Comic Books And The Internet, Continued

A number of readers have written in about the Salon story talking with Gary Groth's recation to Scott McCloud's pieces on the intersection of the comic and the Internet. Groth's feelings are much different then McCloud. I love the comic book format (am currently reading Cerebus, The Dreaming and Bone amongst others) and think is an interesting issue - 'specially considered within the greater question of "art" and digital media.

Comments

McCloud is right

[steveha]

Mr. Groth wrote this really long, tedious, steaming pile of words, which all boil down to "net bad, paper good, McCloud sucks". Scott McCloud has some good ideas; not all are practical now, but that is no reason to throw them all out the window and hurl insults at him.

I really enjoy CRFH. It's one of my favorites. If there were no Internet comics, I would not be able to read it; it would not exist. The Salon article has a direct quote from the author of CRFH saying just that. Mr. Groth can rant tediously all he wishes, but he won't convince me that a world without CRFH is a better world.

Even if you think micropayments will never happen the way McCloud describes them, McCloud still deserves some credit. He cares about comics, and wants to see them survive and prosper. As he wrote in his book, market forces in the printed-comics world can crush new comics: you can't get sales unless stores stock your comic, stores won't stock your comic if it's not just another X-Men ripoff. With the web, anyone can put up a new comic, and the good ones can grow by word-of-mouth.

One last note: if you think Internet comics are all quick gag-a-day strips, you might want to check out the Zot graphic novel. It's very good!

steveha

once again....

[bricriu]

Once again, Sluggy Freelance has been passed over in an online article/discussion about comics. It has everything that Salon is bringing up as salient points: long story arcs (not quite as long as the mentioned College Roomies from Hell, but they do intersect and elements from previous arcs come back in later ones), micro-payments, the ability for the artist to make the majority of his money off of it (witness the actual bound books available through Plan 9 Publishing, as well as the assorted "goodies" you can buy), and solid artwork (those who've read Gaiman's Sandman may notice some influence in the often-hauntingly-beautiful The Bug, the Witch, and the Robot story arc may see some similarities)...

Why does it seem that Sluggy has become an online-comics pariah these days? User Friendly gets bashed for being too pro-geek (or whatever), which may or may not be a valid criticism. But Sluggy is just getting forgotten? What gives?

RTFM solved if ...

[beanerspace]

Okay, here's a wild hare of an idea that'll probably klobber my karma ...

Perhaps we could get users to read the manual if they were in comic book format ? And it doesn't have to be anything cheezy ... I remember spending hours sitting on the edge of the couch pouring over Classic's Illustrated renderings of this novel or that.

Sure, it'll have it's limitations, just the same way trying to use a Classic's for a book report on Moby Dick is ... but at least the user will have a clue.

Ughh... Too many levels of abstraction.

[Giant Hairy Spider]

Here we are, posting comments on a link to commentary on a review of an analysis of the future of a medium for a mode of expression.

Now people are going to moderate these comments, and meta-moderate the moderation, and probably comment on both level of moderation.

Given the typical error factor in each level of analysis, there is a near certainty that there is no meaningful connection between this discussion and physical reality.

So does this mean we've gone insane or that we've evolved into creatures of pure thought and energy?

More recommendations

[DreamingReal]

All of those you recommended are *great* series. Most of the incredible things I'm reading at the moment are not in the superhero genre either (although there are good books there as well). Here's some more -

• Palooka-Ville - by Seth. Published by Drawn & Quarterly. Pick up the collected story arc, It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken. It's a semi-autobiographical account about the author's quest to find an obscure New Yorker artist (drawn in a New Yorker style).
• Ghost World, David Boring, or anything else by Daniel Clowes. This guy is one of the best writers in Indie comics. Sharp, dark humor. Published by Fantagraphics.
• Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth - By Chris Ware. This one is available at Barnes & Noble and Borders. Collected from the Acme Novelty Library series. A heart-wrenching story about a pathetic man who meets his father for the first time. The best series I read last year and Ware is the greatest hope for comics being taken as a serious medium. Also published by Fantagraphics.
• Optic Nerve - By Adrian Tomine. Published by Drawn & Quarterly. One of the most promising young talents in indie comics. Pick up Sleepwalk and other stories, which collects issues 1 - 4 of Optic Nerve. Short stories about real people. Brilliant work.
• From Hell - By Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell. Moore's analysis of Jack the Ripper is frightening, shocking, and enthralling. I've read this series three times and I still haven't absorbed everything. Available in a collected edition at B&N and Borders.
• Maus - By Art Spiegelman. Winner of the Pulitzer Prize. One of the most overlooked treasures in comics. This book stands in the shadow of Watchmen when people talk about the best comics produced in the 80's. A masterpiece narrative about the Holocaust. This is the torch-bearer for greatness in the comics medium.
• Anything by Brian Michael Bendis - This guy is reigniting the Marvel line with his work on Elektra and Ultimate Spider-Man but some of his best work was done at Image Comics. Pick up Jink and Torso, both available in TPB.

And a few other quick recommedations: Non by Jordan Crane, Jar of Fools and Berlin by Jason Lutes, the re-issued B&W TPB of Akira and Oh My Goddess! both published by Dark Horse, and Peter Milligan on X-Force. Phew! Any one who says that comics are dead isn't reading any. There are spectacular things going on in the medium at the moment. With sales down, publishers like Marvel and DC are taking more risks. The result? Some of the best comics from these companies in the last ten years. And like I've outlined, Indie comics are still churning out *great* books.

For even more recommendations and some damn good thoughts on the comics industry as a whole, read Warren Ellis' series Come In Alone at Comic Book Resources. A collected, dead-tree version is also available (which I have and strongly recommend).

Re:Comic books are cool but

[iapetus]

So rely on personal recommendations and pick up the comics in collected graphic novel format rather than on a monthly basis.

Some series that I'd recommend:

• Lenore (Roman Dirge) - Very sick and twisted, some genuinely thought-provoking stuff in here. Outstanding stuff, now available in two collections.
• Transmetropolitan (Warren Ellis) - Some real bite in this one from time to time, though I miss the one-offs from the earlier parts of the series. Still running, but a fair few collections available.
• Preacher (Garth Ennis) - Don't read it if you're offended by the odd bit of blasphemy, but for anyone else it's great stuff.
• Sandman (Neil Gaiman) - Buy it. Now. All of it.