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Python Painfully Ported to Palm; Plan is "Peer-to-Peer"
An Anonymous Coward gave us the excuse for the above headline with this note: "Endeavors Technology has "successfully developed a highly optimized, open source port of Python to the Palm OS platform" It's called Pippy. The press release is also there. Nice!" Here's a story about the situation.
For the record, Rob Tillotson has created Pyrite, which was compatible to Python 1.5, for the Palm. He has some of the details at http://www.pyrite.org.
While he hasn't done any work on it since December of 1999, I think it's only fair to mention that someone else was there first, created a useable port for Python, & released it under a real GNU license, not some ersatz version.
The Free Source software community for the Palm needs to do a better job of reminding people that they exist, & what they have done for this computer appliance.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
Sure! http://www.python.org/download
Of course, and I highly suspect it, I may be talking out of my ass. -oqti
Python Palm-platform ported!
Poster perusing preliminary press-release ponders programming Perl-free PDAs.
Preppie people prefer Python; Perl pedantic.
Python port "Pippy" passable? Possible. PythonLabs prepared port perfectly.
P2P Python programs particularly pleasant.
(Poster pitches "P"-filled post pre- particularly pernicious puns.)
This is very great news for me.
:-)*
When I bought a Visor Deluxe, I was horrified by the amount of shareware for the Palm.
Don't get me wrong, there is great shareware out there. I paid for GetRight back in my Windows days (I don't have Windows at all anymore). However, the shareware concept has created a fsckload of apps that do the same thing from a bunch of people who want to make a little money from their efforts. Open source allows the bunch of programmers to pool their efforts.
That's why I search SourceForge first for Palm apps.
I have LispMe on my Visor, but Python makes a world of difference. I only recently tried Python and it changed my programming life. I would never imagine making C++ apps for most things anymore, even though I was heavily trained in it.
I now use Python in place of bash in many situations. As a bash freak, that's impressive. I'll type 'python' and do something to a bunch of files now, among other things. I recently had a request from a support guy, "how can I do this" and I wrote a very short script in Python on paper and gave it to him. It would have been a PITA in any other scripting language.
There's a reason why people have been calling Python the "Pascal of scripting languages" recently. It's easy, but powerful. It enforces good style.
It seems that people that learn Python become obsessed with it. I haven't been let down.
I'll definitely downlaoad it. I expect it will be a world of fun. Have I mentioned how fun Python is?
ping?
Same in German.
Forth is a brilliantly designed language for what it does, but it's a pain for most people to think in. The RPN notation just doesn't mesh well with most peoples' cognitive styles.
Running Python on embedded platforms as a way to interact with them will be a very big win. There are a lot of lovely things about Python in this regard: the language is learnable in less than a day, you can easily read other peoples' code, the OOP model is well-designed, and the exception handling is very well thought-out and robust.
I am definitely hoping to have time to bring up a Python interpreter on the next embedded project I'll be working on. If I can release it publicly without violating any agreements, I will.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
That bugged me too at first, but I got used to it. It still sometimes freaks me out when a function ends at a large indentation, but the rest of the language just make too much sense.
ESR said pretty much the same thing on a story you'll find on python.org. I agree with him, except I still use Python for small things I don't want to do in bash.
To the people who've said 'whats the point - I can do native code on this/that compiler' the point is, that you don't need to have a compiler, its kinda like Java, its CPU and (relatively) platform independant.
I can go up to my buddy, and beam my python script across from my MIPS based WinCE palmtop, to his Palm, and he can run it, no recompile, just run it. Pity about them removing the compiler, less memory is good, but fast startup once the code is written is important too.
One other way to think of it is as a shell, for when the GUI just can't do something, script it, quick easy, and half your PC's modules will just import straight in - well, thats been my experience with Python on a palmtop.
I now write my file smashing scripts in a combination of bash and python I call "bashon". This caters to the strengths of both: bash for macro substitution and system commands, python for writing readable code that does nontrivial things. For example, a bashon script that makes n files (3rd parameter) named "foo###" (2nd parameter) in directory xxx (1st parameter) on test partition hda7:
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
I now use Python in place of bash in many situations. As a bash freak, that's impressive. I'll type 'python' and do something to a bunch of files now, among other things. I recently had a request from a support guy, "how can I do this" and I wrote a very short script in Python on paper and gave it to him. It would have been a PITA in any other scripting language.
I now write my file smashing scripts in a combination of bash and python I call "bashon". This caters to the strengths of both: bash for macro substitution and system commands, python for writing readable code that does nontrivial things. For example, a bashon script that makes n files (3rd parameter) named "foo###" (2nd parameter) in directory xxx (1st parameter) on test partition hda7:
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
An equally important reason is speed. Have you tried Java on a PDA? I have it flashed into a helio, a 75 MHz., 32-bit RISC processor with 8 meg or RAM and it takes about 10-15 seconds to switch between apps,. These are *really small* demo apps. Hopefully Python works better. I think it's a safe bet it works a lot better. I'll get a palm now just to use this, and hopefully get this happening on the helio too.
This is finally the point where PDA's get my attention. Coming soon: Python on your cell phone.
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Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Python has always been a superior language to Perl, and its availibility on Palm should encourage its adoption substantially.
I predict that soon businesses will begin running web sites based on Palm-hosted Python CGI scripts. Beyond even the business sector, the low price of Palm computing devices will open up CGI programming to many home users that have been intimidated by using Perl on Unix style OS's.
- qpt
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Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.
So my first question was: "What license is this released under?".
It's released under the "Pippy Open Source License Agreement Version 1", which looks like it'll pass the usual Open Source and Free Software tests. Here's the key part:
The rest is just the usual NO WARRANTY and such.
K45.
This signature has eleven vowels.
Where did the name Pippy come from?
The name Pippy was formed by appending the suffix ".PY" to the acronym PIP (Python In Palm). The name is reminiscent of Pippi Longstocking, a female fictional character of small stature, enormous strength, and unbounded free spirit.
I ported Linux to my Rio 500, and I'm routing IP between the USB port and headphone socket.
From the article:
"Our embedded group...want to be able to put the Python VM on anything that has metal and electricity."
How about a Van de Graaff generator?
The programmers combined the initials in the phrase "Python in Palm" (PIP) with the suffix that ends Python file names (.py) and dubbed the port "Pippy."
Gag me.
--
Sometimes nothing is a real cool hand.-- Cool Hand Luke
LispMe is available here
I prefer it to Python as it doesn't involve the regular usage of exotic Graffiti characters but now that other languages are finally coming,I just can't wait to have a Forth on my PalmIII!
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Trolling using another account since 2005.
(I don't own a palm(-compatible) but I wish I did. Techie toy #1 on the post-graduation buy list.)
Doesn't the PocketC thing require the users to install a runtime or something? Are there any C-like environments for the Palm (that like PocketC run entirely on the device) that compile "pure" binaries (i.e. runtime-less)?
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News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
--Cycon
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
But if they're doing it over an IR port they're probably within arms' reach... So you can shoot them or stab them or pinch their nipple and make 'em holler for their mamma... :-) Come on, how many times have you wanted to get one of the 31337 hax0r d00ds in spanking range?
--
News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
heh, in which case the frustration of doing any thing shell-related in graphitti and over a 1KB/day link is far more punishment than any private citizen could legally inflict on them...
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News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Seemingly slick slashdotter said scarcely simple subject string, sporting seven similarly started subdivisons; Salieri somehow synthesizes something superior.
An appropriately awesome alliteration assembles an acrimonious and astounding array. Moderators: maybe manage me many marks, making my morning?
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This means that we're one step closer to making the most evil timewasting and addictive piece of software ever written portable-- do these people really think that what they're doing is moral?
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Wow, and just last night...
/. would know.
2001-02-23 23:50:39 Perl for Palm? (askslashdot,pilot)
It was about the fact that I'm trying to learn Perl, and is there palm port of it? I had found an answer in the "top ten perl myths" from 2/23/00, in which the author said a Palm port was in the works, but I wasn't satisfied with that. I figured, if there was something out there,
Note that it hasn't been rejected yet!
So now I can confuse myself by trying to learn both lanugages. Excellent....
-J
Karma: T-rexcellent.
_ _ _
I was working on a flat tax proposal and I accidentally proved there's no god.
IANAL, but here's my educated opinion. Take it with a grain of salt; only your attorney can give legal advice.
Clauses 1-5 and 7 look equivalent to the X11 and BSD2 licenses (non-copyleft license; no warranty; include the copyright notice in all copies). But clause 6 seems to kill GNU GPL compatibility:
RMS claims that the GPL doesn't allow "choice of venue clauses" (so as not to bring GPL'd software produced entirely outside the U.S. under the insane U.S. patent system).As much as I want to like this (I used to be a Pippi Longstocking fan), it looks like I won't be able to embed Python in my Palm OS applications.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Of course, I'm just wildly thrashing here. I don't care if this post gets modded up or down.
-Cyc
Apache 1.3.9b3 on palm.arm.body.org
/.'s 10 Millionth
The mindset of Palm programmers seems to be morbidly similar to that of most Windows programmers - develop an app, release it as Shareware with a nag screen and 30-day trial period, then try to make a few bucks by selling your software on PalmGear, so any project to further open development for the Palm is a big step forward.
On the downside, it appears that it wants a device with at least 4MB of memory (Sorry III, V and 2MB Visor owners...) and it doesn't seem to have the ability to create standalone PRC files (thats a standalone application file).
Some of the other alternatives for developing directly on your Palm (no PC necessary; these read MemoPad or DOC files with your source):
Quartus Forth: A standalone Forth interpreter/compiler that is quite powerful; however, the free version can't compile PRCs, and it costs $70 to register.
LispMe is a Scheme compiler, licensed under the GPL. Yummy. Now we just need a better way to write parentheses in graffiti...
PocketC is an onboard C compiler, distributed as shareware.
And, one musn't forget the ever-helpful Palm OS Programmers FAQ
Good. But I'm pissed that I forgot to post that as an Anonymous Coward. :)
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
Easy, automatic testing for Perl.
Ok ok ok , I conceed the hack-value "because we can" is there - but in order to make python fit on the palm they had to remove floating point number support and a whole lot of other stuff. Wouldn't it be wiser to work of a more capable platform ?
On the other hand I guess this is good news for embedded server market, small footprint python could be useful for those programmers that like to code embedded stuff in the nude (remember *THAT* LJ issue =) )
--
Jon - TheSpork
Yup, this port uses Stackless Python to the best of my knowledge (but you could get a more certain answer by going straight to Jeff Collins). Unfortunately they haven't included the continuation module or the microthread module. Chris Tismer has plans eventually to move a lot of the microthread machinery to C, and maybe at that point, it will find its way into the Palm port.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
FYI...
:)
My employer, MontaVista Software, has ported Python to the embedded platforms we support (I forget if it's been in a release yet... but it is likely that a supported Python port will be available in or for our CDK2 release).
Also, someone (outside the company, forget who) has ported an older version of the Python interpreter (pre-1.5.2) to run entirely without an OS... though that port was, of course, missing major functionality (eg. file support).
Of course, I'm just a ground-level grunt... and I'm not speaking for my employer just now. Mmm-ker, everyone?
In the README they say "There is a GUI problem with PalmOS 3.0 that we are investigating", and at startup it warns me that I don't have at least PalmOS 3.5, but I just wrote some trivial code in and so far I haven't seen any problems with running it on 3.0.
Anyone discover what the issues with 3.0 are yet? Anyone dare try some serious recursion?
K45
This signature has eleven vowels.
Pish-posh! persons pressing puns painstakingly perplex potential Petrified Portman posters.
It would be even better if the Pippy folks made sure it runs on embedded Linux and the BSDs as well. Of course, I'd also like to see the Python folks spend a bit of time making the Pippy subset a part of their thinking. Call it "Factored Python" or some such.
This strikes me as a really useful path for Python as a whole to pursue. I really like Python's general runtime model, and an extremely lightweight version would be valuable for all sorts of things.