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Loki Offers 50%-off Discounts to LUGs
Robotech_Master writes "Looks like Loki is going to be offering substantial discounts to Linux User Groups wanting to make mass purchases of 10 or more copies of their titles. 50% off, and they cover shipping."
Quite the deal for lugheads. Get your copy of Tribes 2. Loki continues to do really good things. I know things are tough, but hopefully they can make it. Good luck guys.
That's a good point - one I hadn't really thought of. I've ordered the SMAC/Tribes 2 bundle from you, and I bought HG2 from you way back when it came out. In fact, I used the voucher I was given after pre-ordering HG2 at the higher price to pay for part of the shipping (to the UK) of this bundle. OTOH, I'm a LUG organiser, and I've already asked Loki for details of this offer, and announced on the LUG mailing list that I think we should take Loki up on it. I know Loki like you - hell, they recommended I bought SMAC from you rather than using their Digital River-provided store.
I'm suprised to hear that this deal means that LUGs get games cheaper than you. That truely does sound unfair. I assume you heard about this yesterday, which is when I first heard, and I'm suprised that if you asked Loki about it then, they haven't got back to you yet.
Being heavily cynical about this for a moment - what are you going to do about it? You're a store which carries only Linux games, and Loki are still the biggest (though not the only) publisher in the Linux market. Are you going to refuse to carry their games or something? Nope. You'll talk to them, probably shout at them, and you'll work something out with them - I know they've always seemed helpful, reasonable and friendly when I've spoken to them.
This signature is my normal one - it just seems kind of appropriate right here:
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
Sid Meir's Alpha Centauri
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
Well Microsoft stock value is only half of it's previous high.
:)
That's quite a bit different from being worth only 1/20th of it's previous high.
As far as Communism, I suggest you read the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. Communism has nothing to do with Central Planning.
You're thinking of the very poor implementations of Communism by Russia, China, et al.
They never became truly Communist, they got stuck in the "Dictator by the Proletariat" phase that Marx discusses.
But then that's because Marx ignored the old saying "Power corrupts".
Redhat just released their annual report yesterday, and it does not show a company that is breaking even. It shows a company who is further and further in the red each year.
They show a net loss of 53 cents a share. This compared to the net loss of 41 cents a share they had last year, and 13, 8 and 3 of the years previous to that.
I'm curious where you get the idea that Redhat is breaking even?
The last quarterly they lost several million, but they claimed these were a result of one time charges and if you ignored them they actually broke even.
I can't see RedHat sticking around much past 2002, much less being profitable. Same with VA Linux which is in even worse shape financially.
As far as Loki goes... Been there done that, sold the Amiga back in 1991.
I suppose it's time someone examined this more closely. Among my comrades we have always referred to GNU and Linux people as "Software Communists".
There are quite a few similarities really. It's also not surprising that the link was made considering Stallman called his paper the GNU Manifesto.
If you're not familiar, the work by Karl Marx which initiated the vision of Communism was called the Communist Manifesto.
Ahh, sorry. I am not as well versed in Communist propoganda as Linux guys are, I guess. :)
Here's something new: "The world doesn't revolve around you!"
Just because YOU don't have a need for games on Linux it doesn't mean no one else has either. I personally love having Q3, Myth2, Shogo and UT for my Linux box, as a means of entertainment. Eagerly awaiting my Tribes2/SMAC bundle from Tuxgames.
If you don't have a need for Linux games, don't buy them, simple no?
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
This is terrible. I've ranted in the past about Loki's awful customer service, and I claimed I would never buy another game from them again. That is after having bought ten games from Loki.So I suppose their demise is justified, given how badly they've judged the Linux market and how poorly they served this customer. But it's terrible just the same.
Loki screwed up in so many ways, which shouldn't have been obvious only in hindsight. For example, they focused on far too many 3D game ports like Heavy Gear 2, Soldier of Fortune, Descent 2, etc, when the driver support wasn't integrated in by the popular linux distributors like Redhat, Mandrake, et all. This meant that average users trying to install and play their games had to go through all sorts of hoops to get the stuff running on XFree-3.3.x, which further limited their market to only the most knowedgeable of the Linux community. If they had focused on porting more strategy games like CivCTP, which had a real potential market, they might still be financially solvent.
They *still* have refused to fix their web page and still take orders which they know they can't ship. What I mean by this is that if you order a released product bundled with something that's to be released at a future date, they will hold the released product until the new title is available. I'm sure this is primarily a problem with their distributor, but they could have set up their order form to either prevent these kinds of orders, or at least inform the customer of his/her potential wait.
All this said, I'm a hypocrite: after claiming I would never buy another Loki title again, I ordered the SMAC/Tribes 2 bundle from TuxGames recently primarily because I really like SMAC. I've got it running under Windows, but I like the game enough to bring it over to the linux side of my box... I have no idea how good Tribes 2 will be. Hope I enjoy the game.
I very much want to see the linux gaming market succeed. However, I recognize that if the market is only large enough to support one porting vendor it's not a sustainable market. One economic downturn and *poof!*. It's not reasonable for Linux gamers to be begging folks to go out and buy any and every game to help support loki. The market should support Loki (or any other company for that matter) on its own. Go ahead and buy these games if they're what you want (I did). But to buy these games just to "save loki" is foolish, and a failed strategy over the long haul.
I'm encouraged by John Carmack repeatedly stating that he will provide a port of Doom 3 to Linux. He probably won't sell a boxed version, but at least Linux gamers will be able to buy the Windows version and play under Linux. This is the seed that will keep the Linux gaming movment alive until the necessary drivers migrate out to the user community. Once XFree 4.x.x is ubiquitous we'll have the software infrastructure in place to support a 3D gaming market... at that point the primary issue will be whether there are enough users and buyers to support a company, not whether the market has the requisite skills necessary to configure their OS in order to play the game.
--Maynard
I've just ordered from your company for the first time, I wish I had done so previously.
It looks like you're going to be the next company to hold the linux gaming torch; you need to find an alternative revenue stream from selling Loki games. Maybe you could work out an arrangement with id for providing support for their upcoming Doom 3 release? They release a windows CD and the binaries to play on Linux, you offer support in exchange for a fee -- either by a 900 number or some other scheme.
There are other companies producing cross platform games out there -- tribesoft and vicarious visions being the two best known at the moment. I hope you're able to find a revenue stream through while the linux gaming market recovers. It's important to note that for the first time we're seeing distributions which actually support 3D out of the box. RH7.1 does a pretty good job, I'm impressed. So the software infrastructure is now in place for install and play gaming.
Good luck to you, sir.
--Maynard
Q3A runs beautifully under RH7.1 with my Voodoo 3/2k. Some of the other Loki games, such as Myth II, have problems with running in 16bpp mode under GL (you have to update to the latest patch to support GL) with the Voodoo 1/2/3, however for the first time getting 3D support working under Linux is as simple as installing a distribution. If you've got an NVIDIA card you'll want to download the NVIDIA drivers, as the XFree4 drivers aren't anywhere near as good... but Voodoo and Radeon support out of the box is basically here.
This is *much* more important than just being able to play games... it's critical to the scientific community that requires 3D support for molecular modeling, data analysis, simulations, etc as well as the graphics rendering and modeling community. The long term consequences of out of the box 3D support in Linux for the graphics and scientific communities means far greater Linux penetration within these markets. And that's where the Linux desktop is heading -- on the desks of engineers, scientist, and artists... not business users. JMO.
--Maynard
OK, I'll bite. I don't have a windows box, and I haven't had a windows box for almost 2 years. I have a few great Linux boxes, and I like to play games. Please put 2+2 together.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Yes, the obvious arrangement would be for you to supply the LUG's under the LUG arrangement so that your higher volume gets you a big enough discount to make it worth your while. To put things in perspective, you're looking at a situation here where your main supplier has to take steps to keep itself viable - that's as much your concern as theirs.
I agree you deserve an apology for having heard about this move first in the news. I'd try to interpret that as thoughtless as opposed to malicious.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Will you people listen to yourselves? You're buying more than one copy of the same game to try and keep a company alive. And in the same breath you talk about the Linux Revolution. What gives?
I am currently posting this from Windows 2000. I use Win 2K at work because I need Windows do do my job. Sure, much of what I do is on a number of Linux servers across the country, but our main product staple is Windows based. For this reason I use Windows, it is the best tool for the job.
Having said that, I am a gamer, and I like games as do members of our LUG. Linux, like Windows is just a tool to do a job, in some instances it is the better tool. Currently for gaming, Linux is not that tool, Windows is. As you can tell however, I like Linux (and Unix's in general) and I believe in supporting it. There is a catch 22 here. Without more Linux software there will be fewer Linux users.
Do I think that Loki should be able to survive on it's own merits? Of course I do. Still, if I am given the option of buying the game for full price, or buying TWO copies for the same price, which should I pick?
You can reference my previous comment on this matter.
So, in conclusion I would like to commend you on an excellent trolling. I am just supporting something I believe in. I don't see anything wrong with that. Do you?
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Our LUG solug.org is doing this. We don't really have enough members for 10 copies (or rather we do, but not all members are gamers) So there are 5 of us who want the game, and of those 5 we were going to buy the game anyways, so it looks like we will end up with 2 copies each. I can live with that, so can they.
And it boosts sales of the linux version too.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Great point... I guess because I didn't post a link somewhere... sigh...
Jethro
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
So, who is going to organize a /. buy-in? We can get a hell of a discount on 10,000 copies!
Jethro
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Not another one...
Yeah, a lot of the games aren't exactly new, but then Loki probably can't afford to pay the licencing fees on brand new titles. (Not forgetting that porting games takes time, of course...)
Tribes 2, on the other hand, is only a few weeks old. It isn't going to be avilable at a "huge discount" for quite some time yet.
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Tribes2 isn't a bargain-bin game, it just came out about two weeks ago.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
Oh, yeah, and the people who actually use the software. And multibillion corporations who want to cut down on IT budgets. And those with experience enough in the industry to know that with proprietary products you're gonna depend on a company staying in buisness and actually supporting their products (which usually isnt exactly what happens over a 5 year period). And those who need to customize their software. Well, ok, actually open source is for everyone who isnt a buisness basing their buisness model on selling proprietary software.
>This sounds like a great idea for any Linux company, go directly to the LUGs to find a dedicated user base.
I'm sorry but this is the most obvious thing to do. They should have done this already a long time ago. Its not a great idea, its an obvious one
When is it a good thing for a company to sell their product at a deep discount. Including pretty recent product, Tribes 2.
This isn't to convert the masses as you have to be part of the user group already.
Sorry, but as a business, this move doesn't look good for Loki.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
>My buddy tells me that I can get it for half price, I just have to let him install linux for me
You don't have money for a full priced game yet you have an extra hard drive? (and yes you would need that to fit all the required Linux/XWindows/Tribes2 stuff on)
>Everybody wins.
Not Loki. There is only one company to buy Linux games from. What does that say when they have to cut prices 50%?
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Communism and capitalism don't mix (hence the failure of a capitalist firm in the world of Linux)
Not this crap again!!
Linux is successful because of its openness via the GPL. This is possible under any system of government that permits copyright protection. (required for the GPL to work)
How exactly then is linux communist?
I am sick of this pathetic non-sensical connection between people choosing to release something with a liberal license and communism. Change the fucking record or else say something new to qualify this nonsense.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
I have seen that link made also, but I don't see it. A manifesto is simply a declaration of principles. I fail to see how someone who declares their principles now is somehow comminust simply because they use the same english word that Marx used when he declared his.
And "quite a few similarities" doesn't convince me either. What similarities?
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
I was actually wondering about how we could encourage more Linux gaming :) I'm with the very teeny Saskatoon Linux Users' Group; we're not exactly rich. There's been talk of an installfest recently, and having games to give out (or sell for small amounts) would really help out.
--
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Now I can go to an installfest run by a lug, get all my Linux stuff set up with working sound and 3D, and then get the games cheap! Sweeeet.
Now if I could only find a Linux distro with 3D that works well enough to play games on Nvidia cards, right out of the box. Anyone know if Mandrake 8 is capable?
Actually, you have Communism all wrong. Communism, as defined by Marx, describes a socienty in which NO ONE, including a central government, owns anything. In a true communist socienty there would be no central government at all. The society you are describing is closer to Stalinism, a bastardization of Communism.
Redhat's breaking even and I can see them being profitable. IBM likes Linux because it makes them money through hardware sales and services. VA Linux wants to be the Dell of the Linux world but I think the only Dell of the Linux world is going to be Dell.
Most of the Linux users I know wouldn't have any problem spending money on entertainment, which is what games are. Loki's problem is that most of us don't mind booting to Windows to play games (Not me though, I've got no MS products on my hard drives at home.) Or firing up the Playstation 2. Loki may not be able to compete in the long run, but I think they'll be able to bring in enough money to pay the bills for the foreseeable future.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I have the same setup, but for my home system, I would still love to see linux supported as a gaming platform. If Loki succeeds, there goes the only compelling reason to keep a win9x box around at home.
Which means a substantial savings in time and money.
It's funny this came up when it did, I was just thinking last night how this area needs a LUG. I'd be interested in any advice, I'm sure some people with experience organising a LUG will read this sometime...
"That old saw about the early bird just goes to show that the worm should have stayed in bed."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
The LUG program is intended to support the efforts of non-profit groups who are evangelizing Linux. Our program allows LUGs to purchase Loki products at a discount for promotional purposes (e.g. give aways and contest prizes) and to generate financial support for their efforts via resale to their members.
There are strict qualification guidelines--you actually have to be a LUG, LUGs cannot sell or distribute products to anyone except their own members, and sales and give aways of products must be done at LUG meetings and events.
Tuxgames.com is an online webstore which sells Linux products to end users. They buy the product at a discount and sell at a profit. The more they buy, the bigger the discount. There are a number of such sites in countries all over the world. A list of stores (both online and brick and mortar) that resell Loki's products can be found at http://www.lokigames.com/orders/resellers.php3. We value our resellers and have worked hard to build relationships with them. We use Tuxgames, for example, to offer product discounts to our beta testers and, when we had problems with our own webstore recently, we emailed customers and suggested they use the Tuxgames site instead to avoid delays.
Loki is proud of its record supporting the community of users and developers involved with open source software. We believe that our game products play an important role increasing the appeal of Linux to new users, and are excited about reaching new users by sponsoring LUGs with this new program.
Kayt Sorhaindo
Queen Bee
Loki Software, Inc.
What's wrong with using the right OS for the job?
--
If their profit margins are halved, but twice as many people buy, you would be right. However, they probably have to pay $5-10 in packaging and printing per copy, so if you halve the sticker price, you more than halve their profits. So more than twice as many would have to buy.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Note that I'm not taking into account the limited time special prices you can get from local stores from week to week. The price for Tribes 2 on ebgames.com is currently $45. The price for Tribes2 Linux is $50, so you can get it for $25 or less with this LUG deal.
Ok, Linux supporters...time to put up or shut up. If you truly want to help, lay out the money now.
FWIW, I put down over $100 in games from TuxGames to get my Tribes2, SMAC, and other Linux games earlier this week. Reviews forthcoming here.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
Yep, first I heard about this was from the link at linuxgames.com. I was, to say the least, startled.
First thing I did was fire off an email to Loki, to try and find out what was going on. Im sure they will reply, and Im sure we will all work out a deal or arrangement, but until them I am in the dark. Its quite worrying seeing my whole business hanging on what Loki will reply with, and knowing that over there in CA they havent started business yet so I have to sit here twiddling my thumbs and waiting to see if Im still in business or not. I think that that accounts for the harsh tone of my first post. Stress!
No, we wont ever stop selling the Loki games even if we have to sell higher priced than Loki does. Obviously we wouldnt get may sales but we would still carry them.
We only refused to carry one game, and that was because the supplier (spiderweb software)demanded the email address of every purchaser...We refused to divulge private customer information to them, and they gave us an ultimatum... We chose to not do business with them.
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
Loki has of yet not responded to my demand for an explaination, but I think this is NOT the way to win loyalty in resellers. If they charge LUGs less money than they charge resellers, the resellers may as well just pack up shop and go home.
Suffice to say, we arent best pleased at this news. All well and good to give discounts to LUGs, but please, lower than the resellers?? Thats a great way to kill your reseller channel stone dead! </rant-mode>
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
I bought Tribes 2 for Windows already...
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
This sounds like a great idea for any Linux company, go directly to the LUGs to find a dedicated user base.
Of course, now MS can circulate a memo saying that Loki is using their astroturf technique to generate sales.
Of course, so are M$, Oracle, Sun, etc.
> ...based on communist principles of shared ownership...
Perhaps you're not clear on the notion of licensing as it applies to Linux. You certainly are not clear on ownership as it relates to Communism. There is no meaningful comparison between a license that allows limited use of software under strict licensing controls (such as those imposed by the GPL), and a system of centralized government decision-making and capital ownership (as Communism is implemented).
You may well be correct that there will be few, if any profitable companies based soley on open source software, but it has nothing to do with communism.
-------------------------
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A person of moderate zeal
The problem with porting Windows code to Linux, espically games, is that the code wasn't designed with cross platform compatiblity in mind. So you get things like Railroad Tycoon II not able to do multiplayer with Windows. (Works fine with Mac as they ported the Mac version, not the Windows version.)
Quake 3 is thankfully a different kettle of fish and a slightly better plan. It's at least designed to be cross platform. Until Loki came along, id was fine with the one box mutiple platforms. id never officially supported their games on linux though. (You couldn't call tech support and expect help with getting things working on Linux.) With Quake3, Loki took that job and put out a special Linux edition. The special Linux edition isn't all that special. You get a tin box, and the cd has the linux biniaries instead of the windows biniaries. The CD still works on any platform once you download the point release. I got the Linux version, but played under windows for some time before I got 3D working under Linux.
BioWare has the right idea with Neverwinter Nights. Design the game for cross platform from the ground up. With that design, there is minimal effort in getting the game running on four platforms. Should keep the patch levels unified across platforms as well. The ability to move between platforms will be nice. I'm sure BioWare will include support for EAX, and I've found that those audio extentions add something special to the game, and are just darn cool. I don't expect they work on Linux anytime soon however, so maybe I'll want to boot into windows from time to time.
Another hurdle with the port the windows code that recently came to light is voice communication. From what I know (and I could be wrong) Tribes 2 has intigrated voice communication, but the Windows version and Linux version are incompatible. (Should be fixed in a later patch.) Big bummer. I use Roger-Wilco all the time with Counter-Strike. Linux needs something similar that is compatible.
Sometimes it's the little things that make or break a title/company/etc. Loki definitly has the big things taken care of, but some of those small details get overlooked all too often...
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.