Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Who Owns Your Culture?

Posted by Hemos on from the wow dept.

Galvatron writes "The Maori people of New Zealand are suing Lego for creating a polynesian-themed game without their permission, according to CNN. Ridiculous? You bet. But it's just one example of the kind of thing the Hague Convention could make possible."

27 of 219 comments (clear)

  1. Dangerous Precedent by Seth+Golub · · Score: 5

    If this holds up, they'll soon find themselves being sued by pirates, medieval knights, firemen, and the association of people with bumpy yellow heads.

  2. Let's carry this a bit further by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4

    How about Germans suing Disney for Cinderella? Would Disney then blame it on the brothers Grimm?

    Will Americans sue Mark Twain's heirs for not asking permission?

    Will Jews sue Christians for Jewish heritage in the Bible?

    How about anyone who has ever had a newspaper article written about them? Go sue the newspaper!

    And my favorite: my name, my financial records, my address, all that info -- seems to be my IP, eh? Except of course my name, which is part my parents' IP, and grandparents, etc. And the street name, which is the heritage of not only the guy it was named after, but everybody else living on it. And the city name, state, country, etc.

    I don't see how any of these are anything more than just the next step in pushing IP ownership. Pretty soon all info will be so tightly controlled, no one will be able to speak or write without violating somebody's IP, and in most cases, the true ownership will be so hard to pin down, there will be a zillion people suing each other as to who actually owns the IP! I imagine we will have to put royalties into escrow accounts until that's settled.

    I say let's go for it, get IP rights so twisted they will have to be thrown out altogether.

    --

    --
    Infuriate left and right
  3. SimPolynesia? by grub · · Score: 4

    NEWS FLASH:Monty Python has been served notice that the heirs of King Arthur are going to sue them for creating an Arthurian-themed movie without the expressed consent of the family.

    grub

    Yes, I know Arthur was a legend :)

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  4. Re:Ridiculous? Why? by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 5

    I dunno about you, but if I were a member of an indigenous people which had been decimated in the past couple of centuries by various effects of European contact, I'm not sure I'd want some Danish toy company commodifying my identity either.

    You missed the point. It's ridiculous to think there could actually be a legal basis to such a suit.

    In a way, it's rather sublime. It's intellectual property taken to the extreme. I almost wish this would happen, as it would provide a great example of what's wrong with IP laws.

    Of course, I _almost_ wish it... with the way things have been going as of late, they might actually win... :P

  5. Re:What's next? by jimmyphysics · · Score: 3

    How about we sue the producers of such movies as Hackers and such. They used *our* culture without our permission, and portrayed it in a negative and untrue light.

  6. This is nuts. by RJ11 · · Score: 5

    By this same standard, any game which features characters with american names, and is in english, with allusions to the american culture, should be under similar scrutiny.

    I'm sure that if the Lego were a Polynesian company, this wouldn't be an issue either.

  7. My two cents by Salamander · · Score: 3

    I think a lot of what's being said here is pretty off-base. I think the Maori people have every right to complain about the misappropriation and commoditization of cultural symbols. Where they go wrong is in treating those symbols as intellectual property. It's not. Words and images etc. already in common use - in any language - are not copyrightable and that's that. You can't claim copyright retroactively.

    IMO Lego should offer to donate some of the profits from sale of the game to charities that help Polynesian people - not just Maori, BTW. Suits like this are the stock in trade of a few opportunistic pricks who have spent years taking advantage of their brown skin to line their own pockets with extortionate lawsuits, ruining the NZ economy in the process and generally doing exactly nothing to preserve Maori culture or improve the lot of the average Maori on the street. By making an offer to contribute to legitimate Polynesian-indigene causes and organizations, Lego would both be performing a culturally sensitive humanitarian act and showing up the charlatans for what they are (when they refuse to accept such a settlement because it doesn't make them rich).

    --
    Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
  8. Re:Trademarking words = bad by Tower · · Score: 3

    MS also brought you 'Bob'(tm) and 'Windows'(tm)(c)(r)(sm)(ayb), as well as 'Start'(tm). Though I'm sure none of those words are nearly as common in everyday usage as McDonald's 'Smile'(tm)...

    --

    --
    "It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
  9. Ridiculous? Why? by carlhirsch · · Score: 5

    I dunno about you, but if I were a member of an indigenous people which had been decimated in the past couple of centuries by various effects of European contact, I'm not sure I'd want some Danish toy company commodifying my identity either.

    -carl

    --
    . We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
    1. Re:Ridiculous? Why? by RedWizzard · · Score: 5
      IAANZ (I am a New Zealander). NZ was just about the last country to be invaded/colonized by Europeans, the founding document (the Treaty of Waitangi) was signed just over 150 years ago. That document give the Maori people unparalleled rights. Far less oppression of the indigenous people occured in NZ than, for example, America or Australia. I'm not saying everything was rosy, though. There were land wars fought, and dodgy purchases of land (large tracks of land for some blankets and a few muskets type of thing). But the NZ government has made a genuine effort to provide restitution in the form of money, land, and rights granted to the various Maori tribes. Basically a tribe who feel they have a claim on something can voice that claim under the Treaty of Waitangi and the government will consider it. Some of these claims have been quite controversial, for example the land occupied by one of NZ universities was claimed and granted, claims have been made on radio and TV frequencies (sold to the tribes at a reduced rate), a big chunk of offshore fishing rights (granted), land which just happens to be occupied by large powerstations (not granted).

      The point I'm trying to get to is that some Maori tribes have got into a habit of making claims on property not because they were cheated out of it by colonists but because that property is now comercially valuable. In the Lego case three tribes from the northern part of NZ are making these claims and if I were feeling cynical I'd say it's because they think they can get some money out of Lego. AFAICS Lego are not stealing or commodifying anyone's identity, they are just using a couple of Maori/Polynesian words (nothing specific to the Maori language at all) in a ficitional game. Here is an article from the Sydney Morning Herald which has specific details of the usage of the words in the game.

      http://www.smh.com.au/news/0106/01/text/world13.ht ml

    2. Re:Ridiculous? Why? by 3prong · · Score: 3


      Yeah, but Lego's lawyers are taken apart each night to be stored in large Tupperware(tm) containers. Hard to win against that kind of thing.

  10. Here's why by TomatoMan · · Score: 5

    I dunno about you, but if I were a member of an indigenous people which had been decimated in the past couple of centuries by various effects of European contact, I'm not sure I'd want some Danish toy company commodifying my identity either.

    I know I feel pretty commodified by the Ken doll.

    OK, I'm being facetious, and since I'm at the top of fhe food chain, I can only say so much. But this whole thing is patently ridiculous and I'm not the slightest bit worried about it becoming a reality. Once you start down that slippery slope, where do you stop? Are we allowed to TALK about Maoris without infringing on their culture? Write about them? Where's the line? It's absurd. It's a short step from here to banning black Barbies. Why? What is gained by doing that?

    Your identity is not compromised when someone makes a doll that looks like you. Surely Maoris have more important battles to fight than this one. How about seeking more representation in the NZ parliament? How about addressing questions of land confiscation? How about preserving Maori language and culture through sharing and outreach, rather than trying to establish a stamp of unenforceable "ownership" over whatever incredibly vague notion of "likeness" they're trying to tie this thing to?

    TomatoMan

    --
    -- http://frobnosticate.com
    1. Re:Here's why by lim-bim-tim-wim · · Score: 3

      I know I feel pretty commodified by the Ken doll.

      The "indians" of north america felt the same when bundled up, have money thrown at them and in general forgottern by the invaders from Europe(Funny, I had relatives on the Mayflower). Owww.. what? Did I say invader? Yeah invader, I mean it. Look up invasion in a dictionary, sounds a bit like colonisation doesn't it? That's how we feel sometimes.

      Your identity is not compromised when someone makes a doll that looks like you.

      That's not the Maori take on things. Those tats on their face are almost like rank marks. A person does not dress up like a police officer and walk down the street, that's most likely to be illegal where you live (It sure is here). Why? If everyone did it, we wouldn't know a real cop from a fake one. They are marks ARE our culture. The stories are our culture. It's seeping away, and we want to protect it. Some children don't even know a few Maori myths or traditions and the language is faltering. Lego toys arn't the way to educate a child about culture. They are, however, excellent creative outlets, I have heaps of the stuff from when I was younger :-). I digress, the fact is we need to re-enforce our culture is it's original and un-fucked-up by crappy interpretations (Read: Western. See: Dances with Wolves (Utter crap), Braveheart (Yeah right) + any hollywood interpretation of an old story brought down to modern 30sec attention spans).

      Surely Maoris have more important battles to fight than this one.

      Yeah, ignorance. The word is "Maori", not "Maoris", there is no word "Maoris", the plural of "Maori" is "Maori".

      How about seeking more representation in the NZ parliament?

      Ignorance. The Maori are currently over represented in Parliament. The Maori are granted special dispensation. And the proportional voting system also helps. It is slightly un-democratic, but hey, looking after those at bottom of the pile has kinda been the way for a long time now. The Maori seats have existed since god knows when in the NZ parliament. BTW - Don't tell a Kiwi how to run a representational democracy, we have been doing it longer and in my opinion, better, than anybody else.

      How about addressing questions of land confiscation?

      Ignorance. We have been doing this better than anybody else for quite some time now, see the Waitangi Tribunal website

      How about preserving Maori language and culture through sharing and outreach, rather than trying to establish a stamp of unenforceable "ownership" over whatever incredibly vague notion of "likeness" they're trying to tie this thing to?

      I support the introduction of compulsory teaching of Te Reo (The Maori language) at school. I hope this becomes law, it probably will in the next few years. I welcome it because I never really had the opportunity to learn. I could learn it now that I am at university, but I'm up to my eyeballs in Biology.. You might want to see This document concerning how we feel about protecting our culture, in this case, a recommendation was made that Te Reo was made an official language of New Zealand. It has been an huge boost to the culture.

  11. What's next? by Kreeblah · · Score: 5

    Let's sue Matt Groening for creating an American culture-themed TV show without the express permission of the U.S. government . . .

  12. Trademarking words = bad by Infonaut · · Score: 3

    All the blather about colonial exploitation aside, wouldn't you be pissed if someone tried to trademark a word or idiom from your culture?

    "Now introducing 'Dude'(tm), the linguistic innovation from Microsoft, the company that also brought you 'Buddy'(tm), 'Radical'(tm), and 'Gnarly'(tm)!!! Don't worry, you can still use these words in your head, in dreams or other thoughts, but if you use them in any written or oral form, you'll have to pay us a small usage fee."

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  13. Re:What's next? by gargle · · Score: 3

    If companies can trademark phrases and logos, why can't cultures trademark and protect their phrases and tatoos?

  14. "considering suing" != "are suing" by clem.dickey · · Score: 5

    The submittor should have read the article more carefully.

  15. More lawsuit trolling... by StevenMaurer · · Score: 3

    Again this is just a few lawyers trolling using the court system.

    Remember you can file just about any suit you want. It's not getting it laughed out of court that's the hard part.

    Culture is the quintessence of "public domain". This will go nowhere fast, unless LEGO decides the 'bad publicity' is more costly than just giving in.

  16. No Stupid by g8oz · · Score: 5

    They are suing because Lego is trademarking Maori words for use in the game. Sheesh.

  17. If this works I'm suing Slashdot! by Picass0 · · Score: 4

    I'll sue this website on the basis they have created a geek-theme website without my permission. As a geek I should be consulted and compensated.

    I will also sue major hollywood studios for the portrayal of geeks in film, because it infringes on my intellectual property rights to geek language and culture.

  18. If the Maori are successful... by ackthpt · · Score: 3
    Then Disney Co. better start hiring lawyers left and right, as they've coopted any number of cultures in their films and other media.

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  19. Re:Ridiculous? Maybe so, but it doesn't make it ri by lupa · · Score: 4

    but where does *education of children* fit into this discussion of intellectual property? lego has done something good, in my opinion - they've created something at least *vaguely* culturally accurate to portray a Maori or Polynesian group. children who play with these legos won't think of Polynesian cultures as the grand 'other'... this is quite unlike Hollywood, or other groups that mangle culture to fit whatever story they're doing.

  20. Ground zero: Las Vegas by JohnTheFisherman · · Score: 3

    A cartoonish representation of practically every culture known to man, and deep, deep pockets. I'll bet some lawyers in Vegas are salivating right now....

    --
    +5:offtopic,but anti-American
  21. Well obviously by joshyboy · · Score: 3

    Troll Alert:
    All your culture are belong to use

    Thank you for your time.
    --

  22. UH oH. by El+Camino+SS · · Score: 4

    Looks like the price of Civilization III just went up, A LITTLE BIT.

  23. And in other news... by blair1q · · Score: 5

    Cro-Magnon spokesman Korg has issued a press release stating that the Cro-Magnon are suing Blue Seude for infliction of emotional distress.

    Their suit, Korg contends, stems not from the repeated use of the phrase "Ooga-Chaka", but from the tens of thousands of hours of airplay afforded to "Hooked on a Feeling? one of the worst songs ever recorded. The Cro-Magnon claim that this threat to human survival affects their 70,000-year-old culture the most, and is amplified by their innate susceptibility to the introductory refrain. They concluded that the effect is deliberate, according to the release.

    Also named in the suit are several hundred radio stations, '70s-night disco bars, and Cher ("just for the hell of it", said Korg).

    --Blair

  24. Commodification by Taketoshi · · Score: 5

    It's all iffy territory, really. There are folks in the US who get pissed because Disney commodifies traditional western cultural symbols, fairy tales, and works of art (Hercules, Pocahontas, Hunchback of Notre-Dame), and I know I'm one of them. They don't necessarily blatantly misrepresent something of cultural significance, but they remove many of the 'difficult points' to make it more accessible. Unfortunately, when you do that you often remove a lot of the very subtle but highly important elements of it that you've overlooked in your 'popularization.' Remember, culture IS what it seems to be. Children are growing up right around us without a clear sense of history because of all the 'tales for children' that exist to make learning easier. We don't pass along cultural identity to our descendants by showing them finger-paintings of the Mona Lisa (well, not usually). Why should we be bothered that the Maori would like to prevent that from happening to them? -lit geek on the loose