AMD To Close Plants, Lay off 2300, Lose Gateway

cdrudge writes: "According to this article on CNN, AMD will be closing 2 plants in Austin, TX and also their operations in Penang, Malaysia due to slack demand. 2300 jobs will be cut in the process. The same article mentions Gateway dropping it's 'Select' line of computers. Their 'Select' line of computers were Gateway's only AMD-based systems. A Gateway spokesperson said 'We're consolidating all of our offering behind Intel, which was the biggest part of our mix already.'"

Comments

Hey if that still fails

[SpanishInquisition]

They can still enter the 'heating componment' market.

Re:Hey if that still fails

[orangesquid]

You know, I read this article title as "AMD to Close Pants, ..." the first time I glanced at it...

AMD, you little heat-whore, you :) They could go into the toasters business....

Not Cool

[BravoXL]

And after reading about the lackluster performance of the new P4 2Ghz this really isn't cool. I hope AMD can stick this one out and get on top.

Highly disappointing

[creep]

I am an avid fan of everything-AMD, thus this announcement is very saddening to me. I really hope that AMD is able to pull things around, I enjoy being able to build new (and powerful) machines for family and friends for less than $400 in some cases.

Re:Highly disappointing

[Edmund]

AMD is far from an upstart. They've been making semiconductors since 1969, although most of the initial line was made under license (i.e. they were more of a manufacturer than a maker).

In fact, they have been building chips to fit the PC platform nearly as long as Intel has. Take an old original IBM PC and fit an AMD 8088 clone in it and see what happens. Unfortunately, the inability to deliver a Pentium-class CPU in time (they were WAY behind Intel) hurt their revenue and market share a lot. Intel's "Pentium" name gained worldwide recognition - and left AMD in the dust.

Hopefully, AMD is not done yet, and like with the K5 they will be able to prop themselves up and surge ahead.

Hopefully.

- Ed.

Re:Highly disappointing

[boristdog]

Hey dumbasses:

AMD is closing its oldest 0.7 micron flash fabs, not anything to do with newer flash or microprocessors.

Intel's ass is still grass.

For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[Brento]

Here's a quote that stands out in the article:

Separately, embattled PC maker Gateway (GTW: down $0.10 to $6.07, Research, Estimates) said Tuesday it will phase out all of its systems based on AMD processors as part of its broader cost-cutting efforts.

It's cheaper for them to just source Intel CPU's and motherboards than to run two product lines, basically. I'm stunned that the price difference in the CPU alone wouldn't be enough to keep Gateway using AMD, but there you have it. For once, Intel is a cheaper decision.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[Gogo Dodo]

But why is it a cheaper solution? Because less product inventory means cheaper costs? Because Intel gives better marketing help? Because Intel chips are cheaper than AMD? Because if Gateway dropped AMD, Intel would give them better prices? We'll probably never know.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[ZeLonewolf]

It's cheaper for them to just source Intel CPU's and motherboards than to run two product lines, basically. I'm stunned that the price difference in the CPU alone wouldn't be enough to keep Gateway using AMD, but there you have it. For once, Intel is a cheaper decision.

Tom (of Tom's Hardware) had an interesting article a while back about how easily AMD CPUs and motherboards can get fried. I wonder if a high CPU failure rate has anything to do with this decision...

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[garcia]

Intel is still not less expensive. It is absolute bullshit to think that AMD wouldn't be a better choice for Gateway to sell.

The problem here is a lot similar (at least in my eyes) to the Pepsi/Coke college thing. Pepsi came on campus here at BGSU and gave them $8 million dollars to take PepsiCo as the main supplier of soft drinks (rather than having both like they did before).

Intel is pulling the same bullshit. They want to squeeze out the competition so they best way to do that is to force large outlets of computers to stick w/one chip vendor.

I consider this very unethical.

I don't know if this is exactly what happened in this case (but I can only assume that it is)

I can't see why people would want to spend more money for less output on an Intel machine when the AMD is tons cheaper and faster.

Yes, yes, we know the public is misinformed and really believes that clock-size is important but price is what gets most people.

AMD still wins there.

Bad choice Gateway.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[phillymjs]

For once, Intel is a cheaper decision.

Perhaps Intel made Gateway an offer they, in their increasingly-desperate financial straits, could not refuse. An offer like, "If you exclusively sell machines based on Intel processors, we'll give you a significant discount over what you'd pay if you offered your customers a choice."

This is a Microsoft tactic from way back, used with great effect to obtain their OS monopoly. The Microsoft File gives a detailed account of them using this tactic to stop Vobis, a German PC maker from offering DR-DOS. Microsoft gave Vobis a huge discount on the then-new Windows 3.x if they would exclusively sell MS-DOS and stop distributing DR-DOS.

~Philly

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[Surak]

I consider this very unethical.

Unethical? I believe there was a case where it was ruled that Intel had monopoly power a couple of years back. That would make it not only unethical but downright *illegal*.

It is essentially not unlike the game that M$ played with the OEMS: Sell only our OS and your price is x, sell other OSes and your price x*10...

Is anybody at the DoJ paying ATTENTION!!!! AHEM!!!!

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[jmauro]

No, because intel will provide fully designed systems (cpu, motherboard, memory, etc), pre-built that Gateway can slap their name on them. AMD won't. When your scrapping for more money it helps that you can cut your design staff completely and outsource it.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[jmauro]

Err... They'll both cut corners if they can get away with it. The DIV bug in the Pentium, Intel tried to play it off until the market pressure became unbareable. They just have so many more people watching them they're more likely to get caught.

Intel made 4 different processors that were Pentium III-600, and did absolutly nothing to tell them apart unless you were buying a boxed processor (and even then they'd be vague why a E or B or EB was better). Most of the people that bought a 600 from Dell or another OEM got a Katmai w/100 FSB (did you ever see a Intel 600EB advertized in a complete system from a major OEM?). No they just provided the slowest of the set. They'll both actually hide what the processor's actual speed/type when it suits their marketing needs. Both companies are trying to sell as many systems as possible, that's all their is two it. Besides if the system is low-end you must expect that some of the parts like the motherboard wouldn't be exactly first rate. They'll get the job done, but otherwise you'll need to spend the money.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[MikeTheYak]

What case would that be? A few years ago, the DOJ investigated Intel on antitrust measures. Intel and the DOJ quietly settled out of court; no harm, no fuss. Considering that AMD DOES make an Intel-compatible product with around 20% marketshare, I don't think you can really show that Intel is a monopoly, even if you restrict yourself to looking at Windows-compatible processors.

The previous poster admits that he has no evidence that Intel is doing anything illegal, but assumes that they must be anyway. I find this to be just a teeny bit presumptuous. Intel may have simply offered better terms than AMD. Since Gateway only has to pass the cost of CPUs on to the consumer, I don't think that price/performance is so much the issue as a streamlined manufacturing pipeline and/or a worry about public perception.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[_|()|\|]

Pepsi came on campus here at BGSU [bgsu.edu] and gave them $8 million dollars to take PepsiCo as the main supplier of soft drinks (rather than having both like they did before).

Intel is pulling the same bullshit. They want to squeeze out the competition so they best way to do that is to force large outlets of computers to stick w/one chip vendor.

I don't think that's the issue, here. Vendors get a discount for a line of computers (e.g., Dimension, OptiPlex) that use exclusively Intel processors. That's essentially why the Select line exists: to sell Athlons without jeopardizing Intel discounts on other lines. I'm not aware of additional discounts for total exclusivity.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[phalse phace]

I think it might be a cheaper solution for Gateway because I was told by a couple of Gateway employees that they see a higher rate of DOA (dead on arrival) complaints/problems for their Athlon-based systems than Intel ones. It might have something to do with the Athlons burning up during initial bootup when the heat sink accidentally falls off during shipping or something else. But in any case, if they have to replace every dead Athlon processor and/or Motherboard with new ones, sticking with Athlon can become costly.

On the otherhand, Intel's P4's have some thermo monitoring thingy which will shut the processor down in case the heat rises too high, thereby saving the P4's life. This might be the reason why using Intel chips are less costly.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[Shadow99_1]

hmmm... Well lets see...

How many workstation & servers do you really think use (or need) more than 2 cpu's? From my experience unless you'd be better served by a 40+ cpu system, you don't need more than 2 or 4.

Even down the line with Hammer AMD doesn't see the need currently for more than 4 cpu's (& that's worst case)... Maybe you need 8 of those crappy Intel cpu's to come close to the performance of 2 AMD's, but that's no reason for AMD to come out with higher mutli-cpu systems...

Oh Intel btw only offers 2 cpu solutions for their P4 Xeon's riight now btw... So why aren't you complaining about how Intel needs 8 cpu systems with P4?

Corp america hardly wants to buy anything right now, hence the PC downturn of this year.

As for upgradable... Um Intel cuts off at the knees any upgrade option every 1 to 1.5 years... Where is that upgradability their huh? In fact AMD has a reputation for keeping the same tech for long stretches (which I admit has fallen slightly since Slot-A went away, but they always said SLot-A was temporary)...

Hmmm... 64bit path... I take it Hammer which will be released in time with MS's XP Server & Advanced server next year isn't 64bit enough for you huh? In fact Hammer is much better for business than Intel's 64bit solution... intel (yet again) forces you to toss away, while AMD promotes keeping what you have... The cost to use a Hammer cpu when upgrading a server (& keeping most of the same software you run now) vs. Itanium were you have to recode or buy new all your software is way lower...

AMD hasn't had to 'emulate' Intel since the 486... X86 is well defined & their 3dnow was something Intel hadn't bothered with yet... In fact they only did because AMD did first... Now who is following who? Intel sold the SSE/SSE2 instructions to AMD for licencing they needed from AMD... Again AMD makign out far better & not compyign Intel...

You go off about a bunch of crap that is wrong & then you whine how AMD needs to change... Well maybe if you could prove your point I'd agree, but you can't...

I am active on many a tech messageboard & so very influential people belong to some... I know one who works for a company that produces digital animation used by several major networks. Under his influence they ONLY use AMD based systems... In fact most recently they upgraded their modelers & part of their render farm to Dual CPU AMD based systems...

I effect the purchase decisions of a large group of people as a consultant for smaller companies (smaller being less than 100 employees)... Upon my recommendation they mostly buy systems from places like Polywell or Sys that sell AMD based products...

AMD doesn't need a new plan, AMD is doing just fine...

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[Anonymous Coward]

At least give Intel a chance to live up to their evil reputation before we bake them for an assumption

Thanks for the chance.

Here at Intel, life sucks. Profits are down, all the perks are gone, people are getting laid off, and there's more and more work to do. But, at least I have a job, unlike those 2,300 AMD'ers. Go to back issues of the register, and compare their leaked Intel processor roadmaps from a few years back. Go look at what we wanted to charge for processors. Then look at our prices now.

But no, we're certainly not beating AMD fair and square, are we? Not by cutting prices on our flagship products, delivering on time, satisfying the customer, etc... no, not that. Surely we must be engaged in some dark conspiracy to manipulate PC manufacturers into dropping AMD against their own financial self-interest. Does no one realize how stupid that sounds?

For those of you who think "Wintel"--realize this: Microsoft can give away products (PowerPoint, IE, PhotoEdit, etc.) in order to drive others out of the market, because 1) they don't have to pay much to make more copies of something once they have a program to sell and 2) they make enough money on enough different products that they can afford to give away products as a "loss leader" to undermine the market share of the competition. Chips cost money to make, and they're pretty much all that makes income for the company at this point.

If we're winning this round, it sure ain't fun. Pyrrhic victory at best--but at least all our fabs are paid for.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[garcia]

as a previous poster has already mentioned the most expensive AMD chip is $100, Intel = $500.

How the fuck can you say that Intel was the wiser choice in a market where price makes sense? $899 for the newest Dell machines (just saw an ad on TV). Gateway is a competitor. Why would they want to jack up the price to compete?

Thus my point is valid. Intel had to do something here to get Gateway to drop them.

Just b/c AMD holds 20% market share does not mean that Intel doesn't have a monopoly. Pushing out other competition like this is monopolistic practices.

Fuck that shit.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[Basje]

What do you think of the fragile core? Putting a fan on a P4 is easy, and risk free. Putting it on an Athlon takes care and you run the risk of breaking it.

In an assembly line there's no such thing as time. If it takes two or three times as long to put on a fan on the AMD CPU, with a higher risk of breaking it, the AMD cpu won't be much cheaper anymore.

I was considering buying an Athlon, but after the reports about the fragility, I'm not so sure. Both are fast, so price counts. But breaking an AMD, and having to buy a replacement, drives the price of a new computer up quite steeply.

Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper

[duffbeer703]

There was a story on Slashdot recently claiming that they were planning on doing just that.

And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[weslocke]

That brings it up to what? 30,000 or so lost jobs over the last couple of weeks? Definitely not very encouraging.

Though on another note, it's very disappointing to see Gateway abandon AMD in favor of Intel. Considering that the AMD processors have a tendency to 'whoop the crap' out of comparable Intel chips (when you factor in the cost, especially) it seems that AMD would've been more logical as a "More bang for the buck" system.

Would anyone like to guess what sort of 'Incentive' was offered by Intel?

Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[whopis]

I think that is an understatement.
Boeing alone was cutting 20,000 - 30,000 workers.

Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[weslocke]

That's right. I was thinking about American Airlines at 20,000... but according to this article at CNN, as of 9/22 there had already been announcements of over 100,000 jobs cut in the airline industry (airlines & Boeing) alone.

Then you have all of the IT cuts that've been taking place lately....

I tell you what, if I weren't the only IT guy where I work (and therefore 'reasonably' secure) I might be looking for a way to make it that way. ;^)

Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[FFFish]

I really suspect that the job cuts that have been happening in industries in all sectors are more opportunistic than realistic.

By which I mean that these people have been deadwood for a good long time: it's just that while the stock market was rewarding those companies unjustly during the boom, those companies couldn't cut their workforce without severely impacting their stock value.

Now that everything is in the shithole, it's real easy to trash employees: hell, it's even desirable to drop the stock price, so that the company can buy it back for resale at a far greater value once the market recovers!

In support of this, look at the number of companies writing off intangibles. They're deliberately beating down their stocks, or at the very least don't care whether the stock drops any further.

Finally, the one big question I have is this: how the fuck do you end up with thousands and tens of thousands of excess employees? You'd have to be insane to retain that many staff when they're unnecessary -- why weren't they being hired/fired in trickles and dribbles, as the company needed/didn't need them? Makes more sense than the freaking cattle-calls they must have chosen when hiring en masse.

One last note: while being fired is stressful, many of these people are skilled and creative. It may take them a few months to get over the loss, but once they do -- look out! We're going to see entrepreneurship skyrocketing!

I think that's pretty exciting. There's going to be a lot of innovation over the next few years. Gonna drive the economy to new heights!

Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[FFFish]

"Realistic" was the wrong word. Obviously, if they really are deadwood, they really do need to be cut loose. What I mean more is that if the cuts were realistic, they'd have been done long ago and in small doses, not in grand swell foops.

Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[Relic of the Future]

"Considering that the AMD processors have a tendency to 'whoop the crap' out of comparable Intel chips..."

Maybe today, but remember, 3 years ago AMD was 'less bang, but less buck'. And IA-64 is just around the corner. Who knows, maybe Gateway is betting on that. (Doubtful, since _right_now_ AMD is decidely better, but maybe Gateway is looking futher ahead than I think.)

Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[frank_adrian314159]

look out! We're going to see entrepreneurship skyrocketing!

Yeah. I've met the entrepeneurs wanting to wash my car windows at stoplights. Absorbing 10K+ jobs is not something easily done in a slowing economy nor do most people have the wherewithal (or attributes) to make them successful entrepeneurs. For every 10 businesses started, only 1 succeeds. And for every 10 of those, only 1 survives to hire more than a handful of employees. Entrepeneurship is difficult in the best of times. Doing it while the economy is in a downward spiral, for most people, is a recipe for disaster.

I think that's pretty exciting. There's going to be a lot of innovation over the next few years.

Yeah, I saw that message in my E-mail with the subject line reading "MAKE MONEY FAST", too. I'm sure other folks out there are just as creative...

Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce

[z4ce]

Very true. When everyone else is showing loss it MUCH easier for you to show a loss. So even if you're in the black, you start writing tons of stuff off. I don't know about the buy-back factor.. but the pure "we can write this off now" factor is huge. If you don't write stuff off now, when everyone else is showing earnings, you'll have to be writing stuff off and won't be able to compete.

Not to sound like a nay-sayer...

[Rev.LoveJoy]

But with the power glut that's become the norm of a 'household' PC and the general economic slow down of late, news like this strikes me as making sense...

However, the line about Intel "aggressively pricing" their P4's is just so much CNN tripe. A quick look at Sharkey's Extreme Weekly CPU prices shows this to be BS.

(hint: top of the line AMD - 100 bucks, Intel -- 500 bucks)

- Cheers
- RLJ

I'm no economist

[sllort]

'We're consolidating all of our offering behind Intel, which was the biggest part of our mix already.'

So, because consumer spending is down, Gateway is discontinuing its' discount line of computers. Because consumers want to buy more expensive computers when the economy is in trouble.

I must be missing something.

While the price war has left scars on each company, AMD's wounds have been more severe than its larger, deep-pocketed rival.

Now is the time for Intel to use all of its' financial muscle to crush AMD once and for all. This is capitalism. If Intel can continue bleeding longer by slashing prices below manufacturer cost, AMD will eventually run out of money. Once the economy picks back up, Intel will look out on the sunny pasture of monopoly, where it can play in peace with Microsoft now that the U.S. government has said "OK" to monopolies.

My advice: buy Intel stock.

Re:I'm no economist

[TheSHAD0W]

AMD isn't a small company, and its processor division is more valuable as a whole than if its assets are dispersed. Even if Intel managed to bankrupt AMD, someone would buy it. And after having bled itself for so long, Intel wouldn't have the resources to pick it up. TI or Fujitsu or NEC or some other happy semiconductor manufacturer would keep the CPUs coming.

Re:I'm no economist

[dvk]

> > 'We're consolidating all of our offering behind Intel,
> > which was the biggest part of our mix already.'
>
> So, because consumer spending is down,
> Gateway is discontinuing its' discount line of computers.
> Because consumers want to buy more expensive
> computers when the economy is in trouble.
>
> I must be missing something.

Yes. One thing that you are missing is that
a company Profit=Sales-Expense.

While the effect on sales for gateway is not easy
to predict (on one hand, pure supply/demand formula would,
as you indicated, decrease sales; on the other hand,
a lot of people buying Gateways would buy a more expensive
higher-clock-rated Intel box than AMD one).

However, the expense for Gareway would be
significantly reduced, because they would
eliminate R&D, support and manufacturing overhead
of having 2 families of systems instead of one.

-DVK

Re:I'm no economist

[Freedom Bug]

The problem is you're assuming that AMD will run out of cash first.

AMD has about $1 Billion in the bank. Intel has about $7 Billion in the bank. Intel's expenses are about 10 times as much as AMD. So if both companies were to give away their processors, Intel would run out of money first.

The assumption that Intel would automatically win a price war is very questionable.

Bryan

Re:I'm no economist

[mcelrath]

Sure...just like someone was willing to buy the defunct alpha line (which is licensable!) and continue producing this profitable, fastest-on-the-market chip.

I think you underestimate how stupid corporate CEO's are, and how greedy.

--Bob

Re:I'm no economist

[Grishnakh]

It's not so much about how stupid CEO's are, as how stupid consumers are. If it weren't for stupid consumers, Wintel wouldn't have become so powerful in the first place.

Re:I'm no economist

[mcelrath]

Yeah, I wish consumers would vote with their dollar. I really think I'm the only one. I keep a shit-list of companies that piss me off, and refuse to patronize them. I also try really hard not to buy from the biggest company in any given sector.

Some good it does.

--Bob

Penang Plant not closed

[efuseekay]

just "1300" reductions in job. That place employs tons of people.

At least that's what the local newspapers say.

Disclaimer : I'm from penang. But I'm not in penang.

big deal

[TheSHAD0W]

Yes, I heard AMD was going to close 2 fabs, and take a $100 million charge against earnings. I also heard it'd save $125 million a year doing it. Getting your money back in ten months isn't a bad thing.

As for Gateway, most of the people who buy them are the ones who are charmed by the sexy "Intel Inside" logo. Those of us who know better don't buy from Gateway anyway.

Incentive

[Rev.LoveJoy]

Stock in Rambus?

... kidding...
- rlj

Just accelerating plans...

[Freedom Bug]

There's not much unexpected here.

The plants being closed were mainly used for foundry business. AMD does not want to be a foundry: the TSMC's of the world do that much better, and AMD wants to focus on their core competencies: processors and flash. The foundry business is almost accidental. It generally comes from AMD spinoffs designing communications and analog IC's who were transitioning to traditional foundries. Now they'll just have to transition faster.

The Gateway move was also not unexpected. Gateway is in lots of trouble. They want their big friends (Intel) to help them out, and so they are demonstrating their loyalty to their big friends.

Bryan

Re:Just accelerating plans...

[Rimbo]

That does mitigate the news somewhat, but it's still bad news for AMD. Most people buy computers through large pre-built companies like Gateway and Dell, so losing a major OEM is going to hurt AMD's bottom line.

But this isn't the first fishy thing I've heard about how Gateway's running their business in the past year. It does seem suspicious that they would cut their more value-oriented lines right when those are what people are more likely to buy.

Re:Ouch...

[weslocke]

The G5 isn't going to make a lick o' difference. Afterall if someone's buying from Gateway in the first place, it implies that they're not technically oriented enough to build the system in the first place. Therefore they tend to not be 'up' on processor differences and whatnot, and will more than likely get (at least a bit of) a crashcourse in processor models, not to mention "Why the Mhz rating is important."

Nope, these people will only see "Apple" or "PC". And since everyone they know will be telling them to get a PC...

Not the end...

[rkischuk]

AMD clawed its way up on the merits of its products and zero OEM arrangements. In some ways, not having OEM arrangements is good, since computer manufacturers bully their suppliers down to razor thin margins. NVidia's increasing support for AMD should push things along in the end-user/gaming market, and the new multi-processor chipsets are helping AMD crack a market they've hardly touched - the server market.

The plants they are closing are their oldest plants, and coincide with a reduction in output that has been seen throughout the sector. It is even possible that it was becoming increasing difficult to find current products that these fabs were capable of producing.

This isn't the end of AMD, it just means they won't be posting earnings of 50 cents a share each quarter for a while. Intel's feeling the same crunch, and AMD's still got some decent cash reserves.

Gateway wasn't really "selling" Athlons anyway

[pythas]

Our company tried to buy 200 Athlon based systems from Gateway to replace our four year old Pentium Pro machines. They refused to deal at all with us. We couldn't get a configuration we wanted, even though it was clearly possible. They wouldn't give us an extended warranty or upgrade coupons.

Basically, they told us that "businesses don't want AMD, so we won't sell them to you."

Talked to an AMD Rep

[strictnein]

Sell computers for my job (in addition to being a full time CS student). I talked to the AMD rep who comes to our store. He had threemajor points:

One: no new processors from AMD anytime soon. Just renaming the processors and removing mention of the Athlon name (AMD 1600 for the 1.2 GHz, AMD 2100 etc).

Two: They are making a killing in the corporate market.

Three: There next big focus area is the laptop market. This will be the only place with "new" AMD processors. Most likely people will see more 1.0 GHz+ AMD based laptop systems soon.

Re:Talked to an AMD Rep

[Noehre]

Perhaps you should check your facts before spreading FUD?

AMD *is* releasing new processors shortly. Do you not remember the Palomino cored AthlonXP (or whatever they actually decide to call it)? This is destined to ship within the next month at around 1.53GHz.

And they aren't making a killing in the corporate market, so don't even try and pull that one out of your ass and call it objective fact. Meh.

Re:Talked to an AMD Rep

[Shadow99_1]

Um could you make worse guesses & maybe take a look at facts?

Here are some quick notes:
1- um they will still be named Athlon... In fact AMD AthlonXP 1600 is how I've seen a few system configs listed... & The whole AthlonXP series is set to release within the next few weeks... In fact it could be within 2 weeks if things go well...

2- um this is so silly I won't comment... Though I wish this was the case...

3- Compaq announced a 1.2 Ghz athlon4 based laptop yesterday... 1.1 Ghz Athlon4's were already out & have been for ~1 month...

I will add that AMD is still selling out all CPU's they can make... This alone states that demand has stayed high for their product & we should not worry that AMD is in trouble...

Re:Talked to an AMD Rep

[Matts]

Three: There next big focus area is the laptop market. This will be the only place with "new" AMD processors. Most likely people will see more 1.0 GHz+ AMD based laptop systems soon.

Great! Time to start selling heat resistant lap-covers. :-)

Capitalism in Action

[none2222]

The market is always right. If AMD has to close plants and lay-off employees, that means there aren't enough people buying AMD right now. This is what's so great about capitalism. Otherwise, these employees would be sitting around reading slashdot on company time and the plants would be sitting idle. This way, AMD keeps profits up and can survive to compete another day.

I don't see that there is much to worry about here. I'd be more concerned if AMD wasn't laying-off people. As it is, I think people have enough computer power for the time being. How many MHz does the average person/business really need?

There are always going to be adolescents out there who will buy the latest/greatest hardware just for the sake of it(and god bless 'em--they get fleeced and absorb research costs while we level-headed folks get affordable technology); but real people have enough computers right now.

Re:Capitalism in Action

[susano_otter]

The market is always right.

By what standard do you judge that the market is always right? Do you mean it literally? Do you mean it in theory? Do you mean it in practice?

Do you consider the fact that people buy things because they are told to do so by the manufacturer? That the only time a manufacturer needs to consider closing a factory is when they cannot successfully convince people to buy whatever that factory produces?

Are you saying "the market wants more Nikes, therefore it is right that more Nikes be produced and sold"?

I have a difficult time believing that the "market" desire for more Nikes is "right" in any meaningful way.

Re:Capitalism in Action

[zhensel]

Your forgetting that it's mid-september and this kid just aced his first econ 101 test. Let the flurrish of economic knowledge continue.

Re:Capitalism in Action

[tshak]

Disclaimer: Please don't respond to this post, it's just food for thought.

The market is always right. If AMD has to close plants and lay-off employees, that means there aren't enough people buying AMD right now. This is what's so great about capitalism.

... then why don't we say this about Microsoft?

Get Real man...

[Win-Developer]

I'd be curious to see how many AMD systems were purchased from Gateway over Intel Systems.

I'd also like to see how many Dell/Micron/other systems in the same price range were sold over the same time period.

Don't be so quick to automatically assume like a jackoff that Intel is behind this. If you're a major vendor like Gateway and people aren't buying your $999 AMD boxes, but instead are buying Dell/Micron/other $999 Intel boxes and are outselling your AMD boxes 2:1(high end 4:1), would you waste money and capital trying to push AMD boxes?

Realize that I have no data to back up my ratios, it's just hypothetical until data is shown to prove otherwise, but realize this...people refuse to buy an unknown. I can't remember how many times I've seen people buy Sony TV's because("it's a Sony, it's the best") whereas a Samsung or Phillips TV might look better and cost less, but people just assume and don't even look at them.

Intel volume pricing?

[scott1853]

So is Intel making REALLY good deals to major manufacturers? AMDs are obviously the price/performance leader right now, so the only reason I could see a failing PC maker switching to the more expensive processor is if they aren't really more expensive. Or possibly the name game is coming into play here. Gateway is better consumers want PCs with a higher GHz value and will be willing to pay for a higher price.

No matter what the reason, bad move Gateway.

Although I must take the time to thank Gateway. Over the years they have provided my relatives with enough tech support to keep them from calling me. Hell, they spent 3 hours on the phone with my mom while she installed a new HD she bought at the local computer store, and her Gateway machine wasn't even under warranty anymore. Gee, ya think that could be part of the reason they're having trouble now?

Re:Intel volume pricing?

[BadBlood]

Hell, they spent 3 hours on the phone with my mom while she installed a new HD she bought at the local computer store, and her Gateway machine wasn't even under warranty anymore. Gee, ya think that could be part of the reason they're having trouble now?

Perhaps, but if that will convince your mother to make her next purchase from Gateway, then it was worth it. I've always maintained that customer service is the key to repeat business. Short-term thinkers don't always see this.

Re:Intel volume pricing?

[scott1853]

Her next computer was a Micron, price beat service.

Here's an Idea

[ClubPetey]

This might be a little off-topic, but as far as I see it, the problem with Gateway not being able to support a line of computers that does sell that many, is the support cost behind it. You need AMD-knowledgeable tech support, different MoBos, different assemblies, etc.

Dell, IBM, etc. all have the same problem. And it all seems to be related to the fact that the support costs for a low-margin, low-sales product line is too high. So why are the costs so high? From my experience, it's customer support. Too many people don't know how to use a computer and call (harass) the computer companies tech-support for the most minor of issues.

So I was thinking... let's turn it around. Create a computer company for smart people. Do not offer tech support. Do not offer customer service (outside of basic order processing) Just assemble and ship the product. If you don't know how to use it, don't buy it from us. A side benefit of this idea would be that "hard-core" computer geeks can stop wandering from site to site to build their computers. Since there's little over-head to cover, prices will stay cheap.

The same idea can be applied to ISPs. The major cost of an ISP is the customer support staff to go along with it. I'm sure there's a LOT of people out there that would gladly save 10%-25% of their Internet fee in exchange for having no customer support (since most people-in-the-know don't use it anyway).

Re:Here's an Idea

[ClubPetey]

Those Sir, are fighting words! *throws down gauntlet*

HEH... just kidding. Actually, I like doing the research, the part that is frustrating is having to buy the components from so many different places to get a good deal.

One company has cheap RAM, but marks up CPUs, one has cheap CPUs, but marks up Drives. And then every two weeks they change which are good deals. (thank god for PriceWatch). The companies I GUESS hope that you will buy their marked up products along with their sale items to avoid multiple shipping charges. All it does is piss me off. One of these days someone will find out how to make money in Hardware.

Re:Here's an Idea

[RainbowSix]

Check out http://www.flex.com/sign_up/ if you are in Hawaii. $10 a month for unlimited dial up. No tech support. They give you the numbers you need and that's it. Best of all, they bash AOL users and post their hate mail :)

Re:Here's an Idea

[UnifiedTechs]

They have this type of ISP in California already!

www.yuppiegeek.net

$8 for unlimited dial-up... and they are working on a deal to go national.

I won't lie this is run by a friend of mine so I may be biased, but it is a good deal if you know what you are doing.

AMD Products

[mach-5]

I will continue to purchase and recommend AMD products for my customers. Just because Gateway is leaving them behind doesn't mean the rest of the world should too. Buy what you think is best, and what you can trust.

Gateway jumps ship again...

[Krieger]

Somehow I'm not surprised. Gateway has been consistently using AMD as a bargaining chip with Intel. They have now twice adopted AMD lines and dropped them when they thought they could get a better deal from Intel.

I suspect that AMD will pull through this, and most likely will re-activate the foundries when they need more capacity, though that might take some time as they still haven't reached 100% at Dresden yet and they're already transitioning to 0.13 micron process.

What does confuse me is why AMD consistently adopts such low selling prices. I think that people would still buy their processors even if they tacked on a minimum of $50 on the high end, if not even $100. A full base system based on AMD costs $400 these days and for that you can't even get a high end P4.

Sometimes the market economy and technology adoption just confuses me. I mean we've had Firewire (IEEE 1394) for almost a decade and it's only just now catching on, and even now with great resistance... go figure.

Apple is

[Ghoser777]

Everytime I look up their stock report online, there's an accompanying stock analyst report saying how much their stock is undervalued. With education sales, excitement over the new iBooks, and 10.1 finally making OS X an OS that is stable AND resposnive, I expect apple to continue to be profitable through the 4 quarter.

And what apple has that a lot of companies do not have is an energized user base. How many people are really that excited about XP? How about a new Dell computer? These things just don't get people going like in the mac community. We're very enthusiastic about apple products and where they are going.

F-bacher

great move

[Ender Ryan]

Another great move by a PC manufacturer! Who needs the best chips on the market based on cost/performance anyway?

It never ceases to amaze me, the utter shit that PC manufacturers sell to people. Compaq, Dell, Gateway, etc., sell absolute complete shit. They're always trying to make it difficult to upgrade, or they're fucking up Windows and making it incompatible with Office(yes, Compaq did this once... talk about an oversight), or combining good CPUs with shit for ram etc...

If you ask me, the only way to go when purchasing a PC is to buy the parts you want and put it together yourself. I have never seen an off-the-shelf PC that was something I would want to use.

No Surprise

[geekoid]

The AMD chips get so darn hot, gateway would need to build a bigger box(more$$), get a higher quality pwrspl(more$$).

FTR I own an AMD 1.4 and my midtower can't circulate enough air, even with a Dragon Orb 3.

A serious question for PC know-it-alls

[Uttles]

It's become ovbious to me with this story and others like it that the only way to get a PC that I really can have confidence in and rely upon is to build my own from the ground up. I know how to do this once I have all the parts in front of me, but I'm really out of the loop when it comes to where to get those parts. Anyone who has any suggestions, please submit a list of every component a standard PC would need and where it could be purchased, I'm sure many slashdotters could use it. Thanks in advance!

Re:A serious question for PC know-it-alls

[syrinx]

Go to Pricewatch.com, I have bought many computer parts from places I've found by searching there.

Re:A serious question for PC know-it-alls

[Brian Stretch]

See my homepage, where I detail the parts I used for my 1.4GHz Athlon machine for work. It's the third Athlon system I've built, preceeded by numerous 386/486/Pentium/PPro/K6 systems.

Antec has a new 350W p/s that makes a good, inexpensive choice for a single-CPU system, and they sell a nice midtower case that comes with it. I say "inexpensive" relative to the PC Power & Cooling gear I usually get.

Toy stores: MWave.com for selection, Newegg.com for price. I've bought a lot of stuff from MWave, haven't tried Newegg yet but will next chance I get, they're supposed to be good. EMS Computing has great prices on Antec stuff, I bought from them once, but their site is s-l-o-w.

Re:A serious question for PC know-it-alls

[snake_dad]

Return question: is this so hard in the usa? Here in my medium-size city in the Netherlands there are at least 5 shops that sell components. Ofcourse they also offer complete (customizable) systems, but their main business is parts.
Building your own system is a lot cheaper than buying a ready-made system (especially if you buy from different shops), and you have control over which components make up your system. I like it :)
OOTR: not one (read "none") of the people I know have bought an Intel system recently. They all bought AMD...

I wish people would stop saying the word recession

[Ghoser777]

I remember when Bush kept talking about our economy being on the path to a recession several months ago. It sent chills down my spine everytime he said it. What kept the boom economy of the 90's going was what Alan Greenspan called "Irrational Exuberance" - people where so confident in the economy that they invested more than any economic indicator would have shown.

But now, if we start talking about out economy in a negative manner, we're settings us up for "Irrational Fear," where people think the economy is worse than it really is and pull lots of money out. Just the word recession can get stock holders antsy.

One of the main reasons that several business are now having problems is that a lot of people are holding onto more of their money instead of spending it and putting these people to work. Recession -> hold onto money -> more job cuts -> more recession -> hold onto more money -> ...

I don't have to remind programmers what happens to their apps when they get stuck in infinite loops...

F-bacher

Re:This doesn't mean anything!

[b0r1s]

the ability to overclock a chip says nothing for the quality of that chip .... i've never seen anyone throw away a processor out of a sun box because it couldnt be overclocked... besides, nobody overclocks in real situations, as it's known to cause computational errors. So, go ahead, buy your cheap $50 durons, and coverclock them to your heart's delight, but realize that that is NOT how businesses who buy systems operate, and what works in your house doesnt work for large companies.

Re:Hot CPUs

[ZeLonewolf]

I agree completely, kbyrd... When building a PC for my parents, I was forced to not run distributed.net due to overheating issues. From a price and performance standpoint, AMD is clearly whooping Intel's butt... From an engineering standpoint, I am astonished that AMD has put out a product with such a questionable durability.

Looks like Dresden is their future

[fobbman]

I'm not sure about their Malaysian fab, but the one in Austin was only producing Durons at the end, with all of the Thunderbirds coming out of their new Dresden, Germany fab. Dresden was built to encorporate copper interconnects into the chip, and Austin was never upgraded.

Last I heard Dresden wasn't anywhere near capacity, so I guess that it's not too surprising that they would move production over there with their future lines.

on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends

[Zen Mastuh]

I have had my fill of corporate cynicism in recent weeks. For once, I wish owners of corporations would pick a year (this year, maybe?) to not make a profit. Year after year, in all industries, the fruits of innovation and automation flow to the investor class. The flow appears to only go in one direction, for a slight recession and a single day of terrorism have spawned an outbreak of Layoff-itis. People everywhere are being layed off--an action with permanent results--in response to temporary conditions, all to maintain the level of profit that the Leech Class has grown accustomed to.

Now AMD joins the long list of companies perpetrating vast economic terrorism against people whose only crime is filling out a job application and working diligently day after day. Who will feed these 2,300 families and the ~100,000 families who were likewise fucked by the airline industry? Who will comfort the children whose parents commit suicide in desperation?

These are the people who make our laws, fill our heads with memes designed to guarantee permanently increasing profits, poison our water, and drag us into international conflict. Like the gods, they kill us for their sport. Have no sympathy for them--sell off all your stock and kiss those motherfuckers goodbye.

Jesus of Nazareth said something once that has perhaps never been more true: Money is the root of all evil.

Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends

[zhensel]

What's disappointing to me is not so much that people were laid off - the airlines and AMD were respectively both in dire financial straits before the WTC disaster. The real issue is that rather than making sensible decisions, companies time their layoffs to make it have the least impact on their stock valuation. The airlines reacted now, because, hell, their stock is going to bomb anyway. AMD announces it's going to post a loss and knows it may as well pile on the layoffs, not much more damage. Not only that, but it makes them look like they are "restructuring" which makes investors happy. I worked at a company that was consistently doing poorly, and it was evident from inside the company, but they posted cheery quarterly reports. Then one quarter they lump all of their losses together, lay off a few people, and take it all on the chin. This financial maneuvering is pretty ridiculous and cheats the public and the company's investors.

I think I digressed more than enough there - essentially it's disgusting that companies exploit the WTC disaster to raise their stock valuation. The same way that it's dispicable that the next day senators were tacking missile defense amendments onto critical relief packages (luckily failing) and that Israel attacked a city it had been besieging. A big news item like the WTC disaster essentially blacks out all other news, and the exploitation of that factor was pathetic.

Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends

[Zen Mastuh]

How do you expect these "owners of corporations" to pay their employees, invest in new technology, put money away for the proverbial "rainy day," etc. if they don't make a profit?

You are speaking of Expenses, which are deducted from Revenues to arrive at another figure called Profit, and Capital Expenditures, which are amortized as Expenses over arbitrarily chosen periods of time. My friend, it is time for you to enroll at your local institution of higher learning.

My earlier rant was based upon years of direct experience, observation, and the realities of capitalist dogma. The majority owners of nearly all U.S. corporations make up the richest 5% of the population. The minority owners are middle-class folk like you and I who have 401Ks and mutual funds. Each year, the majority owners place an order for the profit they would like to receive in the next year. Management seeks that level of profit, as Malcolm X would say, "by any means necessary".

They operate on many fronts:

• The memetic front: my bottle of Tylenol© says "Now packed without cotton!" on the label, as if I am receiving some additional benefit from a middle manager's decision to drop the cotton.
• The labor front: slash as many jobs as possible, because the government will pick up the tab for 26 weeks.
• The legislative front: give plenty of bribes^H^H^H^H^H^H political donations, so that your trade association can bring your plight to Congress, ensuring safety from those dreaded hackers.

Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends

[zhensel]

Hmmm... the crash in PC buying and the fact that this announcment coincided with AMD announcing a probable loss this quarter.

Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends

[IronChef]

The majority owners of nearly all U.S. corporations make up the richest 5% of the population. The minority owners are middle-class folk like you and I who have 401Ks and mutual funds.

Why not stop complaining and try to get into that 5%? Start a business. If you get rich then you can advance your agenda more effectively, whatever it is.

Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends

[Graymalkin]

And your problem with capitalism is exactly? You sound like you're pissed you don't know how to make it into the top 5%. Do you think that some other non capitalistic system is run by benevolent fucking people? That is a pretty ridiculous assumption. Your years of direct experience, observation, and the realities of capitalist dogma pin you at about 16 and you've just begun to question your social value system. Good job dude I hope your philosophies work out for you. Just remember though, I'm a fan of capitalism and I'm armed and I'm not the only one. So if you're looking for a change in lifestyle you should look into relocating. Lots of dudes throughout history have had similar rants about free markets being unfair, they were usually beneficiaries of said markets and didn't know the feeling of going from having nothing and with some ingenuity ending up with alot more than they started with. There's little mobility in a system with articially imposed demand for production. Greed is a much better motivator.

A bit yanked from hardocp.com

[weslocke]

I snatched this from [H]ard|OCP since it was pretty darned relevent.

Regarding the AMD - Gateway stories, just remember that AMD isn't "suffering a blow" per se, as some people have been saying in relationship to this article. PC Sales have slumped BAD over the last year, Gateway and Dell have both been laying people off...etc. These are extremely tough times right now everywhere...not just the PC sector. Things are going to be rough for a while.

In response to stories today about AMD's business relationship with Gateway, please consider the following information:

Gateway continues to sell the Gateway Select 1400, a performance PC based on the 1.4GHz AMD Athlon(tm) processor. ( http://www.gateway.com/home/price/1000_1500.shtml ) AMD plans to continue working with Gateway to determine how AMD can help meet the needs of Gateway's customers. Computer manufacturers refresh their product offerings on a cyclical basis throughout the year. We work with them during each design cycle to determine how AMD's processors can meet the needs of their customers. This is an ongoing process, and we are always competing for business.

AMD's products are used by computer manufacturers around the globe. AMD's OEM partners sell more AMD processor-based systems today than ever before in the company's 32-year history. In the most recently-completed quarter, AMD experienced record unit microprocessor sales of our award-winning AMD Athlon and AMD Duron processors. In addition, AMD's worldwide unit market share for x86 processors has risen from 16.2 percent in Q499 to greater than 22 percent for Q201, according to Mercury Research. AMD today has the most diverse microprocessor portfolio in the company's history. We are providing our partners with leading solutions for desktop and notebook computers, and multiprocessor servers and workstations.

Re:This doesn't mean anything!

[jandrese]

Yes, the extra $400 is worth it to let you forget to install the heatsink.

Granted the thermal protection is a pretty major oversight on AMDs part, but it's not the killer feature in my book. I consider low cost and performance to be the killer features of a processor.

My advice: Install a good heatsink correctly the first time and pocket the difference.

For Gateway, Intel = safer

[Old Man Kensey]

Brento wrote:

I'm stunned that the price difference in the CPU alone wouldn't be enough to keep Gateway using AMD, but there you have it.

I think it's less "cheaper" (though they'll tell investors that... and in some intangible way, they might be right) than it is "safer".

One: Intel is a brand name everybody knows from the catchy TV ads. We know the Bunnymen, we know Blue Man Group. They make us laugh and give us warm fuzzies about Intel.

(Side rant: this points up that companies that do not advertise, cannot displace a well-known, dominant player. The mass market will not buy your product if they've never heard of you. It's practically a law of nature. I've never seen an AMD ad on network TV... could that just possibly start to explain why consumers don't care about them?)

Two: AMD is literally a bigger risk physically. I think by now we've all seen the videos of AMD chips turning themselves into slag when they lose cooling. Nobody wants to be the PC maker getting sued because their PC caused a fire that did $300,000 worth of damage to some CTO's house in Ritztown. Even less do they want to the PC maker whose halted-and-caught-fire box burns down some working-poor family's two-room cottage, breaking them financially. Until AMD does something about their (lack of) resistance to cooling failure, I sure wouldn't put it in a computer I built for my family and I probably wouldn't run it myself either. Given the videos I'm surprised UL approved their chips (or did they?)

Re:For Gateway, Intel = safer

[Old Man Kensey]

An AC wrote:

Do you seriously think an AMD chip can cause your house to burn down?

Do I think it's likely to? No. Do I think it's possible? Absolutely. And if I'm building PCs for sale to the public, I'm going to want to minimize the chance that somebody will do something totally daft that leads to a fire when my product fails.

Not to say I think this was a big concern to Gateway, but it's one of those things that floats around the back of a product director's head when he's deciding which side to lean toward.

Re:Engineering Acumen vs. Market Share

[Jburkholder]

>sheer engineering acumen (AMD).

yah, now if they could just figure out how to keep the heatsinks from falling off so that the processors don't fry in, like, 1/4 second.

*ducks*

It's called playing the marketing numbers.

[1nt3lx]

The top of the line AMD is a 1.4ghz T-bird on a 266mhz FSB. Which, you are right, is priced at ~100. (Marketing: apple [the fruit])

The top of the line Intel is a 2.0ghz on a 400mhz FSB. And actually the price is $570. (Marketing: orange)

You are right, the top of the line is ~$500, but Intel's top of the line carries larger numbers.

Of course, MHZ isn't an acurate scale of performance or power, but it is the scale looked at by home and business consumers.

To see where the price war is you need to look at the Pentium 4 1.4ghz (400mhz FSB). That little cpu is priced at $114. A very (price wise) competitive product. (Marketing: apple [the fruit])

It comes down to comparing apples with oranges, really. It is a nice way to try to prove a point, but still wrong.

Just remember, AMD was proud to use a mhz rating to describe its chips back when it held the highest.

Finally, the public can never be made aware of how little mhz has to do with actual performance because it already realize mhz isn't entirely accurate, it just isn't willing to invest the time and effort to investigate actual performace data.

I can see it now.
Circuit City Rep.: "Can I help you?"
Customer: "Yes, what does this mean: AMD Athlon 3.921k D.ALU"
Circuit City Rep.: "Derstern Arth.. Er, that's the number of additions it can do a minute."
Customer: "But it's cheaper than this Intel Pentium 4 2.0ghz. Something doesn't seem right, this must be a better computer. My old computer is only a 300mhz, what does that mean?"
Circuit City Rep.: "Well 2.0ghz is 2000mhz."
Customer: "I'll take the pentium."

Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (well...

[Reality Master 101]

Actually, the theme is totally and completely different. And profound. Learn the difference, and Be Enlightened.

I first read the topic as

[Yosho]

"AMD to Close Pants, Lay --" at this point I did a double-take and realized my error, but still, it was amusing.

Re:I wish people would stop saying the word recess

[Brian Stretch]

Two points:

1) Bush's point was that keeping federal taxes at record levels, higher than during World War 2, was risking recession. Which was (and still is) true. The Democrats amplified it in the news by relentlessly pounding Bush over it, which was hypocritical as hell because:

2) Remember the '92 Clinton/Gore campaign mantra about the "WORST ECONOMY IN 50 YEARS!"? Which besides being irresponsible was also a blatent lie, given the mess of the Carter Administration twelve years before.

Other than that, yup, psychology is a bitch, and I hope we don't get stuck in that negative feedback loop. It'd be nice if Bush used his current popularity to push thru both corporate welfare cuts and tax cuts, maybe even radical tax simplification (Flat Tax), but it's not likely to happen.

Great FUD!

[SaDan]

Do AMD processors make a small mushroom cloud when you try to run them without a heatsink? Yes.

Moral of the story: Use a heat sink. Duh.

Tom's review was about as impressive as Consumer's Digest reporting that if you order a new Ford Focus without a radiator, the engine might explode. '

Common sense, people. Sheesh...

Blame it on the Gateway cow!

[peter303]

In those recent Gateway TV commercial a cow has
been telling the Gateway CEO how to run his business.

Re:I wish people would stop saying the word recess

[mandolin]

Recession -> hold onto money -> more job cuts -> more recession -> hold onto more money -> ...

I don't have to remind programmers what happens to their apps when they get stuck in infinite loops...

So what does that make the "Irrational Exuberance" bit? Stack overflow?

Re:About the 'monopoly' claims

[dpilot]

>My theory is that Intel made none of your claimed hidden monopolistic dealings, and that Gateway
>chose to drop AMD for cost reasons, just like the article suggests.

The way I hear that the Intel pricing model works, there are prices, and there are rebates. Pretty much everyone pays the prices, but the rebates go to the 'faithful'. The way the PC marketplace has been working, the rebate makes the difference between profit and loss on a box. Kind of like the way Microsoft effectively licenses per-CPU, even though calling it that was declared illegal.

Sigtalk

[fm6]

Lbh ner va ivbyngvba bs gur QZPN.

That's easy for you to say!

Re:Engineering Acumen vs. Market Share

[VAXman]

Both AMD and Intel were formed out of Fairchild. Jerry Sanders was a salesman at Fairchild, and left Fairchild to start AMD. Robert Noyce and Gordon Moore were the top engineers at Fairchild (Noyce built the first silicon integrated circuit there, and Moore was one of the most prominent engineers there), and they went on to form Intel.

The tradition continues today: AMD lives mostly off of sleazy marketing (PR ratings, anyone?) which Intel has made, and continues to make, very significant innovations (first semiconductor RAM, first microprocessor, first OOO processor, first MT processor, AGP, PCI, USB) while I can't think of a significant 'first' or industry standard which AMD invented.

Slashbots on the Rampage

[Detritus]

I find it highly entertaining to read all of the knee-jerk responses that say that anyone who buys Intel is an idiot, a victim of Intel propaganda or that AMD is the target of a dark conspiracy. In the real world, there are often other considerations in selecting a CPU other than game benchmarks. If you like AMD systems, fine. That doesn't mean that anyone who makes another choice is a luser.

Go ahead, mod me down. I've got plenty of karma points to burn.

Re:Hot CPUs

[spiro_killglance]

If the CPU overheating is a problem change the
heatsink. You've probably got a cheap OEM
heatsink, get a good one.

Re:the bigger question.... who's left?

[bstadil]

Compaq & HP, but trouble ahead for AMD if their silly merger goes ahead. Rationalizing the PC line might be bad for AMD. Second HP/ Compaq are unlikely to go with the 64 bit AMD Hammer family as they are fasttracking to IA64 / Itanium

Chose foo today - you can still chose bar tomorrow

[DunbarTheInept]

But then corporate america is stupid for thinking that an AMD purchase today ties one to an AMD purchase tomorrow. It's not like that. If they are concerned with the fact that intel is more likely to come out with new stuff than AMD what stinking difference does that make to the purchase they make today of comparable CPU's? CPU's don't get upgraded like software does. They just get thrown out and you purchase another, typically with a new motherboard too since you probably need it to handle a new chip if it's been more than a year or so since your last purchase - so motherboard/cpu compatability for the future isn't an issue either. If you replace your cpu/motherboard with a new intel one tomorrow, you still purchase it from scratch anyway whether your current setup is intel or AMD.

Marketing wins again.

[supabeast!]

Companies like AMD will never learn the real secret to winning wars in this industry: better marketing. Did Microsoft win with excellent, low cost products? Did Iomega? Did AOL? does anyone? NO.

AMD needs to just suck it up and start blowing a ton of money on advertising like intel does. They need to bribe, err, encourage PC makers to advertise using AMD CPUs. They need to constantly reengineer things in senseless ways that scre consumers and make them money.

In reality, the only way AMD can last is to stop being AMD.

Re:Hot CPUs

[IronChef]

Exact same problem on a K6-2 450. Have to run it at 300MHz, and that's even with a nice heat sink/fan. Still a lot better than the P133 it replaced... but I hate paying for something I'm not getting.

Re:Relates to previous article...

[IronChef]

And without us product managers, you programmmers won't have... uh, you won't have...

Crap! I've become irrelevant. Time to start a business, or turn to a life of crime.

Re:This doesn't mean anything!

[Barbarian]

Funny, my overclocked system never has any "computational errors." In fact, it has been up for a few months now without a reboot. It would be up more, but I just can't stand to leave it on during a thunderstorm without a UPS!


Go run an intense numerical simulation (FPU and integer at the same time) on it, like one that takes an hour, and generates a large output, and then compare it to when you run it at normal clock speed.

I don't mean Prime95 or Seti@Home. I mean like a reservoir simulator.

Re:Great FUD!- no probs w/my 700Mhz slot A

[budgenator]

run quiet, no noticable spurious crashes. No way to fit it in a 1U case!

News is no big deal

[walterbyrd]

Dont' let the market's knee-jerk reaction fool you.

Fabs 14 and 15 are antiquated. They were built in 1985. They do not manufacture flash, Athlons nor Durons. They manufacture chips for a business that was sold to LSCC called Vantis. These fabs were not being used because LSCC has a 9 month inventory on hand. Now was a good time to renegotiate the contract manufacturing with LSCC and shift the responsibility to a lower cost contract fab such as TSMC. In doing so AMD cuts costs.

Also, Gateway has not been a huge AMD customer anyway.