Slashdot Mirror
Ion Storm Reorganizes
An Anonymous Coward writes: "GameSpyDaily is reporting that both John Romero and Tom Hall are leaving Ion Storm. Most of the Dallas office has been laid off as well. Warren Spector is now in charge. The remains of Ion Storm in Austin are still working on Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3."
A typo, sue, no problem.
Too typos? Okay, we cam still deal with that.
Thre? Okay, no wwe are getting a oittle out of hand.
In the same word?? Oh my goffnesa!
Okay, let me get this straight. Not only did you flip the 'e' and the 'i', but you also used an 'r' instead of an 'f'. The word is five letters long. You screwed up more than half of them. That is pret-ty sad.
This wouldn't have happened if they had added more frogs.
I'd argue that Doom did well because it was just plain fun. Isn't that the reason most people play games?
Sigh. Too many people worry about how high a framerate a game can achieve, or how detailed an explosion is, or how many gallons of virtual blood spill out of a freshly-dead enemy soldier. Why can't most game designers make games that are just fun?
So what's next? Dunno, but there is the matter of those domain name registrations. I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking Monkey Stone would be Tom's choice. I hear primates are the in thing for developer names these days anyhow...
Good luck, guys.
Yeah, after Daikatana was wrapped up (about a year ago), there was basically nothing to do in Dallas but help out on Anachronox (to whatever extent was possible that late in the project). Maybe things were just up in the air all that time over what to do. Go figure.
You know, considering that Big Ape (a LucasArts spinoff) seems to have been the first in this particular trend, that sounds about right.
Dear God, no. Despite that they moved into perhaps the nicest office in Dallas (and you can see for miles and miles up there since everything's so flat), it's still Dallas. More power to everyone who likes living in Dallas, and it may just be because I'm from California, but I never cared for the place. It probably didn't help that I got there in August during a 98%-humidity heat wave. Bad first impression. But the city also didn't seem that friendly, interesting or active to me.
Not having been in Texas before, I thought it might be nice to hop over to Austin for a day on the weekend. Then I checked the scale on the map -- doh! Let's just say it's more than a hop away...
John Romero & Tom Hall started ION Storm in Dallas for the single reason of making those two games. They each had a vision of one game they wanted to make, and now that Anachronox is finally finished, it's done.
If they were looking to make ION Dallas last longer, then perhaps they shouldn't have sold out to Eidos.
They way I see it, it's all perfectly logical. Too bad they have to ditch the really nice office though...apparently the Dallas offices were pretty high-class, perhaps a bit too much so. Oh well.
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
I was a bit confused when I followed the GameSpy link and the first thing I saw was a blurb about Iron Storm...
until I scrolled down a bit and found the actual Ion Storm item...
Bet the Iron Storm guys are getting a few more hits than they expected today...
Nope. Not just a first impression. The whole of Texas is a blasted wasteland, with the conspicuous exception of Austin, which is a great town.
Lived in Dallas for almost 20 years...can't wait to graduate college and move to, well, Alaska or somewhere. Somewhere with a WINTER.
-another transplanted Californian
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Apparently Romero and Hall are keeping a few people on payroll while they try to build a new company. There was also a rumor that Romero was talking to Eidos about buying the rights to the Ion Storm name back from them. (presumably to use for his new company)
Ion Storm Austin has always been it's own autonomous unit so I dont think this will hurt them at all.
Darth -- Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
Probably because what is 'fun' is not a very concrete thing. If you have a game which isn't fun, what would you change to make it fun?
After the sheer number of horrors that came out of there - both PR and game - I'd expected Romero's time to be limited. Daikatana was, I think, just the final blow. Most of their games were either fatally flawed or just out of date.
The only think you can really say is:
Reality just made John Romero its Bitch.
----
Brazil has decided you're cute.
For those of us who emphasize gameplay over tech, I recommend Hamumu Software. And if you don't like gameplay over tech, I WILL PUNCH YOU IN THE NOGGIN!
------------------------
Co-founder of GerbilMechs
Almost all of the top-rated articles as I write this contain some kind of joke about such-and-such being made John Romero's bitch, or vice-versa. I guess I missed something somewhere, would some kind soul fill me in?
Thanks.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
>> I guess this is a good indication of the status of the gaming industry, and how risky it is.
;-) (Yes I love Q3, but taking a break from TeamPlay for a while)
> This is a troll, right?
Why are you wrongly accusing the parent of being a troll?!
The gaming industry has ALLWAYS been a risky industry. Don't take my word, but ask other game developers. They will tell you the same thing:
If a "sequel"/clone doesn't offer enough new features people won't buy it. If it diverges too far with new ground, it also won't sell well.
i.e.
- Look at the shooters. Same old game ( & still lots of fun!) but it is STILL the same old "game"
- Look at hack-n-slashers. Diablo 2 and EQ offer nothing "new" -- they are both the standard hack-n-slashers. (Lots of fun multiplayer, but REPETITIVE/same-old gameplay)
The game industry is partly about marketing. There is a reason why Diablo 2 has sold over a million copies. Blizzard was hyping their game for a FULL year before Diablo 2 was out. If a game developer can't afford marketing, then they will have a MUCH harder time "making it big" (Exceptions being a developer with a proven track record and everyone buys their stuff regardless *cough Quake 3 cough*
Cheers
> Who needs 15 buttons on a joy stick or a WHOLE keyboard (mech warrior 4) to play a damn game! ;-)
Get a Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D joystick - only 8 buttons -- all you need for multiplayer
> Oh well. I'll just pull out my Apple ][ I guess.
Hear, Hear !
My favorite Apple ][ games (Using * to designate ones that I still love playing)
* Rescue Raiders (Armor Alley on the PC sucked)
* Aquatron
* Wings of Fury
* Gemstone Warrior
- Goonies
* Lode Runner (& Championship LR)
- Ultima Series (1 - 5)
- Lady Tut
- Karetaka (Had just as much fun ripping the music hehe)
- Bruce Lee
Thx god for ApplePC ! (It even has mockingboard support!)
P.S.
Feel free to add your own to the list !
> I challenge you to identify a single FPS made in the last three years that has been hugely successful (financially - I don't really care whether you liked it or not) without multi-player capability.
:) and Max Payne (which just went gold. It has enough "cool" elements that it will be BIG.)
Thief (it's successful enough that they are doing the 3rd version
> But when it comes to running around with a first-person viewpoint and shooting the crap out of people -- AI sucks.
I wholeheartly agree. The "ultimate" AI is/are people. CTF bots are probably the best examples of this. "Simple" rules for CTF, but bots suck @$$.
> That's why I was so disappointed that it took them a freakin' year to add multi-player support. That indicated to me that they hadn't even thought multi-player through until after the game was released...
If you read the post-mortum article in Game Developers (online at Gamasutra ), it says: "We wanted to provide multiplayer support but didn't have the time to do the job we knew we needed to do, and so it got cut."
If you knew Warren Spector, he's a bit of "perfectionist." He's not one to just "add X into the game" if he feels it's not working. Multiplayer is NOT something you jsut "drop" into a game. Gameplay must be designed / changed to accomodate it. Witness all the "balancing" Unreal went through on it's transition to UT. Same with Q3 & Q3A. Secondly, shipping a game ON SCHEDULE is more important then "wish-list features".
As a game developer, I can tell you, that when a game is designed, multiplayer is not just some checklist on the list of feature, but usually thought more in terms "does multiplayer even 'work' in the confines of the game rules. e.g. Does the meta-game support multiplayer?" (Usually the publisher is the one thinking: add multiplayer so we can get more $ale$ )
> and in this day and age, that (in my mind) is unconscionable.
Obviously multiplayer support is important to a LOT of players (FPS crowd), but you have to stop jumping to the conclusion that "FPS w/o multiplayer = sucks & won't sell." (We have Deus Ex and Thief as examples)
Let me expand what I mean.
There are elements of a single-player game that just CAN'T be experienced multiplayer.
For one thing, in a single player game, the control of time. i.e. Something as basic as savegames, and pausing.
Also in single player games, the game designer has better control of the plot/story, and can immerse the player in it, MUCH better then any multiplayer version.
e.g. *You* can be the hero. Having N "heros" running around, is a b!tch to design and give everyong a rewarding experience. This is currently one of the "unsolved" problems of massive gaming.
Deus Ex is partly an RPG. Multiplayer isn't a "perfect" fit like the Deathmatch-only designed games (Q3/UT) and hence it doesn't "loose" much w/o multiplayer.
I mentioned Max Payne at the top, and the developers are basically saying the same thing.
e.g. The Max Payne interview
I think you need to look at ALL the evidence: Where have games been, what is being made, what "problems" do FPS still have, etc, and you'll come to the conclusion:
Single-player FPS's are NOT dead.
Cheers
> It had no multi-player support for about a year
Talk about deadly combinations!
Neither do The Sims, Roller Coaster Tycoon, and Simcity 3K. All sold REALLY well. So much for no multiplayer being a deadly "un-feature"
> If it has no multi-player capability, then it's gotta' have a longer, more difficult storyline that takes weeks of gameplay to finish (Thief at least did the latter).
Not true. Sim's typically don't have ANY storyline at all. Don't be so quick to lamblast a game just because it has no multiplayer. Sometimes it DOES NOT make much sense for the game - in this case the Sim genre.
Cheers
Amazing to see the continued vitriol.
/. young bucks are having the 20 year reunion in 2018. Picture it with me, won't you?
If only Ion Storm had released a 3d shooter called "Storming Ion Storm", in which you play an opinionated geek running around a virtual community armed with an obnoxiously deadly penchant for regurgitating old jokes about Daikatana, they might have had a grassroots hit on their hands.
Clearly, there are already legions of players here.
FWIW, I'd prefer not to play that game. It was fun two years ago maybe. And maybe it'll come back on a wave of retro-nostalgia when today's
It'll be at a 10x10 booth at PC Expo, the Linux "Woulda Coulda Shoulda" gathering. Two dozen middle-aged dorks sitting around bashing Microsoft and AOL/Time Warner (their booths occupying 95% of the entire tradefloor). Then the subject of crappy games will come up, because X-Box Ultra is the only gaming system around. Then invariably, with the sense of nostalgia for the halcyon days causing all sorts of synaptic activity, someone will say, "You know who used to really SUCK?" - "Jon Katz?" - "No, even more than Katz..." - "Who?" - "Ion Storm!"
A burst of chuckles. Then someone shouts "First Post!", causing everyone else to await his comment.
"Hah- turns out KillCreek made John Romero HER bitch!"
Laughter. One person comments, "Funny +1". Another repeats it. Another. Then someone else says, "Overrated -1". More laughter. Some high fives.
Life will go on, even for those who, while living, do not have a life.
IMHO, Eidos should have shitcanned Dallas two years ago. They would have saved themselves in the vicinity of $10m.
Here's a test for future Eidos executives...
When a title is years behind schedule, you're haemorrhaging staff, and company email indicates a subsidiary is screwing you, do you;
A) Cut the developers loose, or
B) Firehose more money on them in the hope that "Design is Law" and that you don't really need those whiny engineers to create a game. All you need is a "Gaming God" with a rockstar attitude.
To misquote Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back; Fuck Ion Storm Dallas, fuck them in their stupid asses.
If this means no more atrocities like Daikatana, I'm all for it.
Hope that Thief and Deus Ex aren't killed or severely mangled. That'd be a shame.
So...if they're leaving, are they starting another company then? Or heading off on something else entirely?
We all know what happened last time Romero started his own studios...*gag*
Thursday, 7/19/2001
Romero, Hall gone
Warrior | 12:50 | GameSpy News 13 Comments
GameSpy has learned from Eidos that John Romero and Tom Hall have left Ion Storm Dallas.
In a statement released to GameSpy, Eidos said:
"John Romero and Tom Hall have decided to depart ION Storm to pursue other interests. We wish them luck in their future endeavors and thank them for their contribution to Ion Storm over the years, without which we would never have put together such talented teams in both our Austin and Dallas offices. Ion Storm will continue as a wholly owned subsidiary of Eidos and work on the sequels to the awarding winning Thief and Deus Ex titles as well as Deus Ex for the PS2."
Everyone at the Dallas office received a pink slip on Friday and that only a few administration and MIS personnel are left there to close down the office, said a former employee who was part of the layoff.
Eidos would not confirm that the Dallas staff was gone, but said they were waiting to on the sales figures for Anachronox.
Ion Storm Austin was not affected, but Warren Spector will now become head of the Ion Storm subsidiary. The Austin office is looking at changing its name from Ion Storm, but a new name has not yet been chosen.
"Though we went through some turbulent times, our relationship with ION was *super* beneficial at times," said Harvey Smith, who is heading up the Deus Ex 2 team at Ion Storm Austin. "ION gave Warren a place to start building up the earliest version of this studio. (Which is now working on Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3.) Without the initial support of ION Storm, who knows whether we would have been able to create Deus Ex. There were some great people there at the Dallas studio, with lots of passion, and I wish them all the best. The game industry ebbs and flows - heroes today are villains tomorrow, and vice versa."
I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
Okay, what actually happened is back in spring of 1997 Looking Glass wasn't doing too hot financially. In May of 1997 I moved from Cambridge, MA (where Looking Glass was located) to Austin to work on a game called Junction Point. Well, imagine my surprise when Looking Glass shut our office down on July 1st. Okay, it wasn't really too surprising. :) They didn't want to do it, but it was either shut down our office and continue to make payroll up in Cambridge, or shut the whole thing down.
A core group of six people stayed together, receiving no salary, and worked on various project ideas and shopped them around (well, Warren shopped them around.) Eventually a deal was struck with Ion Storm to create an Ion Storm Austin office, as none of us wanted to move to Dallas (can you blame us?) We became Ion Storm Austin on September 1, 1997.
The six people who started the office were Albert Yarusso (myself - programmer), Chris Norden (programmer), Steve Powers (designer), Dave Beyer (designer), Kraig Count (artist), and of course Warren Spector. Of those, Steve and Warren are the only full-time employees still with ISA. Chris and I are working as contractors on Deus Ex for the Playstation 2.
Yeah, I like the more simple, more FUN to play games. Who needs 15 buttons on a joy stick or a WHOLE keyboard (mech warrior 4) to play a damn game!
Oh well. I'll just pull out my Apple ][ I guess.
-----
Ive got a buddy that used to work at ion storm. apparently, they hadnt given him anything to work on for a LONG time, several months. This was highly expected.. and he kept bitching about how he knew they were going to fire him... Still not sure if hes got another job yet.
no
I think it should be noted that your comment really only applies to the games that make it to the shelves. There are a TON of fun games out there, that happen to have the same gameplay level as some of the old C64, Apple II, etc. games. Go hit VideoGameDownloads.com sometime and take a look around - not every game is done in 3D, and quite a few a good games with solid gameplay (however, separating the wheat from the chaff is a problem sometimes.) Yeah, I know - these aren't games offered on the shelves. But ya know - you can complain all you want about what's on the shelves, but you can't compain there aren't good games out there - there are.
And the situation is only getting better. Brian Hook, IIRC, is now changing his focus on develoment. Instead of trying to make the next multi-player extraviganza in 3D or money munching MMORPG, he's going after the classic games. (Of course, he's also refocusing what platform he's working on - Mac.) MidnightRyder.Com (that would be my company ;-) is resurecting old gameplay in the form of Jumpman: 2049 and Trajectory (think Scorched Earth, but a bit more modern.) Trajectory may see shelves, but, Jumpman: 2049 probably never will, dispite the fact that IMHO it's going to have considerably more depth of play and actual play time than a good 3/4th of the stuff on the shelves these days.
As for the actual substance of modern games - well, I'll avoid the normal flame war that starts with these particular discussions ;-) But - it's definitly a case of to each his own. I don't mind all the glitz - I love UT, for instance. But I also can't set down and enjoy it nearly as much as some of the stuff I did back in the C64 era. That's just me.
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr - looking for something to read? Check out my three free novels at MidnightRyder.org
This is wonderful news.
Romero was one of the biggest drags any company could have had. The corporate infighting and backstabbing amongst the top executives at Ion Storm was appalling, and led to multiple programmer walkouts. Meanwhile, the fighting executives continually siphoned profits that didn't exist yet for lavish personal expenses. It was one of the worst cases of management I've ever seen. Its amazing that they didn't have the plug pulled on them.
Amazingly, the projects that weren't micromanaged by upper management did very well... gee, I wonder how that happened...
-= rei =-
"Well, then fire it up and show me what this..." (sigh)
Early ads for Daikatana claimed "John Romero will make you his bitch, suck it down."
Quite the PR failure, and actually admitted to be a mistake by Romero himself. Obvioulsy something else started "sucking," like sales.
Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare.
I can't stop laughing every time I hear that...
...and then I start crying after I remember what happened to Looking Glass Studios.
For those of you who don't know, after releasing the successful (and brilliant) Thief: The Dark Project and Thief II, Looking Glass Studios was denied funding by the publisher so that Ion Storm could continue working on Daikatana.
Looking Glass Studios closed its doors, and Ion Storm kept on keepin' on.
I totally agree with you that it's about time Romero got what was coming to him, but before that happened, a lot of innocent bystanders were hurt.
"The remains" of Ion Storm are now working on Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3. I don't know if that was a poor choice of words or if you were expressing subjective opinion.
Deus Ex is one of the most involved first-person I've ever experienced. To me, it set a new standard for what a first-person game should be. It didn't assume that the player was mentally retarded in terms of storyline, nor did it need to be sprinkled here and there with toilet humour/strippers to remain interesting.
If "Warren Spector," creator of Deus Ex, System Shock, Ultima Underworld, Thief -- a consistently GOOD game designer is considered a remnant of a company, then I'd love to see the state of a full-fledged gaming company.
Warren Spector (aka God) in charge is the best news I've heard in the PC Gaming industry!
Everything outta IonStorm will mean it has a great plot, and incredible gameplay, not to mention a good RPG element!
My only question is why not change the name to "Looking Glass Studios"? After the major breaking of Looking Glass, Warren hired most of the employees. Its almost like a reincarnation!
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Recently, the Austin team has expressed that they don't agree with the Dallas office as to the style of games being made, and that an imminent seperation was at hand. Austin has made some good titles, while Dallas has basically only made crap; not a major blow for the video game developement community, except now Romero will claim you are his bitch from another venue, just what we need.
Romero, take a hint and go join some video gaming subculture and keep out of the mainstream attention: anything so far you seem to have helped to manage has turned into crap, and fallen apart.
"This is where god would go if he wanted to get off blow!"
Moderators - that wasn't funny, that was depressing. Fortunately many of the Looking Glass team are working on Thief 3 at Manifesto (formerly Ion Storm Austin). This has been hashed to death, but I personally still feel that Eidos did the world a disservice by allowing Ion Storm Dallas to continue (even this long) and Looking Glass to go under.
May Thief 3 rock.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Even though Daikatana became the albatross around Ion Storm's neck, Anachronox ended up being a pretty good experiment. Problem is, it's only half of the story -- it ends where Part Two should technically begin.
Would it be possible for the reorganization to lead to Tom Hall being able to develop Anox 2, much in the way the Thief team reformed to develop Thief 3? Or will Eidos dump the franchise / hire some hacks other than TH to finish it in a bastardized way? (See also: Space Quest, and to a lesser extent, Monkey Island.)
It's really a shame that the gaming industry has developed into a Here Today, Gone Tomorrow mindset. For simple FPS shooters that's fine and dandy but for story-driven games like Undying, Thief, Half-Life, Deus Ex and Anachronox, it can end up killing off great concepts before they have a chance to fully develop.
---
I guess this is a good indication of the status of the gaming industry, and how risky it is.
This is a troll, right?
Amen. Thank for you saying this.
I wonder how Spector feels about this...remember that Ion Storm's parent company is Eidos. And it was Eidos who wasn't able to give Looking Glass Studios the short-term cash to keep them from going belly-up because they were throwing it down the throat of Romero and Ion Storm. And now Spector is heading Ion. The mind boggles...
This is so ironic.
I think that this is a great move on the part of Romero and Hall because assuming that they want to keep working in the gaming industry, they need to start fresh. They tarnished the Ion Storm name because of Daikatana and are going in the right direction if they want to be taken seriously again. Also, they are showing some wisdom by giving a genius like Spector the helm of a development house that already is blooded and has some momentum. Perhaps they are doing this to 'apologise' to Spector for being indirectly responsible for the demise of LGS, which was, IMHO, the most innovative game production house ever. Period.
And about Warren Spector... I'm literally grinning ear to ear about having him at the helm of a production house again! It should be interesting to see if he can turn Ion Storm into another Looking Glass Studios.
Programmer 1: So I'm envisioning a completely non-restrictive mode of play... Pass the bottle will you?
Programmer 2: Like Unreal? It has it's advantages, but -- Damn, this cardboard box isn't very warm, is it?
Programmer 1: You can usually get coats from the Catholic mission. At any rate, I think we can overcome the problems that an unlimited map will create by using this special algorithm.
Programmer 2: It'd be easier to see if it wasn't written on the sidewalk.
Programmer 1: Yeah, I know. It's been a while since I managed to scrounge up any paper.
Programmer 3: Buggrit! I tol' em! Millenium-hand and shrimp....
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
The average game development model now involves huge staffs with scary-big salary and support costs. No longer is it a few talented programmers. Now we have level designers, graphic artists, and testing staffs to create the incredibly complex games we demand. If the company guesses wrong about what will sell, what hardware to target, or how many man-hours will be invested in development and testing, they can be facing a multi-million dollar catastrophe. For every successful game series like Quake, Unreal, and Tomb Raider, there are hundreds of games that will never turn a profit.
We, as consumers, keep raising the stakes. We're willing to blow $50-$60 on a game now, but we demand a level of cinematic polish that would be daunting to a Hollywood movie studio. I don't know where it will end or how.
The ad came out in 1997, three years before Daikatana came out.
Suffice it to say that after incessant delays and a game that was at best lackluster, this became an irony point.
Schnapple
Schnapple
John Romero cant leave without his buddy Superfly!
Actually Ion Storm-Austin (Deus Ex) and Ion Storm-Dallas (Daikatana) are becoming two independent companies. Warren Specter's company will be called Manifesto Studios and is currently working on Deus Ex II and Thief III. John Romero and Tom Hall have registered Mentallion.com (Mentallion Industries) and MonkeyStone.com (Monkey Stone Games) however it's undecided which name they will be using. John Romero claimed a while back that he wouldn't be releasing information on his next project after Daikatana was insulted by the gaming community. We're still trying to figure out if that's a good thing or a bad thing...