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We've gotten several submissions of this Wired story about life on space station Alpha. The story was written from these logs (which we linked to a few days ago) kept by the commander of the most recent ISS mission. So, let me recommend the logs once again - like the Wired reporter, I found them fascinating reading. For instance, the commander describes losing a washer because everyone's hands were full and they couldn't grab it - obviously letting go of dozens of washers to grab one, in zero-gravity, would not be a good idea - and they can't just "put them down" somewhere.
Velcro.
Exactly how would Velcro keep a washer from flying around?
They do.
/. about it back in December, but I'm too lazy to look it up. The Shuttle took up some of those Panasonic mini-DVD players that had been hacked by a company in the UK to accept any region and bypass the FBI warning and all kinds of good stuff like that.
There was a bit on
In the logs you;ll see a comment about how much better DVD is than the Video CDs they had been watching.
They could also use the magnets to protect their floppies, or other media. Solar flares must be really strong up there. At least that's what my BOfH told me to do.
they really should use IBM Solaris.
You just _know_ the reds have one up there, just waiting for the chance to read the private.. oh, wait, they'll just look over your shoulder instead.. much cheaper.. never mind :)
"'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
Oh, man. Solaris in the context of Russians on a space station. This is getting entirely too Tarkovskyian for me. Did the dead wife of a cosmonaut show up there by any chance?
I makes me feel good to know that the people on the space station spend a lot of time doing exactly the same crap I do.. Hell, I could actually help those guys out..
I wonder if Alpha needs a sysadmin? I promise I won't run warez servers off their bandwidth or anything..
Magnets don't give off electromagnetic radiation if they're not moving around.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
It's an interesting question. Maybe all of the small metallic objects are made out of something like aluminum to save weight? The magnet idea would only work with steel or similar.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
If you're in interstellar space, the thing you threw out will just float away. If you're in earth orbit, it'll fall back a little bit, into a lower orbit, which is faster, and eventually overtake you. Significantly different behavior. You'll learn about THIS if you ever decide you want to know something about orbital mechanics, as opposed to just sounding smart.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
that wouldn't have helped in this case tho...how would they have opened their pockets with their hands so full they can't grab another washer?
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
but they didn't know they were going to be putting things in the pockets, and having open pockets can be a bad thing (catching on things, etc.) Also, there's no way to be sure the pockets wouldn't already be full :P
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
I mean, if I'm preparing a server and some laptops for, like, a trade show or something, I'm making sure everything's setup, working, and that all that has to be done on site is plugging the buggers in
They're not going to a trade show -- they're in outer space. The pressure in the ISS is normalized to approximately 19,000 ft (WAY outside the specs for most harware), the atmospheric content is different, the heat buildup is much more substantial, etc.
Stuff just plain stops working, when it should by all measures be fine. This is part of the drawback of using off-the-shelf tech instead of building everything custom within NASA. Much cheaper, but also more likely to fail...
---------------------------------------------
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
They are dood. they're pucked!
haha Hey that's pretty fuckin smart dood. why aren't you an astronaut? it just takes common sense! :o)
"Watched disk 1 of "Apocalypse Now". Shep tried to explain why Robert Duvall is always wearing the
black cavalry hat, but being a Navy guy, he's not sure he understands it either."
cool, wonder if they have Apollo 13 too..
this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
The magnet-on-a-wriststrap that I saw yesterday might have helped.
[Gee, MS Support uses someone else's mydomain.com instead of the reserved example.com...and won't give info on support options without a Passport account]
Actually there are several ways to detect if you're in orbit. The most popular method in SF decades ago involved floating something, like marbles, in a pattern and watching for distortion. I believe a circle distorts into an ellipse, with shape and timing giving direction and orbit time.
Does the paperclip dance differently in microgravity?
How much is the time of an ISS crew member worth, if NASA can afford to have them spending time fixing their computers?
The washers and other hardware on the space station are most likely stainless steel (316), which makes them non-magnetic. So, I don't think magnets would help....
He tries to reboot, but the Sun application software won't load. Lots of messages on the screen noting data errors. Sergei thinks that it may be the hard drive. He boots up windows to see if the windows partition runs OK--it does. So at least some of the hardware is functional.
;)
I wonder how often someone has to rely on Windows because their Sun OS failed?
load "linux",8,1
My understanding of magnetic properties was that it's defined, created and controlled by the magnetic polarity of the earth. If you're not on the earth, do magnets still work the same way? Ie, if you're outside the Earth's magnetic field, do already magnetized materials still display magnetic properties? Also, is the space station outside of the Earth's magnetic field? Or if it's still within range of the Earth's magnetic field, is the magnetic force on the station less powerful because it's further from the Earth's core than we are?
Apologies if I'm asking stupid questions, but I'm curious.
-alex
I am the king... of No Pants! www.penny-arcade.com
The Russians really have had minimal success in their space program. For example, they never made it to the moon like we did. Also, they had numerous disasters aboard the Mir space station, only to have it plummet out of orbit last month!
Huh? Even NASA said they had faith in the planned Mir deorbit since the Russians have more experience in space than they did!
The NASA web site also has full details of the Russian moon landings, including the Lunakhod moon rovers and the unmanned lunar rock retrieval.
I suppose your post was a troll anyway.
Damn, someone understood what I wrote! I'm impressed.
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Gotta have free hands to open the pouches with. Can't leave them open in a weightless environment.
Hmmm...voice controlled pouches? "Open the pod bay pouches, HAL."
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Most of the discussion on motion is assuming a common frame of reference. Yes, the Earth is moving around the sun, but everything on the Earth is moving at the same speed and is motionless -- relative to other items on the Earth.
It sort of cancels out.
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
So, should there be a comma in there (Sun, AIX) or did Sun just buy IBM?
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Have they never heard of magnets? I'd think one or two of these on a shelf would be a great solution to this sort of problems. Then you COULD put down metallic items (like washers).
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
well i would assume nasa has the "automatically execute scripts" thing turned off. plus they could easily strip all attachments at the mail server. at that point it's as safe as pine or elm.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
What blame are they placing on Microsoft products? The only thing I found was some font problems with the PDF reader, which isn't a Microsoft product but an Adobe product. I couldn't find *ANYTHING* that would have suggested that Microsoft's products were in any way responsible for any of the problems. If you find something, please, share it with us.
Well, now I'm getting very excited about this Russian OS.
What OS are the Russians running?
This has to be investigated properly. Are there any Russian techies around that knows this and can give us a hint.
I'm am allready making wild guesses that this could be some hacked BSD or Linux running on their laptops.
//Pingo
--- Linux or FreeBSD, it's like blondes or brunettes. I like both. ---
I believe the other operating system that Shep was indoctrinated by was Mac.
BS. The Russians were always the most advanced, and if it weren't for their current economic situation they'd probably continue to be. Mir lasted about three times it's initial lifespan. It's a testament to great engineering. It took an absolutely obscene amount of money for the US to make it to the moon, and we haven't been back since. With the same X billions of dollars, I'm sure Russia could have done the same.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
What they need is a standard magnetic parts pan, available from any local car parts/tools shop - these are like a surgical kidney basin, but usually rectangular and have a couple of big bad magnets on the underside enclosed in rubber covers - they stick to any steel surface, parts stick to them. Of course, they may be so careful about weight that they are using aluminium / titanium for everything but I doubt if it would be worth extending to fasteners.
dude, it's email, if you can figure out their email addresses (hint: hack their families home computers first) you can take over the ISS and send it spiraling down after MIR or something.
How we know is more important than what we know.
They need to get a techy up there! "Bob, my email isn't working" "That's because you use outlook, if you would just telnet to the unix box and use pine I wouldn't have to reboot the exchange server every day" "So, umm, are you gunna fix my email?" "In a minute ok? I'm reading Slashdot." And to think, the Internet access was supposed to stop them from going insane up there in space.
How we know is more important than what we know.
"Watched the 2nd CD of "Pulp Fiction" and called it a night. "
Hmm... VCDs perhaps? RM format? DivX? We need an investigation NOW!!! I recommend we send Hilary Rosen up there IMMEDIATELY.
Of course, I could be wrong, and they could have actually lost a washing machine up there. :) Better call Maytag!
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
Read the article. They ARE using Windows (NT) up there. Along with Microsoft Outlook for their mail applications, according to the article. And yes, they are placing a great deal of the blame for the glitches on the Microsoft products. Also noted in the article is that the Russian "unnamed" OS is doing very well; not to mention the star map software by the Russians that could "give the Enterprise a run", as they put it in the article.
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
Damn, man. Hey, I'm tired. Leave me alone.
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
Microsoft will probably claim that the computer problems on the ISS are caused by some form of cosmic radiation.
I think that the source is actually of terrestrial origin. It's probably the hate for Microsoft radiated from members of the Slashdot and geek communities that is focussed and trapped by the Earth's magnetic field.
Next thing you know, we're going to have to get permits from the FCC...
I like the comment of how they lost an airconditioner becasue it ran out of oil. He asks Moscow where all the oil is going and they say we've known for some time. Its good to know the astronauts are up to date. Lets hope this one hits the taco sign
One on't flay rods has gone out of skew on treddle.
One neat thing about the ISS is that whenever their system problems get really bad, the logs talk about them using Norton Ghost to restore a fresh image of the boot partition on one of their machines.
Their comments on the movies they watch are neat too. They watch 'Used Cars' and comment that they are definately getting into the kind of movies that Blockbuster doesn't carry.
Good God! I have a hard enough time keeping my *nix and NT servers on my network here on Earth running happily.
If it's not bad enough, they toss an "unspecified" Russian OS into the mix.
(When they have to call MS for incident support, do they pay loooong distance ontop of the ungodly $$/per incident that MS charges?)
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Does anyone else find it sort of unsettling that NASA censors parts of these logs, and won't let anyone else see them?
Call on God, but row AWAY from the rocks!
Yeah they already had a name for a pesky server that kept going down. The Wiener server. I have done that too. I will be working with something at work, by remote, then someone, or something decides it's a nice time for a reboot and then I exclaim YOU WEINER! :) All computers get nicknames around me. Usually it's Weiner, screwy, honey, POS (Piece of $hit) or beast. Some nicks are not fit for Slashdot consumption (multiple expletive nicknames for different pieces of hardware when they either don't work as advertise, or do and I am a dumbass and can't figure out the problem.).
Gorkman
Calm down, Steve!
toeslikefingers.com - because
However, quite unbelievably satirical ;-)
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
The headline made me want to check out the story. Now that I've read a couple of logs I'm ready to go to sleep.
That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
Dozens of washers? How many loads of dirty clothes did these guys do a day?!
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
Keep the pockets unzipped. Then, put the washers in and zip them.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Okay, I'm no NASA engineer, but would attaching zipper pockets to their suits to allow people to "put things down" in zero g be so difficult?
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Up early. We were working late last night with the PCS configuration "patches", and wrestling with the UNIX commands. Laptops were reloaded and left shut down while other files were uploaded to the MDM's. The word from Houston this a.m. is to wait another rev to connect the first laptop so that we're sure the changes to the C&C computers are complete.
They really do have system administration problems.
These guys really DO need some Geeks In Space(tm)!
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
The Russians really have had minimal success in their space program. For example, they never made it to the moon like we did. Also, they had numerous disasters aboard the Mir space station, only to have it plummet out of orbit last month!
...perhaps NASA should step aside from the ISS, and allow other space agencies to take over.
Give credit where credit is due. The Russians had some impressive "firsts" in space, and they have had a lot more people in space over the years than we have. Mir had a lot of problems, but it also outlived its design by many years. And plummeting out of orbit? That was planned, Buckwheat. It didn't take anyone by surprise except you, apparently.
Other space agencies like...? Who, the ESA? We should just turn over a few billion worth of hardware to another country? Or maybe you mean one of the dozens of other American space agencies, like... Oh, wait. My memory is failing. Maybe you can name some for me.
No, the "HUGE problem" would be if the station's computer systems were compromised in such a way that could put the lives of the crew members at risk. I'm not saying it's bound to happen or terribly likely, but it is certainly possible, given the nature of the network technology they're using.
One line from the article got me thinking...
> The log seems to indicate that the crew is using Microsoft Outlook as their e-mail client.
Ok, they're not only using Windows, but Outlook as well? What kind of security implications might this have? I'm sure the use of the e-mail to and from the space station is fairly well regulated, but then again, government web sites and e-mail servers have been compromised more times than anybody can count. One would figure, though, that such problems would be considerably more serious if they affected a station orbiting miles above the Earth...
Because then it wouldn't look just like Mir, only bigger. Reagan wanted "parity" (ie: the same stuff only better) with the Soviets, remember the station was designed in the Cold War. It was supposed to be launched as Space Station Freedom in 1994, but they missed the deadline due to cutbacks when the Cold War ended.
Floppies in space. I do understand that NASA wants well tested stuff up there, but tested and FAILED?
What's up with that dedacted shit?
--------
get jiggy w/ ayn rand!
"We were configuring SSC2 to run a CD when it decided to lock up. After repeated attempts to restart, Shep and Sergi went through a long attempt to extract files from the SSC's hard drive before reloading the SSC software. Used the startup disk in the onboard software suite, but could not find a particular file while hunting around with DOS. This would have been much easier with some bootable media (CDROM?) that could run Windows. (Or if Shep was not indoctrinated by that other operating system). We may need an emergency boot capibility again After 5+ attempts, finallygot the hard drive to take an image off the ghost CD. One of the Autoloader floppies went down but SSC 2 is now running normally. (3+ hours troubleshooting)."
(Or if Shep was not indoctrinated by that other operating system).
What I want to know is first what is that "Other operating system"
Second is it just me or is it scary they trust a 3.5" floppy to be reliable.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
"Approx 0930--Put the CDMK analyzer out and measured CO2 levels for a while in the SM. CDMK put on panel 449 for now. Readings were steady at 0.38 (we think this is percent). Turned the CDMK off to save the batteries, but ready for more readings when requested."
The Mars global observer team must have thought something similar when conducting their measurements. Does Nasa have something against verification.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
"Certain operational, debriefing material has been edited from the Expedition One ship's log. This material has been identified as "Redacted." This material is considered an integral and critically important element of the on-going, deliberative decisional process NASA is undertaking related to long-duration International Space Station missions. This process must include necessary give-and-take communications about all aspects of crew and station performance. To be effective, these communications require absolute candor in discussion that would not be available if parties to the exchange, including intended recipients on the ground and future crewmembers, thought the material might be released to the public."
Does anyone else after reading these logs believe that crap? The only material that seems to be missing is the personal comments about the station crewmembers. I agree candor is important but so is the ability of the public to decide for them selves if the station and crew is worth the massive amounts of money that our governments are spending on it. I am not asking for or expecting a soap opera however if something was serious enough to require removal from the logs it makes me wonder why. I would like to know if the US and Russian crewmembers get along. How well they work together and some information about their day not just about the mechanical problems that were encountered.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
I really only see one specific reference to a Windows NT problem in the logs...
At about 2200, we were reconfiguring some mail files which, with a lot of help from Windows NT, got put in the wrong place during the backup procedure.
Beyond that, they seem to be complaining about a lot of hardware-relating things.
When we finished restoring the files, the network was down and would not come back up. We worked this for several hours. Finally, jiggling some cables brings just a part of the net back. (that really instills confidence in the stability of your network). And when they're not jiggling cables, they're bitching about the wireless nodes on the LAN.
They also run Unix, so where can we find more evidence of Wired's claim that "Most of the problems appear to be related to Microsoft's Windows NT"?
Okay, there is the Jan 21st entry: "We are continuing to see some strange things on our e-mail". But I see strange things on my e-mail every morning. They should just run a Inbox Rule to filter out references to "credit rating", "get out of debt" and "hot teens". That would eliminates much of the strange stuff.
--
When you read the logs you'll find out that they use radio lan onboard the ISS. As we all know how 'secure' this stuff is, I wonder if someone with a sensitive antenna could sniff some packets? *giggles*
/.tted suckerz!"
...
:))
I can see the headlines before me now:
"Nasa reported yesterday that the computer systems at ISS are down for good. They say that the computer screens display wierd messages like:
o "You got
o "All your station are belong to us!"
Nasa is still investigating on the matter. Meanwhile the astronauts on the station try to get their radio lan back online
Each of the thorougly researched Nasa Mission Reports books has massive amounts of data, diagrams and photos (CDs enclosed with each volume contains mpeg videos and low-rez scans of all the 70mm photos available from that mission.)
There's so many things you need to think about when you design a spacecraft cabin. How do people sleep? (in a bag), how do you fasten it to the cabin wall, (velcro?), how do you drink? Where do you put stuff to keep it from floating away? How do you go to the bathroom? (In the days before nice space shuttle zero G toilets) - you get to hear from the astronauts themselves exactly what it was like, the little things that pissed them off, the solutions they came up with to fix stuff when it broke. The latter Apollo missions each lasted about a week, which of course don't compare to the extended stays on board the ISS, Mir or even Skylab. But these books are still a great read. I particularly recommend the Apollo 11, 12 and 13 volumes. I just ordered the Apollo 14 book, I'm sure it will be as exciting and detailed as the rest.
As we learned from the Simpsons, flying debris can be deadly in a space shuttle: Homer: "Hey guys, look what I smuggled aboard!" [Shows a bag of chips] Buzz Aldrin: "Homer, no!" Race: "They'll clog the instruments!" [Homer opens the bag, chips float about] Buzz: "Careful, they're ruffled!" ...
[after Homer's head smashes into the ant colony]
Buzz: "You fool! Now we may never know if ants can be trained to sort tiny screws in space!"
---
You know, I'm weary of testing any "Alpha" software, let alone living on an "Alpha" space station. Perhaps I'll wait until it's at least considered "Beta" and then consider trying it out.
They are, after all, a bunch of users.
You can tell a college man, but you can't tell him much.
Couldn't this be modded out?
I take serious offense being a Jew and a regular slashdot reader.
Free speech is cool, but what the FUCK is this? It's just straight hate.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Everyone in a while network neighborhood decides it's going to throw a hissy fit and not work with Samba. Then suddenly, something like this happens. "We are having a hard time understanding the how and why, but everything is working," Amazing.. The space station's problems are just like those of the rest of the world. I do however enjoy the reboot until it's fixed part of troubleshooting windows. When linux mucks up, something really is wrong.
They're having difficulties with the mail server, file server, configuring the laptops?
I mean, if I'm preparing a server and some laptops for, like, a trade show or something, I'm making sure everything's setup, working, and that all that has to be done on site is plugging the buggers in. I find it amazing that the space crews have to worry about reconfiguring the things. I guess they're getting software update, but programs with the mail and file servers? No matter what the OS, there's those no reason for those to be wonky.
I'm going to guess that a lot of the problems have to do with the lack of contact with the ground - for most of Expedition One, they only had sporatic contact with the Russian ground crew - now that the Destiny module is installed, they should have constant contact with the Houston. So hopefully the ground can log in and reconfigure the servers and whatnot remotely without the crew having to "wrestle with UNIX commands."
--
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
- Nietzsche
...they appear not to be using a mail server, but instead they seem to be sending/receiving it by transmitting .OST files (which is Outlook's internal binary storage format for all the e-mail messages), which presumeable get opened in Outlook on the ground, dealt with (send messages in Outbox, recieve new messages), and sent back up. That's what I've picked up from the logs, anyway.
;)
Sounds like a hack to me - guess they didn't want to set up a real server. I really wish NASA would post details on how this whole network thing works so we could properly dis it.
--
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
- Nietzsche
Oh, quit kvetching!
They could have used NASAs brillant own invention velcro
How does one lose a washing machine? I mean how big _is_ this International Space Station?
Aparently the old saying "You have to be a rocket scientist to run linux" isn't true after all...
-EvilMonkeyNinja
a.k.a. Joseph Nicholas Yarbrough
Security Grunt by Day
Programmer by Night
-EvilMonkeyNinja
Mild Mannered Host by Day
Wild Hammered Programmer by Night