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Windows XP and Incompatibilities with Multi-Booting?
Morgan asks: "
Windows XP (Whistler) won't boot from disks with MBR partition tables, requiring a new GUID Partition Table (GPT). It will still read and write MBR disks. In a cursory search, I find no work to support GPT with LILO or other multi-booting Linux loaders. I'm a 'one OS, one disk' man, especially since disks are so cheap, but what about those who aren't handy with a screwdriver (and an IDE cable)? An easily installable Linux distro that shrinks the Windows partition, but allows multi-booting without requiring a re-install of Windows is a great Trojan horse: 'here, try this real OS, but if you don't like it, or you need a particular app, you can always boot Windows.' Will GPT make this harder?" What reasoning was behind the move to GPT? By making Whistler incompatible with the standard MBR, this could be seen by many as another move to stifle competition in the PC market. How do you feel about it?
The Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is an attempt to bring ancient PC "standards" up to something reasonable. Almost all hardware and OS/driver vendors are _for_ this. This is an attempt to give PC's real firmware, rather than the hack they have now.
If you've ever used big iron UNIX hardware, you've probably enjoyed the conveniance that the firmware itself provides (or maybe not).
Replacing the MBR is one aspect of this. This is not something to worry about unless MS pulls the embrace and extend crap, but I doubt they'd stoop to it on such a low-level aspect.
With some exceptions, all OS, Driver, and Hardware developers/vendors want EFI.
Possible conspiracy theories:
Realistically, the worst that EFI can do is give us something better than what we have now. At best, it could make PC's pleasurable (but don't bet on it).
Well, none unless one wants to remove many of the more arcane constraints of MBR. Frankly everyone who knows anything about drives and layouts agrees MBR was obsolete over a decade ago and should been retired back then.
Furthermore for most users this won't be a big deal, certianly not for Jane-hobbyist. If you actually bothered to do a bit of research you'll discover that this implementation is fairly backwards-amendable except for some high-end configurations where it's unlikely to be an issue anyhow.
Finally, hard drives retail for ~US$100/20GB, anyone installing XP is likely to be able to pony up the cash. This change won't affect ye olde 486s.
By your logic is any hardware advancement possible or shall the industry remain forever stuck in 1980's technology? At least Apple moved to OpenFirmware along with the rest of the workstation market or is that somehow part of an evil plot too? Ahh, so it's not StUdLy enough for yeah, huh? Luckly you'll be able to change the chrome to a camoflauge background and Matrix-themes to assauge your offended aesthetics. Debunked. Yeah, patching things Baaaaadddd... right. Doi! The market gets what it buys. IS Depts & consumers continue to buy on sizzle & psuedo-feature sets then MS will continue selling it to them. It built a megacompany so they're doing something right.I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Is it your intention to make the Linux community look like idiots? Seriously. You post these half-baked articles so frequently, often incorrect and always misleading, and they always get the community fired up to the point of seeing who can make the dumbest post about something that's not even true.
Not sure how many people here are familiar with it, but it's almost like a digital equivalent of the Phil Hendrie Radio Show. It's a hilarious show, btw, if anyone has a chance to listen to it. He'll have guests on (actually voiced by himself) who make dumb and subtly inflammatory comments, but keeping it halfway believable. So every show, you end up with all these people calling up the show and getting irate arguing with some fictional character. (Hendrie = ./ editors, Guest = story submission, Callers = Linux advocate posters). In both places the comedy comes in large part from listening to or reading the opinions of the idiots who believe what they just heard and subsequently make incredible asses of themselves.
Cheers,
When you look at other partitioning schemes (such as the RDB system that the Amiga has used since the 80s) the whole MBR/fdisk thing is a complete joke. The anachronistic partitioning system on x86 PeeCees has caused me to waste significant time on something that should be trivial, and there's a whole sub-industry of bootloaders and utilities just to get around the arbitrary limitations that were built in by some visionless idiot in the early 80s.
Dumping it is a good move. And I note that this time (for a change) MS isn't replacing it with a proprietary decommoditized MS-only defacto standard de jour. This one is open and anyone can be compatable with it. What's not to like?
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
As stated in the Win XP FAQ, GUID partitioning is a replacement for MBR partitioning that allows more partitions on the disk, of any size, without the silly BIOS limitations. It's a part if EFI, the Extensible Firmware Interface that is replacing the old hairball that is the BIOS. The IA-64 Linux distributions already have a version of LILO that works with EFI.
In short, don't worry, Linux adapts, as it always does.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Note that this only applies to the 64-bit (Itanium) version of XP, not the 32-bit.
Just goes to show how many slashbots are ready to flame without even reading the material linked to (about 30% at the time I was reading, comments at +1 and above). That's a scary amount of political power if CmdrTaco is ever looking to mobilize the ignorant forces...
:)
deus does not exist but if he does
Yes.
14. Can the 64-bit version of Windows Whistler read, write, and boot from MBR disks?
The 64-bit version of Windows Whistler can read and write MBR disks, but cannot boot from MBR disks.
15. Can the 32-bit version of Windows Whistler read, write, and boot from GPT disks?
No. The 32-bit version will see only the Protective MBR. The EE partition will not be mounted or otherwise exposed to application software.
16. Can the 32-bit version of Windows Whistler read, write, and boot from MBR disks?
Yes.
Note that this only applies to the 64-bit (Itanium) version of XP, not the 32-bit. Frankly, I wished it worked with the 32 bit version too, since the current MBR-based scheme sucks. Try having FAT + NTFS + Linux + FreeBSD + Plan 9, etc on one disk and you'll wish for something better too.
I think we need to suspend paranoia mode for a second here. according to the FAQ, the GPT disk partitioning specification is a documented Intel standard. and, really, isn't it about time for the old MBR scheme to die? the architectural limit to 4 primary partitions is getting old. GPT can scale far better and has a less arcane internal structure (cylinder and head arithmetic, anyone?)
and if you read more carefully you will see that it is only the 64-bit version of Whistler that won't boot on MBRs. the 32-bit version should boot just fine.
I think MS is just scaling with their new OS architecture. anything can be viewed through an anti-competitive lense. the important question is: will we be getting a better OS? I think so.
sean
First about this post. As others have commented, this only applies to Windows XP/2002 running on IA-64 processors. All operating systems wishing to boot on these systems will need changes to work with Intel's firmware for IA64 based systems. /. that keeps raising its ugly head. All too often stories are posted that are not checked up on. I understand that those who run /. can not be expected to be experts in everything but stories are often posted that only required a simple reading of a FAQ or two to see that the post is just plain wrong. I had high hopes of /. getting much more professional when it was purchased by Andover. But nothing has changed. The staff seems about the same size and quality that it was before the corporate move. /. really has such great potential. If it could start using expert editors who only post stories that have been properly checked. One reason I love magazines like Discover and Popular Science because the stories are usually checked out pretty well. I understand the need to post things that generate interest but the site also claims to be a news site. No self respecting news site would allow such a low level of checking into the background of the stories they present. Is /. a news site at its heart or just entertainment? It has the potential to be both a high quality and entertaining news site and discussion forum. I understand that /. is a business and the object of a business is to make profits for their shareholders but I don't understand why this has to be in direct opposition to high quality.
/.er who hopes things get better...
This brings a fact about
from a
-- soldack
Converting MBR System Disks for 64-bit Windows Whistler
Partition Manager Help
LILO
LILO mini-HOWTO
Multi-Booting with LILO
Multiple Boot Advice for x86
The Ultimate Windows Whistler News
Usability comparison: Windows Whistler vs. Gnome 1.2, KDE 2.0, Mandrake Update
How to Download YouTube Videos
Indeed, a simple Google search reveals that the Linux community is on this.
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-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Maybe I'm just a little dense, but I have no idea why this is "from the another-attempt-to-stifle-competition dept." If you can get the specification, how are they attempting to be incompatible?
Look here. More than 4 partitions without hacks like extended partitions..... Personally, I'm looking forward to this becoming mainstream.
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We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
with the move towards having EFI as the intermediate between the BIOS and the OS, the GPT is a step to get rid of the one more legacy element in the PC. The MBR is considered a legacy agent, mainly by the fact to get to it, you have to use software interrupts. These are trying to be phased out. Now, with the GPT, you can install as many OSs as you would like, they each just need an entry in the table (which is very easy to do) and a file on the harddrive that actually tells it where to go.