When ASPs Go Under
lar3ry writes: "eWeek has a lead story about companies that have been catching the ASP bandwagon, and now are finding themselves high and dryas ASPs are going out of business. I may be old, but I remember when I was writing applications being used by other companies, that the contracts had agreements that provided for the source code to be held in escrow in case the company that I was working for went out of business. Does this mean that common sense is no longer a virtue in the Internet age? Just whispering a few hot terms like "ASP" makes the CIO of a company blind to any financial exposure that an application has to another company's future? Geez!" This is one thing that scares me about various companies' plans to take care of your data and apps. And unlike "Perpetual Care" at ye olde cemetery, you're still around to feel if the perpetual care stops.
We did this a *long* time ago with a mainframe package -- source code in escrow, with us paying the escrow account fees. The company went bankrupt and died; we petitioned the court for the source, as called for in our contract.
Not allowed. The court rulled that the source code was the *only* asset the company had, and, contract or not, couldn't be delivered to us.
So we ordered the contents of the lock-box destroyed (seemed to have been the *only* copy of the source code -- it had been trade secret and the authors left the company after getting peeved at the legal types that forced a takeover) and filed for a full refund of the contract payments because of breach of contract.
We got about 15 cents on the dollar.
Escrow would only be helpful if these companies were offering proprietary products - some of them may be, but many are not. They are offering access to applications which the out-sourcing company could either not afford to pay full whack for as they're only using it from time to time (maybe a major accounting package) or applications which the companies don't want to spend the time and money learning how to administer. These two cases are about access to available applications in a new way, not about access to new applications.
/. yesterday, maybe this is a good model for OSS applications - you don't need to train too many people to support the software, you just need them available from a central point.
Microsoft, don't forget, is going with a licensing model that is likely to help the ASP model - you license for use, but that doesn't mean that you hold the software yourself - why not get someone else to look after it for you?
My general feeling is that there is a lot to be said for an ASP-like model. If I have 20 people out of 2000 using a complicated ERP package, for instance, why should I have 2 or 3 of my IT support staff learning all about it so that they can support it all the hours of the day? It may be mission critical, but if I can find someone else to provide access to it, and not have to worry about training for support, then that's got to be a good thing. The problem seems to be that either the market isn't ready, or the model isn't mature enough. Maybe the applications don't suit the deployment model.
What's more, given the discussion about tech support on
ASP, then, isn't by definition a Bad Thing[tm] - but it may not yet be a Ready Thing for everybody. We seem ready to accept managed hosting - before we sentence the ASP model, let's think around it in more detail.
An ASP is, essentially, trusting someone else with something you don't trust yourself with. In many cases it is a wise decision, e.g. should Mom & Pop's neighborhood small business try to run their own accounting system or let IBM do it? However, it is of vital importance to remember that you are trusting your mission critical apps to someone else - and these are the sorts of things that a business would not be prudent to rely on a contract to protect.
So, in short, don't sign up with an ASP you don't trust. (When I say "trust" what I mean is you trust that they 1. don't go out of business 2. don't screw up 3. don't attempt to screw you over, etc... no small amount of trust.) Which pretty much means don't mess around with VC fueled startups. I suppose it would also be a good idea to have an escape plan (e.g. some way to export your data into a competitor's system) but by no means does it alleviate rule #1.
I'm very well aware of the kind of software we're talking about here, and I know that, given that you're committing to an ASP, it's better to have that backup. What I'm saying is that such a scheme does not come close to alleviating the substantial risk associated with commiting to an ASP, and that point still stands.
They don't necessarily have to develop the software, but they do need to serve it- remember, the company's infrastructure is set up for a remotely served application, and so in order to avoid a lot of transition hassle, they would need to set up a server of their own which mirrors the functionality of the ASP's server. While I've never done anything like that, I get the distinct impression that it's non-trivial.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
The poster mentions an escrow scheme and licensing so that the customers can, presumably, take over the software they are licensing if the provider bails. However, this is not an adequate solution.
The whole premise of application services is that it is not economical for the customers to purchase, install, and support their business software, and must rely on an outside service provider to do those things for them. Is a company which considers it uneconomical to even perform these normal IT-type tasks going to be willing to take over the development and provision (even if only internal) of the service in question? Not bloody likely. Even if a company is forced to take on such a burden by sheer business necessity, it will involve a huge amount of disruption to the normal activities of the business.
Such a contractual solution is no solution at all. Companies which use application-services vendors to provide software essential to their core business must understand that they are in effect betting their company on the hope that the ASP will not go under- a rather foolish bet in this industry, unless the payoffs are truly enormous.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
I don't want to screw up your perfectly good joke, but I believe that this article is speaking of ASP as Application Service Provider, rather than Microsofts Active Server Pages.
Unless of course I am wrong, in which case I am very interested to know how the people that jumped on the JSP and PHP bandwagon are doing, respectively. =)
Alex
Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
First of all if the company signs a contract saying I get their code under particular circumstances a backruptcy court has little to say to it. Why? I get the code BEFORE the company's assets are sold off because my contract takes effect at such time. To keep such code safe you stick it in escrow someplace (or multiple places, especially if its worth 250k to you).
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Hell, the phone company in Indy can't keep voice over a single pair running, for that matter.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Indy: "Snakes. Why did it have to be snakes?"
Sallah: "ASPs. Very dangerous. You go first."
--
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Application Service Providers. Remote hosting of mission-critical applications. They're dropping like flies
Timothy get's an F in grammar today.
And so does the Grammar Nazi.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
But isn't an ASP just like any service provider? If you don't plan ahead and read where trends are going, you are doomed. Trying to stay based on one technology alone is probably what did these poor fellows in. That, and not consolidating or striking big as things slowly moved up from mom and pop shops to corporations.
But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
JoeLinux
And doubtfully much more.
.NET is a whole different critter.
Isn't Ebay, essentially, using an ASP business model? I also consider electronic record
translation services to fall under the ASP
model.
Microsoft
If your connection to the service goes down,
you go down. Not many companies today can
take that kind of risk.
Whenever I have a problem with my asp scripts not working, I just have to reboot my Windows 2000 server.
Rather fundemental to business is avoiding relying on suppliers who may go out of business unless you know there is a second source for what is being supplied.
When Joe's Flange Factory goes out of business, is there usually a row about those who used model GD47-j and are now left in the lurch? Why should it be any commoner with ASPs?
There is another aspect to this too. As one can see from the article, the larger the ASP provider the better, since that gives some security that they will be there next year too. Even better would be an ASP provider backed up by a large company. That means, in the ASP market only a few big Providers will handle most of the market.
Also those Providers handle the most valuable thing of their customers, their information. With many customers businesses relying on an ASPs service the ASP must thus not only provide the application, but also security.
They must secure the data against unauthorized access, thus they needs well administrated firewalls, security personel (what good is a firewall if someone can sneak in at night and steal the harddisk?) and trustworthy employees. They must cover for breakdown of equipment, that means redundancies and backups, to keep dataloss and downtimes at a minimum. They need some financial backing to ensure he's not out of business if something unforeseen happens. They also need special contracts for the software they're using and providing, so they're not subject to a sudden change of license terms which void their business model. They need some lawyers too, since the legal trouble of one of their customers might affect them too.
In many aspects an ASP can be compared with a bank, the main difference being, that one handles information while the other handles money (which is just a special kind of information also). So it doesn't do to put up some computing equipment and a helpdesk, security and reliability is necessary too. Especially when one considers, how many customers businesses rely on that ASPs service.
But an ASP provider whith that sort of reliability and security probably can't compete with the cheap "ten servers and a helpdesk" approach. Well the customer decides, if a company risks to go down (or at least have significant expenses) when their ASP goes broke to avoid paying their own IT folks they'd better check that ASP has adequate security and reliability.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Just whispering a few hot terms like "ASP" makes the CIO of a company blind to any financial exposure that an application has to another company's future? Geez!"
I got up close and whiserped "A-S-P" in the CIO ear and he didn't exactly go blind like this author would have you think. In fact he just looked at me like I was a freak or something... proving that his eye sight is in fact fine.
Slashdot should check there fact before posting this junk.
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Well now...
If I was saving big bucks by using an ASP to host MS Office, and maybe Internet Explorer, I'm not spending that cash on buying M$ licenses, am I? I'm not spending that cash buying PCs, either, since I'm buying thin terminals for my DP folks, and others that only need these apps. I'm not paying desktop support people to maintain 2-3 year old P-II-300s with 64MB RAM, or paying to upgrade them etc. etc.
This means I can spend *some* of the extra cash on redundant links to the internet, no? In fact, I could even spend that cash on dedicated frame-relay to the ASP site, with a backup T1 to the 'net through different trunks, couldn't I?
Also, if I'm outsourcing Explorer, the bandwidth that I'm using for web isn't going through my T1, I'm only getting the screenscrape, which is lower bandwidth than the page, *and*, if I'm outsourcing Exchange, I'm *not* getting 50MB attachments (who does this? why bother?) through my T1, they're landing at the ASP, and staying there.
Oh, and my ASP is colo'd at a facility with redundant everything, and I don't need to buy an amazingly large UPS, generator, etc. etc for my data. Sounds good to me.
-JPJ
Feh.
I mentioned in a previous post to another story several days ago about a conversation I had with the business director of a nearby prep school and how he believed ASPs were a good thing. What I don't get is how anyone would willingly tie themselves down to someone else's service on the assumption that the network connection and the service would always be there...
All I'll say is this: I once had someone make me an offer to do some integration work for his ASP. I turned him down because he wanted to pay me in equity as opposed to cash and I didn't really think his business model was workable.
/Brian
We recently spent about $250K for an enterprise-level job costing/asset management, etc., etc., system. At my insistence, we had written into the RFP that a) if the company goes out of business they hand over the source gratis, and b) if the company is sold, we have the option of purchasing the code for a pre-agreed upon price.
As I told my boss, we invested a lot of money in this system. If one of their competitors should buy them out with the idea of discontinuing the product so that we would be forced to purchase (and implement) another system of this sort, or we aren't getting the quality of support we require, we need to protect ourselves.
Let's become partners with someone who has a business model that doesn't work!
The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
I have seen so many companies buy into the outsourcing myth. A few execs and PHB's look great for a while, as they count up the savings. But then, lo! and behold, there are some surprises. I have a large, long-term client that outsourced its entire IT organization to IBM. Now, this is no knock on the many good IBM engineers who were providing my client its services and support, many of whom were my friends; unlike many outsource deals, this one did keep good resources and practices in place. But after a couple of years, the company was still hurting, because there was nobody inside the headquarters building whose job it was to make an informed technical decision. All their strategic choices were delegated to a third party in the computer services biz, not in the user company's biz.
Any time a company outsources its mission-critical systems, knowledge, or decisions, it's taking a big chance.
JMHO -- Trevor
-- We all have enough strength to endure the misfortunes of other people. La Rochefoucauld
As far as getting companies to pay for what they order, also. We've had a hell of a time with collections lately, and I'm wishing I'd time-bombed some of the projects for these clients. I don't think we're going out of business any time soon, but our clients sure act like they're on the verge of liquidation.
You drank my drink, you drunk!
> Timothy get's an F in grammar today.
/. free of grammatical errors. ;-)
I think you meant "gets an F...", not "get's an F...".
Just trying to keep
-Jason-
ASP is one of those really cool technologies that is scary if you really think about it. When you host an application off site, there are soooo many things that can go wrong. Say you're running word locally. The only thing that can stop you from using word is your computer not working. Now, say you're running word from an ASP who is located externally to your building. Even if your computer works, your hub, router, the line that connects you to the ASP (which may be managed by an completley apathetic phone company), the asp's hub, router, or server may have a problem which stops you from being able to run Word. Now imagine word is a mission critical application, hard decision which one is safer/cheaper? I don't think so. Once you get past the coolness of ASP, it doesnt look so great.
The (Hopefully) Great Slashdot Blackout Apr 21-27
Maybe I'm nuts, but stuff like this whole .NET thing, and all of the other "let us host your apps and data, it's better" companies make me really nervous. I guess I'm just a control freak, but with the current state of tech support (hold please) I just don't feel comfortable that these folks can do what they say they can. Hell, the phone company can't even keep something as simple as my DSL running right, what incentive do I have to believe that remote apps will be any more reliable.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
The overall economy, one might call it the, "behind the scenes," economy at this point, is fine. The recent economic indicator report showed that the GDP went up nicely (I believe it was 2.2%) as well as all the other measurements of how the economy is doing, except for one. The stock market. Which dropped like a rock but now seems to have (at least temporarily) stabilized. Over the past couple of years a bunch of companies were overfunded that had bad business plans or just had too many compeitors. The recent report has shown that the economy will be fine; with all the badly thought out startups calling it quits though, the stock market may make it seem like we're crashing. Don't worry about it too much unless your lively hood is on the line, consumer confidence is too important in our economy to panic because the bloated Nasdaq is culling the weak from the herd.
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
Some people seem to be confusing an ASP with ASP. The ASP in the article refers to Application Service Providers, not Active Server Pages. Therefore, this article has NOTHING to do with php, as some have said. Just giving a heads up to those who misunderstood.