Slashdot Mirror
KDE 2.2.1 Up
Igloo Boy writes: "The most excellent KDE developers have made KDE 2.2.1 available for download. Please check the mirrors before you flood ftp.kde.org. I will now crawl back into my igloo and warm up next to my Athlon. It gets really hot from all this compiling." Or you could just call out those 3 little letters that make ya feel so good ... a-p-t. I'm installing now. Hope you guys fixed all the bugs I reported!
Why not just use MandrakeUpdate ? Simple and easy.
My sig of choice is Marlboro
In case kde.org is slashdotted, here is a list of mirrors.
u b/ kde/ (++)
. kd e.org/pub/kde (++)
u x/ kde (++)
k de (-)
k de / (++) (stable tree only)
k de / (++)
p ub /kde (+) (stable tree only)
p ub /kde (++)
e (++)
/ kd e (++)
e (++) (stable tree only)
p .k de.org/pub/kde (++)
d e (++)
l ac kware (++) (Olsztyn)
.at (Austria)
ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/hci/kde (++)
.ch (Switzerland)
ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/kde (++)
.cz (Czech Republic)
ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/MIRRORS/ftp.kde.org/p
"ftp://ftp.fi.muni.cz/pub/kde (++)
.de (Germany)
ftp://ftp.de.kde.org/pub/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.archive.de.uu.net/pub/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.fh-dortmund.de/pub/unix/kde.mirror (++) (stable tree only)
ftp://ftp.fh-heilbronn.de/pub/mirrors/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pub/unix/X11/gui/kde (++)
ftp://bolugftp.uni-bonn.de/pub/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/x11/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de/pub/unix/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/X11/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/X11/gui/kde (++)
ftp://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/ftp
ftp://sunsite.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/pub/Lin
ftp://mimas.germany.net/pub/master.kde.org (+) (part only)
.pl (Poland)
ftp://ftp.task.gda.pl/pub/linux/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.tuniv.szczecin.pl/pub/kde (++)
ftp://kde.fnet.com.pl/pub/kde (++) (debian only)
ftp://ftp.task.gda.pl/pub/unix/kde (++) (Gdansk)
ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/unix/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.man.olsztyn.pl/pub/linux/kde (++) (Olsztyn)
Northern Europe
.dk (Danmark)
ftp://sunsite.auc.dk/pub/X/kde (+)
ftp://ftp.dkuug.dk/pub/kde (+) (stable and part of unstable)
.fi (Finland)
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mirrors/ftp.kde.org/pub/
.se (Sweden)
ftp://ftp.dataplus.se/pub/linux/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.se.kde.org/pub/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/X11/kde (++)
Southern Europe
.gr (Greece)
ftp://ftp.duth.gr/pub/kde (++)
.hr (Croatia)
ftp://ftp.linux.hr/pub/kde (-- stable tree only
.it (Italy)
ftp://ftp.futuretg.com/mirrors/ftp.kde.org/pub/
ftp://ftp.unina.it/pub/kde (--)
.tr (Turkey)
ftp://ftp.tr.kde.org/pub/kde (++) (stable tree only)
.yu (Yugoslavia)
ftp://ftp.kde.org.yu/mirrors/ftp.kde.org (++)
Western Europe
.be (Belgium)
ftp://ftp.belnet.be/pub/mirror/ftp.kde.org/pub/
ftp://ftp.easynet.be/kde (++)
.es (Spain)
ftp://ftp.dit.upm.es/linux/mirrors/ftp.kde.org/
ftp://ftp.tsc.uvigo.es/pub/linux/kde (++)
.fr (France)
ftp://ftp.uvsq.fr/pub/X11/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/X11/kde (++)
.ie (Ireland)
ftp://ftp.esat.net/mirrors/ftp.kde.org/pub/kde (++)
.nl (Netherlands)
ftp://ftp.nl.uu.net:/pub/kde (++)
.pt (Portugal)
ftp://ftp.dei.uc.pt/pub/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.eq.uc.pt/pub/software/unix/KDE (+)
ftp://ftp.esoterica.pt/pub/mirrors/kde (-)
.uk (United Kingdom)
ftp://ftp.net.lut.ac.uk/kde (++)
ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/Mirrors/ftp.kde.org/
ftp://ftp.uk.kde.org/pub/kde (+)
ftp://ftp.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.kde.org/pub/kd
ftp://ftp.newnet.co.uk/pub/unix/kde (++)
Eastern Europe
.bg (Bulgaria)
ftp://ftp.digsys.bg/pub/kde (++)
.ro (Romania)
ftp://ftp.lbi.ro/pub/Linux/KDE (++)
ftp://ftp.tuiasi.ro/pub/mirrors/ftp.kde.org/pub
ftp://mirror.itcnet.ro/pub/kde (++) (stable tree only)
.ru (Russia)
ftp://ftp.chg.ru/pub/X11/kde (++)
Asia/Australia
.au (Australia)
ftp://ftp.au.kde.org/pub/kde (++)
.cn (China)
ftp://ftp.turbolinux.com.cn/pub/mirrors/kde (+)
.hk (Hong Kong)
ftp://ftp.dll.com.hk/pub/mirrors/KDE (++)
.il (Israel)
ftp://ftp.iglu.org.il/pub/KDE/ (++) (without snapshots)
.jp (Japan)
ftp://casper.yz.yamagata-u.ac.jp/mirror/kde (-)
ftp://ftp.lab.kdd.co.jp/X11/kde (++)
ftp://mirror.nucba.ac.jp/mirror/KDE (++)
ftp://sunsite.sut.ac.jp/pub/archives/linux/X/kd
.kr (Republic of Korea)
ftp://linux.sarang.net/mirror/desktop/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.kreonet.re.kr/pub/tools/X11/kde (+) stable tree only
.sg (Singapore)
ftp://kde.lugs.org.sg/pub/kde.org (++)
.th (Thailand)
ftp://ftp.nectec.or.th/pub/mirrors/kde (+)
.tw (Taiwan)
ftp://ftp2.sinica.edu.tw/pub2/wmgrs/kde (++)
ftp://linux.cis.nctu.edu.tw/packages/X/wm/kde (+) stable tree only
Africa
.na (Namibia)
ftp://ftp.na.kde.org/pub/kde (++)
.za (South Africa)
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/sites/ftp.kde.org/pub/kde (++)
America and Generic
.br (Brazil)
ftp://ftp.matrix.com.br/pub/kde (++)
.cr (Costa Rica)
ftp://ftp.ucr.ac.cr/pub/Unix/linux/kde (++)
.com
ftp://ftp.linuxberg.com/pub/KDE (++) (stable tree and apps only)
.edu
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/kde (++) (West Lafayette, IN, USA)
ftp://canine.resnet.gatech.edu/pub/kde (+) (stable tree only)
ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/X11/kde (+) (stable tree only)
ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/kde (++) (US east coast)
ftp://mirror.chpc.utah.edu/pub/kde (++)
.net
ftp://download.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/kde (++)
ftp://ftp.archive.de.uu.net/pub/kde (+) (Germany)
ftp://ftp.esat.net/mirrors/ftp.kde.org/pub/kde (++) (Ireland)
ftp://mimas.germany.net/pub/master.kde.org (-) unstable only (Germany)
.org
ftp://ftp.us.kde.org/pub/kde (++) (Caldera Inc.)
ftp://ftp.vlug.org/software/kde (++) (Victoria, BC, Can)
Download (worldwide) by http
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/ft
http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/hci/kde (++)
http://www.cee.odu.edu/kde/ (++)
http://download.sourceforge.net/mirrors/kde (++)
http://ftp.eq.uc.pt/software/unix/KDE (+)
http://ftp.matrix.com.br/pub/kde (++)
http://ftp.fi.muni.cz/pub/kde (++)
http://www.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.kde.org/pub/k
http://www.uwm.edu.pl/pub/linux/distributions/s
Of course, apt won't install KDE 2.2.1 right now, since unstable has some library version problem (at least on my system.) Probably something got hung in incoming and it will just clear itself up in a few days.
Debian testing is two weeks behind unstable, and tends to be quite good.
...though I was stupid enough to try to use it on a production server back when apache/php4 caused great mess due to library incompatabilities.
The main problem I have with Debian is that packages sometimes change which one is in charge of a file without conflicting, and it apt doesn't offer any nice way to deal with two packages wanting to own the same file unless one of them offers a redirect or they call it a conf-file.
Back on topic, I've just started using KDE again on my new laptop, having not been too impressed a couple of years ago when I last looked. KDE is getting _very_ nice (though you'll probably want to cut back on the eye-candy and gratuitously large real-estate grab the bar at the bottom makes on the default setup).
Apart from Konquerer being a bloatedly slow pig on Celeron 366 with 96Mb of memory, it rocks. Yay KDE.
Fortunatly they used the same naming scheme for their html files as they had for previous change logs :)
2 _2 _1.html
http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelog2_2to
According to this release plan, KDE 2.2.1 will be the last stable KDE release for quite some time. Planned for release in February is KDE3.0, which will essentially be the same 2.x architecture but based on Qt 3.0. They are going to call it KDE3.0 mainly because it will break binary compatibility with 2.x. It will not be a rewrite like KDE2 was.
Of course, KDE is notorious for frequent releases, so I would imagine there will be betas / release candidates every 6 weeks or so until the final 3.0.
Happy downloading/compiling/etc!
a 0.0.1 point increase? well whoopty fucking do, I use KDE and I don't really care, call me next time they do a 0.1 update cuz no one really cares, this isn't the freakin kernel here
Heh. While unintentional, I think that was actually a pretty big compliment for the kde developers. Why do you ask? Well, this 0.0.1 increment is actually a bug fix release. Since you (and I'm sure the sentiment is shared by many others) don't see the need to download this, that goes to show that the previous 2.2 release was actually quite stable and significantly bug free!
Personally, I'd tend to agree with you-- almost. I've found 2.2 to be *very* stable, and use it as my desktop. That said, there still were a few tiny little bugs and quirks that occasionally bothered me, so I'll probably grab 2.2.1 when I've got time.
It's only software!
This page tries to present as much as possible of the problem corrections that occurred in KDE between the 2.2 and 2.2.1 releases. The primary goals of the 2.2.1 release being more complete documentation and translations, the amount of code change is quite minimal - only the most critical bugs have been fixed, the rest of the development is currently being done in the branch that will lead to the KDE 3.0 release.
General- Many improvements to translations and documentation
kdelibs- arts: compile fixes, single threaded option.
- KRFCDate: fix for eastern timezones.
- KTempFile: fix for problem when fileExtension contained "X".
- Improved checking for IPv6 support.
- KPasswordEdit: slightly better in understanding non-ASCII characters.
- KXMLGUI: fix for problem with reading xml file completely.
- KFile: file preview fixes.
- KHTML: Various html & CSS fixes.
- Improved large file support.
- HTTP: Better support for https through proxy.
- HTTP: Improved handling of HTTP-cookies.
- HTTP: Fixed security problem with abuse of HTTP POST.
- Optimisations to improve KDE startup time.
- KDED: All tasks can now be disabled through config file.
- KSpell: support for Lithuanian and Belarusian.
- KSSL: OpenBSD fixes.
kdeaddons- User Agent plugin: various fixes.
- Kate Plugins: made translatable.
kdeadmin- KPackage: various fixes.
- Kwuftpd: various fixes.
kdeartwork No changes kdebase- Kate: corrected bug wrt last line.
- Desktop Wallpaper: small fixes.
- KControl: fixes for NetBSD & OpenBSD info.
- KDesktop: fix problem with icon positions on desktop.
- KDesktop: fixed sever bug where renaming a file on the desktop would destroy it.
- Kicker: mini-pager can be used to switch desktop during drag&drop.
- AudioCD: Vorbis fixes.
- IMAP: Handle folders that contain # or ? in their names correctely.
- SMB: Better error reporting.
- Thumbnail io-slave: fixes.
- klipper: changes in configuration file format.
- Konqueror: compile fixes.
- Konqueror:minor fixes.
- Konsole: many fixes.
- Konsole: added --noxft option to disable AA.
- Konsole: added "tripple click" support.
- KPersonalizer: Fixed bug that inadvertently turned "shade hover" on.
(This makes the window roll up till only the title bar is left when the
mouse is over the title bar for some time)
- ScreenSavers: show screen saver in front of the desktop instead of behind it.
- KSMServer: Provide error diagnostics for common KDE instalation problems.
- KSysGuard: various fixes.
- KWin B2 decration: fixes.
- KWin: Fix for freeze with CDE-style alt-tab.
- Netscape Plugin Scan: Don't crash on incompatible libs.
kdebindings- Many updates.
kdegames- KAtomic: Fixed various incorrect chemical names.
kdegraphics- kdvi: various fixes.
- kgv: small fixes.
- kview: various fixes.
kdemultimedia- Some compile fixes.
- noaun: small fix.
kdenetwork- KMail: various fixes.
- KNode: Fix 1e9 problem.
- KPgp: various fixes.
KDEPIM- korganizer: small fix.
- kpilot: fix syncing problems.
KDESDK- kbabel: small fix.
KDEToys- KScore: small fix.
KDEUtils- Kab: compile fix.
- Kpm: fix for Linux 2.4.
KDdevelop- kdevelop: avoid khtml crash on restoring files also with KDE-2.2.0
- kdevelop: gcc 3.0 compile fix.
- kdevelop: Fix find dialog.
- kdevelop: Various fixes.
KDoc No changes.WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!
You're right, it's not the kernel. It's actually more important than the kernel.
Even though 0.1+ releases of KDE are more significant, the 0.0.1+ releases should not be ignored. They are the "clean up". There was 2.0, then 2.0.1, then 2.1, then 2.1.1, then 2.2, and now 2.2.1. There is always a follow-up 0.0.1 release, and if you use KDE you really should upgrade. The KDE team is good about fixing bugs.
Personally I've never been able to find good HTTP sources for MandrakeUpdate - they're all in France and take megs just to update the packages they have, then inevitably they are versions behind in something I'm looking for. Anyone know of any good HTTP sources for MandrakeUpdate?
creation science book
Don't forget the objprelink. I've used it to build Qt and KDE 2.2 and it has made a difference. (Although windows is still faster, UI-wise.)
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
First I have to say that I am such a HUGE fan of KDE and am ever appreciative of the quality software that their team puts out.
.rpm's, and a seemingly ever-growing list, I gave up. Can you blame me?
Unfortunately, it's been my experience that on Red Hat systems, KDE is impossible to upgrade. I'm not an expert linux user by any means, but I feel comfortable with most aspects of my system. None the less, when installing KDE I seem to find myself deep within the trenches of rpm-hell. Most replies to people with similiar afflictions seem to say, "well, find all the dependancies, it'll be good for you." However, after 50 or so
acm
Are there any RPMs anywhere for RedHat 7.1 (seawolf)? The only ones on ftp.kde.org seem to be for 7.2beta (roswell)...
Mirror located here: kde-2.2.1. Have fun!
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.
I will now crawl back into my igloo and warm up next to my Athlon. It gets really hot from all this compiling.
...
Hope that heat sink is on nice and tight. You know what happens if it isn't
Yes, there is! (Ignore all the people who say there isn't... it's extremely easy to do.)
Check out KDE.DEBIAN.NET. They have apt lines for Potato (stable) for the latest KDE release.
I've lost my entire debian system twice due to using the unstable version.
By upgrading to the latest unstable software on a daily basis, my system was completely trashed.
First it was a glibc problem (I don't remember what), then it was an overwritten file that caused me to not be able to log in. I had to re-install the whole system, and I've used Debian Stable ever since.
There are some ways you can make Debian Stable a lot more modern than you might think...
kde.debian.net gives you the latest KDE...
Ximian offers the latest gnome for Debian potato (stable)...
and gnulpr offers a printing system (easily set up) that can be installed through apt with debian stable.
If you don't know how to fix library problems, do nott use unstable. They will happen. However, you can fix them. That's what emergency disks are for. Boot off your emergency disk, download + install the old library or a new fixed one. Most of the time you don't even have to get that drastic though.. you can either go into single user mode or boot the kernel with init=/bin/sh before you go losing your system you might want to talk with the people in #debian irc.openprojects.net I can almost guarantee your system wasn't actually lost.. I've been dist-upgrading to unstable everyday to every other day now for the last say two years or so.
Ian
One thing comes to mind that'll make my life a lot easier. GTK has separate cut-n-paste for the mouse buttons and the keyboard. IOW, Ctrl-V will only paste what you copied with Ctrl-C and the middle mouse button will only paste what you highlighted with the mouse. QT 3 will have this. In QT 2.3, they're not separated.
Gnome or KDE on Slackware would be kinda hard without a good package management system... well, okay, not that hard... but it wouldn't be as easy to resolve dependancies with a system that doesn't have that capability.
:)
That said, I still use Slackware occasionally because I like compiling stuff from source and actually having control over what's on my system (not to mention the fact that I love the BSD startup system instead of the horrid SysV style.)
Yeah... the glibc problem I didn't have to re-install for, like I said, that one was just an annoyance (having stuff broken and all)...
:)
but the problem I had to re-install to fix was when some kind of password file (I don't remember what) was overwritten by an unstable base package accidentally, and my system did not know who I was and had no way of logging in at all (no users or passwords).
Theoretically I could've fixed this by replacing the files with a bootdisk... but I didn't.
I've been a Gnome + Enlightenment man ever since the 0.14 days of E and the initial betas of Gnome. *Hated* the whole KDE 1.x line, from the looks to the "usability" to the looks.... ;-) Anyways, I followed the party line, accepted that KDE was evil because of the whole QT thing, couldn't stand the looks (did I mention that?) and even when they started shipping themes, they were all butt ugly. Well, the 2.0 release rolled around, I heard good things, wasn't interested. 2.1 came, wackos were raving about konqueror on /., I was running sid so I said "what the heck" and installed it.
:-) Dunno if it's just habit, or if it's a failing in gui fm's, but if I want to move a file, I alt-tab to konsole, then "cp ~/fi[tab] /tm[tab]ba[tab]foo.gz" and I'm done. I truly can't imagine /any/ gui that could improve on that. But as a web browser, it is more stable than IE (not that IE is stable, but it still locks up on me occasionaly, whereas with the stable releases of KDE, a crash is noteworth), pretty standards compliant, and if it supported https through an authenticating proxy, I would be 97% of the way to removing all other browsers from my machine.
Instant love.
Kmail is the client that I've always wanted for linux, and could never find. It is the *only* client that has managed to pull me away from my beloved mutt. Nice. Clean. Simple. Stable. Luckily, I don't need imap support (though it has been in the last couple versions, it's pretty beta'ish), ldap, smtp-auth, or any other "esoteric" feature. Gpg-support works quite well, it just rocks *quietly*.
Konsole was a delight. I had previously tried super-term (I think) that had the same basic idea (multiple terms in one window) but the interface was clunky enough it was unusable (at the time, haven't tried it in a couple years). shift-arrow to cycle through the terms, instant configurability (i.e., no editing Eterm config files by hand), again, just plain rocked.
Konqueror. Don't really have much to say that hasn't already been said. About the only thing I *don't* use it for is managing files
Kdevelop and kde-designer (though that's not really a KDE project) rock my world. I am a crappy coder, and fairly inexperienced in c++, but I have been able to help out the main kpilot developer simply by recreating the kpilot config screens in designer, allowing him to focus on getting usb support up to speed rather than rewriting the interface. I know there are some old-school programmers shaking their head at these new-fangled gui toys that lower the bar so much, but anything that allows a newbie like me to help out with one of his favorite OS projects and actually make a difference (the next version of kpilot that ships will be with my GUI) is nothing but a good thing.
Anyways, to make a long story short (heh), if you haven't tried KDE since the 1.x days, this is the time. You will be pleasantly suprised, and may even make the switch. If not, then happy Gnomeing, or BlackBoxing, or WindowMakering, or CommandLineCommandoing. Just have fun! The world is too great a place to worry about what other people are using for their desktop.
Might take a while ATM 'coz they're in deep-freeze for 8.1 but normally less than 24hrs before a new set of RPMs exist.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Since it really is Microsoft's fault for not using Java or something else portable for their admin tools in the first place, complain to Microsoft. Ask them to rewrite the NT admin tools to use standards, and/or to Open Source the ActiveX environment so that people can write tools for it (1) without expensive licences and (2) without putting their code at risk.
Alternatively, use VNC, it's free and cross-platform.
Final alternative, use the (ghasp) command-line tools. Many competent NT admins practically never leave the command line. You can even put up a telnet (if you are sure there are no sniffers on your LAN) or ssh daemon and use that.
--OR-- since NT is such a PiTA to admin, ditch it.
Put a Mandrake box in there and use your choice of WebMin or LinuxConf for web-based admin, or install one of the many other fine admin packages, or (ghasp again) use ssh and that dreaded command line. If you need to do that last from Windows, go to Google and type putty and click feeling-lucky. Small, secure, no DLLs, no problemo. Follow the link at the bottom of the page for a point-and-click Windows-based ssh file manager.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Granted, this mention was fairly benign - but am I the only one who finds the Debian elitism around here just a little bit annoying?
Nope. What's truly ironic about Debian is that it's supposed to be the purest form of Free Software, yet most of the Debian users I've talked to get irritated when I mention that I prefer compiling programs from source instead of just downloading a binary.
First Slashdotters ragged on everyone that didn't use Linux. Then that got boring and now everyone who doesn't use Debian is clueless. Let me guess, next target: GNOME users.
Nah, Linux itself is too easy for the elite. BSD is the way to go now.
---
Silence is consent.
Last time I upgraded Mandrake 8.0 to KDE 2.2 and used urpmi as it says in the README and it worked perfectly. Its just kinda scary when you have to tell it to break all the dependancies.
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
Might need a few dependencies, but nothing harsh. Unfortunate timing, though, might be a week or so before cooker unfreezes after 8.1final.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...and it never will be. There are too many changes in libraries, etc. and the backporting would not only be way more work than it is worth, but then you wouldn't have a very "stable" environment due to a lack of testing, which is why you use a stable environment in the first place, right?
Many people are using Debian testing and unstable with quite good results. I am using Potato (stable) with KDE 2.1.2 and am very happy with it. Woody should be out next spring with KDE 2.2 and I can wait until then, myself.
Cheers.........
Sure, it's laid out like Win9x, but it's FAST! I haven't looked at memory footprints, but it loads in a snap.
A while ago debian/iunstable did nuke the pam libraries, so you couldn't login, yes.
/), mount the other dirs that might get updated (/var, /usr etc) and run apt-get update&&apt-get dist-upgrade.
This did not require a reinstall. I heard you could've started in single-user mode, but I just went with "init=/bin/bash" at the LILO: prompt - and there you go. Logged in as root on your machine. Then you remount root sa read-write (mount -oremount,rw
Ok, so I had an unusable machine for a day. Luckily I noticed this on the non-vital machine first. (:
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
apt can only -get the packages that are available, or that the dependencies are fulfilled on. Debian is usually behind other distros when it comes to the latest software, but it's just rock stable and also very secure. Nothing else compares.
:)
I'm running Potato with KDE 2.1.2 and am very happy with it (using Mozilla0.9.4 as my browser, which is very nice). Woody will be out next year and KDE 2.2.1 with it. I can wait.
Linux is soooo ready for the desktop. I know this comes up every time KDE or Gnome are brought up, but it actually pains me to keep hearing ignorant arguments.
The Windows 98SE desktop (and 2000, XP, etc.) in its default installation is not office desktop ready. There are several confusing or worthless icons that need to be cleaned up, display properties to adjust, shortcuts to create, etc. I've spent at least 40 hours honing my company's system images to get them 'just right'.
I haven't used Gnome at work, and so can't comment on it. But I've set up KDE systems and it didn't take me near 40 hours to set up 'just right'.
And guess what I found out? When I put new employees/users through their mandatory IT training they picked up on KDE at least as fast as with Windows. Most of these users have had very little computer experience.
I wish I had better documented this when I started. But the users were able to use their word processor and spreadsheet, surf the web, check and send e-mail, print, use network storage and printers, and not fuck up their workstation at least as well on KDE 2.2 as on Windows 98SE.
The key here, and the key that seems to be missing in all other discussions on this topic, is that the users were trained to use KDE. I don't know of any organization with a moderately organized IT system that doesn't have a training department or IT training of some sort.
I've found it's easier to teach users Linux than Windows, so here's what all you code monkeys and sys admins need to do: teach the teachers linux. They'll see that it's easier to use and to teach and will back you up when you go to the CTO/CIO.
KDE is great. It is ready for the desktop. Get your training department's shit together and teach users how to use linux. Plan and test the desktop and start menu so your people can use it. No one can figure out how to use a computer by just sitting in front of one, they need to be taught. It's easier to teach if you're the one who's set the system up.
Honing our Windows images has dramatically cut Help Desk calls. I'm sure the Help Desk techs will be showering me with even more free lunches and drinks on them when Linux spreads throughout our organization.
Get to it!
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
It works well in Connectiva and Mandrake, both of which are RPM based. Which is a good thing, as RPM is the Linux Standard Base packaging system, and far more used.
Debian's has some advantages in terms of packaging
1. Lots of available packaged software
2. A good set of packaging guidelines
Neither issue is to do with packaging systems but rather higher level tools and other considerations.
Red Hat could just as easily put KDE 2.2.1 in their up2date mirrors, but they don't. Which is a damned pity.
Hmm... you're right. :)
I am running Potato, and the KDE off of kde.debian.net... and I assumed it was the latest one ('cause it says 2.x on their web page).
I never bothered to check what version I had (I don't actually run it; I just use kword and konqueror).
"In response to customer demand, we have made KDE the default desktop environment in the latest release of our Turbolinux Workstation product," said Dino Brusco, VP of Marketing at Turbolinux Inc. "Our customers really appreciate the features and stability that KDE provides and we will be offering this latest version of KDE in an upcoming release of our Turbolinux Server product."
t ml)
(from: http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-2.2.1.h
Well, this just just goes to show that all that hard work from the KDE camp has paid off, despite poor advertising and marketing when compared to the competition. Good job all around!
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
you didn't get the libpam-so bug that disabled logins. ;-)
Granted, this mention was fairly benign - but am I the only one who finds the Debian elitism around here just a little bit annoying?
I'm with you... I actually tried out Debian on an old machine because of the huge support it seems to have here. I don't know, I guess if you insist on running Linux, apt is a nice tool. But I still prefer the pkgsrc/ports collection for ease of use and graspability for newbies like myself.
But hey, what do I know.
(Incidentally, a good friend of mine who has been running Linux since before the 1.0 kernel is using Mandrake now. I wonder if the "gotta be l33t" posturing goes away after a few years?)
--saint
There's no way of putting this without seeming:
...But, you have heard of "apt-get source xxx", right?
(Very VERY usefull in the frequently-named dependency-conflict situations above: Don't have a version of "foo" that works with "bar-1.2.3-10"? "apt-get -b source foo".....
--
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
hell, why not come up with a meta-package that will package the RPMs together into one Downloadable fiel that you know will include all the dependancies needed?
Cause then it would "be too much like Windows"(tm). May Linux developers seem to be hell-bent on avoiding even the tiniest hint of 'ease' when it comes to installing their packages (let alone using them). This is not a dig at the KDE folks per se, just my experiences in general. I've had IRC conversations trying to get answers to installation questions where the answer - on more than one occasion - was "if you just want to install something and use it - just go use Windows". The scary thing was they thought that was an insult.
creation science book
Actually, I hadn't, and this sounds damned useful. I think I'll go get apt and stick it on my Slackware box now...
It doesn't compile with 3.0.x because 3.0.x is broken (doesn't handle virtual inheritance correctly, making it unusable for any bigger chunk of C++ code).
Works perfectly with 2.96.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Correction: It actually compiles with 3.0.x, but the resulting binaries don't work because of the compiler bug I mentioned.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
The problem is only with Red Hat, because they have decided not to provide KDE RPMs to upgrade their released distributions. Those RPMs you see for Red Hat are for their beta. You are expected to upgrade to the still-in-beta Red Hat 7.2 to get the latest KDE.
...but I'm going to respond intelligently anyway, just so anyone who reads this is completely clear.
:)
Anyone who uses a packaged, shrink-wrapped version of Linux which uses KDE as it's default desktop and who waits for officially supported KDE 2.2.1 packages isn't going to have any problems. When a reasonably large, fairly established company like Mandrake or TurboLinux puts their name on it, shrink-wraps it and charges you money, you can be sure they've done a fair bit of testing.
The people above who are having problems are mixing and matching compilers and libraries and are using unofficial packages. The cool thing about this is: LINUX ALLOWS YOU TO DO THAT!! It's called freedom, something Windows (or Mac or most other closed, proprietary OS's) gives you very little of.
Even non-commercial version of Linux like Debian will work smoothly, they just happen to be about 6 months behind the the other distributions since they are all volunteers and there's no profit motive to get a release out the door right away after new software is released. Of course, many people are running the 'testing' version of Debian with KDE 2.2.1 just fine, but I don't recommend that if you're worried about 'incompatibility' and don't want to get your hands dirty.
I run Debian Potato (stable) and KDE 2.1.2 and am quite happy with it. I'm content to wait until the next version is ready with KDE 2.2.1.
Hope that helped clear things up for you!
The fact of the matter is, easy installation is 100 times harder to get right on Linux than it is on Windows. On Windows, everyone runs compatible versions of the same kernel. On Windows, everyone uses the same GUI. On Windows, everyone has a /Program Files directory. On Windows, you can always put .dlls in /windows/system. On Linux, none of this is true, incompatibilities are par for the course.
If you come up with a way to make package installation easy across distros, you'll be the hero of package users *and* makers alike. Debian is the only distro that gets it right.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
I never bothered to check what version I had...
:)
Yeah, and that's the point for me: I just don't see any reason to go to Woody. I use Mozilla0.9.4 as my browser, and I can't think of anything that 2.2.1 has that 2.1.x doesn't, at least that I want or need.
How wonderful that Linux has gotten to the point that I can be 6 months (or more) behind the times and not even care.
Its not just the differences. The developers seem hell-bent on making installation difficult. For example, before Ximian (which takes a page out of Window's book) installing GNOME was a hell session of downloaded dozens of dependency RPMs. KDE still has tons of RPMs to install. Hell, upgrading my GNU tools in Windows is probably easier than doing it in Linux. In Windows, Cygwin has a nice GUI installer. All I do is check of the packages I want, and *poof* they're installed. If I want updates, I can do that too. Most people have no problem running a simple setup utility to install a program. But once you get into using multiple files and dependency checking, you've lost people.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
If someone came out with an easy way to make universal installers for linux programs, every developer out there would snap it up in a heartbeat.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
If someone came out with an easy way to make universal installers for linux programs, every developer out there would snap it up in a heartbeat.
>>>>>>>>>>>
I think its a reluctance of developers to standardize on anything. Some people are vehmently against the LSB, even though it tries to solve exactly the problems you mention.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...