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Slashback: Licensure, Restriction, Cometry

Slashback tonight with more on the continuing role of Mitchell Baker with the Mozilla project, flying through comet trails, gaming particulars, and the interesting Microsoft FrontPage EULA forbidding certain types of web pages be made with it.

Because not everything is as simple as who signs your paycheck ... cetan writes: "As a follow up to being laid off by AOL from Netscape, Mitchell Baker posted an article on Mozillazine discussing her role within Mozilla.org."

Can you think of a title to help her replace "Chief Lizard Wrangler"? All that wrangling has been a good thing, though, as recent builds make clear. I'd like to suggest "Reptilian Ambassador."

Sometimes, you just have to play. t0qer writes: "This is an update to this story. Originally I said kaillera was a net enabled version of mame, it's actually a free SDK to enable any emulator to have netplay. It was written by Christophe Thibault, of winamp fame. Contrary to some comments that the code was ripped from netmame, it was actually borged from jnetlib which was written by his boss and buddy Justin Frankel. So far kaillera has been adopted by 10 different emulators.

Speaking of games, iphayd writes: "Graeme Devine updated his plan , and released a version of Return to Castle Wolfenstein. While this isn't interesting in itself, he's claiming that he is getting 3x the frame rate on a dual 800 G4 system than his dual P3 800 system."

You shall not convert the news headlines in the MSNBC component into an audio format. MarkedMan writes: "There has been some confusion over Microsoft's Frontpage EULA, with some claiming it prohibited using the software to produce works disparaging Microsoft and some saying it simply prohibited the use of the Frontpage logo on such sites. (The logo restriction actually seemed reasonable to me.) After some searching I found that some versions of the EULA do indeed limit use of the program itself. This from Northwestern University's Microsoft User License: Check out page 2, section 2. http://www.tss.northwestern.edu/select/mspur.pdf"

We have come to terms. bkuhn writes: "The FSF and FSMLabs have an agreement on a GPL-compliant version of the RTLinux Open Patent License. You can read our statement and related press release on the matter."

It's cool to see this sort of conflict work be met and resolved.

Not quite a date with a star. Troodon writes "A brief reminder, JPL and BBCnews report that this Saturday (22/SEP/2001) at 2230 Universal time (3:30 p.m. PDT) Deep Space 1 has a date with the Comet Borrelly"

34 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. FrontPage web components by OblongPlatypus · · Score: 2

    From the section referred to in the article:

    For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline component, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component.

    Not having used FrontPage in general and any of these "web components" in particular, I don't want to draw any conclusions, but it doesn't seem like the restrictions covered in the section would come into play if you just use FrontPage as a WYSIWYG editor to design your site.

    --
    -- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
    1. Re:FrontPage web components by Dwonis · · Score: 2

      Surely it is fair that if you are using MSNBC dynamic content you page, you can't go along and defame the same content.

      You are full of crap. This is known as criticism, which is well-accepted in the world by almost anyone who is not receiving it.

    2. Re:FrontPage web components by gorilla · · Score: 2

      Most sensible people are happy to accept criticism, as it's the only way they'll learn their faults and improve.

  2. Enough already by ekrout · · Score: 2

    (Note: it took 3 minutes to get this comment through the "postersubj compression filter". WTF? Apparently, "Enough is Enough" is not an allowable subject field.)

    This Microsoft cr*p is ridiculous.

    It is now the time for anyone and everyone who spends a significant amount of money on Microsoft products to seriously evaluate their options (i.e. consider open-source and related software products).

    From product activation to (fill in the blank) to this latest EULA fiasco, I think most people have had just about enough.

    --

    If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
    1. Re:Enough already by iso · · Score: 2

      From product activation to (fill in the blank) to this latest EULA fiasco, I think most people have had just about enough.

      Make that people on slashdot have had just about enough. The vast majority of the population don't notice or care about Microsoft's abuses, and if you think otherwise, you've been hanging around geeks too much. Sad but true.

      - j

    2. Re:Enough already by Dwonis · · Score: 2

      Why does Stallman demand tacking GNU in front software names? Seems like advertising, hmm?

      I've only heard him do it for Linux, and his reasons are sound: he's filling a need (distinguishing the *kernel* "Linux" from the *operating system* "GNU/Linux"). I fail to see a problem with that, especially since he's stated his preference, not imposed it legally on others.

  3. Microsoft bankrupt as Porn sites go Open Source by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 2
    Who cares about "You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia or their products or services"? The phrase that caught my eye was "or promote...pornography." So the only businesses that actually make money on the internet are now barred from using Microsoft's web server? Ignore your largest, best funded customer base -- great idea, BillG!

    Hmmm, I wonder if the porn shops will soon have more openings for Linux folks... My wife wouldn't like it, but I think it would be a great work environment ;-)

    --
    If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    1. Re:Microsoft bankrupt as Porn sites go Open Source by Surak · · Score: 2

      The EULA in question applies to FrontPage. In fact, it doesn't even apply to FrontPage the application, but the FrontPage Web Components

      I suppose it depends on what you deem to be "the Web components." This provision is very vaguely worded, probably on purpose. Microsoft says that it includes the MSN Stock Ticker, the MSNBC headlines, Expedia maps, and so on. However, where do you draw this line? Perhaps FrontPage extensions such as the Forms component (which displays HTML forms and then e-mails their contents to a specified e-mail address without writing any code), could be construed as being a "Web Component." Microsoft's definition of Web components does not specifically state what this includes and what this excludes, again, probably on purpose.

    2. Re:Microsoft bankrupt as Porn sites go Open Source by larien · · Score: 2

      Just remember that on your CV, you spent time working at "a high bandwidth e-commerce site with high availability requirements".

    3. Re:Microsoft bankrupt as Porn sites go Open Source by Erasmus+Darwin · · Score: 2
      "However, when was the last time you actually went to a porn page for stock quotes, news headlines, driving directions or hotel accomodations, etc?"

      You haven't heard of Naked News? (Warning: nudity -- I'm not sure how bad the main page is, since I'm using lynx at the moment. But it's not a hoax.) It's big enough that it actually got regular television news coverage when they were looking for male anchors to balance out the cast.

  4. Re:Welcome to Micronistan ! by jfunk · · Score: 2
    Yeah, sure, what do you think most porn site webmasters are using ?


    Actually, PHP is quite popular in the net-pr0n world. It makes sense, too. It's cheap and quick, like the content. It's low maintenance, as well.

    I was watching a show one time (I forget what it was called, some business show, I think) that had a story about Danni Ashe (sp?). She said that she started her popular site on a Linux box in her bedroom and did the administration herself. I thought that was pretty cool...

    ObStandardDisclaimer: Oh, and I know all of this because, er, a friend told me, yeah! :-)*
  5. Did you even read the EULA? by Carnage4Life · · Score: 4, Informative
    Yeah, whoever uses FP to produce a web page, according to the EULA, is not allowed to remove the "active links" (advertisements ?) from the thing, you may not use it "in connection" with sites that diaparages M$, MSN, MSNBC, etc (note : nothing about those companies peoples, though).

    The first paragraph in that section reads
    For purposes of this section, the Software means the FrontPage Web components, including the MSNBC news headline component, the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quote component, and the MSN Search component.
    So basically MSFT doesn't want you using their COM objects on sites that perform illegal activities or diss MSFT subsidiaries. This is very different from stating that if you build your site with Front Page then you must conform to those restrictions. As for "active links", these refer to URLs that components may contaion that lead back to MSFT, for instance MSIE ships with links to Hotmail, Windows Update, and Windows Media Player while Netscape ships with links to AOL and Real. All that section is saying is that if you reuse their components then you shouldn't change the links, seems straight forward enough to me.
  6. Whatever happened to quickies? by z4ce · · Score: 2

    It appears the last quickies article was posted Wednesday March 28, @05:59PM. Come on now, there has to have been a lot of little cool stories since then. I miss the quickies. They had a lot of the funniest, coolest, weirdest tidbits on /.

    Anybody know why they have ceased to exist? Taco, hemos, et al you out there?

  7. multiplayer mame sucks by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

    I found out about Kalliera(sp) and immediately downloaded it. Imagine, being able to play real arcade games, with other people, over the internet! Wow!! I install, join a server, and plop. Nothing. The only games being played, and I mean the only games, are the dreadfully dull fighting games. I try some of the other servers, and the same thing is going on there. I repeat this process many times over the span of a few weeks, and I don't find *anything*. I mean, not one single time did I find anyone playing any real arcade games. I think once I saw someone playing Puzzle Fighter, which tries to fool people into thinking it's a fighting game, and evidently succeeded in this case.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  8. More direct .plan links by OblongPlatypus · · Score: 2

    For those wondering where Graeme's claim about the framerates were, that was in an earlier update. You can find it at QuakeFinger as well.

    --
    -- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
  9. Microsoft can do this by Ghoser777 · · Score: 2

    Of course they can. They can limit whatever speech through their medium that they want. Republican talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh don't have to allow liberals (or atleast, the smart ones) on their show if they don't want to. So what do liberals do when they don't have their voice heard on the EIB network? They go elsewhere.

    And frontpage is nowhere near a monopoly, and there are tons of alternatives, so the ability to have speech is not limited through a medium, just one avenew out of several similiar avenews for expressing free speech in one medium is limited.

    Restrictions like this should make a lot of people consider using alternatives. The more people that move away from microsoft products, the better. And if microsoft is going to give people good reason to switch, I'm not going to complain.

    F-bacher

    --
    James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
    1. Re:Microsoft can do this by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 2
      I can't actually claim to know anything about contract law, and EULAs seem not to have much validity anyway so maybe none of this matters.

      However, if EULA are already on shaky ground, putting something like this in is even shakier. This clause has far-reaching implications for the user -- where other such clauses are directly attached to the product, such as not allowing benchmarks, this relates to content which is probably not created by the same people (or even companies) that chose and installed the software. While such a clause might be enforceable in another situation, I can't imagine the legal system is so fucked up that it would be enforcable because someone clicked "I agree".

      Of course, legal enforcement is probably not on the minds of the MS lawyers anyway. This clause gives them an opportunity to harrass.

  10. Re:Infinate Justice? by Pope · · Score: 2

    Supposably, it's the follow-up to an earlier operation, "Infinite Reach." You know, when Clinton decided it would be a great idea to destroy aspirin plants in the Sudan? :P
    http://www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/jsexton/NewsWatch/i ss ue19.htm

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  11. Re:Infinate Justice? by Ghoser777 · · Score: 2

    Besides the spelling, I have no idea why they called this Operation: Infinte Justice. Why not Operation: CounterTerrorist Assualt or Operation: Kill Terrorist or Operation: Get Bin Laden, etc? Oh yeah, because the federal government sounds better if it uses words that mask the meaning of the operation. It's a linguistic game they play all the time. You know, when your job is being reingeneered instead of being fired? One sounds a lot worse than the other. The gov't is obviously going to pick a name that obscures the questionable actions of the gov't and replaces them with something less attackable, such as reaping justice. Bringing down revenge would put some people in a fit, but who can argue with getting justice?

    Not saying that the operation may not be for the best, but this is probably wy they chose the name: it limited potential criticism.

    F-bacher

    --
    James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
  12. Hmm... by atrowe · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "You shall not convert the news headlines in the MSNBC component into an audio format"

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Win2K come with a program called Narrator that converts text into an audio format. I wonder if we could sue MS for violating the DMCA (circumvention device) using their own software? Thoughts?

    --

    -atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.

    1. Re:Hmm... by rark · · Score: 2

      Um, I don't think that counts as circumvention. Potentially breach-of-license, but that's the user's responsibility (if part of the license agreement is "Thou shalt not break this CD into little bits with a hammer" you're not allowed to sue the hammer company if you do, and neither is microsoft)

      > I have no toleranse for stupidity.

      Please tell me that was meant to be ironic.

  13. What Frontpage EULA restrictions? Read Here... by Lostman · · Score: 2

    You may not use the software in a connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia or their products or services, infrince any intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred, or pornography...

    I like what one poster made fun of -- what is Microsoft thinking? Can't make pr0n sites with frontpage? No links that promote racism or hatred?

    This seems a bit much... I dont condone hate groups, nor do I condone racists... but I respect the right they have to have their views. Microsoft is seeming to be letting idealogies determine what a person can do with their product... to ask yourself if this can be done -- think: do you think its ok and legal to sell a product to make web pages with the EULA that "You can not use this to make any page that does not have only the words 'Microsoft is Cool' on it" and advertise it otherwise? Someone buys this product (for example) for the sole purpose to let other people know what a complete and total idiotic racist that they are, and then they find that the EULA that they did not see until after they installed the product prohibited it. They can't return it -- (open box software), and they cant use...

    What can we do?

  14. No. by rebelcool · · Score: 2

    you're thinking of 'common carrier' status. It relates to telecommunications companies and has nothing to do with software.

    --

    -

  15. Re:Infinate Justice? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2

    The DoD have given neat names to operations in the past. It dates to 1964.

    http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/index.html

    Joint Guardian
    Allied Force / Noble Anvil
    Determined Force
    Cobalt Flash
    Shining Hope
    Sustain Hope / Allied Harbour
    Provide Refuge
    Nomad Vigil
    Nomad Endeavor
    Deny Flight
    Decisive Endeavor / Decisive Edge
    Decisive Guard / Deliberate Guard
    Deliberate Forge

    Those are just a few.

  16. Re:This is why we need the "Bigot" license. by Ghoser777 · · Score: 2

    I think the rendering of services cannot be stopped on the basis of sex, race, sexual orientation, or physical ability (aka being disabled). But of you do it for another reason (such as for being a hater), it is legal.

    And hey, if companies want to start making bigoted licenses, I'm all for it! Think of all the people would migrate from Microsoft to even half-assed alternatives if Microsoft admitted openly that they discriminate on the basis of sex. I think we've gotten to the point that big companies will have trouble getting away with such open discrimination without an economiuc hit. It's the smaller businesses that are more likely to not have their racists practices uncovered and blared on every major network news station.

    F-bacher

    --
    James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
  17. Don't look to Apple by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2

    They tried their damndest to get the Church of Satan to remove "Made with a Mac" or an apple logo removed from their pages.

    At least MS is coming outright and tell users what they can't do, as opposed to picking on certain groups because it might upset the herd.

    Most americans couldn't care less about free speech and the corporations know this, and now they're exploiting it.

  18. Re:Related MS conditions of use. by Genom · · Score: 2

    The problem is that it makes it so you can't praise MS for something on one hand - but criticize them on another.

    You can't say "I really like Hotmail - it's a great service [logo with link] - but not all MS products are as tasty - Frontpage, quite frankly sucks - it produces big, bloated HTML that doesn't work right in any browser but MSIE." -- even though the two products are unrelated in your conjecture, other than the fact they're made by the same company - the EULA prevents you from saying things like this if you use the logo, even if that use is legitimate.

    (note: I don't like Hotmail - it's a spambed - I just used it as an example - I should have used their mice as the example instead - they're the one thing MS seems to be able to do RIGHT)

  19. It's true! by SpookComix · · Score: 2
    Well folks, here it is, in all it's glory, straight from the horse's ass:

    "You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia or their products or services, infringe any intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state, federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred, or pornography. You shall not convert the news headlines in the MSNBC component into an audio format for redistribution to audio users. You agree to immediately remove the Software from Your Web Site if you do not abide by any of these restrictions after notice.
    Wow. I didn't believe it was true at first, but it looks like it is. I'm shocked, seriously. I didn't know they would be this blatent about their horrible licensing practices.

    I'm normally not a MS basher. Hell, I've been an MCSE for over 2 years (both the NT4 and recently the 2K track)...but this kind of stuff makes me happy that I'm making the switch to Linux and open source.

    --SC

    --
    You read fiction? I write it! Lemme know what you th
  20. Re:Welcome to Micronistan ! by plover · · Score: 2
    I was watching a show one time (I forget what it was called, some business show, I think) that had a story about Danni Ashe (sp?). She said that she started her popular site on a Linux box in her bedroom and did the administration herself. I thought that was pretty cool...

    Dude, you forgot the links! If you ever wanted to get modded up as informative, this was the posting to include the relevant links :-)

    --
    John
  21. Re:Operation LAME NAME by PaxTech · · Score: 2

    They could call it Operation Speghetti and Meatballs for all anyone really cares.

    How do you tell a mother her son was killed during "Operation Spaghetti & Meatballs"? That's why they have these kind of names, you can't just use something silly, it has to at least sound like it's worth dying for.

    --
    All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
  22. My letter to the President -- Comments Please by ClarkEvans · · Score: 2

    Sorry if this is off topic... but it's been *very* hard to program this last week. I feel like I have this enormous burden on my chest. I live in a Democracy, and I feel I must now pay for my freedom with time, energy, and concern. If you feel the same way, please comment on this draft to the President regarding his speech this evening. If you don't feel this way, please don't mark me as Troll or Flame-Bait. Instead write your own letter. Call me an idealist if you wish... but somebody's got to do it. Thank you.

    ...

    Dear President,

    Given that you have resolved to take actions against Afghanistan and that our Congress has passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force, I humbly offer a few suggestions which I hope you will consider.

    0. We need more compassionate talk about those innocent refugees who are ravaged by war in Afghanistan. Identify with them and the Arabic world will follow you. Give these people hope and help them rebuild their society. Only then will terrorists be unwelcome.

    1. Make it clear that we are temporary guests who are visiting to restore basic freedoms of speech, assembly, religion, and self-determination. Clearly point out how Muslims, Christians, and Jews peacefully practice their religions in our country due to the separation of church and state.

    2. For every military dollar, spend two dollars on relief efforts in Afghanistan and other "at risk" areas where dissent is evident. To really fight terrorism, we must give hope back to the citizens of Afghanistan. Use this to rally the Arabic peoples of other nations to support us so that the terrorism does not just move to another country.

    3. Declare an American media style 'war on mines'. Rally the Arabic world to help rid Afghanistan of its millions of mines. Let this be a known goal of our "invasion". Promise on our nation's flag that we will not leave mines when we go.

    4. While "war against terrorism" rages, carry on a separate 'war on illiteracy' in the Refugee camps. Build schools. Teach them Math. Teach them Science. Teach them Humanities (esp. Middle-Eastern History). Teach them Business. Teach them Agriculture.

    5. Help rebuild their cities by providing knowledge, food, housing, supplies, and encouragement. Help them rebuild their countryside by exploring what crops work best in their climate and how to build an agricultural system to support their peoples.

    6. Help them form a democratic government. Be clear that we are not Imperialistic. Afghanistan is their country, and will remain their country.

    7. Above all, make it known to the Afghan people and the whole world that we are there to remove terrorists and the government which harbors those terrorists. Make it clear we will eventually leave. And make it clear that when we do leave, their country will be in better condition than when we arrive.

    I close with the recently spoken words of the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II:

    "I pray that this inhuman act will awaken in the hearts of all the world's peoples a firm resolve to reject the ways of violence, to combat everything that sows hatred and division within the human family."

    "[May God] help all to resist the temptation to hatred and violence, and to dedicate themselves to the service of justice and peace."

    Sincerely Yours,

    Clark C. Evans

  23. Re:What Frontpage EULA restrictions? Read Here... by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 2
    promote racism, hatred, or pornography...

    Well, maybe it's okay as long as you are just showing pornography. This isn't promotion, after all. So "Come See Barely Legal Chicks" sites would be banned, but just no-frill hardcore porn pages would be A-OK.

    Similarly, maybe this means it's okay to make a site saying "I hate, I am racist, and here's a picture of me naked", as long as you aren't saying that other people should feel the same.

    Someone buys this product (for example) for the sole purpose to let other people know what a complete and total idiotic racist that they are, and then they find that the EULA that they did not see until after they installed the product prohibited it. They can't return it -- (open box software), and they cant use...
    I've wondered about going through the entire purchase-refuse-EULA-get-return-denied process, and then go ahead and find something interesting in the EULA that I can then break (since they haven't held up their end of the contract, I thus wouldn't be bound).

    Maybe I should purchase a copy of FrontPage, try to return it, fail, and then make a particularly offensive page with it, with a big "made with FrontPage" logo on it.

    The other way would be civil disobedience -- buy this sort of software on a credit card, and when you can't return it get the credit card company to stop payment. I've never done that sort of thing with a credit card, so I don't konw how hard it is. Admittedly you wouldn't be going into the transaction in good faith either. I'd be curious if someone else has tried such a thing.

  24. Re:Pope's Words of Restraint by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 2
    The only intellectually pure stance is Agnosticism
    Agnosticism isn't intellectually pure, it's intellectually weak. It's someone who doesn't think God exists, but isn't willing to say so out loud. Or even worse, they aren't willing to say so to themselves -- an even deeper form of cowardice.
  25. Re:Pope's Words of Restraint by fmaxwell · · Score: 2

    Sounds like agnosticism to me.

    To me, an agnostic is someone who is "on the fence" and cannot decide whether to believe or not. I am absolutely not in that category. I do not believe that there is a God and will not believe it unless someone provides me with credible evidence -- and old books don't count as evidence to me.

    Also, you did implicitly state that you believed that God wasn't real:

    I do not believe in anything without evidence -- God included. If credible evidence is presented, my mind can be changed, but right now, I see no significant chance that God exists in any form.

    I also don't want to fall into the religious zealot trap that argues anyone unwilling to claim with certainty that God does or does not exist is confused. It's the same line of reasoning that causes them to claim that evolution is only considered a "theory" so creationism must be an an equally likely explanation.

    I suspect that a lot of smart religious people do not believe in a bearded guy sitting on a cloud, but have a more sophisticated notion of a universal principle.

    I am sure that is true but my intent was not to argue their point. A caricature the less sophisticated beliefs better serves my purpose and the very fact that God is so ill-defined as to be so different to different people is, in and of itself, telling.

    Prove to me that the positive benefits of capitalism, secular humanism, Taoism, etc, etc outweigh the negative. What a pointless challenge.

    Not pointless at all. You urge me to be more tolerant of religious views that I feel lead to death, torture, destruction, pain, suffering, grief, and war. All I am asking you to do is show me why I should be more tolerant of something that I feel does so much harm. Or should I just take it on faith that religion is good?