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Prevailing Against Michigan Censorship
mcneight writes: "In yet another battle for our rights online, the ACLU and 9 other plaintiffs have recently won a permanent injunction against enforcement of Michigan Public Act 33 of 1999 (The Child Online Protection Act). As the name suggests, it is net censorship with a pro-child happy face plastered on the front of it. Fortunately, the courts found it violated both the First and Fourteenth Amendments (protection of interstate commerce, in case you were wondering). Much greater detail is offered by the lead plaintiff in this case, Cyberspace Communications, Inc."
Moreover, I strongly believe that most childrens can stand a lot more than their parents believe.
Stephan
"Fuck" has the connotation it has because of our culture. Yes, I know culture is a very ambiguous word, and one us in the West may have a hard time grasping, but that's why. You were raised to think it was bad as was I, and, well, that's simplisticly what culture is.
Not that this means that there's a good reason for "fuck" to be somehow worse than any of the other fifty thousand expressions that mean the same thing.
As far as religion, there is nothing in my religion that says that "fuck" is bad. Taking God's name in vain isn't good, but that makes sense if you believe in the bloke, doesn't it?
The enemies of Democracy are
Many Americans get seduced by the mythology which surrounds their particular political bias. One such is that [republicans/democracts] support more free speech than [democrats/republicans], that [liberal/conservatives] uphold basic freedoms while [conservatives/liberals] are actively attacking every freedom except [one that isn't important to you].
The truth is that both parties are actively attacking virtually every freedom, whether it is the Republicans' War on Drugs virtually destroying the fourth amendment (but it's for our children!) or the Democrats destroying our freedom of speech (you can't say the n-word!). Or, for that matter, the Democrats destroying the fourth amendment (raiding and seizing the property of white supremescists because of the racists' asinine political beliefs) or the Republicans decimating our basic freedom of speech (the obscenity laws and laws restricting speech on the internet).
Both parties, and people of both liberal and conservative stripes, are equally guilty of trying to, and often succeeding in, abridging the constitution for the advancement of their own political and/or social agenda. The same BTW is true of the Libertarians, who would have the constitution stop at the borders of anyone's private property.
Until we couch our arguments firmly in the domain of freedom vs. restriction and constitutionality vs. unconstitutionality we will all be missing the point, and will continue to elect people to political office who trample all over the constitution whenever it suits them. This is unacceptable, and it is time we as voters began making that clear to candidates of all parties, conservative, moderate, and liberal alike.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Why do we have to have "net" laws???
there are countless laws already on the books that cover most any crime.. (Pedophillia? got laws for that.... let's use em!) all the supposed "problems" that we have with the internet already have laws, and can be enforced if they tried. The problem is shutting down the lawbreakers. You can raid a business and shove the trashbag in jail.. you cant do that to a russian narcophillia website... Unless you hire a internet police force that has a nice group of leet hackers that take the site down... (Oh gawd, lawlessness, evil and all that other jazz.)
Face it, do you as a citizen have the right to break down your neighbors door, ransack the house, and take what you think is bad? well the police do, so let's use that same analogy/tool to the net... Hackercops.... DDOS'ing the bad guys into submission...
Ok it sounds funny..... but something has to be done to give the current laws that work some bite in cyberspace..... (minuteman launches that target IP addresses???)
Dont censor, but give law enforcement the tools they need to uphold the law, otherwise we'll start having countries "unplug" from the net to protect the citizens. (Now we open more cans of worms... where does Country's law X override what is a protected freedom in Country Y?)
I say allow anything on the net.... cracking is legal, and DOS attacks are expected... It'll all sort out in the end or and up like the CB band.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
This isn't directed at you personally, but more as a general question: when did the Internet become expected to be a big kid-friendly space, full of rounded corners, cushiony floor mats, easy-to-grip building blocks, and nonthreatening ideas? The 'net was originally a batchelor pad for scientists - they did work over it, and they had fun over it, often fairly adult fun. Almost from the start the biggest electronic business on the 'net has been pornography and other adult-themed content that you can't get as easily in Real Life.
I'm always a little surprised that the newer, more easily-offended netizens react in this way. You've essentially moved into someone else's neighborhood, and now you're going to make the clean it up whether they like it like that or not? It seems like there's a strong streak of moral superiority and just plain yuppiehood involved here, one that residents of San Francisco, or any other area where the cheap historic districts are attracting new money at a record rate, will recognize.
Put plainly: where did you get the idea that the 'net was kid-friendly, that it was somehow going to become kid-friendly once you got on board, or that it was ever kid-friendly to begin with? Maybe you got online thinking that it was like the town square, but the 'net is really a bunch of twisty little passages (all alike) through the world's biggest library - you never know what you'll find in there. I'm sorry if AOL or Earthlink fooled you on that one, but you should really take that up with them, and leave the rest of us to our porn.
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Check out:
l dren/index.html
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2001/06/11/chi
Salon takes a look at the "protecting the children" mantra in the age of censorship. Very informative.
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
I found this writeup over at E2 amusing: Jesus doesn't care if you say the word "fuck".
--Begin--
Many Christians seem to believe that saying four letter words is a sin that makes the baby Jesus cry. It is surreptitiously implied that the Third Commandment, which prohibits taking the Lord's name in vain, is the source of this.
When it is spelled out like this, it is easy to see the fallacy. The Lord's name is not "fuck", even in Hebrew. Nor is the Lord's name "shit" or any other of the so-called 'bad words' that are frowned upon by so many. A thorough investigation of the Bible will reveal that there is no prohibition against these words, especially in English.
Ephesians 4:29 says "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." This seems to apply to things such as gossip, the Monica Lewinsky fiasco, and most of the Southern Baptist Convention, but more weight is given to cuss words than these others.
This leads one to believe that the Christian aversion to four letter words is based more on a desire to be sanctimonious rather than truly Christ-like. Jesus loves people who say "fuck" just as much as those who do not.
--End--
Ok, full disclosure. I wrote it.
- Rev.I found something interesting in the preliminary injunction. The judge is drawing his conclusions:
Wow! There's a federal judge that seems to think the Constitution says that we should all be able to surf and e-mail anonymously! I'd like the Constitution to say that, but I don't think it does.
--Happy Premise #3: Even though I feel like I might ignite, I probably won't.
Here's what I would love to see:
A full listing of every legislator and executive who passed a law that was subsequently shot down as unconstitutional.
The US Government put in place certain 'checks and balances.' Between each branch of government, an interaction takes place to ensure that the original standards of the government are kept in force.
The President may Veto unsavory bills.
The Congress may block Presidential appointments.
The President may appoint Judges.
The Congress may amend the Constitution.
The Judiciary may strike down laws that do not pass the Constitution's guarantees.
Surely it is the job of the Judiciary to perform this very important task, but why do we have to rely on them so much? Is it too much to ask for legislators who know what is constitutional or not? Most of them are lawyers by practice, they should understand the issues.
I'd love to see a roster listing the authors of legislation, and the executive who signed them into law, next to each law that has been struck down.
Start with the federal laws, and then get down to state laws for each state. Put lawmakers on notice: you have taken an oath to defend the Constitution from enemies abroad and at home. We demand an end to the erosion of basic rights well-established by our nation's founders.
[
--
So with that endorsement and knowing the general /. sense of perspective, I went and read the whole damn law (not that it was that long.) And it looked pretty good. There were specific exceptions carved out for the internet that seemd to aknowlege the lesser control site proprietors have over their traffic. For instance, while simple nudity is included in the original prohibitions, to get in trouble an internet server would have to provide obcinity (sp?) as defined (and presumedly legally upheld since its over 15 years old) in the MI laws. The overall law also does not penalize exposure to minors unless it was knowing, or if the proprietor showed reckless disregard in allowing minors access. Exceptions are made for health workers, schools AND LIBRARIANS.
As someone who is neither a puritan nor a libertarian, the law just looks like a reasonable attempt to bring internet providers into the same playing field as brick and mortar on this issue. If you oppose all those orriginal laws, just say so. But don't try to make this out as some evil and nefarious new thing.
Kahuna Burger
...will work for Chick tracts...
Am I to understand that you allow a three and five year old to surf the net unsupervised?
Here's a concept for you.... it's called PARENTING. Why not do a little?
Surf WITH your kids. (I do about 8 hours a week with mine)
Don't get the legislature to stomp on the 1st amendment just because you won't spend time with the kiddles.
Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...
It doesn't say "unless someone says 'cunt' in a rap song or 'nigger' on a college campus or to prevent the access of www.blowme.com by five-year olds.
Take risks! Accept Responsibility! Help put a lawyer out of work!
MAB
Words do not carry with them an inherent moral or ethical value. Words are words are words (ad infinitum). Context is everything. What is considered appropriate or not is solely based on social mores and folkways. To many the word "girl" is as demeaning and deragotory as the word "cunt." Legislating the use of language outside of context is intractable and stupid. But it makes the conservative (well, puritan maybe) voters happy. Since they vote, they get what they want.
Our obsession with politically correct speech has led to things like the cessation of correct use of the word "sex." We now (incorrectly) use "gender" to discern sex. Nouns have gender, people have sex. (Except for the afformentioned puritans.)
I can't get to the information becuase of &**%^%&^% filtering software (Bess, that b---!)
Scott Plumlee
Dear Judge,
I wish to turn myself in. I am in possession of a circumvention device which is in violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. As a human being, I was born with fingers. These devices, also known in some circles as digits, are capable of circumventing the Power Switch Content Protection measures that are installed on most computational devices, allowing me to gain access to information which I am not supposed to have.
I can no longer live with the guilt of knowing that I may someday break the law. Please, for the love of God, lock me up somewhere so that I won't hurt anyone or myself.
Insincerely,
Junior J. Junior III
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I find this doubly amusing becasue the most anticipated web launch of voyeruistic porn in the history of the internet was not the fake virgins who were going to deflower each other on camera, but Ken Starr's detailed report on Bill Clinton's sex life. It was published on the internet the moment it was available after a party line vote, republicans in favor of publishing it, democrats against. It may be just ascii, but it's potent- I certainly learned a thing or two about Altoids and cigars!
:)
I'll be at least over the hypocrisy issue once the folks who voted to publish the Starr report on the internet turn themselves in to the authorities. Then I'll start fighting to get them out on the grounds that they unconstitutionally imprisoned themselves
Bryguy
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
that being said, not all people believe in free speech. those who don't probably shouldn't join...
George Bush is on record as saying 'There should be limits to freedom'.
The case in Michigan is the purest example of this, and the reason why it's important to fight for the rights of individual speech, even if those rights are held by someone who is a raving nutbar.
The Michigan COPA pretty firmly tried to put the kibosh on the internet sex thing. A national version, such as what John Ashcroft, that judgemental prick, is harping about would face the same fight. "Put internet sex-peddlers in prison, for the sake of the children".
Okay, so they outlaw internet porn or make it so difficult to get to that it might as well have been outlawed. What's next? Outlawing internet literature? How about all that nasty 'slash' fanfiction out there. That's pornographic, right? How about the vast amount of R and X rated Anime fanfiction? (Guilty!: http://www.furinkan.net/fanfic) We can use the first law as a precident to set the second to outlaw explicit text on the internet. Then, how about any kind of webpage that could even vaguely be construed as 'obscene'? That's a pretty broad category, which just about anyone could put any thought, image, or speech they didn't like into. It's also one we're allowing our congress to try to outlaw over and over again.
Personally, I'd rather deal with racism, sexism, and/or religious intolerance than lose my freedom of speech to speak out against them.
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Join the ACLU: https://secure20.client-mail.com/aclulink/forms/jo in.shtml
Lawyers may grow on trees, but it costs at least $100 a day to go to the orchard.
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Looks like the judge had a good grasp of the practicalities of the situation, and a sense of humor as well.
If you can't beat them, embrace and extend them.
I'm so sick of the idea that everything in the world should be safe enough for a child to stumble over. Isn't that what supervision is for? to steer them around or away from things which aren't suitable. I don't let mine watch 18 rated films, read Clive Barker books or drink alcohol - doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to do it.
The problem of filtering in libraries is huge - why must the subject matter that can be accessed via the pc be suitable for all ages? do they only stock books that 5 year olds can read as well? why don't they just hook up a few pc's with DK software for the kiddies and leave the other machines alone for us.
blazing a trail for mediocrity...
Elementaly, social constraints on unacceptable speach are really pathetic Orwellian attempts to control ideas. As if there were no bad words there would be no bad thoughts, and without bad thoughts there are no bad deeds. The original poster of this thread must be commended on his choice of words. "Bleating", that perfects describes that actions of panicked sheep. He simplified the problem to one word. Telling too. But there are all manner of forbiden words, some of these conventions I even abide by. But when you look at a word and its origins the truth is almost too mundane to bother. But its the impact a word has in the moment we live we judge it by. A quick examination of racial slurs would show the truth in this. Does anyone take offence to the Spanish word for black? Or a corrupted for the latin word for black? Don't say those words around the wrong people. To some extent, theres good reason for that. Those words have an odd emotional componant which will color them for quite a while. One certainly cannot make the case that the emotional componant isn't at least somewhat justified, regaurdless of what real connection it has with the word. Is fukk more acceptable than fuck? What about the Vietnamise guy I know named Phuc? Does he have to change his name? For a long time I called him "Ummm...dude." (Turns out it's pronounced foo'k). It's all good, we're all big boys and girls. Of course our parents let us grow up to be something other than super-sized children....
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
> The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
...
God: So you liked Social Security?
Person: Uhh, yeah. I voted with that in mind.
God: Please tell me where I told you to take money from one person, evil or otherwise, and give it to others, evil, poor, lazy, down on their luck, or otherwise.
Person: Uhhh....
God: Did I say to give of your own will from your own effort?
Person: Uhh, yeah.
God: Where did I rescind the eighth commandment, "Thou shalt not steal?" Do I not even use the parable of a rich man and his money is his to do with as he wishes?
Person: Uhh, yeah.
God: So, what's your excuse?
Person:
God: I'm waiting...
Person: Uhh, everyone else was doing it.
God: Express elevator to Hell. Next!
Angel: Person #63,456,239,921 step forward! Sheesh, another "voter".
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
You know, when I first heard of this case, I honestly thought it was a joke. Like an April fools thing. Maybe I've grown up in a more enlightened setting, or maybe I'm just an ignorant crude redneck, but I honestly don't get it. Why do otherwise intelligent adults (yes, this is often debatable :) get so worked up over a couple of words? Think the TBS version of The Breakfast Club. They must say 'flip you' a hundred times. I know what they mean, 8-year old kids know what they mean, hell.. my 92-year old Grandmother knows what they mean. And yet... putting the letters F U C K together as a word would do ... what exactly?
I've never in my life found a compelling argument over why 'we' label some words as 'bad', and not others. Beyond 'I was raised to think the f-word is bad', or religious reasons, I've never once heard of why.
Let's face it - we eventually realize that our parents aren't the supreme authority on the universe, and most people beyond the staunchest zealot tend to question at least some of the established religious dogma. Why precisely do we still have this fixation with our language?
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
The concept of swearing being "bad" is just so, so arbitrary that it pisses me off. It's as if someone, a long time ago, thought "Hey, people are feeling too good about themselves... I think we need more rules to place on people's lives... what haven't we restricted yet? Hmm... Oh, I've got an idea: let's pretend that some words that you can form with our alphabet are bad and tell people that it's immoral to utter them! Hehe. Yeah, that oughta get 'em going for a while! Quick! Spread the word! In the name of morality!"
Stupid, stupid control freaks, controlling for the sake of it.
But certainly I don't want my kids whipping it out in front of their teacher and saying "suck my fat one" or something... that seems a bit over the line, since I don't want myself to do it either. But my kids should be able to say anything that I can say.
Music speeds up when you yawn, but does not change pitch.
Now my kids will be exposed to all of the filth the Internet has to offer.
Better that than "unrestricted censorship" in the future! Or, as Mike Godwin put it:
"I worry about my child and the Internet all the time, even though she's too young to have logged on yet. Here's what I worry about. I worry that 10 or 15 years from now, she will come to me and say 'Daddy, where were you when they took freedom of the press away from the Internet?'" --Mike Godwin, Electronic Frontier Foundation (from the FreeNet-Project's web page)
It always struck me as strange that we Americans can justify neatly overthrowing one of our basic tenets of freedom simply by waving our hands and muttering something vauge about "protecting the children." Of all the tests of free speech, why do we fixate on one of the most pointless? Real free speech would demand that, should a neo-Nazi demagogue come along, we grit our teeth and support their right to talk. But let's ignore that thorny issue for awhile and focus on our children, who will surely be hellbound if they hear any cussin'.
Seems to me that there's no such thing as a conditional freedom. At the risk of sounding like I'm making a false either/or proposition, either speech is free -- whether or not we like what is said -- or it's not. Freedom is one of those places where there is no middle ground. Any restriction on freedom does it in.
That said, I think it's time that we Americans either live up to the promise we made ourselves, or we set aside our smug claims to freedom as just so much outdated, naive dreaming. I know which I prefer, even though it will mean protecting hate speech, corporate advertising (as long as we buy into the myth of corporate personhood), and yes, even forcing our children to listen to words we don't like.