Slashdot Mirror
On the Question of Handhelds: iPaq Best?
A reader writes "I've been wanting to get a Linux based handheld, and was
trying to decide between an iPaq and a Yopy. This article about the Yopy
has pretty well convinced me the iPaq is the way to go, but I'm
hoping some /.ers might have some additional insight before I drop
a bit of serious cash. I'm a poor student, and can't afford to make
a mistake here."
I seriously considered an iPaq but ended up getting a palm, and (half a school year later) I'm happy I made that choice. iPaq's are nice devices, color screen, etc.... but think: what are you going to be doing that requires color? Furhtermore, what are you going to be doing that REQUIRES Linux? Palm's are easy to write apps for in Linux or any other OS, and they're much cheaper (= more money for that upgrade you've wanted). I got a Palm m100 handheld for $150 and a keyboard for $100. I found that even writing fast enough to give me a cramp wasn't fast enough for handwriting recognition, it's due to the limited space available on a screen. If you're going to be taking notes (like I do with my Palm), you'll NEED a keyboard. The Palm one works perfectly. Seriously, when you consider that Palm's have a perfectly good notepad-ish application for typing, and a spreadsheet app can be purchased for ~$30, you've got a computer that's every bit as good at taking notes as a iPaq for I'm not going to be changing the way I take notes (or at least I'm not planning on it), and my Palm's put up with nearly a year of abuse with no signs of wear. I'm finishing my freshman year of HS now, and I'm planning to use my Palm all the way through University. It's that good. Tim
- You can't press more than one button at a time. This makes gaming nearly impossible.
- The speaker "clicks" as the little amplifier turns on whenever it needs to make a sound; This is probably a WinCE thing, so hopefully the linux driver folks will make it configurable.
- Dust inside the screen. Seems to happen to everyone - it happened to me, I'm just living with it.
- Weird expansion capabilities. You can add a Smart Media or Compact Flash slot, but the sleeve you need to get to do so makes the iPaq quite a bit bigger, and you can only have one sleeve at a time.
I'd recommend it.. but maybe it's safer to buy it from somewhere like Radio Shack that will let you return it if you decide you really don't like it. - SteveMuch more useful than an iPAQ which seems to be very hardly supported under Linux
Much not very informed opinion, since Compaq, until recently, maintained the "hh" reference port of Linux for the iPaq, and more recently changed the reference port to one of the community ports (Freedom?) since they were a little farther along. Everything in the iPaq is supported under Linux. The sound is supported, the handwriting recognition is supported. There are ports of things like Perl and Python, and it all runs under X.
You're talking about communication tools for the Palm on Linux. Big freaking deal. We're talking about running Linux on the iPaq. Natively. Who needs comm tools to transfer software downloaded from who-knows-where when you can fire up the TCP stack and telnet to your main box where your cross-compiler is to FTP up new programs?
Compaq supports Linux to the extent that they will replace your iPaq if you turn it into a brik while trying to flash the Linux update onto it. They, of course, would rather you didn't do this, but the option is there. And there are just as many apps for Linux as there are for Palm.
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
Yes, someone ported Linux to the Palm.
However, Compaq ported Linux to the iPaq. This is the corporate support that everyone complains about there not being for such-and-such hardware everywhere. Compaq has essentially not only "released the drivers", but the source code for the drivers, and the optimized OS to go with the drivers.
See above - I'm a UNIX admin, and would rather have UNIX tools available, since that's what I do for a living. Not only that, but Compaq is gettting right up there with IBM in corporate supprot for Linux, and I feel that if I am going to spend the money, then I want to spend it on a company that supports the things I use. Besides, the iPaq has all the other features I wanted, too (Color, sound, PCMCIA expandability). The Linux thing is just a bonus.
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
I also hesitated about a PDA... then opted for a Palm...
You can find Palm tools (jpilot) under Linux, Palm Dev Tools (for free), Palm Emulator (to test your dev)...
Much more useful than an iPAQ which seems to be very hardly supported under Linux.
If it's using Linux to support Free Software, I'll remind you that buying an iPAQ will profit to Micro$oft (WinCE is ALWAYS preinstalled, evn if you plan to use Linux on it).
(I do own a Palm. Support for it under Linux is great... never unpacked the CD-ROM they give with it... and there are many apps for Palm, of all kind)
As the former webmaster of www.yopy.org, I have to tell you to get an iPAQ. It's not at all clear that the G.Mate people understand how open source should work; not true for the Compaq CRL people led by Jim Gettys (insert impeccable credentials here). The iPAQ doesn't require that you have a CF sleeve if you don't need one. Yeah, it's got some design problems. But all-around, it's just so nice that you gotta have one.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Despite being less powerful, I have yet to run out of memory on the thing, even though I have quite a few useful apps on it such as BigClock, AvantGo, DiddleBug and a dozen or so ebooks.
Personally, I'd like an iPaq to fiddle with but I don't see why I should splash out a large amount of money for one when I already have a PDA which does its job so well.
You have just stumbled upon what is perhaps the most useless question you can possibly ask when buying computer technology.
iPaq, Palm, Yopy, whatever... In a year and a half, you will want something better, and will be able to buy something better with the change you find in your sofa.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
This isn't directly related to the article, but it is a key question I think must be answered. What prevents you, exactly, from releasing OpenSource programs for Windows CE? (or Windows for that matter?)
I do it all the time. There is a fairly strong Windows OpenSource community, and we get nothing but disrespect from our OSOS-using bretheren. If you want to preach the benefits of Open Source to the masses, you can't afford to be a platform bigot.
-- russ
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
"I'm a poor student, and can't afford to make a mistake here."
It's perfect! All slashdotters believe you must own a PDA, even if you are a "poor student". They'll make suggestions til the cows come home, never once asking "why not just buy a notepad and a pencil".
Very good troll.
--
324006
I wouldn't get either. I am currently looking at getting a HandEra 330. It runs PalmOS and has both a CF and SD sockets on the top. (It supports a 1GB Micro Drive, hmm...1GB on a Palm) Yes, it is only gray, but I don't like having to change or charge batteries every day. Gray Palms runs for about 1 month on 2AAAs. The HandEra take 4AAAs and weighs about .2 ounces more than a IIIx. There is a option comming out this summer for a Li Ion battery. It also has the same dimensions and connectors as a III series so you have a ready supply of cheap accessories.
I have a Palm Vx and it kills the likes of the iPaq as personal organiser. It's lighter, smaller, has a much longer battery life, is much cheaper, handwriting recognition is good and the organiser apps are great. All these add up to a more convenient accessible device.
I've recently found my Agenda to be very usable after all the work that's gone on. You can get a pretty good deal with the developer model as well. See http://www.agendacomputing.com/ for the mostly finished site. See http://developer.agendacomputing.com/ for the developer deal, and see http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~acedil1/agenda/ for more information about the community supporting it.
1. Battery life. Not having a color display, 16mb ROM, 32mb RAM, 200+mhz CPU, etc. means that the batteries last a lot longer in the Palm.
2. Application choices and size. Palm apps tend to be very compact because, unlike WinCE, the Palm OS is only as complicated as it needs to be and no more so. If the apps are small, you don't need 32MB of RAM to store them. Palm apps are widely available and have been developed for years.
3. Price. While I can easily afford a $600 handheld, it's more than I want to spend. If my $150 Palm breaks, I replace it and throw the old one away. If a $600 iPaq breaks, I'm going to have to get it fixed and be without it while it is being serviced.
4. Basic functionality. The Palm does what I need. I can use it for note-taking. I can store addresses and phone numbers in it. I can use it for an alarm clock, calculator, or handheld game machine (I like chess, go, Othello, and other board games). While I could play action games on the iPaq, I have a real computer for that.
Neither the Palm nor the iPaq devices will substitute for a laptop or desktop computer. You can develop apps on them (with great pain). You can, in a pinch, use them for e-mail. But they just aren't real PCs. When people are demanding 14" and larger screens in laptops, it's pretty clear that the 3" screen in a handheld is no substitute.
In closing, decide if you need a handheld. Figure out what you will use it for. If you are like most people, the Palm devices will suit your needs fine. And you probably won't need color, either.
Fortunately for the developer community, Young Hoon Kim, a G.Mate programmer, ported X to the YOPY and made it available "unofficially." Finally, giving up trying to hold back water, G.Mate agreed an X environment would become the new base installation for the YOPY, dumping W Windows. In addition, a 2.4.x kernel would be made available, largely based on the work done by the Handhelds.org group.
/. last time. He's doing a good job to steer G.Mate getting back on right track. The problems with YOPY is that they don't know what makes a Linux handheld different. The following paragraph gave you an answer.
/. /    |\/| |\/| |\/| / Run, Bill!
I submitted Young Hoon Kim's interview to
This shift in direction demonstrates (again) that introducing an incompatible technology without strong justification just won't work. Particularly amongst open/free programmers, no one is willing to invest in your new technology unless its worth their time. While W may be faster than X on a 206-MHz machine, is it worth the loss of compatibility? Empirically, NO!
See that NO? The key is to have an open platform PDA. G.Mate didn't see it before. That's the reason why it worth our time waiting, regardless of the fact that it's coming late.
If you want a consumer product, go for iPaq. It's there and it's good; but open source developers probably won't be interested in writing for CE.
Of course, unless your intention is to hack this iPaq like in Embedded Debian project; but then again, you've to pay for a preinstalled Windows CE.
 _
First: don't do palm, unless you want flawless scheduling, calendaring, contact listing, memo writing and a host of quick apps. Palm has vastly inferior processor speeds, very low upgradability and an OS that, while quick, lacks any real power to go beyond the 64k Personal Organizer level of functionality. In short, if you want neat, programmable, full colour, true internet & wireless networking -- in essence, a real computer in your pocket -- don't go palm.
Second -- don't go iPaq if you plan on using your organizer mostly indoors. The screen is just awful, though it excels outside. Me, I went Casio for the screen -- true 64k colour plane, beautifully backlit, and slightly larger than the iPaq -- but I can't see shit outside during the day. I have to duck under awnings when on the street, but luckily, i'm almost never on the street. Casio has great upgradability -- slip on an adapter and a wavelan card, you've got a wireless network. Slip in a compact flash modem, you're on the 'net from a hotel room. Connect to your cell over IR, and you're netted again. Memory, cameras, hard disks, all sorts of stuff is in the compact flash form factor, and unlike the iPaq you don't need a seperate sleeve to have the functionality -- there's a little door that hides your card when it's not plugged into the wall.
Of course, Casio was just my choice, and a lot of people will lead you to the iPaq for its slightly faster processor (hint: it doesn't really matter...my casio E-100, their first colour unit, does mp3 and mpeg well enough, and it's only 133 MHz). But I think the great screen, and the ability to push more than one button at once (the Compaq won't let you do this...kills gaming in MameCE) outweigh the slight advantage of the StrongARM.
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