin' issues.
Had I not seen the article, I would have gone blithely along completely unaware that Bake-off (not a word I use in daily conversation) was anything other than a contest by the Pillsbury folk. I sincerely doubt there could be any consumer confusion about the difference between a Pillsbury baking contest and an informal event to test computer hardware and/or software.
I have become more and more concerned in recent times about the problem of creeping corparatism and patent and intellectual property issues. There is a big difference between someone attempting to market a product by co-opting the Bake-off trademark and some engineers getting together to test equipment. Since I heard about the patent of an obvious computer process in the Amazon 'one-click' patent issue, I elected to stop patronizing Amazon.com and let anyone I come in contact with know the reason I had done so. I don't know if I have had any impact on their business, but it really doesn't matter to me, it's an integrity issue.
If I don't hear in the near future that Pillsbury has retracted it's objection to what some small group of engineers have chosen to call their informal testing process, I will have to stop purchasing Pillsbury and related products and let anyone I come in contact with know the reason why. Again, I don't know if it will impact the Pillsbury bottom line, and I don't really care, it's all about integrity.
I'm sure you know that the best advertising is word-of-mouth. But it can also be the worst form of advertising. I make very informed and objective purchasing decisions. Often guided by what others have told me about their experiences and what they have heard about a vendor, company, etc. (after verifying what might be hearsay.) I hope others make these types of decisions as well.
This is only intended to be a statement of my displeasure at what I see as a wholly unreasonable use of corporate power. Please reconsider you actions and leave these poor engineers alone.
Thank you for your time. I'll be keeping my eye on the media to see if should continue to patronize the Pillsbury corporation.
End Submission ---
I will watch to see if they continue this ridiculous course of action. If so, I will follow through. I don't know if my individual decsion will make any difference to them, but a lot of individuals before a significant force with significant impact.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
I was unable to see the picture, but fromthe description this should be it. Mirror early, mirror often.
I didn't know that the term 'bake-off' was owned by Pilsbury. Anyway... it all reminds me of a guy who I talked to a while ago who owned zennet, who would create net pages solely for the purpose of making the blood-thirsty lawyer-monkies chase after him with tons of cease and desist letters, whereafter he would delete the page after responding to them three or four times. He would get some great letterheads and stationary and the like, and had a pretty good collection going, but then, out of no where, in the middle of a legal correspondence with Manny, Mike, and Lo (aka, the Pep Boys) he just vanished off the face of the planet. Server and all. Hmm.
This has been posted to the Pilsbury http://www.mealtimeideas.com/bulletinboard/
y /index.html
p g
For those of you who don't know, Pilsbury is sending cease and desist orders to a variety of organizations who use the term "bake-off."
The most recent round of such letters went to computer companies who use the term for a state of software testing. Salon has an article about it online. http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/01/19/pillsbur
Your local school could be next!
Anyway, my computer geek background and my considerable cooking skills inspired me to come up with the following recipe for Dough-Boy cakes.
First, you start with a basic pound cake or Mazitpan recipe. If using a pound cake recipe, you need to add flour to create a very dense dough.
Roll the dough into circles for the head, an oval for the chest and smaller ovals for the legs and arms. If you're feeling creative you can even make the hat and add some food coloring.
The more sadistic among us can shape the head with skeleton features to indicate a cooked Dough-Boy who met a gruesome end, as in the picture here: http://members.tripod.com/laffs/images/Doughboy.j
Serve and enjoy.
http://www.matthewmiller.net
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
.."Jack Offs" instead
[/me ducks]
A trademark only covers specific areas. You can have a trademark in one area, but not have it conflict with an identical trademark in another area.
Look at Apple Records and Apple Computers.
Fight Spammers!
They may as well patent the word "bake" while they're at it.
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
So Pillsbury needs to show that "bake-off" is in danger of becoming a generic term for "competition," and they have an interest in preventing that.
Let's be real here, ask 1 million non-geeks what they envision when they hear that Sun is holding a bake off, and most will probably picture some sort of employee morale event involving cakes and cookies. I seriously doubt that they will picture an event where clients and servers get mixed and matched to test interoperability.
Also, do a Google search on bake off. I found that use of the term seems divided about 70-30 in favor of the tech usage by MANY entities with no particularly outstanding entity. On the cooking side (30% roughly) about half referred to Pillbury, the other half to various other entities including McDonalds!
Coca-Cola is a good example of a famous mark. It is widely recognized by most of the world (often phonetically in non-english speaking countries).
Of course, it's possable to get nearly anything into court these days if you have a large legal staff that gets paid wheather they are busy or not. That is not a good thing. Perhaps we need a grand jury like process for civil court to decide if a suit has enough merit to be worth bothering the defendant with.
Cool! I'm already boycotting them and didn't even know it.
In all seriousness though, I would like to given them a chance to respond before a boycott. (As if little 'ole me boycotting them will make much difference to them)
I say if they don't apologize by Tuesday we start the political activism. I've had it with all these #)&$@ corporations deciding their bottom line is more important than right and wrong. I don't want to live under Corporate Feudalism anymore.
http://www.matthewmiller.net"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
They should have known better than to trademark such a word.
Though interestingly, Pillsbury claims that the first use of the trademarked "Bake-Off" term was Mar 31st, 1995. IANAL, but could one argue that the term was already a commonly used/well known phrase in the English language.
It's in my 1976 Webster's 3rd International Dictionary, which identifies it as a "service mark".
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Pillsbury's trademarks include The Doughboy® and likeness, Häagen-Dazs®, Old El Paso®, Green Giant®, Sprout®, and Bake-Off®. Now you know what brands to avoid.
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Heck, Sun can call me in as a witness. I can probably still come up with my non-winning cake recipe...
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
Actually, they don't. Check this, from nolo.com:
In addition, under federal and state laws known as "anti-dilution statutes," a trademark owner may go to court to prevent its mark from being used by someone else if the mark is famous and the later use would dilute the mark's strength -- that is, weaken its reputation for quality (called tarnishment) or render it common through overuse in different contexts.
Anti-dilution statutes can apply even if there is no way customers would be likely to confuse the source of the goods or services designated by the later mark with the famous mark's owner. For instance, consumers would not think that Microsoft Bakery is associated with Microsoft, the software company, but Microsoft bakery could still be forced to choose another name under federal and state anti-dilution laws.
There is no good definition of what makes a mark famous. This means that to avoid dilution claims, it is necessary to stay away from all existing marks that have widespread and significant consumer recognition.
So Pillsbury needs to show that "bake-off" is in danger of becoming a generic term for "competition," and they have an interest in preventing that. All of which seems credible enough to get you into court.
[Can I have my karma now?]
Has there been a new law that has forced companies to more aggresively pursue copyrights and trademarks? Did all the lawyers make a resolution to cause more agony in the new year? Or is this just business as usual, and we're just noticing it more now?
I understand a bit about trademarks, that you have to get out a stick and enforce it every once in awhile or you lose it, but this seems a little ridiculous.
Or, perhaps, there is a new product in the works - maybe a Pokemon / Dough Boy crossover? Watch the show, buy the trading cards, eat the cereal, bake the character-shaped cookies?
If I'm absolutly correct about that last one, sorry Slashdot. You can remove this comment if the lawyers knock on your door
Seen on the inside of the packaging for cookie dough (in fine print):
"seineew era sreenigne nuS"
*or*
They should rename the "bake-offs" to BHDs (Butt-Head Doughboys).
SIP has very little to do, specifically, with wireless.
It has to do transmitting content (voice, mostly) over networks. Parts of the network may be wireless, but that's not the focus.
I do remember using a 3Com SIP phone, having to plug it in and let it grab an address before I could use it.
The only wireless part was the IR port for connecting to a Palm. You can dial out with it or register your identity with the phone so that calls to you would be routed to that phone.
It's pretty cool, actually.
For a Linux implementation, check out Dissipate for KDE.
[posted anonymously to preserve identity]
:) Another good person to try would be Raymond Viault, who is the vice chairman of the board of directors and is in charge of the General Mills/Pillsbury "transition team."
I worked as an Intern for General Mills this past summer in their IS department. Being an intern at a place gets you lots of interesting information. I knew General Mills would be buying Pillsbury two days in advance of the announcement this summer. I know other useful information, so if someone wants to email the General Mills' Sr. VP - Corp. Affairs, Sec., Gen. Counsel Siri Marshall to tell him that persuing the "bake-off" infringement is a bad idea, go ahead
All are encouraged to post something similar. We'll squash this before it ever gets to the court.
"Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
"Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
-The Professor, Futurama
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
When are these guys going to learn you can't copyright common terminology like this?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Pilsbury Legal Offices:
The head lawyer rises at the mahogany table and begins to speak. "Gentlemen, we have to crack down on the unwashed masses using our trademark terms. The NAZI 'final solution' practices taught us that we need to start small. If we jump straight to suing the schools who dilute our trademarks, we'll have a public outcry, but if they're the last stage of the plan, no one will whimper because they'll know it's just part of the program. The question is, where do we begin?"
One of the drones raises his hand, "Sir, I think we need a group that the masses already fear. People who are ridiculed and downtrodden, yet not the focal point of sympathy. We need to start with a group who is the focal point of many people's frustration, rage and fear, people who are misunderstood and picked on by the popular people who everyone looks up to."
The head lawyer frowns at the drone, "And where are we going to find a group of people who use our trade marks, are not very popular and are either hated , feared or detested by the masses?"
The drone smiles. "Computer geeks use the term 'bake-off' for software testing."
The head lawyer's eyes light up. "Drone 2974, you're a genius! Start the cease and desist letters immediately!"
</humor>
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Another trademark was stripped from Bayer in that treaty - Heroin.
See about.com's aspirin page.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
It would be really nice if someone who got one of these threatening letters could post it. Certainly there is nothing in the Salon article to suggest that the Pillsbury complaint has a shred of merit, or that the case isn't being brought years too late. But without a copy of the actual claims, it's always a little dangerous to speculate; reporters sometimes miss something.
That said, I am having a lot of trouble even imagining what a meritorious claim for Pillsbury would look like on these facts.
Public relations fiasco, anyone?
I have a blog.
The fabulous Baker Boys?
Sherlock Holmes (who lived at Baker Street)?
Jerry Rafferty (who played "Baker Street")?
Kevin Bake-on?
Who knows? Lawyers know no bounds...
I don't think the phrase "b4k3-0ffz" is copyrighted yet.
In related news, Bill Gates of microsoft announced he would be filling suit against the Pilsbury Dough-boy for wrongfully using the word "dough", which bill claims is the sole owner of.
Also in related News, Creative Labs had announced the sending out of Cease and Decists to Orchestra's around the world as a method to have said orchestra's stop blasting sound.
------------------------------------
"Let's have a f*** off instead!"
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Whats next in line? Them fining school "bake-offs" and such?
mmmm...
>So why aren't they suing comedy festivals?
Maybe they are? BTW: is sending a threating C&D letter the same a 'suing'?
>After all, that's the first url found by google.
Hmm... have to try others now and see if it is the same...
yahoo, altavista, excite and lycos all show pilsbury 1st
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
From the list linked to in the parent:
"Monopoly" for a real estate-trading board game
I think I'd still check with a lawyer before I release my own "Monopoly" game no matter what this list says.
There are other's on the list that I cannot believe were ever trademarked (e.g. Honey Baked Ham)
--
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
You know, it's really tough sometimes to figure out who to cheer for (yes, that's a parody, but with not a little basis in reality).
On a more serious note, isn't the phrase "bake-off" sufficiently descriptive that it may contradict guidelines on what is and isn't trademarkable? As the OSI found with their failed attempt to secure the "Open Source" trademark?
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Some time ago, this text circulated arount the net. It was funny then - how times change...
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
After all, they invented web cookies.
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
If the legal dept. in your company is forced to create imaginary threats in order to justify it's existance and expense, then you have larger internal problems to worry about than somebody using your "name".
Yes, one day I may actually learn to spell...
They better get in touch with these folks, too.
Dear God in Heaven, PLEASE let this be a joke. This is a hoax, right? Pillsbury isn't REALLY this stupid and asinine, is it? Their lawyeres aren't really this insane are they????????
I'll just have to boycott them. Whose with me?
Come on, you know being boycotted by a group that probably makes up 40% of their business would hurt the suckers, and it's not like boycotting the MPAA because there are a LOT of alternatives to Pillsbury products!
Let's go to the bulletin board on their web site and post what we think of them, shall we??
http://www.matthewmiller.net
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
These bakeoffs are heald to test compatability between products that use the Session Initiation Protocol, which is going to be used to route calls and media for the next generation of wireless devices (PDA's, Cell phones, etc). 3G wireless promises 2Mbps transfer rates with roll outs starting as early as this summer (for the Isle of Man atleast). Rock on.
They are just doing to get World-Wide publicity for free, and all you dotty slashers have fallen for it, hook line and sinker.
This slang term does not affect the strength of our trademark SPAM. In a Federal District Court case involving the famous trademark STAR WARS owned by LucasFilms,[sic] the Court ruled that the slang term used to refer to the Strategic Defense Initiative did not weaken the trademark and the Court refused to stop its use as a slang term. Other examples of famous trademarks having a different slang meaning include MICKEY MOUSE, to describe something as unsophisticated; TEFLON, used to describe President Reagan; and CADILLAC, used to denote something as being high quality.
So you can spam all your friends saying that the Teflon President's Mickey Mouse "Star Wars" program wasn't exactly the Cadillac of defense initiatives, and that's okay as long as you don't SPAM your friends with this info.
sulli
RTFJ.
Any LAWYERS in the house?
If so what on earth are you doing about this?
Lawyers follow money, it's true. But lawsuits like these are so widely percieved as absurd that I don't see how so many lawyers are taking the risk of bringing up these cases.
Please inform me! Is this similar to what can often happen in technical fields, when some buzzword or management strategy breezes through the magazine circut like a typhus epidemic, causing thousands of lawyers to chase trademark, copyright and patent cases all at once?
Or is there some movement in lawyers' organizations to protect people's rights, something like a jurisprudential EFF?
Goat sex free since 2001
Finally, a use for anonymous cowards.
All you ACs out there, go down to the public or school library and sneak your way onto a browser.
Wear a disguise, since they all have time lapse video now. Shave your legs so they are smooth and sexy, and wear a cheerleader outfit or something. Practice singing "We got spirit, yes we do, we got spirit, how about you".
Email an anonymous tip to the FBI, Microsoft and the SPI (or whatever that place is) stating that you are a sysadmin for Pillsbury, and your boss made you do 250 illegal installs of Office and NT last Wednesday in the Legal Dept. of the Pillsbury Corporate Offices.
Hee, Hee, Hee.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Pillsbury could have done something nice instead aim to be Slashdotted for stupidity. It would have been cheaper to create something useful than it was to waste legal billing. If they wanted to be slashdotted, they might have made a GPL cookbook, calorie counter, anything. If they wanted to make news in a self interested way, they could have decreed they want to use some kind of Free software in their daily operations.
Pillsbury is much more than dough. They own the jolly green giant, ice cream, fast food, and all sorts of things that have nothing to do with baking. Thinking morons are in charge of such massive capital and wealth is not comforting, but it's not new to me either.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.