Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the blue-screens-everywhere dept.
Imran wrote: "CNET has an in-depth review of Windows XP's second beta release, with focus on performance, stability, and the new Mac OS-ish interface. Lots of screenshots, too."
2GB hard drive space? 128Meg RAM minimum? What are they trying to run here, Nautilus (rimshot)
Seriously though, is this the 'future' of software? Bloatware? Where will this leave users with yesterdays computers? Ohright..
My biggest gripe tho is the 2GB they talk about needed. The biggest, baddest install of Debian I can come up with is smaller then that, and we're talking about enough development tools and libraries to recompile the kernel, the display server, the UI... I don't even want to think how big Visual Studio XP will be. Save me!!!
how will the firewall effect P2P?
by
Sanity
·
· Score: 3
I note that there is now a built-in firewall, I wonder what this will mean for P2P applications such as Napster, Gnutella, and Freenet. Will this application permit incoming connections? Will software producers need to get "authorized" by Microsoft to allow the application through the firewall? What does this mean for free software on Windows?
--
Re:how will the firewall effect P2P?
by
pheonix
·
· Score: 3
You're making the implicit assumption that the interface will allow you to open ports. That's not necessarily a safe assumption to make. Microsoft has been known to do some rather odd things for the sake of "security" or "standards" or "making it easier for the end user". It's no big stretch to assume that they might make it hard or even impossible to open a port by the end user. I can think of a number of ways for them to do this and allow things like web servers that are blessed by MS to work...
Don't you know how firewalls work? Just because every one YOU have used gave you the ability to give ports pass-through capability doesn't mean THIS one will be customizeable at all. -Jer
Re:Shutting down - foulup central.
by
ajv
·
· Score: 5
Actually, WinXP Pro and Per both contain multi-user bits, both in terms of how X11 does it, and in the TermServices method. As most of you clueless./ weenies wouldn't have a clue how to make two Xservers work side by side (Ctrl-Alt-F7 / F8 for example), these features are unusual for you guys.
Both Pro and Per allow other users to take control of your desktop using Remote Desktop Connection. This uses RDP, just as TermSrv does
Both Pro and Per use the TermSrv's multiple winstations to have multiple users logged on at once. I've installed software as administrator in one session and read e-mail and surfed the web in another.
The hotkey to go between users and the replacement for SAS is very nice too: Win-L. This allows me to go to the toilet in safety with many fewer keystrokes than before, and even beats the good ol' xlock for non-rodent use.
In addition, NT has always had impersonation. This allows software to run as something else. This is like a more granular version of seteuid(), but nicer and more granular. Most people didn't know about it because it's mainly for programmers. For example, the Server process impersonates you when you connect through ipc$ so that when it tries to do something, it does it with your credentials, not the System's. And unlike Unix, a single process can impersonate many different security principals simulataneously.
For the more Unix like approach to su, such as sudo or priv, in Win2K they gave us some UI and a service to make it easier: runas. Hold down the shift key on a program and use Runas to run as another security principal. This comes through for Pro, but they're busy hiding it in the mom-n-pop Per.
And ever since NT 3.1, services have been running as different users to what you might log in as.
In NT 4.0 reskit, there's a little utility to log in remotely to a command console. This is brought forward in the Win2K reskit. This logs you in without a UI on the remote host, and you can run all your favorite command line tools. Which in NT 4.0 is useless but in Win2K is useful as you can do nearly everything via the cli (the number of cli.exe's jumped from ~80 to over 400). But why you'd want to when you can use MMC on your local box to do ~everything and install the RDP admin service for (1.0 - ~everything), it remains astonishing to me that people would subject themselves to such torture.
All this multi-user stuff works and is very smooth. Now line up, according to the NDA, I have to kill you.
-- Andrew van der Stock
Much better review out there, see link below
by
Zico
·
· Score: 5
Check out Paul Thurrott's review at his WinSuperSite page: www.winsupersite.com. Whether or not you share his enthusiasm for WinXP Beta 2, at least he presents an enormous amount of information about it (I haven't even read it all yet). From some of the misinformed posts based on the c|net review (which apparently, from their screenshots was based on an older build) to questions I'm seeing asked which I remember seeing answered by Paul, I'd say that he did a more thorough job of it.
(Note that Paul's isn't technically the latest build either. His was based on build 2462, but MS made a last minute change and released build 2462a as Beta 2.)
Cheers,
Shutting down - foulup central.
by
WasterDave
·
· Score: 3
I notice on the screenshot for the login page two things:
(1) The number of running apps that some users have open, including the Administrator.
(2) A button to shut the machine down.
Does this mean that non root^H^H^H^HAdministrator users can shut down higher privaleged (sp) programs? And services? All this time after the original release of NT (1994?) do Microsoft still not understand multi user OS's?
Ding-Dong the DOS is Dead!
by
meldroc
·
· Score: 3
The one basic change that I've noticed that many people have overlooked is that Win XP is using the Win NT/2000 kernel and finally retiring the MS-DOS/Win 3.1 codebase. Say "So long" to all the MS-DOS drivers that mucked things up. Kiss goodbye to hidden pieces of 16-bit code lurking inside of Windows' innards. I won't miss having to put up with an OS that swiched to cooperative multitasking and froze everything while one misbehaved program refused to relinquish control. Good riddance to holes in the memory protection architecture that allowed misbehaved programs to scribble on the kernel.
It only took fifteen years after Intel released the 80386 (first x86 CPU with 32-bit addressing & registers, virtual memory, a usable protected mode (though Protected mode and virtual memory date back to the 286) for Microsoft to remove all the 16-bit code from its OSes and move to a more worthy architecture.
--
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
You can't steal free software
by
Tofuhead
·
· Score: 3
Well we wouldn't want people to steal something that they have not paid for. The MS programmers need to receive payment to take care of their families and if you steal the software that they make you are going to hurt them in the long run. This is one reason why MS takes precautions to keep theft at a minimum.
Well then what else are they supposed to steal? Stuff they have paid for? Whoops, I forgot that with Windows EULAs, that's exectly what MS would like to have us believe they're doing, especially if they're doing so much as (gasp) buying Windows from a friend who got (read: bought) it with his PC but never once used it.
See, that's the great thing about free software: There's no paranoia over making sure you're "legal," because there's no way to steal it. Unless, of course, someone's trying to swipe my FreeBSD CDRs, in which case all their bruise are belong to my fist.
Oh yeah...Activation....
by
NetJunkie
·
· Score: 3
The current builds have to be activated, just like a retail copy. When I've done the activation is has been quick and easy. If you don't have an Internet connection you have to call...but since mine are connected I just do it over the internet.
Also, there is a difference between activation and registration. Registration is optional...that's where you fill out the form and send them info about you and your system. If you do not activate the system it will start warning you in a week. If time runs out the system won't be useable until you do activate it.
I've been using the beta of XP, and so far it has been stable...especially for a beta. The interface takes some getting used to, and frankly, I find it a little too cutesy. Also, they have dumbed down a lot of the file options so that a user will have to try and delete important things. So, you have to spend the first 15 mins after an install turning off these self-protection options.
Games have been working fine.... IE6 is nice (I'd kill for IE under Linux).... The install was easy.... And the stability is there.
Man.. that was way harsh.
by
citizenc
·
· Score: 3
I'm sure your post won't be the first -- I don't understand why everybody keeps slagging on MS. I'm currently running Windows 2000 Server as my webserver in the corner of my room; it runs Apache, an FTPdaemon, and ActivePerl, and has had an uptime of almost 3 months, completely error free.
I'm getting really tired of people just blindly assuming that Microsoft is going to turn out a poor piece of software. Have you even RUN Windows 2000? It is the most stable operating system I have ever seen, and yes, I've run Linux as well.
This isn't flame bait, or a troll, or anything else -- it is simply my opinion.
Re:Automatic Update is a feature?
by
SuiteSisterMary
·
· Score: 3
It sucks, but that's what they are up to.
Yeah. Thank god that in the commercial UNIX world, you never ever see companies selling licenses that need to be activated.
Why, worse yet, they might even tie licenses to the hostid!
Wait a minute.....
-- Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Modeling the installation requirements with the following:
1.00 50
2.00 120
3.00 320
4.00 650
5.00 2000
where the first column is Windows generation, and the second column is minimum installation size requirements, produces the following exponential equation:
y = 19.865 * e ^ (0.9067x)
R^2 = 0.9964
Skip to genation 10 to shit your pants. I know this data isn't anything conclusive, but it's fun nonetheless.
Try Konqueror 2.1 - it's fscking amazingly quick at rendering, and is far more standards compliant that IE5.5. I really can't over-state how great it is..
--
-- Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
Why would an operating system need 3 gigs of hd space and 128 megs ram minimum!? That is insane. You need to build a system to use the os, rather than getting an os to use a system.
I admit the hd requirement is probably for their goback feature, which can proabably be reduced if necessary (the gateway goback program has an option to reduce or enlarge the size of the database, limiting or increasing the extent to which you can 'goback' to).
But why is everything else so nasty that even ms admits that it will only work good preinstalled on a new computer?
My only explanation is that they made this bloatware in order to get people to pay extra for an outrageously powerful system, since right now most people are either happy with what they have or are paying $450 for a low-end (only 450 Mhz!) Gateway...
--
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children."
~The Amazon Quartet
(I had to add a space after each slash to get by/. lameness filter)
WINDOWS EXPLORER:
Use windows classic folders (not web view)
Unhide all files
Show extensions
Reverse most other settings in "Folder Options"
Remove spam from 'Favorites' menu
Add to favorites: / prj / volatile "/ Program Files"
Set "Explore" as default for folders
Add 'attributes' column to explorer view
DON'T remember each folder's view settings
Set up a folder, select options/ view/ LikeCurrentFolder
Move address & toolbar to menubar, remove most toolbar buttons
Add "Command prompt here" to 'Folder' file type: / Cmd.exe / k cd %1
DISPLAY:
Set screen resolution to 1240x1024
Turn on anti-aliased fonts
Set font size to large
Turn off "Hide keyboard navigation" (Actually, I don't turn this off anymore)
Change color scheme: Brick
Window bkg: 240 240 220 (Pale tan)
DESKTOP:
Delete all icons except MyComputer, NetworkNbhd, IE5, RecycleBin
Taskbar and startmenu properties:
Display admin tools, display logoff, turn off customized menus
Add buttons to task bar:
IE, Outlook (Express), CMD, Explorer, Calc, TextPad,
DevStudio, MSDN, TaskMan
DIRECTORIES:
Label each drive with its letter
Create / prj Directory
set "HKCU/ Software/ Microsoft/ Windows/ CurrentVersion/
Explorer/ Shell Folders/ Personal" to / prj
Create / apps/ bin and / prj/ bin and add to path
Install DELETE VOLATILE batch file task to run on login
(This does "rmdir / s / q d:/ Volatile" to emulate an
old DOS RAMDRIVE for scratchpad files. I put most temp work
and downloads here until I know I want to keep them.)
IE5:
Set homepage to my own Links HTML file.
Move address and toolbar to menubar, remove most toolbar buttons,
show toolbar icons only (no labels)
Set text size to "large"
Set max temp file size to 20MB (saves lots of time on "find / blah")
Disable stored cookies
Set shortcut to Alt+Ctl+I
INSTALL:
TextPad
Set TextPad as default for all files
(or TXT, CPP, H, JAVA, C, HTML, XML, PL, PY, PM
Copy files from / USER to new installation
Copy textpad reg branch to new installation
Set shortcut to Alt+Ctl+T
LUTRS14 font (From an old terminal emulator -
the best monospace font in the world)
WinZip
Adobe Acrobat
MS Office
JDK
ActivePerl
CygWin32
Anti-Virus
Real Player
Quicktime
Zone Alarm Pro
COMMAND PROMPT:
Set MSDOS shortcut with Alt+Ctl+P key
Set to a good font
Set window size to 500 lines
Set color BG: (200, 200, 170) Text: black
IMPORTANT: Set completion key to TAB
(HKCU/ SW/ MS/ Command Processor/ CompletionChar = 9)
MISC:
Change calculator to scientific view
Change task manager applet to not "always on top"
Set "net use / persistent:no"
Slashdot Mirror
2GB hard drive space? 128Meg RAM minimum? What are they trying to run here, Nautilus (rimshot)
Seriously though, is this the 'future' of software? Bloatware? Where will this leave users with yesterdays computers? Oh right..
My biggest gripe tho is the 2GB they talk about needed. The biggest, baddest install of Debian I can come up with is smaller then that, and we're talking about enough development tools and libraries to recompile the kernel, the display server, the UI... I don't even want to think how big Visual Studio XP will be. Save me!!!
--
Both Pro and Per allow other users to take control of your desktop using Remote Desktop Connection. This uses RDP, just as TermSrv does
Both Pro and Per use the TermSrv's multiple winstations to have multiple users logged on at once. I've installed software as administrator in one session and read e-mail and surfed the web in another.
The hotkey to go between users and the replacement for SAS is very nice too: Win-L. This allows me to go to the toilet in safety with many fewer keystrokes than before, and even beats the good ol' xlock for non-rodent use.
In addition, NT has always had impersonation. This allows software to run as something else. This is like a more granular version of seteuid(), but nicer and more granular. Most people didn't know about it because it's mainly for programmers. For example, the Server process impersonates you when you connect through ipc$ so that when it tries to do something, it does it with your credentials, not the System's. And unlike Unix, a single process can impersonate many different security principals simulataneously.
For the more Unix like approach to su, such as sudo or priv, in Win2K they gave us some UI and a service to make it easier: runas. Hold down the shift key on a program and use Runas to run as another security principal. This comes through for Pro, but they're busy hiding it in the mom-n-pop Per.
And ever since NT 3.1, services have been running as different users to what you might log in as.
In NT 4.0 reskit, there's a little utility to log in remotely to a command console. This is brought forward in the Win2K reskit. This logs you in without a UI on the remote host, and you can run all your favorite command line tools. Which in NT 4.0 is useless but in Win2K is useful as you can do nearly everything via the cli (the number of cli .exe's jumped from ~80 to over 400). But why you'd want to when you can use MMC on your local box to do ~everything and install the RDP admin service for (1.0 - ~everything), it remains astonishing to me that people would subject themselves to such torture.
All this multi-user stuff works and is very smooth. Now line up, according to the NDA, I have to kill you.
Andrew van der Stock
Check out Paul Thurrott's review at his WinSuperSite page: www.winsupersite.com. Whether or not you share his enthusiasm for WinXP Beta 2, at least he presents an enormous amount of information about it (I haven't even read it all yet). From some of the misinformed posts based on the c|net review (which apparently, from their screenshots was based on an older build) to questions I'm seeing asked which I remember seeing answered by Paul, I'd say that he did a more thorough job of it.
(Note that Paul's isn't technically the latest build either. His was based on build 2462, but MS made a last minute change and released build 2462a as Beta 2.)
Cheers,
I notice on the screenshot for the login page two things:
(1) The number of running apps that some users have open, including the Administrator.
(2) A button to shut the machine down.
Does this mean that non root^H^H^H^HAdministrator users can shut down higher privaleged (sp) programs? And services? All this time after the original release of NT (1994?) do Microsoft still not understand multi user OS's?
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
The one basic change that I've noticed that many people have overlooked is that Win XP is using the Win NT/2000 kernel and finally retiring the MS-DOS/Win 3.1 codebase. Say "So long" to all the MS-DOS drivers that mucked things up. Kiss goodbye to hidden pieces of 16-bit code lurking inside of Windows' innards. I won't miss having to put up with an OS that swiched to cooperative multitasking and froze everything while one misbehaved program refused to relinquish control. Good riddance to holes in the memory protection architecture that allowed misbehaved programs to scribble on the kernel.
It only took fifteen years after Intel released the 80386 (first x86 CPU with 32-bit addressing & registers, virtual memory, a usable protected mode (though Protected mode and virtual memory date back to the 286) for Microsoft to remove all the 16-bit code from its OSes and move to a more worthy architecture.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Well then what else are they supposed to steal? Stuff they have paid for? Whoops, I forgot that with Windows EULAs, that's exectly what MS would like to have us believe they're doing, especially if they're doing so much as (gasp) buying Windows from a friend who got (read: bought) it with his PC but never once used it.
See, that's the great thing about free software: There's no paranoia over making sure you're "legal," because there's no way to steal it. Unless, of course, someone's trying to swipe my FreeBSD CDRs, in which case all their bruise are belong to my fist.
< tofuhead >
--
It is still the dark of night.
The current builds have to be activated, just like a retail copy. When I've done the activation is has been quick and easy. If you don't have an Internet connection you have to call...but since mine are connected I just do it over the internet.
Also, there is a difference between activation and registration. Registration is optional...that's where you fill out the form and send them info about you and your system. If you do not activate the system it will start warning you in a week. If time runs out the system won't be useable until you do activate it.
I've been using the beta of XP, and so far it has been stable...especially for a beta. The interface takes some getting used to, and frankly, I find it a little too cutesy. Also, they have dumbed down a lot of the file options so that a user will have to try and delete important things. So, you have to spend the first 15 mins after an install turning off these self-protection options.
Games have been working fine.... IE6 is nice (I'd kill for IE under Linux).... The install was easy.... And the stability is there.
I'm sure your post won't be the first -- I don't understand why everybody keeps slagging on MS. I'm currently running Windows 2000 Server as my webserver in the corner of my room; it runs Apache, an FTPdaemon, and ActivePerl, and has had an uptime of almost 3 months, completely error free.
I'm getting really tired of people just blindly assuming that Microsoft is going to turn out a poor piece of software. Have you even RUN Windows 2000? It is the most stable operating system I have ever seen, and yes, I've run Linux as well.
This isn't flame bait, or a troll, or anything else -- it is simply my opinion.
------------
CitizenC
Fill up your desktop with unused icons, and Windows XP asks you whether you want to keep them, then sweeps them into one tidy folder.
Hey! I wanted to keep those *there*.
"No David, I think you want to keep them *here*."
Stupid Cheap Guitars
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Modeling the installation requirements with the following:
1.00 50
2.00 120
3.00 320
4.00 650
5.00 2000
where the first column is Windows generation, and the second column is minimum installation size requirements, produces the following exponential equation:
y = 19.865 * e ^ (0.9067x)
R^2 = 0.9964
Skip to genation 10 to shit your pants. I know this data isn't anything conclusive, but it's fun nonetheless.
I fail to see, how the interface is "Mac OS-ish". Has the use of silly pastel colors been copyrighted by Apple?
-m-
I would like to die like my grandfather did - sleeping. And not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
Try Konqueror 2.1 - it's fscking amazingly quick at rendering, and is far more standards compliant that IE5.5.
I really can't over-state how great it is..
--
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
Why would an operating system need 3 gigs of hd space and 128 megs ram minimum!? That is insane. You need to build a system to use the os, rather than getting an os to use a system. I admit the hd requirement is probably for their goback feature, which can proabably be reduced if necessary (the gateway goback program has an option to reduce or enlarge the size of the database, limiting or increasing the extent to which you can 'goback' to). But why is everything else so nasty that even ms admits that it will only work good preinstalled on a new computer? My only explanation is that they made this bloatware in order to get people to pay extra for an outrageously powerful system, since right now most people are either happy with what they have or are paying $450 for a low-end (only 450 Mhz!) Gateway...
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet
Here's the list:
/. lameness filter)
(I had to add a space after each slash to get by
WINDOWS EXPLORER:
Use windows classic folders (not web view)
Unhide all files
Show extensions
Reverse most other settings in "Folder Options"
Remove spam from 'Favorites' menu
Add to favorites: / prj / volatile "/ Program Files"
Set "Explore" as default for folders
Add 'attributes' column to explorer view
DON'T remember each folder's view settings
Set up a folder, select options/ view/ LikeCurrentFolder
Move address & toolbar to menubar, remove most toolbar buttons
Add "Command prompt here" to 'Folder' file type: / Cmd.exe / k cd %1
DISPLAY:
Set screen resolution to 1240x1024
Turn on anti-aliased fonts
Set font size to large
Turn off "Hide keyboard navigation" (Actually, I don't turn this off anymore)
Change color scheme: Brick
Window bkg: 240 240 220 (Pale tan)
DESKTOP:
Delete all icons except MyComputer, NetworkNbhd, IE5, RecycleBin
Taskbar and startmenu properties:
Display admin tools, display logoff, turn off customized menus
Add buttons to task bar:
IE, Outlook (Express), CMD, Explorer, Calc, TextPad,
DevStudio, MSDN, TaskMan
DIRECTORIES:
Label each drive with its letter
Create / prj Directory
set "HKCU/ Software/ Microsoft/ Windows/ CurrentVersion/
Explorer/ Shell Folders/ Personal" to / prj
Create / apps/ bin and / prj/ bin and add to path
Install DELETE VOLATILE batch file task to run on login
(This does "rmdir / s / q d:/ Volatile" to emulate an
old DOS RAMDRIVE for scratchpad files. I put most temp work
and downloads here until I know I want to keep them.)
IE5:
Set homepage to my own Links HTML file.
Move address and toolbar to menubar, remove most toolbar buttons,
show toolbar icons only (no labels)
Set text size to "large"
Set max temp file size to 20MB (saves lots of time on "find / blah")
Disable stored cookies
Set shortcut to Alt+Ctl+I
INSTALL:
TextPad
Set TextPad as default for all files
(or TXT, CPP, H, JAVA, C, HTML, XML, PL, PY, PM
Copy files from / USER to new installation
Copy textpad reg branch to new installation
Set shortcut to Alt+Ctl+T
LUTRS14 font (From an old terminal emulator -
the best monospace font in the world)
WinZip
Adobe Acrobat
MS Office
JDK
ActivePerl
CygWin32
Anti-Virus
Real Player
Quicktime
Zone Alarm Pro
COMMAND PROMPT:
Set MSDOS shortcut with Alt+Ctl+P key
Set to a good font
Set window size to 500 lines
Set color BG: (200, 200, 170) Text: black
IMPORTANT: Set completion key to TAB
(HKCU/ SW/ MS/ Command Processor/ CompletionChar = 9)
MISC:
Change calculator to scientific view
Change task manager applet to not "always on top"
Set "net use / persistent:no"