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Internet2 Update
fm6 writes "The MIT Technology Review has done a status report on Internet2, the bandwidth-intensive sequel to the Internet. What's really exciting is the way people are already using this technology: virtual nanomanipulation, online surgical procedures, even telepresence opera. Lots of interesting links."
they could've called in Naked Internet 2.5. I'm sure that would attract more users.
Nanomanipulation? Virtual surgery? The only thing that could keep I2 alive is pr0n. And lots of it.
so now I can suck down the entire contents
Yeah, right. If there's more bandwith, there will be more spam to sift through, and more articles to pull. And, that will only add to the missing parts. Unless there's a curve, you're unlikely to ever get a full feed.
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Have you read my journal today?
Two reasons that won't happen:
The technology is going to migrate to the normal internet, so the normal internet will be able to do all of this. The main difference right now is that the people on Internet2 have really good connections to it, while the people on the Internet generally don't. But they'll get good connections to the regular Internet, not good connections to Internet2.
The Internet grew so much for largely cultural reasons: people who had been on it in research and academic contexts left those contexts, but wanted to maintain their ties. So they figured out ways to get internet connections from other sources. Soon, the people they knew from other contexts wanted to interact the same way, and everyone was getting online. This won't happen with internet2, because everyone on it is likely to be on the normal internet. They'll just use that once they leave, possibly bringing their applications over if they can get the bandwidth.
After all, Internet2 is essentially the same thing as the regular internet, except with only two backbones and few non-experimental programs.
If ever a line needed to be preserved, say as someone's sig file...
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Not for those of us who worked at stations where the network news and the high school football games were piped to the studio over lines leased from the telephone company.
Also, years ago (pre-WWII) there were juke boxes where you chose your selection and it was played at a remote location and sent to your location over a telephone line.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
QoS (quality of service) is not just about giving one class of traffic priority over another - you typically allocate a guaranteed share of bandwidth to each class, and in some cases limit the maximum usable by one class.
Also, QoS only currently works on private IP networks - there is no way of billing QoS traffic used to a user or content provider at present in the Internet, and this is unlikely to happen given that QoS has taken a long time to take off even in private networks.
Each customer of a service provider offering a QoS service buys a certain amount of Voice, Premium, Standard and Best Effort traffic (to use some common names for classes of service) for each site, e.g. 1 Mbps of Voice and 2 Mbps of Premium for their New York office. The provider won't let them send more than 1 Mbps of traffic from that site marked as Voice, i.e. it 'polices' the traffic against the customer contract for that site.
This means that any QoS abuse would be limited to that customer's QoS service, and would have NO extra impact on the network compared to normal customer usage of QoS.
If you have proper security, both email abuse and QoS abuse can be prevented - since QoS abuse would be much more costly to the customer (by stopping business applications from working over the network), it would be stamped on much more quickly. But, like voicemail and toll fraud, it will probably always happen - it's a question of preventing as much as possible, and detecting and stopping it as quickly as possible when it does happen, as Bruce Schneier has been saying for a while.
It already is. It's called college. :-)
Yeah, you seem to be right. http://www.internet2.edu/ipv6/.
When exactly did it become a requirement that the US include other counties in every research project it does? Quit whining, you'll still benefit from the results eventually.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Just wait. The New England Journal of Medicine has an upcoming interview with the groundbreaking gynocologist, Dr. F. Diddler.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
You don't need Interenet2 for that. I've gotten speeds of over 350 kB/s (that's 2800 kb/s, or 2.73 Mb/s) on my cable modem. Still, that is a nice speed.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
And you think the spam is bad now? From the article:
It doesn't matter what criteria are used to decide what's high-priority, spammers will find a way to abuse it. All of their email will suddenly become "absolutely the highest priority ever," squashing yours, and if some rules like "real-time video takes priority over email" are tried, well, now you have television commercials squashing out oeverything else.
Give high-priority rights to select organizations like hospitals? Only works until the professional spammers buy their way in, or just flat out forge the keys.
Sorry, I'm in a bad mood right now. Just got more spam. There isn't a single useful thing that we in the CS community can come up with that some cocksucking marketer can't abuse.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
VBNS is just one peered network that makes up Internet2. vBNS is actually being phased out, since its mostly obselete. Abilene is the future. As for it being a "floor model", I can very much assure you that Internet2 is alive, active, and growing. I know this because I work for Internet2.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
Internet2 is a research network. Its network engineers are developing the technolgies that will one day be used on the public Internet. The fruits of the Internet2 project will be seen by the adoption of its technolgies by the public Internet, but the networks that make up Internet2 will be private for as long as there is the funding to keep it so.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
WHat I really want to know is how many Rocket Arena 3 servers are on it?
I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
Internet2 has arrived. Time to invest in those hot teledildonics stocks.
What I use I2 for:
Quake 3 Arena.
I'm told that wool fibres are very poor at getting speeds above a typical dial-up connection. Hemp fibres reportedly max out at sub-ISDN speeds. ;)
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
The Dutch president of the National Aviation Board: Dr. Brick.
<grub> Reading
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Readers of a UK bent might be interested in the latest upgrade to JANET, the Joint Academics Network. This is the primary backbone supplier to (all?) Universities and (some) Further Education Colleges in the UK.
SuperJANET4 currently has a 2.5Gbps SDH optical backbone, rising to 20Gbps in 2002 using DWDM. At various points across the contry are JANET Connection Points (JCPs) to which Metroplitan Area Networks (MANs) are connected: these MANs then supply the universities with bandwidth. These MANs are being upgraded in concert with JANET - the London MAN, as an example, is moving to a 2.5Gbps backbone, with 100Mbps feeds to individual universities.
QoS was a key factor in designing the network and thus the routers chosen (Cisco 12016s and 12008s) support Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) (see RFC 2702 for why this is good for QoS) amongst other QoS features.
JANET's link to the rest of the internet is being upgraded too, with 2.5Gbps of external bandwidth and 622Mbps transatlantic bandwidth - to Internet2.
In the past, the UK academic community has been on the ball with internetworking - from the invention of packet-switched data networks (1967) and the first ARPAnet node outside the US at University College London (1974) to one of the earliest and largest (and still very large) deployments of web caching with Squid (the JANET webcache). Not to mention that the web was invented by a British academic... (although he was working in Switzerland at the time... does that count? :p )
If only our commercial managers were as bright... then we wouldn't have The Great British Broadband Farce. :)
Hmmm, now can I steal 802.11 wireless from my local university? I'm sure they'd never notice now
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Actually, it is quite realistic to get some optical fibers in the house around here now, and I'm considering it.
It will require a fair amount of digging ditches, and you wouldn't want to dig ditches too often, so I have to make sure that what I put in those ditches won't need to be upgraded for many years to come.
So, pretending this is "Ask Slashdot", what are the pitfalls?
Are there certain types of fibre I should stay away from, certain things that would prohibit me from going higher than say, 100Mbits/s, or certain things that will make the physical infrastructure incompatible with everything else?
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
Oh, that's really great! I've been at that site three times (the NOT), and the net connection from the mountain is really bad. It sure needs a lot of improvement. I know they've had some tests where the NOT has been remotely controlled, but it is not for mainstream use. The problem is that you sometimes need to download the picture at once after readout to decide what you should do for the next exposure, but on a slow connection, you will waste a lot of very valuable observing time waiting for an image to download. A typical image is 2048x2048 pixels, 16 bits, pluss header information. Hope we get a bit of that bandwidth the GTC is getting... :-) I've been on the construction site when it was just being dug out.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
You're just on a fast connection with good peering. You can buy those from major ISPs now, and have been able to for years...
sulli
RTFJ.
I2 is great... biggest problem is the chicken/egg thing: we need bandwith to do stuff (major use so far, for us (college in midwest)(teleconferences & tele-classess) but the state doesn't want to give us funding for bandwith because we don't use what we have.
Politicians don't understand that it isn't a matter of how much bandwith you use, it's how much you need to have avaiable to do certain things.
Typical quote: "Just look you guessed only used 5% of your bandwith last month." Yeah, but when we use it, we use it ALL!
Sigh. Anyway, I2 is great. People are just really getting turned on to the possibilities. Me, being on the technical side of things, where I use to make a phone call and talk to other universities about major technical problems/issues, now we get together and have teleconferences.
Then we'll realize that the bottleneck is the servers themselves:
I work as a System Management Unit leader for one of the biggest Swiss companies.
I administer big -public oriented- servers which have to handle hundreds/thousands? Of https simultaneous connections.
I just consider how responsive some of our Top End (E10K, HP, AIX) servers are during the rush hours (whether I access these with my home cable connection or from the company's local - Gigabyte - network, I hardly see any difference...)...
If they want to make it faster, then they'll have to upgrade all the servers, replace the Broadvision shit with some real application framework, replace the Frontpage coders with professional coders who know how painful it si to connect through a 2400bauds modem and then they might get something.
When we'll be on the Internet2, we might not notice any real difference under strict conditions until the providers themselves upgrade.
Maybe they'll have to wait some more to make it carry television streams or voice/IP.
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Trolling using another account since 2005.
That's OK - I'm anal as well - I'd even say thank you, if Slashdot allowed us to make spelling corrections to previous posts...
BTW, interesting Sig. I forget the terms from logic, but is the corollary that if someone's sig is intellegent, that they are intellegent?
Just look - Internet2 is restricted to academics and researchers, just like the old Internet was restricted to universities and government researchers. It's being used for collaboration and "what-if" scenarios, and most that are currently involved have a good idea who the others are. They are even practicing high culture, trying out live colaborative opera.
And in a few years, it will be opened up to the public. It will become 3-D Porn, obnoxious teenagers who can't spell, bad music being traded all around, pop-up adds with full symphonic sound, and all the original users will complain about all the newbies...
But they also have the lessons learned over the last 15 years or so of the commercial internet...
The folks that turned the web over to the world probably had no idea what would happen. Who would have thought that pretty pictures and design would be more important than content? That marketers would plague the web with spam, banner ads, and pop-ups? Who would have guessed that it would eventually have to carry live video? Who would have predicted the backlash against blinking text?
They can watch the original Internet, and plan a little to make sure they encourage good uses and discourage bad ones. For instance, they are optimizing it so "important" things get transfered more reliably than "unimportant" things, and are trying to make it work before the world gets it's hands on it.
Just a few of the possible areas for improvement:
Smarter IP addressing, both for increased number space and to help out routers (geographically based top-level numbers?)
Basic Protocols that are written assuming hacking attempts rather than optimized for sharing information
Priority transmission for time-critical applications (such as surgery).
Low-level broadcast protocols.
Micro- or Macro-payment support.
Better business models by design.
Your favorite extension here
I, for one, think it's a good thing - develop the next generation, in a real prototype state, get it 95% there, then unleash the world on it. When that's done, start on the next next-generation Internet.
We need reasons to buy more expensive hardware, anyway...
That's the last thing I want to try out. Just imagine the outcome after the first DOS attack, or when the idiot construction workers cut the backbone. Why do people insist on touting never-before-attempted-and-completely-irresponsibl e-and-idiotic uses for new technology?
That's a pretty good firewall, it prevents evil h4x0rs from damaging the equipment by overheating with those dangerous infrared files.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
There isn't a single useful thing that we in the CS community can come up with that some cocksucking marketer can't abuse.
i need that on a t shirt. maybe for the next meeting i have with the pr team.
--saint----
Of course that doesn't take into account the geographical separation of the human species and that the chromatic dispersion increases dramatically over even short distances. All 6.5B of us would have to live within a few kilometers of each other. Too crowded for my taste. More can be found at SciAm and at a previous Slashdot story
The article clearly states that the I2 was (is being?) built from the start to be simpler than the current internet. It's a rebuild, not an upgrade. A replacement more than an enhancement. Cisco had to create new routers for it. The backbone uses completely new high-bandwidth wiring, which I suppose could be used on the current internet, but would be overkill. Most machines on the I2 have a direct connection to the backbone or a special high speed intermediary connection. These are different than the current direct connections to the internet. Please read the article before trolling.
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Developers: We can use your help.
You've got to be kidding me. There's an astronomer named "Telesco"? I'm surprised they didn't interview a chemist named Fred Hydrocarbo.
RW
In the article it mentions that they plan to bring this to elementary schools...aren't there others who need it just a teensy bit more? While I understand that there are large educational opportunities here, I think we need to worry about every college & highschool having it before we even start to think about giving it to grade schoolers.
Pretty soon little Bobby is going to come home and announce that he has a better internet connection at school than his dad, who is a M$ employee, has at work.
If it's supposed to move and doesn't, use WD-40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
So yeah, should be amusing to see when THIS will be available.....
Old age and treachery almost always overcome youth and skill.
I'm very proud to notify you that here in Brazil we are also using internet, not only for teleconference, but also to telepresence. Including medical telepresence, experiences with surgical telepresence, and also multimedia transmition. All with colaboration with Brazilian and foreing colleges and universities(including american ones)
It's very nice to see Brazilian technologies walking side by side with the world.
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I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
Though these backbones are similar to those on the commercial Internet, only about three million users can access Internet2, versus several hundred million on the public Net.
Almost all the benefit (including the workability of QOS) comes from the fact that they have limited who has access to the network and thus have a much higher signal-to-noise ratio. It's the internet culture of the late nineteen eighties, running on the hardware of the early two thousand naughts.
-- MarkusQ
I hope that the Internet2 is to the Internet what ESPN2 is to ESPN... More Xtreme!
But then again, sequels usually suck.
I wonder, will the new set of protocols governing this new network allow for more security protection than is current in today's world of TCP and UDP?
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
I failed to find any hard data regarding the speed of Internet 2, but I have been told that the FUNET-network in Finland is already as fast as Internet 2 is, and has been for some time now.
http://www.csc.fi/suomi/funet/verkko.html.enLesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
...the way people are already using this technology: virtual nanomanipulation...
Ahh, but how's the virtual tittymanipulation? What else is the net good for but bomb recipes and yak pr0n?
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
Internet2 is great and I have no doubt that it'll have a serious impact on daily life, but the cost to roll out something like that to the general public is outrageous. We, John.Q.Public, will be using the plain old Internet for a while. That's why I have more interest in technologies like Dense Wave Division Multiplexing, that help us out in our current infrastructure and consequently will impact us in the home much sooner than the UberNet this article talks about.
Oh, fyi, since I mention it, here's where you can find more about DWDM:
http://www.ericsson.com/technology/DWDM.shtml
http://www.atmdigest.com/WDMResources.htm
http://www.iec.org/tutorials/dwdm/
Tom
-Tom