Slashdot Mirror
Tad Williams To Release To Web
H.I. McDonnough writes "Tad Williams, author of the near future sci-fi series Otherland and the fantasy series Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn will be releasing a new fantasy series on the web. From the site:
"Shadowmarch is not going to be simply a novel to download. It will be a serial story -- episodic, presented in regular installments more like a television show, that can either be downloaded and perused at leisure (even printed out) or read right on the site. There will be art, maps, and background history of the world, all available as part of the package."
I don't know if any other major author has tried this. You can read the free prelude on the site at http://www.shadowmarch.com." The whole she-bang is supposed to launch June 1. But I will say that this looks more like what I think the online publishing will be like - less like King's "The Plant" idea, which was still dumb, IMHO.
On a different note, I wish Williams would hurry up and finish the Otherland series so I can stop buying the damn things. I don't like them anymore, but I feel that I've already invested so much time and money in the first 3 books that I have to see it through to the end.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
One of the strongest facets to the Gutenberg project, in my mind, was that you could read all of Ulysses by gophering to the site, in one sitting.
Unless there's real monitary reasons, I'd be much more willing to release whole stories instead of episodes.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I haven't read any of his earlier works and I still need to finish the series (4th of 4) just came out ... Some may disagree but I think Otherland is incredible - cyberpunk, mythology, fantasy, sci-fi all woven into the epic - most of the action takes place in a virtual reality world where visitors are hooked into physical life support systems while they explore online realms that vary as the limits of imagination, all vividly detailed ...
AZspot
Sea of Silver Light is hitting stores this month. Should already be out in the US and out in the UK next week. Prelude is out at tadwilliams.com Chapther 1 is displayed at amazon.com and barnesandnoble.com
I think the concept of serialization is interesting though, get you hooked and then jack up the price (as it were). But, it has been done before in 19th century newspapers with Dickens or Conan-Doyle, and I predict that this may prove to be as popular today as it was then. (Whether or not these stories are of any quality will prove how enduring they are, though.)
But thats the internet in a nutshell isn't it? Try anything once...
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crazy dynamite monkey
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crazy dynamite monkey
...was that it didn't really take into account the realities of digital media. The two big problems are cost vs. value, and the potentially ephemeral nature of digital documents.
Sure, I paid for the first installment, and enjoyed it. The projected final cost of the novel was between $15 and $25 though--far too much, in my opinion, when you don't recieve a nice hardcover volume. If you expected to print out the work, even at the modest cost of a nickel a page your total would be between $30 and $40.
Reading online is all good and well, but I think almost everyone can agree that it is easier and nicer to have hardcopy for literature. This means that the cost, at minimum, must be lowered to the point where people can realistically print it out for the same cost as the hardcover.
Second, The Plant didn't take into account the fact that people download files, then accidently delete them, or change computers and forget to transfer little things between them, or simply are lazy and want to download again for each location they access from. Should people who have paid for a copy and lost it (much easier to do than with a book) be forced to pay again? This fact was not taken in account when the pay-through percentage was calculated.
Hopefully Williams is addressing both these problems-no word yet on cost, but it appears that there will be a login system to access the online version, rather than a pay-for-play download of the serials. This, at least, is a major improvement in my mind.
If the online serial is anything like Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, it will be well worth reading. Tad writes wonderfully rich stories and covers character development and depth better than many fantasy/sci fi authors. Ranks right up there in my mind with the Pern stories, the Book of Swords stories, and WoT books.
Also, what sort of formats will he be dealing with? Will it be a nasty IE-only site loaded up with Quicktime and Flash5 movies? If he makes it downloadable will it be in a nice portable format that I could use in my Rocket eBook, for example? That's what I think of when I see "downloadable format". (FYI, I'm reading King's traditional new novel Dreamcatcher that way.)
Duane
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
WHAT??
How did what you post make any sense at all???
Writing needs to be open source??? Yeah, right! I think that kind of underminds the purpose of most authors - if you have a creative vision, then it is your creative vision - not anyone else's. If you so choose to share that vision with the world, so be it, I think that's great.
Perhaps you mean to "open" the publishing schemes, but there is no way in hell that writing should be "open" - that's not quite the way to write a coherent story.
On the other hand, nice troll. Look, you even got us to respond...
Hi! This is the Sig, blatantly attached to the end of this comment.
FWIW, for the past 8 months I've done almost all my reading on my Handspring Visor and I have to say that for me, it beats the hell out of paper books. The screen simply hasn't been an issue and I love the convenience of:
1. Being able to finish one book at 3 a.m., go to Baen.com or Fictionwise, and immediatley get something new to read.
2. Not having to hold a book open and continuously turn pages.
3. Being able to read in the dark with a backlit display.
4. Not using up any more of my (already packed) shelf space.
Before I tried it I didn't really think it would work very well either, but, having tried it I don't think I'll ever go back.
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
Williams is not the first 'major' author to publish in this fashion. JMS (Babylon 5's creator) published a serial novel to an online site called Bookface.com. Users religiously logged on every Monday as new segments were made available.
Bookface had a reading interface that was likened to 'streaming text'--it downloaded a piece of the book at a time, and as you reached the end of the segment, it pulled another. Sort of like the segments of an escalator.
The user interface surprised a lot of people--many skeptics were converted after they found that they had just read online for an hour without even realizing it. The width of text on the screen was designed to emulate the approximate size of a paperback book. You hit the spacebar to advance to the next page, like a visceral reminder of flipping the leaves of a book. You could search through the text of the work you were reading, or search against all of the books in the database. When you returned to a book after a prior reading session, it would return you to where you left off. You could leave annotations to yourself, anchored on certain text--think of it as highlighting a passage and adding a note reminding you WHY you highlighted it at the same time.
Unfortunately, the downturn of the internet sector clobbered Bookface. The company did have good momentum, partially because printing a trade novel to paper is a costly process (to address the assertion of another poster)--electronic publishing is a less expensive alternative, and it reduces time to market. Perhaps once the economic climate returns to "Sunny and Warm", the founders of Bookface will resurface.
bryguy
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
I have no problems reading electronic text. I've read quite a few novels via my old Palm Pilot Pro. The only hassles I deal with is occasionally having to reformat the text so its comfortable on the Pilot and dealing with the Pilot Pro's limited memory (which means creating multiple doc files and shuffling out the old for new to keep up with where I am in the story).
I have been suprised to find that I have no problems with the interface. I find myself just as immersed in the text as when I read a traditional paperback book. It is easier to carry the novel around and read it at oportune times. And, as a bonus, I get a book light for reading when it gets dark.
Others report having a hard time reading with this format. Usually the complaints center on the readability of the text rather than the reading tools themselves. After all, the Pilot wasn't designed as an electronic book - so its no suprise that some find the experience unsuitable.
Does that mean the end of paper books? I hope not.
I still like traditional books. There is still something about the experience of a book that can't be replaced by a glossy electronic device. And I like to have my book shelves populated by my favorite works - quite often hard cover copies of series that I particularly liked. Again, its not the same as a directory of file names... even if you do something Nautilus-like with a nice cover art icon.
I would love to buy a book and be able to slip out the included CDROM to load up my Pilot before placing the book in my library. But I suspect publishers would have little incentive to do this. Instead, I suspect the model would be something along the lines of buying hard cover books for my library and (hopefully) a reduced fee to download the electronic text.
This wouldn't be the end of the paper book. But paperbacks may become the casualty in this arangement.
Yeah, but the guy writes whole books in real life. Not serials. This is completely different for him.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Ever since I read "The Science of Hitting" as a child, I've been eager to read more of his work.
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wcb
Or, perhaps, you mean that all writing should be "free" (as in beer). Because if the literary work is the "compiled product," the real "source" of one's writing, insofar as I can tell, is the collection of experiences of an author. I've already seen some responses here saying, "yeah, imagine if we had to pay for Shakespeare" or whatnot-- First point-- shakespeare was PAID for what he wrote, just not by you. Secondly, Shakespeare's plays and poems were not written in a write-something-and-pass-it-on fashion (unless you're one of those people that believe he didn't actually write anything). The "collaborative" elements that inspired his work came from other plays and writings that had come before him, world mythology and the history of civilization, and from his own personal experiences and trials and experimentations.
They did not come from a committee submitting literary "patches" for his sonnets.
If writing is to become a truly creative medium on a par with programming
Is this a joke? Are you also advocating open-source painting? If so, maybe you can help me get a paintbrush into MOMA-- I'd like to make a few improvements to some of the Picassos.
In short, if you really believe all writing should be definition be collaborative, please forward your Slashdot password so i can submit better informed opinions.
I kinda feel like this is a troll or I'm just missing the sarcasm.
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This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
In fact, I think that Tad Williams is the only "fantasy" novelist to out-Tolkien Tolkien himself. His novels have amazing complexity, some of the deepest and best-realized characters imaginable, and Williams has even gone through the effort of writing several original languages to flesh-out his worlds.
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automatictaxistopelectriccigarettelovebaby
I wish Williams would hurry up and finish the Otherland series so I can stop buying the damn things. I don't like them anymore,
...but no, there was a reason it was at the Dollar Store.
I haven't read anything of his since picking up Caliban's Hour at the Dollar Store. I thought, 'hey, Memory, Sorrow and Thorn kicked ass! This novel is only a buck, must be my lucky day!'
Was that his only flop? I never read any of the Otherland stuff. (I'll likely download this serial thingie, though, it sounds cool...)
"Smear'd with gumms of glutenous heat, I touch..." - Comus, John Milton
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
The gist of MSoT is, what happens after "they lived happily ever after"? The novel starts with the death via old age of Prester John, the land's beloved king who, in legend, slayed a dragon and built his throne from its bones. The king's sons start a struggle for the throne, but the real story follows a scullery boy named Simon as he flees the castle and "dark forces" (oooh) that are pulling the strings.
It's all pretty basic Joseph Campbell stuff, except that there is no blind "here's the archetypal hero, here's the archetypal bad guy" stuff. The characters of MSoT (and there are a LOT of them) are all very deep and complex; Tad Williams is clearly aware that from each character's perspective, the story being told is their own.
In fact, this storytelling tendency even gets Williams into a little trouble. The first volume of the "trilogy" is enormous. The second (and fastest-paced of the set) isn't quite as large; the third is twice the size of the first. In paperback, the third is simply sold as two gigantic paperbacks. There's an amazing amount of story stuffed into this simple premise.
There have been rumors of Tad Williams doing another set of novels in the MSoT "universe," and I know of one additional short story set as a prelude to MSoT. Shadowmarch might be this additional set of novels -- "Qul-na-Qar" sounds like a city right out of MSoT, and the Twilight People are probably the Sithi. Maybe.
A couple other things: I haven't been able to get into the sci-fi epic he's spent most of the 90's working on. Sorry. VR fiction just doesn't do much for me after Snow Crash. But I really want to give it another chance.
also: Serial fiction rules. For six months I was absolutely GLUED to Barnes & Noble waiting for the chapters of Green Mile to come out. It is so great to have something to look forward to so much every month. Remember when X-Files was at its height and you couldn't wait to see each new episode? It's like that, but literary. This is gonna be FUN.
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automatictaxistopelectriccigarettelovebaby
you've pretty much blown your chance of getting a conventional publisher to pick it up.
So you say. I argue: a) online distribution is not a bellweather for print success, nor do the audiences overlap to any great extent; b) the market for e-books of any format remains largely nascent.
The fact is that this is an established author, not King, granted, but he could get this book between covers if he wanted to. I'd be more interested in the experience of a new author using this model more. I think this is a legit road to print for a new author, building a demonstrated market for her work which only enhances its value to potential publishers.
illegitimii non ingravare
of the qualities of the medium. Serialization allows for content to be refreshed regularly, for audience to build through word of mouth as the series progresses. It is also widely accepted conventional wisdom that folks don't like to sit and read from the screen for extended periods of time, present company excepted.
illegitimii non ingravare
I am with you. I think that the serial has a new lease on life with the distribution economies the web makes available. Its also a great way to tell a story if done well. The plodding and repetetive cliffhangers of pulp's hayday are thin gruel against the plotting of a Dickens.
illegitimii non ingravare
There is a good one: the afficion (passion) model. Let the big money folders retread their backlist. There is going to be an explosion of really good writing soon. It makes market for all the stuff that is to small to hit the radar screen of the big boys. First indie music, then indie movies, now indie fiction.
illegitimii non ingravare
Having read all of Williams and most of Jordan, Williams' "Memory Sorrow and Thorn" blows away "The Wheel of Time." It's really really good. Unfortunately, his later stuff (The "Otherland" series) doesn't measure up as well IMO.
Anyone read Margret Weiss and Tracy Hickman's DeathGate Cycle Series? I liked them also.
My favorite Otherland character? He is finally figuring out who he really is ... well, sort of ...
AZspot
The only way to determine what will work and what won't is to have the testicular fortitude to try it. I think that King's "experiment" had less to do with "testicular fortitude" and more to do with "making a quick buck". I'm sorry, but taking an outdated (20 years) throw-away short story (it was originally given as a Christmas gift to a few friends) and stretching it out until the money stops coming in is NOT what I would consider a serious attempt at publishing. Rumor among the publishing circles, by the way, is that he got bored with the story, not that the revenue model wasn't working. Regardless of the reasons, the fact remains that he stopped. Now all the people that did pay ended up with nothing but a few CHAPTERS of an incomplete story. An experiment in electronic publishing indeed. King's previous attempt at serialized fiction (The Green Mile) worked because the consumer KNEW that all 6 books would be available right on schedule. By stopping The Plant, King showed himself to be an untrustworthy businessman. Would you ever buy a book by-the-chapter from him again?
No it certainly wan't a dumb idea (the story wasn't so hot, but what else could he use for an experiment outside of his publishing contracts?).
If you go to his web site you can see the expense report for The Plant. He made a fairly nice profit (half a million) considering 1) it was a first-time experiment, 2) it was overpriced, 3) he botched up the mailing list that was supposed to announce new installments, so nobody knew to get the next installment, and 4) the story was a leftover.
He even wrote letters (used to be on his website someplace) to major publications that called it a "failure" saying that it actually wasn't a failure, he made half a million on a book that never even existed on paper! But of course the publishers declined to publish those letters. Wonder why?
I would definitely call it a successful first attempt. Imagine if he works out the wrinkles, gets some better marketing, and tries it with a better book (or in parallel with a regular paper book).
I'm sure glad that SK considers it a success. I'm sure that everyone who paid to download the story, with the understanding that a whole product would be provided, would disagree. But, he might as well make a lot of money at the expense of the fans.
And I don't think it was 'dumb', I think SK intended to stop at some point. He knew he had a flop of a story, but if he flogged it chapter by chapter he could eventually blame the lack of sales on 'pirates', instead of the fact the story sucked.
If he was doing this, for real, he wouldn't have guilt-tripped the paying users into paying more to cover the supposed 'theft' by the nasty 'pirates'. He'd have had a reasonably robust system implemented to make sure that people actually got the section they intended to download, and that replacements could be provided for a reasonable price (free, or $.05 for the bandwidth, etc) for people who lost the original copy.
Instead he set up a system with insane rules, knowing that when it screwed up, he'd be a good bit richer and wouldn't have to actually provide the product.
What a complete ass.
I think I'd actually prefer a novel that was serialised more in the manner of Dickens, because it will avoid the long wait between volumes, which can be as much as two years with a high quality work like George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.
Anyway, I enjoyed Memory, Sorrow, Thorn, so I'll definitely give this a look. (I might even change my mind about not reviewing e-books...
Danny.
I have written over 900 book reviews
One other mistake he made was using percentage of downloads paid as the benchmark. He should've used his profit margin as the benchmark (i.e., I want to make fifty cents of profit for every dollar spent on web hosting and bandwidth, or something), or absolute profit (I want to make one million on this ebook or I won't do another one). If he reaches his goal, who cares how many people have copies of the story? And he should've put something in the PDF itself reminding people to pay if their friend gave them a copy, just on the first page or something. If 1 out of 1000 pays like this, that's pretty good considering copies between friends doesn't cost him a penny.
But I still hope other authors follow his lead and continue the experiment.
Rich
The "correct" English usage of "its" is wrong. That it is accepted practice does not make it correct. It's a stupid rule, and I'm happy every time I see someone using the incorrect, yet more logical "it's".
Bzzzzt. Sorry, thanks for playing though. Its is a possesive pronoun; pronouns aren't modified by the genetive ending ('s). If we apply your 'logic' than it should be he's instead of his and I's instead of mine, and so forth.
Chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
Small followup:
Bzzzzt. Sorry, thanks for playing though. Its is a possesive pronoun; pronouns aren't modified by the genetive ending ('s). If we apply your 'logic' than it should be he's instead of his and I's instead of mine, and so forth.
The 'logic' you mentioned would apply more in (here I'll use some technical terms, since you seem to value that) agglutinating languages (such as many Finno-Ugric languages), or in polysynthetic languages (such as most Eskimo languages), but it generally doesn't apply in inflectional languages (such as most Western European languages), and can't apply in isolating languages (such as Chinese).
"It's" is more technically correct
If you'd like to learn some accurate technical things about languages, I suggest you check out what the Linguists say: http://www.linguistlist.org. Afterall, they spend a bit more time thinking about this kind of stuff, and they use a little more empirical data than their own opinions.
Chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
Hrmm. I hope you're mistaken. A book printed is printed "for keeps" as well. I just find the idea of electronic distribution too compelling to let it rest in the hands of the big houses. E-rights are separable and should be negotiated in this light, but unless you are SK or someone of comparable stature, this is problematic.
The argument I am making, I'd like to see made, is that the new distribution model dramatically alters the value proposition the big publishing houses make for authors, but this has thus far had no impact on the status of authors in negotiation for their IP. The production, inventory and distribution costs have essentially vanished and with no impact on rights valuations; the situation is precisely comparable to that in the music industry. The only value-add publishers provide is editing and quality assurance, effectively noise filtration. Against this the terms of the typically first-time novelist's contract are profoundly insufficient.
Big publishing has only recently allowed its accounting procedures to be audited by a professional association of American writers and they found gross negligence and outright fraud, with costs being inflated in order to ensure that little or no royalties would be due. It is quite common for new authors to be required to reimburse the publisher a portion of their advance. Perfectly criminal, IMHO.
I shamelessly invite you to have a glance at scripsi.com in a week or two.
illegitimii non ingravare