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Stimulating Bone Growth In Astronauts
Anonymous Coward writes: "This story will be very interesting for women and space geeks. A State University of New York at Stonybrook researcher has invented a machine that stimulates bone growth in subjects by just having them stand on a vibrating platform. A sheep using the gizmo 20 minutes a day had 20% denser bones after only a year. The idea was to help post-menopausal women, but now it might be used to strengthen astronauts' bones before and during flights. As you know, bones in zero gravity tend to get weaker and more brittle. The weird part is how the device works. Muscle builds by responding to damage, but that's apparently not how bone gets stimulated into growing. It seems that muscle contractions occur within frequencies of 20-50Hz and bones "hear" that oscillation as a message to build up. According to the article, the platform mimics that signal by vibrating undetectably within those frequencies. Cool, huh? Here's the story."
You'd swear those seats were designed to hold munchkins. Or those impossibly thin flight attendants. They look like they could use some bone strengthening to keep them from snapping in two from a strong breeze.
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
First of all, this could be a huge benefit to space explaoration as bone loss has always been a major hazard. I think the best time to do this might be during sleep. You could outfit each sleeping unit with a little platform under the feet that would be pulled snug against them with a spring or elastic. This might also reduce the amount of time astronauts have to spend exercising in space, freeing them up to accomplish more things on a mission.
Not to mention all the benefits that might result for those here on earth as well. I believe there are several diseases that result in loss of bone mass, in addition to the effects of aging and menopause.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Since the whole idea of sending humans into space is to send humans into space, what would be the point of sending not-quite humans into space?
Ok, I'll ask the obvious. Why would you run for years in boots? Drill sargent? Or just unaware that better footware exists?
-josh
How in the world could a device that relies on GRAVITY be used during flight? Seems like that would be more of a feat then the device itself.
WTF? Does this mean my pounding 1200 watt car stereo system actually has practicle use? So by listening to music with lots of low frequency harmonics at low volumes I'm making my bones stronger?
RIGHT ON!!! I can't wait to use that one next time I'm pulled over for a noise ordinance violation by the cops!
"But officer, my doctor said I've got brittle bones!"
20-50 Hz, eh? So all those kids cruising in boomers must have really strong bones...
sorry, 2 different processes there.
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mass and inertia still apply. strap the person to a vibrating heavy platform and they'll still bounce up and down - gravity or no gravity.
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Back to the topic, I think that genetically engineering a crew is a great idea, as far as the technical aspects go. In order to survive in space, you'd need some kind of hard skin, maybe an exoskeleton. You'd also need a good supply of oxygen, which you may be able to get from chlorophyll, as long as you's relatively close to the sun.
But what could you do about radiation? Are there any organisms that are really tough in that respect? (Insert joke about cockroaches surviving nuclear holocaust)
People's attitudes will have to change a lot before this happens because these new creatures will be intelligent and human-ish, but they won't really look like us. Nowadays people have problems when someone's skin is a different color. What's going to happen when they try to converse with a big green insect-like humanoid?
Does this mean I could grow horns on the top of my head?
Now vibrators have another use! ;)
"Vibrators in Space", film at 11.
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
I think the only way something like this could work would be if you could change people after they have already been born and already decided they want to become space travelers. Perhaps using genetic therapy or something like that. Otherwise you are just betting on the fact that the new human will be ok with the role you have chosen for it, which seems like a bad bet to me.
This discovery (and a device taking advantage of it) was reported in Science News at least 8 months ago.
Say no more, say no more, eh? 'know what I mean?
And poke her, with the soft cushions!!!
Hmm, 60 Hz is close enough, im gonna start electricuting myself daily as a substitute for exercise.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
And, it doesn't depend on gravity. The vibrations is what cause increased bone density (not growth).
OK genius, how do I feel the vibrations in zero G? I'll just drift away from the vibrating plate since the vibrations are the result of the plate exerting a force on me, directed away from the plate. With nothing to hold me back, I'll not feel the vibrations. That's why it depends on gravity. As other posters stated, rubber bands of some kind would solve this problem easily. An even easier solution would be to make a vibrating device that fits inside an astronaut's shoe. VibraSoles?
Black holes are where God divided by zero
Somewhere in here is the perfect /. troll... get to work you slackers!!!!1
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Could this be used to help cancer patients regrow bone marrow after a transplant?
Natl. Geographi already covered this a while back (1 or 2 issues back or so). The experiment was with turkeys, I believe.
And, it doesn't depend on gravity. The vibrations is what cause increased bone density (not growth).
It may also be a treatment against osteoporosis.
Electroshock "exercise" pads don't build any muscle.
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"Hey Bill, why the heck is your computer chair vibrating?"
"sSsHhUuTtt UuPpp MmmaAaNnnN, Iii'Mmm WwwWoorRkKiIInnNgGG OooUuuTtTt."
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Let me give you the lowdown
Bone density picks up a little....
everything else falls even faster.
Thanks, fellas.
Removing the balancing weights from your car tires and then drive 85 mph around Atlanta on I-285.
The vibrating platform is a cool idea, I must admit, but I think that bone growth is more attibuted to proteins that act as tensile meters. If there is a spot on the bone connected to a ligament that is stressed, the protein says, "build here."
Imagine what the vibrating platform can do for the spider goat!
A lot of the gymnasts are also on diets that do not allow them to gain as much weight. It has to do with them staying the right size so that the centre of balance is maintained.
Look up the statistics of eating disorders and halting of the menstrual cycle in female athletes, particulary in russia, and china. That, of course is not to say that other countries don't do it, it's just that they are the examples that come to mind.
Other problems that we will probably see down the road for geeks aren't just osteoporosis, but I would actually be very worried about the integrity of the IV discs, and the lack of decent activity to nourish the discs.
:) ).
I know myself when I code, that hours will pass with no problem, and I force myself to get and stretch to keep the discs happy. I do this because I know the consequences and have to sit through hours of lectures on the consequences. But what about your average programmer? Are they really aware of how more physical activity they should be getting( this is of course the web designers who are always off snowboarding
In fact geek related disorders could almost be a specialist category, just to correct them now so they aren't patients later.
Hmmm we'll see I guess.
Yes. That's what the world needs more vibrating turkeys and sheep. I can't wait to see the goat sex link count on this article...
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
I know, the obvious solution would be to code the ability to adapt to any changes in gravity, but the reality is that we'll probably have to make some sort of trade-off somewhere.
"The good thing about Alzheimer's is that you can hide your own Easter eggs."
"People should be allowed to keep midgets as pets."
- Gov. Jesse Ventura
Bonsai Kitten eaten by carnivore. How long until the webmasters update their site to take advantage of this wonderful new Kitticulture Technique?
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IANASRP- I am not a self-referential phrase
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IANASRP- I am not a self-referential phrase
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email: proprietary becomes free, org to com
there's no downside if you don't watch TV
It makes me wonder if this might cause an analogue of "vibration white finger" in some areas of the body. This is a disorder of the circulation, where vibration causes the blood vessels to narrow. It most commonly affects people who use vibrating hand tools for long periods.
What next - Astronaut White Toe Syndrome?
Bone deformation induces a pizeoelectric charge on bone (neg on the compressed side I think) and the micro electric environment induces the osteoblasts to lay down more tissue (bone, cart).
Current bone stimulators for people who have trouble healing fractures rely on this principle (pulsed electric fileds or ultrsonic noise).
The frequency selected by the vibrating platform guy was no accident - it's the same one that the pulsed electric field devices work best.
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Greenstick fractures only occur in kids who almost NEVER have a prob healing bone.
This device and other bone stimulators mostly work by increasing cancellous bone mass.
Structurally, bone has basically 2 components. It has a hard, dense outer shell (cortical) and a spongier inside stuffing (cancellous). The bone density devices mostly work on the inside stuffing part (cancellous bone) and not much on the outer shell (cortical)
Shin splints and stress fractures are a cortical problem (outer shell) and don't respond so well to these devices. Rest/activity modification is still the best way to heal these.
Sorry..
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Oh, you gravity parochial, you. If they can survive in low gravity conditions, why would they need to visit Earth? There's plenty of room and sunlight Out There. And gold, platinum, zinc...
It doesn't make your bones *bigger*, just increases their mass by making them *denser*. It doesn't make you taller.
I wasn't a drill sergeant but there was almost always one close at hand :) The lower limb injuries where I served were really bad during the late 80s. After a few official inquiries, we got better footwear but in some cases the damage had been done.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
The only reason you need to "stand" on it is so that it can effectively translate the vibrations into your bones (they could just as easily created a mat that you laid down on). They just need the pressure your weight asserts on the surface of the system. This can be done with big rubber bands (already used for exercise regimens to simulate gravity pulling on the muscles and bones) or just by strapping the system to your body while you're floating around doing other work. If it doesn't translate through the rest of the body that well in zero-g, just strap it to different areas at different times. This could be a great risk/cost reducing research project for long range missions like the space station and Mars/interplanetary missions.
IANAL, but I play one on
Just a thought.
- Jonathan
OK, now that we seem to have the bone atrophy thing licked, we have to work on the muscle and heart atrophy. Exercise and possibly those electroshock exercise pads they sell in the back of those magazines should help with the muscles, but afaik the deterioration of the heart is still a concern. The astro/cosmo/nauts work out 4 hours daily in space, and thier heart still weakens in long duration space flights
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Really, this is like observing and mimicking the communication in a distributed system (read: computer network). Only that biology uses (and a computer scientist would say: abuses) so many forms of communication that discoveries like this are still possible even today. It even has some kind of hacker spirit - why use a hormone to tell the bone to grow, when the vibration that's there anyway will do?
-chrisp
"If that makes any sense to you, you have a big problem."
As far as fracture management at university and reports go, bone actually grows according to gravity and muscle pull.
Bone(hydroxyapatite), when compressed, generates a charge. This charge in turn stimulates more bone to grow.
What happens in space is that there is not as much force and so the osteoclasts(or osteoblasts, i can't remember), resorb more bone than is grown.
This is why when a bone is broken it is better to use fracture bracing(orthotics, or casts), and keep the person using the bone, so that the bone is stimulated into healing.
An example of this is the strength difference between internal/external fixation and using fracture bracing.
A brief look at any medical journal, or more specifically, prosthetics/orthotics journals.
I dont know about all this. With vibrating panels and bones and space
It just seems a bit shaky to me!
Lord Arathres
stainless steel
This is a pretty interesting application of technology to solve one of the problems of long-term space travel, but the trouble is that if you're staying for long terms in orbit then there are a whole host of problems which need to be tackled in order to stay fit and able to function again when you come back down to Earth and its one gee of gravity.
The trouble with all of this kind of thing is that whilst it may work it's expensive, time-consuming and often just not effective. If we're going to look towards the future of the race out in the stars, we need to take a more fundamental look at the problem.
The fact is humans aren't designed for space, and we need to change that.
But thankfully we are now coming to and era when we can change our design, and scientists and biotech companies are aggressively moving foward with our understanding of our genetic code. Soon we will be able to manipulate ourselves in order to maximise our potential rather than wasting it on flawed designs. And what better way of using this technology than to prepare ourselves for our glorious leap to space?
We should begin thinking about mass programs of genetic alterations to able us to function better in outer space and under low gravity situations. Things like a more efficient oxygenation system or perhaps even extended our visual range could make a vast difference to our hopes of survival, and by doing it to the germ plasm itself we avoid clunky cybernetic solutions that are unnatural and inefficient.
Whilst I'm sure this idea will be greeted with outrage from people with an emotional attachment to their biological makeup, it makes perfect sense in the long run. And you can bet that if we don't go ahead and do it a culture with less hangups about their physical bodies will do it in order to get ahead. I'd imagine the Chinese would love the idea...
The only downside is the endless paper-TV ads. "How much would expect to pay for this? $500? $1000? Nope - for an incredible $249 the new BoneGro can be yours!"
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
rr
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Hmmm... so that means if I strap a subwoofer to my ass my bones will get stronger?
And it explains why rap fans are so hard headed....
Temkin
You'd swear those seats were designed to hold munchkins
Its not just the seats, its everything. You get a tiny meal on a tiny plate which you have to eat with tiny knives and forks. You get drinks in tiny little cups, and Coke from tiny cans.
I can't help but get the feeling that if one ever gets to take a tour of Boeing's engineering department, you'll find hundreds of really small engineers toiling away to build better planes for people, all seemingly unaware that real people are much bigger.
Hmmm... so that means if I strap a subwoofer to my ass my bones will get stronger?
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