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PDAs, PDAs
isaac writes: "The cat is out of the bag! Palmstation has photos of the new PalmOS pda from Handera (formerly TRG of TRGPro fame). Features include a 320x240 screen with "soft" grafitti area, CompactFlash *and* SD slots, and Voice Recording. No word yet on built-in RAM or other capabilities - an official launch at Handera's website is rumored for Monday. The alleged name of this device is the "HandEra 330". Wish they'd do something about the name." There's also a combination PDA/phone that looks interesting.
You can back a PDA up.
Really, there are many reasons, but that one stands head and shoulders above the rest.
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Xenu loves you!
The Qualcomm PDQ has that problem, I expect a lot of people use the little headsets. The Visor Phone (I forget the real name) requires (I think) use of a headset.
Regrettably the headsets are either too bulky to carry (the ones with a mic boom), or don't sound that great (ones like Jabrea's with the in-ear mic). Both kinds are uncomfortable to me, and both take time to put on. They also seem to do worse in a noisy environment (a convertible with the top down).
Also, I would be very reluctant to loan (or borrow!) a phone where the head set was the only thing that worked.
It has a compact flash slot. A 32M (Lexar) Compact Flash is under $100 from my local computer store. Let's see 15 years ago, in 1986... I owned a 512K 8Mhz 68000 Atari ST. During 86 I saved up for a whole summer, and finally my dad gave me an extra $200 and I bought a $650 20MEG hard drive (it was a SCSI drive with a SCSI to ATSI converter).
So I would say they aren't too far off on mass storage. Of corse I think the more expensive Macs of the era came with hard disks, same with the PCs. Programs were still pretty small, most fit one one or at least a few floppy disks.
Displays are still a bit behind though.
That's pretty cool. My Samsung SCH 3500 has a record feature as well, but I never tryed it (except for memos which it does when you are not on a call).
I do recall the instructions saying it may be illegal to use it in some states though (some states require both parties in a phone conservation to agree to recording, other require only one).
As always, I'm not a lawyer, so don't rely on me for legal advice.
If the CPU can't handle it, put in a decoder chip for MP3. Shouldn't be too expensive.
If I could buy a CF MP3 decoder for the Handera, I'd buy it in a flash.
Sadly, CompactFlash seems to be relegated to just storage.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
licensing fees for one and multi-tasking for another. Granted your question could also be directed right at Microsoft and WinCE. I mean pushing an elephant into a VW and still expect to have some form of enjoyable ride is just dumb. Microsoft has its monopoly to protect though. Linux scales far better then WinCE and there are alot of developers out there.
I hope Sharp does a nice job with their PDA.
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Good points and links. I think they, Handera, are making a good move. The Palm III is the largest market segment out there but the Visor and Palm V series are slowly growing. Think of all the business's with Palm III's and peripherals not having to give that up now that Palm has discontinued the III series and Handera exists. It's still flash upgradable too!
All and all this is a good move for everyone.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
then YOU should get a pager device ( blackberry? ). I think the poster was looking for something he didn't have to hold to his face to see. I too think the smaller screen on the M series is annoying.
Everyone has their needs and wants and I can tell you that a credit card sized display isn't something I want to put my shopping lists, calendar info and drawing apps on. The Palm III series of display size is just right IMHO. A large portion of the market seems to think the same way but that doesn't mean EVERYTHING should be that size. Competition is always good for consumers.
IMHO
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Come on now, WinCE platform shooting up? The iPaq is the only WinCE machine selling well and there are way too many dead bodies in "the road behind" of WinCE developers and manufacturers to think a slight uptick is a full blown come-from-behind win. People buy PDA's for various reasons and most seem to want something simple, fast, instantly on, reliable, small, and reasonable priced. Palm devices in the $150-$300 range fit that need. There's a market for fat devices like WinCE products and higher end Palm devices for the exec's but most go for the M100, Visor, M105/IIIx products.
Putting expansion capabilities into the device is far better then bolting it all in a product an expecting everyone to take it/pay for it. Therefore WinCE devices will stay in the fringes because Microsoft knows only how to bloat products with feature after feature. They have a eating disorder and must consume everything. IMO. Palm licensies haven't been that dumb yet and this new device just adds a ton of expandability with major backwards compatability with existing hardware and software.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Those are fringe devices for those people with Palm apps who want some pizzaz. These won't overtake the market but will make some good profits for the maker. Some might even buy these as first-time buyers but not many IMO.
They are another frill managers can show off but still be compatible with the worker-bee's applications. With PalmOS having 80/90 percent marketshare coming into a Palm-based environment with a WinCE device would be only for the isolationists out there. IMHO
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Check out Magcom, a norwegian company that makes a pda/phone thingy.
My poor bank account. No job and a new TRGpro. Well, maybe the lack of colour (I have a PalmPix) will help me put off this upgrade...
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I have done this on two seperate PDA's. My old Palm V with an Omnisky CDPD modem (19.2k, supported in most digital cell areas), and my Compaq iPaq Handheld with a PCMCIA CDPD modem. One of the reasons I moved to the iPaq was it's ability to use PCMCIA cards, so my laptop could also have CDPD without 2 monthly charges or a cable hack to the Novatel model Omnisky used on the Palm V.
And for ultimate server control, the iPaq now can interface with the Remote Insight Lights Out boards Compaq sells as options for their servers. So, from the iPaq you can telnet into your UNIX box, and if for some reason that fails, connect to the RIBLOE and see whats wrong (access to hardware failure logs, ability to power cycle the machine, etc...)
Doesn't help matters that Palm let itself be pressured into announcing its new lines prematurely, and now has to drop prices on its current Palms to try to lure people into buying them now instead of waiting for the new ones to come out.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Honestly, I tried Graffiti for 6 months and found it usable but slow and inaccurate. I used to play with Giraffe to try and analyse its topology algorithms - they're surprisingly shaky.
The OS often feels like a throwback to very old days, but I could live with that if they were cheaper and the handwriting recognition better. For what they do, they're too dear - and that recognition system is just too poor.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
The toy factor is certainly there, but IME a voice note taker is very useful and not a toy.
Honestly, I can't see the point of a laptop for letters and spreadsheets. Most of the time neither are massive, and I can verify that a Psion does both rather well. I use laptops regularly for work and they're irritating. Take a couple of minutes to boot, take significant time to shut down. They're bulky, they're heavy and they only run for a few hours away from the mains.
The laptops do a nice job of being a simple database and web server, or of showing PowerPoint presentations. Beyond that, I can't think of regularly used applications which (IMO&E) can be performed just as well on my Psion. Which runs for a couple of weeks per set of batteries (or 15 continuous hours), powers up and down instantly and still has a keyboard I can touchtype on. A little slower but not much. It's quite fast enough for normal applications, the software can automatically convert between its formats and the PC formats. It honestly clears the majority of the need for a laptop for me.
The only problem I see is the limited market share and so relatively small software and peripheral support. It's adequate now, I just worry about the future. Hence a fairly strong desire to explain to others just how fantastic they are - the more people who use these wonderful things, the more chance they have of growth. No, I don't have shares in Psion, Symbian or any similar companies. Oh, and a fairly strong feeling that PalmOS devices are far oversold in their abilities and that people can do better. I don't like seeing people (IMO) waste their money.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Remember I had one for, erm, 8 months or so, and used it heavily. I'm not sure what you think you can do which I didn't try, in all honesty. I had QED on mine and used it to write some pretty big documents, for example. It was used for (OK, pretty basic) database work at one point, too. What, exactly, do people assume we all do with Palms that I hadn't discovered or seen in others? I've seen people synching with various high-end PIM apps, but I never had the need for that sort of thing so it wasn't really relevant. Anyway, who actually needs much more than Outlook or similar?
I'll admit I never tried one of those bitmap note takers, never saw the point. Still slow enough, but not as fast as a voice recorder or similar.
I'm happy that you find it works well for you - I found, for example, the complete lack of proper filesystem access irritating. Call me a geek if you wish, but I like being able to see and play with the guts. I can with my Psion (and have on occasions), I couldn't with a Palm.
I've seen those keyboards (again, never tried one - by the time a keyboard was clearly needed, so was a larger screen) but I honestly can't see me ever being able to use them on anything other than a very solid footing. Mechanically, I can't see how it can be balanced by itself if the screen is at a usable angle. But with my Psion I can (and have) typed comfortably on my knees, or (generally not when I can avoid it) with one hand while holding the machine with the other. Basic physics would seem to preclude either option with a Palm and keyboard rig.
There _are_ cheap m105s and so on, but the Vx and similar cost pretty much the same as a Revo (2x the memory, 3x the screen resolution) and 75% of the cost of a 5mx (2x the memory, 6x the screen resolution). You get more built-in software on the Psions, you get the voice recorder - and trust me, it's useful. They're a little larger and heavier - but I can tell you from experience that it makes little or no difference. They're all small enough. Which reminds me - most serious Palm users seem to have keyboards. So your weight and size have bumped up, while you've added most of the cost difference between a Vx and a 5mx!
If most users had IIIs and m100 / m105s I might be able to believe that they were going for the lower cost. Thinking of Palm owners I know, though, three out of four are Vs!
The more I look at it, the more sensible a choice the Psion becomes. Yet people continue to buy PalmOS machines. Why remains a mystery to me.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Yep, you can definitely do that sort of thing.
I was actually quite tempted a while back by a runout Jornada 820 and similar boxes. Only £3-400 but gave you either 640x480 or 800x600 screen, depending on the machine. A decent keyboard (yes, better than my Psion) and a full office suite - while weighing almost nothing, booting instantly and running all day on the batteries. I could take one of them off and work all day in a park, or on a mountaintop, or pretty much anywhere in almost equal comfort to a normal laptop.
Real pity you can't get them any more.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
I have pretty poor handwriting and can type faster, anyway. I can type up notes, live, in the meeting and distribute them almost instantly and readably. Also, I've written up various documents on this. Sure, I could have printed and annotated, but that's clunky and slow.
This thing also has a map, several games, a powerful enough spreadsheet (which actually does get used pretty often) and will be on the web and getting my e-mail when I'm away shortly.
It's cool.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
QED, for me, worked beautifully as an _editor_ - I was editing and updating 40k ballpark text documents on a regular basis. I found that, within the limits of the device, it was absolutely stunning what it could do. The problem was that I was getting too many graffiti errors (no matter how much I practiced - I remain convinced their algorithms aren't as good as they should be) and found that trying to work on that tiny little screen was a serious nuisance. Colleagues got fed up with catching mixed Gs and Qs which Graffiti produced and I couldn't see on that screen... Seeing something not much larger but with a bigger screen and a keyboard, I jumped.
Can't find a solid description of SmartDoc but WordSmith looks serious overkill for what I was doing.
I'm quite sure the DB access is there and works very nicely - I've seen enough about it, I've seen PIMs synched with it often enough. I'd personally find the small possible form size irritating very quickly, having tried smaller databases on the Palm. It worked nicely for small lists and indexes, must more than that and it just got limited.
Maybe I could have fiddled with DB flags - but that's not provided in the OS as standard from what I could see. With the Psion it's extremely easy as it frankly just looks like a normal PC with an adapted UI.
Glad to hear you can use your keyboard on your lap - like I said, that was based on assumption from appearance and physics. You do seem to suggest that the newer, smaller ones don't work that way so well...
I'd strongly dispute your suggestion that the Revo and V aren't in competition. Yes, the V is smaller - but I'd maintain that the Revo (probably the 5mx too) is already small enough and neither is too small, so it's not actually an issue. Most seem to buy them as opposed to a III / m10x / Visor for their percieved style benefit.
Yes, you _can_ travel without the keyboard, but that implies you think through exactly what you're planning to do (with some accuracy) and make the decision. I just pick mine up and go - plus it's only one box so rather easier to carry and I'd suggest that the Palm and Go!Type might actually be larger and more awkward... Plus, if you want to use it you have to get both out and connect them up. I just open the lid.
Ultimately, it's horses for courses. You like yours, I like mine. I feel pretty strongly that yours isn't any good, you feel equally strongly that it's entirley adequate. Heck, this basic situation is mirrored the world over in so many different arenas.
I would hope that I've put together a good case for a Psion being a substantial improvement over a PalmOS machine, ditto you in reverse I expect. Ultimately, we've made our decisions, and it's up to others to read our arguments and decide accordingly.
But I'd fairly strongly dispute the suggestion of prejudice - I started on a Palm III, I tried to make it fit my needs as it would have saved me money if it could have done. It's also a far more mainstream choice, which generally seems a Good Thing. After some time evaluating it, I had to come to the view that it was oversold, overhyped and upderpowered, and that I needed a larger screen and a keyboard. I'd read the reviews, I'd seen the articles, I'd seen this sort of discussion. In abstract it seemed a fantastic idea - but when I used it, it all fell apart. Now, I tend to look on and think of the Emperor and his new clothes.
Oh, an aside - they're not that well built. Some individual specified glass in the screen, mine was ultimately retired when a short fall out of a pocket when bending over cracked the glass and so killed the digitiser. This sort of thing is going to happen with one of these, so why not use (lighter, too) transparent acrylic? Scratching isn't a worry as they already put a screen protector over the glass...
Honestly, though, my usability problems aren't sour grapes over this. I'd already made my mind up to sell and was looking for a Psion when this happened.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Sadly, as with so many of these things, I have to think the Vx is an idea which looks better in the shop than reality.
;-) you have every right to your opinion, as do all others.
When I was first looking, size was part of what pushed me to a Palm (I was also looking at Philips Ninos, FWIW). Having tried both, it honestly doesn't make any odds. As with so many things, the problem is more perception than reality. But hey, that's life.
Honestly, I have no problem accepting that people could find a Palm a good match for their desired functionality. I wonder how they justify its cost personally, but hey, I acknowledge the toy factor is a component. It's a lot of what made me buy my first. My suspicion remains that there's a lot of Palm users who are unconsciously living with limitations and they might well be better served by a keyboarded machine such as a Psion. The zen of Palm sometimes seems a little oversold.
If it feels good to you and others, you have every right to that perception. If you need software which is only on the Palm (of which there is plenty) then I agree entirely with the good sense of sticking with a platform. Heck, I wouldn't be posting this from Windows if I had the software elsewhere.
If they don't apply, though, I can honestly say I can't understand a preference among someone who'd actually seriously used both. I'm not going to fight because there's no point, it's just that my experience is that the benefit I derived from a Psion over a Palm is simply massive and, unless you're reliant on something which ties you to a Palm or cost ties you to an m10x (which seems to be a pretty unusual situation), I can't see how the pendulum could concievably swing back.
But hey, if that's my problem, so be it. However strange I might find it
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
I have a Psion 5 with a built-in voice recorder, and it's VERY useful. Means I can make a REALLY quick note. Press one button until it beeps, then hold it while you talk. Boom! You have a note recorded. I can do that while I'm walking along, while I'm driving, pretty much any time I want. Far easier than opening it up and making a note.
Easier than making a note on a Palm, too. Used to have one, no way could I make a note while walking via graffiti, even after I've opened the cover, fished out the pen, tapped on the button, asked for a new document and started writing in slow, inaccurate Graffiti. While driving? Forget it.
These things are really, really useful. Might not fit in with the way _you_ use yours, but it fits in really nicely with mine.
Oh, BTW, you really bought that $2-300 device just to track appointments? Wow. Mine regularly gets used for meeting notes. I've written proper, formatted and spellchecked documents on it in comfort, too. On trains, in restaurants, in parks, absolutely anywhere. I've played games while waiting for things, I've knocked up spreadsheets. I've just got a new phone and so, when I've set up a few bits, it'll be surfing the web periodically and checking e-mail. Yes, I could do both on a Palm, but this is the _proper_ web (not clipped or synced) and I've got a keyboard I'm prepared to write normal length e-mails on. Which isn't a clip-on extra.
I honestly can't see why people are prepared to pay that much for that little functionality. I saw how limited it was and bought something I could do real work on, not just use as a fancy diary and calculator.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
I can't imagine that this would look good on many applications, especially games and graphical programs. You would get pixel doubling every other pixel, making a horrible jagged appearance.
Hopefully the font is scaled up by 1.5x in a sensible manner, so it doesn't appear jagged.
I guess we will find out on Monday, when the device is officially announced. Nice to see the Palm series finally getting some features that people have been crying out for. No more stupid 160x160 screen - I won a Palm IIIc, and although it is nice enough, each pixel is huge, making for a very blocky display (about 60dpi). This new Palm will increase the resolution to about 90dpi, which is a far more acceptable resolution for working on.
What gets me is the state of games on the Palm Pilot. You have a fast processor (for handheld games at least, a Gameboy is only 8MHz max (ignoring GBA here), and Palms range from 16MHz to 33MHz. The screen ain't exactly huge and memory hungry either, so why are most games poor equivalents of 1980's naffness? Isn't there a decent API available on the Palm for games programming, featuring direct access to screen memory instead of via the Palm OS APIs? I ain't expecting Quake, but Wolfenstein should be possible...
There was a time when people went to school and learned how to make good looking designs which stirred strong positive emotions. The Palm V was one. The IPAQ was another. The m50x (although evolutionary) is also in this club.
The HandEra device is certainly an engineering marvel. I cannot argue with good technology. But, the thing has no "lines". When you look at it, your eyes dart all over the place. It's just too busy... the design doesn't flow. :(
If I recall, there are some WinCE "palmtops" that will do powerpoint presentations at 640x480 via a VGA port dongle thingy...
Ya know, that's a use that I hadn't thought of! Thanks, I'll have to keep that in mind...
Yes, Visors have a different port; keyboards have to be made for Visor or Palm. The Visor software is also able to deal with USB (unlike any Palm I think), but I don't know if that affects the pinout needs.
[
Read on either PDABuzz, or a link from their discussion thread that there will be two options for dealing with "legacy" apps: 1) Scaling - zoom them by a factor of 1.5 to fit the square area above the soft Grafitti area. 2) Border - run at 160x160 centered on the screen with borders. Apparently 90%+ of these apps look and work fine in scaling mode. Robbie
Beowulf Cluster
Linux port
Quake port
Blue LED hack
17" Monitor hack
Web Server
Game Boy Emulator
Way to wire yourself
Ethernet hack
Ok, well, that's stopped people from having to make a few jokes. Hopefully that'll keep the posts down...
Details here on Nintendo's official GameCube accessories page, and IGNcube has a more in-depth look here.
Hope this is of some (somewhat offtopic) interest...
I'm glad HandEra isn't making this like Palm's new m500 series. This device fits some of my personal wants: Shaped like a III-series (from the photos) and grayscale screen. I really dislike the small size of the V's and the m's, so it's good to see something of a sturdier size that's more friendly to my hands.
And then there's the screen size, the expansion slots... Whoops, I'm drooling.
-J
Karma: T-rexcellent.
You know, it looks from the pictures like it's the same size as the III-series Palms. In that case, it might work with your keyboard. I know that would make it comptaible with my III-series keyboard... does your Visor have a different serial connector?
-J
Karma: T-rexcellent.
it's in my head
What difficult stand is Symbian in? The Nokia 9210 is ER6, and has a keyboard.
it's in my head
Also, a quick scan of SanDisk's web site gives this page which reassures me that the secure features have:
Cryptographic security for copyrighted data based on proven security concepts from DVD audio
Whew, I'm reassured!
Give me one example when a paper-equivalent to PDAs is not better than any given PDA.
I used to use a "paper PDA". Every time someone's contact details changed, I had to re-write their entry. The address book quickly became a nasty mess.
My paper PDA didn't have an alarm.
My paper PDA doesn't include a phone that is synced to my address book. So on my paper PDA I can't tap on a person's name to call them and speak to them.
Every year I had to copy the annual reminders from my old paper PDA into the new one (mainly family birthdays I should remember). Man, I hated that New Year ritual.
Oh, if you find an example, tell me how much you are willing to pay for that feature.
I paid around$500 for these features, and I am very happy with that, thank you.
Sailing over the event horizon
The problem with a combination phone and PDA is that half the time when I want to write something down, someone's telling it to me over the phone. I don't want to have to take someone's address and phone number down by pulling the phone away from my ear every few numbers...
If you don't want my koalas, baby, don't shake my eucalyptus tree.
This is likely a plus, because you still have to coded semi-efficiently, instead of letting things bloat on your mass storage.
I wonder how hard this is for the MS crew.
:-)
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Here's one option for a much-less-than-$800 CE PDA with a keyboard:
Cassiopeia A21S
There are a number of others from various manufacturers. Just search the Web, eBay or online stores for "Handheld PC" and "Handheld PC Pro" or "HPC" and "HPC Pro" instead of "PocketPC".
The form factor of a CE device determines the class of device it is. Now I'm not a Microsoft rep, so don't quote me on this, but I believe that PocketPC and PalmPC CE devices are pen-based and have a 320x240 display, Handheld PC (HPC) devices are pen or pen/keyboard and have a 480x240 display and Handheld PC Pro (HPC Pro) devices are 640x480 and always have a keyboard, like a mini laptop.
Good luck in your search.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Are there any video cameras that use flash yet? A 1GB drive should be plenty of space for a full length movie, not to mention the very short pieces of film I record when mtnbiking.
I just bought my first digital camera, upgraded to a 32 MB flash card, and am loving life! The usb flash reader I bought works beautifully with linux (it's just a SCSI device to the OS) Nice stuff.
http://www.pdamd.com/vertical/features/handera.xml
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20010420/tc/a_palm _from_the_plains_1.html
http://www.maximumpc.com/content/2001/04/20/12868
It has 8MB of memory, can use both CF and SD slots simultaneously, it has 2MB of flash ram, runs palmos 3.5 (custom version of course) with an update for 4.0 in the works, takes four AAA batteries (more power) but they are interexchangeable with a recharcheagble battery, offers serial (i.e. slow !) connectivity, compatibility with TRGPro and palm III accessories, landscape mode, 33MHz dragonball processor and will cost $350 (you can preorder it at the pdamd link above). :(
Seems like a very good pda... I've grown kinda attached to my visor deluxe with my keyboard and modules... I can't replace them all
.. how long it will take for somebody to mention tux, IBM and the '"soft" grafitti' option all in one sentence..