Shocking Force Feedback Ideas

Erston writes "It seems as if this could really make it to market. Mad Catz is working on a game controller that will zap you with electrodes when you are on the receiving end of your enemies' weapon. The story is here. I hope the zapper will work without the controller- I'm a keyboard/mouse fragger myself. But the more senses that I can get involved in Quake, the better-- There is also an interesting trivia piece on the bottom of the page that talks about electroshock/bio(force)feedback and how it relates to a chimpanzee in the pre-manned spaceflight era of NASA. . . " I've been using similiar technology to train CowboyNeal to get me coffee/cookies/girls and so far it hasn't been successful, but this appears to be much more practical.

Comments

We did this with the TI-85

[ry4an]

Back in 1995 a friend of mine wrote a low grade FPS for the TI-85. For feedback when shot he'd send data down the calculator's TI-Link cable, the other end of which was placed in the player's mouth. It wasn't painful, but you definately felt it.
--

Re:We did this with the TI-85

[fishy jew]

I once wrote a really simple prog for a TI-85 which basically displayed a random tangent. The graph looked just like brain waves, and I would make it loop, using a different random number each time. I then took a white poker chip and taped it to one of a link cable. it looked just like an electrode, and I would give it to friends at school and say here-scan your brain. fun stuff

Re:Imagine...

[Squid]

I mean, really, if you're going for as real an experience as possible, why not just skip the freaking games and go out in the back with a couple glocks and have at it. This is just silly.

Two words: replay value.

Re:Smells like a hoax

[chromatic]

That's okay. I got nausea after playing the original Doom, so it's not like there isn't prior art.

--

sex toy not limited to S&M

[Tool-Man]

Yes, this device -- or something like it -- is a good candidate for use as a sex toy. However, the mild electric current used hardly puts such activity in the S&M category. I know, I have a TENS unit, and yes, I have put it on my private parts. You can turn it up to the point that it's painful. However, there's lots of interesting settings prior to crossing the pain threshold.

A better comparison would be to a vibrator. I'm sure the range of intensity on this controller is far less than a TENS unit. In reality, the results would probably bore someone in S&M scene.

Re:This isn't new

[Robotech_Master]

Well, actually Bond and Blofeld never met even once in that movie. Blofeld (Max Von Sydow) had about two scenes in the entire show, and then was never seen again. It probably would have been a much better film if he had been the main villain.

The people developing this system had better be careful, though . . . it might be that Kevin McClory (the fellow with the Thunderball remake rights) could sue them for patent infringement. ;)
--

This isn't new

[geophile]

Remember that James Bond movie? Bond and some bad guy (Klaus Maria Bandauer?) were playing this nuke the planet video game on this big display that floated in space between the two players, and each time you got hit, you got zapped by the two joysticks you held. That was cool.

Re:This isn't new

[Rogerborg]

• Remember that James Bond movie?

Never Say Never Again? Does this mean that we have to play Quake wearing a dinner jacket and saying "Sho, Mishter Blofeld, we meetsh again." ?

Anyone else remember

[flink]

...the laser tag-like game from the early 90's with the feedback helmet. When you got shot, it would shock your dome!

good training

[austad]

Actually, using this will most likely improve your Quake, and other FPS game. Now you have an actual reason to avoid being shot, it hurts.

When I used to play Laser Tag as a kid, I didn't care if I got shot. But when I switched to playing paintball, I became a much better player because it hurts like hell to get shot with a paintball (big red welts).

reality check

[Chief Justice]

First, people need to stop comparing this stuff to electroconvulsive shock therapy, in which a current is applied across one or both lobes of the brain as a treatment for severe depression and other problems, and which can produce confusion, nausea, and memory loss.

ECT uses 1 amp at 160-500 volts, whereas this controller uses 0.016 amp at 1.5-4.5 volts (depending on how it's wired, I dunno.) So even if you connected the electrodes to the right spots on your head, you would still not be in the neighborhood of ECT treatment.

Second, and this is more important:

Good god! Has anybody thought of the psychological implications of this? Anyone who's played enough FPS's and other frenetic action games knows that it's not uncommon to have these games infect one's dreams -- you go to bed at 4am after several hours of Q3 deathmatches, and sleep to the din of rockets and shotgun blasts running through your head.

Reinforcing every wrong move with an unpleasant electric shock cannot make this any better. This controller may make for better CS players, but it's inevitably going to produce a few hundred 'twitch' cases as well. Can't be good.

Imagine...

[CAIMLAS]

...getting hit by 5 rockets at close range with the ultra damage rune in UT, as opposed to getting hit with a Single Enforcer. Or maybe the Railgun with quad as opposed to the machine gun in Q3A. Ouch.

Personally, I'd not use this technology. I mean, really, even if it's not 'painful' it would fatigue bodily functions. Personally, I like being able to last as long as I can while fragging with my friends.

I mean, really, if you're going for as real an experience as possible, why not just skip the freaking games and go out in the back with a couple glocks and have at it. This is just silly.

-------
CAIMLAS

Smells like a hoax

[Monte]

This makes a lot of sense - an entertainment product that purposely delivers an unpleasant physical sensation to it's user without any supervision. No lawsuit bait there, naw...

I can't find anything on the Mad Catz site about this. I think we should replenish our salt grain inventory.

Did and Done

[Cylix]

My friend already did this...

He made some simple source changes to quake and some electrodes that sit on the mouse. There are several ports for arm straps, nipple clips and whatnot.

When you take damage, you take some electricity, it is quite painful. You eventually learn to not fight, but run instead. It really harms your game ;)

This was/is his senior project in college.

So, if they apply for a patent, we might have some prior art already.

Re:Link is not consistent

[gad_zuki!]

Also, it seems like the new method of cheating in those fully immersive massively-multiplayer environments will be simple -- don't put the electrodes on.

There's definately a group neurosis when it come to on-line gaming and cheating. I can't see how using this controller would make sense outside of a console. "Yeah dude, the controlled dropped out of my hands" can be just as verifiable as "Yeah I'm 18, hot, and ready for you stud!" Not all things are meant for the on-line experience.

How long before we see a pr0n application of this?

[MikeyNg]

Does anyone else see a potential pr0n application of this? Depending on where you place the electrodes, you could get some twitches in some interesting places. Add some streaming media to this, and look out! Where do I sign up?

The technology, called Bioforce, zaps players through electrodes on their skin when they've been hit in a combat game. It doesn't hurt, but at the highest setting a user's muscles will start to twitch. The first applications are expected to come through personal combat games.

Aura Interactor

[Animats]

The Aura Interactor was a previous step in this direction. It's a wearable subwoofer. Really feel that bass.

Nooooooooooooooo!!!

[legLess]

I went in for carpal tunnel testing last year, and this is exactly what it was like. They put sensors in various places on my forearm and upper arm, then shot electricity through my finger-tips to measure the nerves' resistance. Fucking hurt, too, and I couldn't pick anything up for the rest of the day.

Hmmm ... maybe once these things come out, some enterprising /. reader can reverse-engineer it (ala :::Cue:::Cat:::) to be a carpal tunnel testing device.

I got my ass kicked at Quake last night, but that damn Mad Catz controller said my nerve conduction was at 87% nominal. I don't understand it, man - I've been ice-packing for days just trying to get it over 85%, but it didn't help my game at all!"

Then we could create a mod to show nerve conduction next to ping. There'll be a black market in Multiple Schlerosis drugs and horse steroids as kids everywhere strive to get their conduction up 5%. FanBoi magazines will run articles, and for the first time in history vitamins will become popular amongst pasty white teenage game geeks, "This B6 complex increased my conduction, like, 1% last month, d00d! I'm saving up to buy the d-Alpha Tocopherol E next, man, that cut-rate d1-Alpha doesn't help much at all."

question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes

What about morons?

[mizhi]

You just know that some freaky moron is going to put those things on his nutz, sterilize himself, and then sue the pants of the manufacturer... =)

UT

[jeffy210]

So what would it do if you were telefragged?
------------------------------------ ---------------------------

It COULD be USEFUL

[Omerna]

If you can move the electrodes around- the picture shows them on the guy's arms- then You could put one on your left/ right sides, front and back. I'm not a big Quake player, so I don't know if this is true, but for a game like Counter-Strike direction of shots really counts. It's possible to turn around and kill the other guy if they're not using a really powerful gun. However, if you don't have multi-directional sound (or they have a silencer) this shock system would be REALLY helpful. (I know they sort of show you where the shots come from on the screen, but that doesn't help me much).

Even if they couldn't do this it would still be great. Anyone remember a Bond movie where he plays a game where you get shocked if something happens? Can't remember the details, but the concept is the same.
--------------------------------------

Link is not consistent

[localroger]

According to the article the controller uses voltages which aren't painful, so it's not like electroshock learning, where the whole point of getting shocked is that you want to avoid it happening again because it hurts.

The experience of friends who have used TENS and chiropractic electromassage equipment is that this kind of current will leave marks on the skin (and might not work at all) unless you use some fairly messy cream to ensure a good electrical connection.

Also, it seems like the new method of cheating in those fully immersive massively-multiplayer environments will be simple -- don't put the electrodes on.

Re:How long before we see a pr0n application of th

[localroger]

Where do I sign up?

news://alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.torture

Before Bond

[localroger]

There was an Avengers episode in which whatshisname was strapped in and forced to play an arcade driving game in which he got shocked at increasing voltage whenever he ran off the road. (The game itself was quite farfetched for its day, but hopelessly primitive by today's standards.)

It's not the voltage, it's the current

[localroger]

The human body has a fairly high electrical resistance. According to the article the current is limited to 16 mA, which is safe. It's at 20mA and above where a badly routed shock starts to seriously scramble your nervous system.

The voltage it takes to push that 20mA through your skin can vary wildly. Human beings do not conduct electricity very well, and if you play with an ohmmeter you will be able to get skin resistances ranging from a few K-ohms (especially with contacts placed near one another on damp skin) to megohms (with distant contacts on dry skin). It is theoretically possible to electrocute yourself with voltages as low as 40VDC, but it's not easy to do and requires very good electrode placement, skin conductivity, and a weak heart. I am assuming that the game controller uses voltages lower than this so that no matter where you put the electrodes you can't pass enough current through a sensitive enough part of your body to do serious mischief.

I'm sure they wouldn't dare sell this for such a trivial purpose if it weren't lawyer-proof. They must consider people who will put the electrodes on the wrong part of their body for whatever reason. (I predict this will be a hot seller to the S&M folks.)

Re:TK

[ZaneMcAuley]

hehe watch out for that ShockLance from the Tkers :D

Old news. This was a Spacewar mod.

[zauber]

See Brand's 1972 article on Spacewar! in the Rolling Stone:

Within weeks of its invention Spacewar was spreading across the country to other computer research centers, who began adding their own wrinkles. There was a variation called Minnesota Hyperspace in which you kept your position but became invisible; however if you applied thrust, your rocket flame could be seen.... Score-keeping. Space mines, Partial damage - if hit in a fin you could not turn in that direction. Then "2½-D" Spacewar, played on two consoles. Instead of being God viewing the whole battle, you're a mere pilot with a view put the front of your spaceship and the difficult task of finding your enemy. (Perspective could be compressed so that even though far away the other ship would be large enough to see.) Adding incentive, MIT introduced an electric shock to go with the explosion of your ship. A promising future is seen for sound effects. And now a few commercial versions of Spacewar - 25 cents a game - are appearing in university coffee shops. Steve Russell still dreams: "Something which I wanted to do is get some interesting sort of fleet action. There are some versions of Spacewar which allow two, three ships, but as far as I know no one has been sufficiently clever to set things up so there are ships with noticeably different characteristics that could fight in interesting combinations."

Wow, great stuff!

[Hungry Hungry Hippo!]

Now we get to play the fun games, and we get free electroshock therapy to prevent our hearts from turning dark in the dungeons of the Internet! (The same Internet which Al Gore invented, that subliminiinininbal bastard! ;)

Gory^WGlory be!

--

This seems like a bad idea

[ColGraff]

These electrodes may not be painful, but experiencing a muscle spasm severe enough to make you drop a controller certainly sounds uncomfortable. I for one would prefer not to suffer discomfort (other than carpal-tunnel syndrome, perhaps) when fragging some newbie after a long school day.