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A Home For The Technologically Inept
Having to had provide tech support to many people over the years (One of my favorites: But how do I double-click the mouse?), I found the Assisted Computer Facility living place to be a wonderful idea. Just think - an environment where people could /safetly/ learn about the difference between a drink coaster and the CD-ROM drive.
How about establishing a home for geeks where they can learn basic things like How to be appreciative of others.. How to be polite.. How to be gracious.. How to be humble.. How to be fair-minded.. How to be kind.. How to be magnanimous.. How to be sensitive.. How to be helpful.. How to be sympathetic.. How to be caring..
- A.P.
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Forget Napster. Why not really break the law?
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Yes, my boys both learned how to use at mouse at 18 months. Kids 5 years old can learn anything. The premise of _Ender's Game_ wasn't too farfetched.
t ml
For another point of view, here is a quote from William Mossberg's column. Note that I don't personally agree with everything Mossberg writes, but his point of view is an important one to consider:
http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/mailbox-20010412.h
"I have long felt that what we need isn't for users to become "computer literate" but for the techie class, especially those who design and maintain computers, to become "human literate." One reason personal computers are of such poor quality is that too many of their designers believe that, when their customers can't use PCs properly, the fault lies with the customers, not with the machines -- or with themselves."
sPh
"I could not belive the questions I had.
"How do I do a right button click" "
I've done my share of tech support, and received my share of inane questions. But double-clicking a mouse (or using a mouse, for that matter) is by no means an intuitive operation. Like riding a bicycle, once you get it, you get it, but unless someone shows you the odds of figuring it out yourself are about nil.
There is a saying that only one man ever taught himself to fly a helicopter (Igor Sikorski), and that everyone else learned from someone who learned from him. Along those lines, Apple included with the IIgs a tutorial that booted itself up and taught you to use the mouse assuming no prior knowledge. A work of art IMHO; I wish they had transferred it to other platforms.
sPh
I want to rant about how Apple designs power switches. I love Macs, but admit that Apple has pulled more than its share of stupids over the years. I can't understand why Apple doesn't see the irony in being the company that pushes the envelope of human interface design, yet they can't come up with a single, clean, consistent, intuitive way to TURN THE DAMN COMPUTER ON AND OFF.
Some of their "winners" over the years:
- You can't turn off most recent Apple monitors without also turning off the Mac it's hooked to.
- The Color Classic had NO power button at all.
- Some Macs have "soft power" and can turn themselves off; others say "It is now safe to turn off your Macintosh." There is no rhyme or reason to which Macs do it which way.
- Some Macs that say "it is now safe to turn off your Mac" have fiddly tiny power switches on the back that ROTATE. Some with soft power have big, easily accessible rocker switches.
And the all-time worst Mac power switch:
- The 610/6100 series cases have a power button about half an inch below the floppy drive. PC users instinctively push it to eject disks. Sadder still was that Apple made TWO PC-compatible Macs with this case style - so even if your brain switches easily from "Mac mode" where you drag disks to the trash to eject them and "PC mode" where you hit a button, you'll STILL hit the power button by mistake.
If computer companies - Apple and everyone else - would just agree to dispense with the symbols, tricky stuff, and I and O, and settle on a big rocker switch on the front that says "on" and "off", we'd be a lot better off. Obviously I have no problem making the master switch "lockable" by key, and I have no problem with making it a soft-switch, so when you press "off" the computer does a soft shutdown. But damn, for companies that pride themselves on easy-to-use computers, "I can't figure out how to turn the damn thing on" is a surprisingly common complaint.
Note that I'm not addressing the question of whether we WANT people too dumb to figure out the power switch to actually use the computer. I'm talking about purity of design: if you intend the computer to be easy for a CEO to use, the power switch should not be the bottleneck. Either design the machine to be easy to turn on, or design it so only a trained technician can turn it on, either way be honest about your design goals.
~ radiographite: art by john shepard
Oh certainly. The mouse is not an intuitive device in the least. (Star Trek IV even made that point) However, it is at least easy to get used to once you know the basic idea.
;) can be found here: http://www.bootstrap.org/history/photos/img0001.jp g
Incidentally, the mouse tails _did_ originally point towards the user. It was probably inconvenient or something b/c a few years later the modern position of the tail at the front had been pretty much established. A picture of the original mouse (1 button no less
And man, you don't want to know about some of the other alternatives devised for pointing on the screen.... Be grateful that they never got out of the lab.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Umm, the CDs are the coasters. The CD-ROM drive is the drink holder. Two completely different tech support issues.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
Not to be too cynical, but this could just as well be a Bad Thing(tm).
If we are to de-layer society a little, it is because of the technically inept that I have a job. And all of you that work with technology. If everybody knew how to use nmh/vi/cal (in that order) there wouldn't be a need for Outlook, in which case lots of Responce Center technicians would be out of work. This of course, would apply to several sectors.
Somebody made a complaint that users are a bit too stupid. Well, yes they are. But remove that stupidity, or just simply raise the bar a little and all of the sudden we would have a myriad of people fairely knowledgeble and a technical elite. This isn't good either, because of market saturation. We need those dummies! Think about that next time you help somebody locate a file in a DOS shell.
"Knowledge is always good - in moderation." - von Stauffen
Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
No, no. ACF stands for "Assisted Computing Facility," not "AOL.Com Flamer."
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
My old roommate, Dan, went to get a programming certificate at the local college. All students (whether in computers or not) have to take an "Intro to Desktop Systems," AKA, intro to Windows.
In the first class, the intructor asked everyone to double-click on some icon to load up the tutorial program.
The girl beside Dan clicked BOTH mouse buttons once, simultaneously. That's a "double-click," right?
As for the previous comment about whether or not double-clicking is some evil Mac invention or not, it makes perfect friggin' sense: once to select, twice to activate.
OTOH, if you're a complete newbie, then NOTHING is intuitive. These really is no such thing. It has to be learned from somewhere.
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
it means you aren't trying hard enough.
When I started out in this business just over 20 years ago, you could walk into any technology organization and get up to speed in no time. If you understood a few basic principles, had a little horse sense (or maybe horse shit) and the ability to use man and info, that was all you needed.
It isn't the same anymore.
Take my recent attempts to get my feet wet with XML. I'm prety experienced, and I can sort of see the value of XML especially when combined with technologies like XSL and Java servlets.
So I started in to gin up a few examples. OK, this sort of feels manageable. I can draw to some degree on my past experiences -- grammars, productions, parsers -- it's familiar territory. But I start running into a few problems. Exactly what is the difference between XSL and XSLT? How do I get those "fo" namespace tags to work? No problem, I'll just go the w3c web site and skim through the specs, right? Wrong. You can't just skim through the specs. What you need to know is dispersed through a number of related and tedious documents that you have to read in detail: XSL, XPATH, XML, DOM etc. etc. If you want to function in this environment, you must drink the cool aid.
This is not a critique of XML or W3C; for me, this experience has become all too common over the years. In part, I'm older and less clever than I used to be. I'm also a responsible adult who cannot disappear for a few weeks to immerse myself in a technology unless I have a really immediate need for it.
Apart from my personal shortcomings, I think the nature of competence has changed. There are just so many different people churning out so many different technologies, each with its own idiosynracies and conventions. You have to settle for real expertise a few areas and at best a rough understanding of what most of the popular technologies are good for. Unless you stick to what you know, eventually you're going to be reduced to the cargo-cult method of aping working examples to get by.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
She called me over for help when the mouse had reached the edge of the mouse pad. I said, "Pick it up and move it over" so she picked up the mouse pad in her other hand and started moving them together.
Incidentally, this was on a machine running Linux, proving wrong anyone who says Linux isn't ready for the unwashed masses.
Agree with the above entirely. But what amazes me more (and on a regular basis) is how working in an academic department with people who are supposedly at the height of the intellectual ladder expect electricity to reach their equipment THROUGH THE AIR!!!
These are the people who are teaching the managers and directors of the country's largest companies, but don't yet grasp the concept of POWER and ON.
<rant mode off>
My other favorites are;
- "my disk won't come out of the floppy drive" because it's already out
- "my e-mail won't go to my friend" "do you know their e-mail address?" "their what?"
- "my floppy drive is broken, it's really stiff inserting a disk" - walk across building to see user inserting disk upside-down, but pushing real hard anyway
- "my computer can't see my CDROM" "are you sure you've put the CDROM in the computer?" "yes of course I am. I can see it right here sitting on this tray thingy"
- "my mouse has run out of space on the mouse mat and my hand keeps banging against the filing cabinet" "have you tried picking up the mouse?" user picks up mouse and puts down again in same place.
All above true, but I've only been in tech support for three years - the next thirty are going to be a hoot!
insignificant sig
See The Chronicles of George. Not everyone who answers the phone at the tech desk is the technology wunderkind everybody here seems to be :-)
That's OK, but "ID-10-T error" (or a variation thereof) is better.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I bet quite a lot of us could identify a sewing machine pedal instantly. It is a MACHINE after all!
:-)
All right... Who among us didn't play with mom's sewing machine when we were children? And of course, we busted a few needles and sewed any nearby garments together in the process
A dingo ate my sig...
Now, can you tell an oil filter from the master brake cylinder?
:-)
But of course! I have changed many oil filters on many cars, and have had the pleasure of washing the oil out of freshly cut skin, too.
Some years back, I had a Datsun roadster (SPL311) that I would drive from time to time. If it had been sitting for too long, I had to pull the master cylinder and rough up the O-rings to get them to seal again (need those brakes!)
No problem. After all, we are talking about MACHINES here
A dingo ate my sig...
I agree that in a real document environment such as Word, it makes sense to use Tab to format tab stops. But when sending email, spaces with a fixed width font is greatly prefered. The rendering of fonts and the width of tabs is fairly non-standard between different email display programs. Courier font with zero tabs is the only email message "standard" there is, really.
Unless you know that everyone uses the same email program. But even then it's a bad habit to get in. How many times have you gotten an email with an extra "html version" of the email included, with special font formatting information?
-Ted
One of my friends worked in tech support for a while.
..."
This woman once called him up for help finding a file. My friend was telling her to change directories in a dos prompt:
"Type this in at the prompt: C - D
*click* *click*
"Space"
*click* *click* *click* *click* *click*
"Did you just type in S-P-A-C-E?"
"Space, just like you told me"
"No, you're supposed to hit the spacebar"
*click*
"But you have to delete the old letters first. Hit backspace" *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click*
I believe things went downhill from there. She never found her file, needless to say.
-Ted
And other life classics...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Aw, double click is nothing. You should try the spring loaded folders feature in MacOS -- it requires one and a half clicks. It's actually a handy tool, although totally outclassed by FinderPop.
Unix avoids double clicks in favor of binding events to different mouse buttons.And what a mess that can become if different apps use them differently. Two buttons (plus a scroll wheel) is probably optimal for usability, but we'll always get calls like:me: "Right click on the 'My Computer' icon [long explanation deleted], then click on 'Properties'." them: "I don't have Properties. I see 3 1/2 Floppy ..."
Oh wait, we already have them, they're called spelling and grammar check on the word processor...
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Everyone who keeps calling their computer the "hard drive"
What do you mean by hard drive? Are you talkin' about the CPU? ; )
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
They have a story about that same subject too. I remember the exact same discussion. It's very funny.
http://bbspot.com/News/2000/8/hour_lost.html
Some wife called tech support complaining that her web browser was getting pornographic: the "location" drop-down menu was full of porn-site addresses. The tech guy explained that those only appear if the user has typed them in before. Having a clue, she figured it out and very politely hung up...
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Before the Mac and the advent of Windows 3.1 you might have had a point. But at this point it has been several years since computers with mice have been *very* common in both homes and offices I get this question from people who have been working in offices that have been using windows and/or a *nix with the X window system for years. I still get people who can't double click. At this point in the game there is almost no excuse to not understand the basics of how a mouse works. I mean come on my 5 year old son can work a mouse.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
i have one user that keeps calling it the PCU... i keep correcting her, and i even took the time to walk her through the differences between computer and monitor, but bleh.
BLEH.
one of my primary responsibilities is to be on call to support a point of sale system. every once in a while, the system goes down and the computers need to be rebooted. not too tough, right? sure. YOU explain to the manager of a pizza store that pushing the button on the monitor is NOT the same as pushing the power on the computer.
I usually resort to their language- "hit the power button on the hard drive".... but man oh man, do i feel like a gimp when i do that.
--endcycle--
When I did a bit of tech support a few years ago, the best term for those who couldn't or wouldn't RTFM was PEBKAC: Problem exists between keyboard and chair. True now as ever!
sulli
RTFJ.
Go to rinkworks. The page is run by the brother of one of my friends, a nice guy if you ever met one. You can give him your stories to add to the collection. Computer Stupidities
For the goatsex weary, http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
The biggest complaint I hear from people trying to use computers for the first time is, "I can't figure out how to turn the damn thing on." This doesn't say much for usability or intuitiveness. Maybe the people who build products with switches that say I/O instead of On/Off are the ones that need to be gathered together in a home where they can do no harm. For the rest of us, there's Oatfield Estates, the wired retirement home.
The question about double click is valid and logical. Don't make fools from those who ask it.
Look at your email address. Does it end in "aol.com"?
If so, you may be technologically impaired.
I love going down to the elementary school, watching all the kids jump and shout, but they dont know I'm using blanks.
Judging by these stories you may find amusement at techhell.com, where techies go to rant about stupid people.
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--hongpong.com
Many years, ago when a 4.7Mhz IBM XT PC was state of the art, I was told to call new customer who had a problem printing, a hardware engineer had already called and the XT & Epson were fine. It must be a problem with the software, so I called the customer.
The first thing he did was claim the system is not working in 'output mode' " when I ask him to elaborate, he explains he was entering his customer details into the system & it was was working fine in 'I' mode, but as soon as tried 'O' mode to print the details out the system stopped working.
He kept refering to I and O modes, in relation to entering and printing details. I talked him through some tests of entering some details and trying to print them out. I explored every thing I could think of, he repeatedly reported there was no output, there did seem to be a problem printing. Unusual as we supplied a standardised system of software, XT and epson printer.
I decide to visit him in person, after all it was time out of the office, when I'm shown the PC, he's in a meeting and can't be with me. I start checking out the PC, quickly print some console output,its fine; I print a report from the application, it rattles out on the printer; it's all fine. I leave the report on his desk and head back. Now firstly remember at this time mobile phones are something out of science fiction movies. So when I get back to the office to find a message, it is still not working, he's been calling every 10 min's for the last hour demanding I return immediately, I do so without even stopping for a coffee.
On arrival, I'm certain every thing is OK, and it's user error, however he's livid, indeed purple with rage. I'm on tenderhooks, even though I know the system is fine, I need to find out what it is and diplomatically correct it, fat chance in his current mood. I ask me to demonstrate what he's doing. He enters some details, displays them on screen, everything is fine, so far. He then reaches round the right hand side of the PC, and flicks the bright orange button marked 'I' and 'O', I'm stunned for a moment, "NO!! DONT DO THAT!"I shout, but it's too late it's off.
It's the On/Off switch! instantly it all makes horrifying sense!
Moral: Take NOTHING for granted when doing end user support!
I could also tell you about the time I asked an end user to send me copies of their apparently corrupt back-up disks, and I received it by fax, but you simply wouldn't believe it :)
what's wrong with using my cd-rom drive as a cup holder? it fits those big taco bell cups just great.
The sunlight coming in through the window next to her workstation was too bright, and she couldn't see through the glare. His reply?
"Lady, I can do a lot of things, but I can't move the sun for you".
Help find a cure for Gidget.
i have one user that keeps calling it the PCU...
"Can you blow me where the pampers are?"
I usually resort to their language- "hit the power button on the hard drive".... but man oh man, do i feel like a gimp when i do that.
I can't do it. I absolutely cannot bring myself to use their butchered language. Of course, I'm the kind of guy that gets upset when people say that they're "feeling nauseous." (For those outside the loop, the correct word there is "nauseated." Something that is "nauseous" is what makes you feel "nauseated.")
I actually snapped on somebody once. We use Compaq PC's here at work with the easy, snap in, screwless cases and mounting kits for drives. Someone kept calling their computer the "hard drive," and I took the cover off the case and pulled out the actual hard drive and said, "No, this is the hard drive, and it's coming with me!"
They were not amused, but they did learn to call it by the correct name.
1. My brother's in-laws 'got the Internet' a few years ago. I said something about being online at 4am and they stated that it was impossible because the Internet goes down from 3am to 6am every morning for maintenance. Yes, they are on AOL.
2. Back when my dad started surfing (3.x browsers) he claimed that sometimes using Netscape was faster and sometimes using IE was faster. He thought that when you use a browser you are using them as some sort of additional ISP and were 'going through their systems.'
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
Though I am not a professional, I have provided tech support to my relatives and neighbors for many years. My favorite anectote was when my mother, (who used to program punchcards) decided that she had broken the internet. While she was vaccuuming the family room, she knocked out the ethernet cable supporting our household LAN. When none of our computers could connect, she called in tears, thinking she knocked out the WWW!
My Karma is so good, I'm the Dalai Lama...or something.
Forget computers, how about cars. A few years ago, my mother and aunt took turns driving my grandmother to miami from orlando. My mother drove a smaller car and drove rather fast. My aunt had a land-yacht station wagon and drove like an old lady. After a few trips, the three of them were together with my aunt driving to miami when my grandmother had an epiphany. She declared that the reason it took longer to get to miami when my aunt drives is because big cars go slower. You see, there's more wind resistance... so they're slower...
This is the same woman who said that the instruments in her ford tempo look just like an airplane.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
I would have read the site, but when I went there a window opened saying that my internet connect was not optimized. I tried to close it then it took me somewhere else and I got lost. Now there is a picture of Brittany Spears as my wall paper, how do I change it before my wife gets home? Does someone have a pulse phone so that I can call to enroll?
Kenny
(the above is a joke)
- Everyone who keeps calling their computer the "hard drive"
- Everyone who doesn't know the difference between RAM and the hard drive
- People who send documents and use the space bar instead of the tab key for formatting
- Everyone who can't grasp the concept that you need to actually log into the network to access things on the network
Where do I sign up?I was sitting across from my coworker when I overheard this:
Switch to the File Manager (this was Windows 3.1). OK, now on the menu bar...the MENU bar. Right under the title bar. The title bar is at the top of the screen--it's probably blue, with words in it. Right, there. The menu bar is right under that. No, that's the file list--above that. No, it's not the same as the title bar. It's *below* the title bar. No, that's the file list--look a little higher, but not as high as the title bar.
This went on for several minutes while we both switched to the File Manager ourselves to see if the menu bar could be hidden or something....
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324006
On the flip side; I wonder what percentage of /.'s could identify a pic of a sewing machine floor pedal switch out of a lineup of various mouse types?!
Could be interesting / embarasing...
I bet there are plenty of people out there who would enjoy such a thing :)
Maybe if we created some sort of BioSphere like thing and put all of the AOL users in there... they could all just spam each other.
I work in a large office as a network admin and a help desk person. this is the first time I ever worked on a help desk and I have to tell you, I could not belive the questions I had.
:)
"How do I do a right button click"
you tell them to put in there user name and password...
"I have a user name?"
then you have the total technophobes who get beligerant when they don't know how to do somthing, and you try to show them step by step and they say
"damn-it! I don't care about how to start the program(even though they don't know how), Just show me how to do ______(fill in the blank)
it threw me aback and I started to think that these people were all idiots.
the I realized that not everyone is comfortable with computer, and if they were, my boss would find more crap to throw on me
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3