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Songfile (lyrics.ch) Trails Off
dave256 writes: "I was recently wandering about looking for some lyrics and CD track listings, and going to my good old standby, lyrics.ch (and summarily suffering through the redirection to songfile), I noticed a notice:'On September 30, 2001, the International Lyrics Server website will be closed and all lyrics will be removed from the Songfile web site.
Thank you for your support, and we appreciate your past patronage.
Please direct any questions or inquiries regarding this change to lyrics@harryfox.com.' Who was this masked harryfox.com? Boy was I (not) surprised. I for one will miss the old beast."
The lyrics.ch site has survived some tough times before, so perhaps this isn't really its end.
Since the first copyright dispute, they've used a Java applet that doesn't allow cutting and pasting, or paging through...
It can't be copied unless you somehow intercepted the packets - and even then, that's a lot of work when some other website will probably have printed the lyrics anyway.
So long, lyrics.ch. We hardly knew ya.
I checked with whois, and the Harry Fox Agency owns the
domain. They didn't take ownership of it recently because
whois says that the record was last updated on 5/23/01. Maybe
this is nothing new for everyone else, but I didn't realise
it until now.
lyrics.ch was a great tool. I'm a poet (of sorts) and a musical artist. Not giving my audience access to my material doesn't make sense. Artists produce art to be enjoyed by others and to get themselves off.
By making the art harder to obtain keeps the audience from enjoying the art. It doesn't make sense. It's too ironic. It's not like the artist is going to be making much money selling song books and lyric books.
I know of one artist group that publishes their lyrics via the web, www.beastieboys.com. Let us support and rejoice in the Beastie Boys.
funk
--- rapper/producer/bachelorette party stripper
Just type "band name" "song name".
Somebody always has it.
Basic order of the events was this:
1. They had a nice lyrics website with every lyric for just about every somewhat well-known song.
2. Someone in the Industry didn't like it.
3. The Industry asked them to remove some songs.
4. Site maintainers couldn't.
5. After largish mess, the site reopened in a vastly less useful form - most of the lyrics (that weren't "copyright checked") were unavailable, and the remainder of the lyrics were displayed using Java applet that didn't allow printing or stuff. Lyrics themselves were encrypted.
6. Since it couldn't really be used, it stopped being an useful resource...
Some time later, they proposed doing the same thing to Napster. "Make them stop distributing our copyrighted works for free and make them use a format that no one will use when there's other (admittedly less 'easy' but at least non-crippled) alternatives available."
However, unlike Napster, lyrics.ch was an "ethical" service, even when it bordered on the dark edge of the international copyright law.
I really don't see what problem the song copyright holders have with distributing lyrics and guitar tabs - Especially when they're not selling that information themselves. (I would be really happy if all CDs would come with lyrics... or, alternatively, the musicians would learn to pronounce the words clearly enough so we dumb foreigners could make any sense of them =)
In its original form, Lyrics.ch caused me to buy more music than I ever had before. Not even Napster gets me that motivated to go out and buy CD's (although the RIAA makes it very hard to get motivated about being overcharged, but I digress). It was very easy for me to search for a song from over 15 years ago and find out what it was. With that knowledge I would look for the best priced CD containing that song.
After Lyrics.ch got raided it had no use. For a long time there were no lyrics up. When they did get lyrics back the site was rendered sterile. There were so few lyrics you had a better chance using Yahoo! or Altavista (no Google back then) to find the lyrics.
When Songfile took over it was no better. Many lyrics are up, but I don't want to liscence a song just to know if it is the one I am thinking of.
Is it just me, or does the RIAA make you feel like you're being shat upon? Almost any other industry would be enthused people used your service for such things.
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
Yeah good ol' Harry Fux pulled the same crap with The OnLine Guitar Archive. I haven't been there in a while, but looks like they're up and running succesfully. I checked their About Page and at the bottom it mentions they need funds to pursure a case about the legality of "by ear" transcriptions. I've donated in the past and I think I'll do it again now...
It was killed because the big companies had already realised (pre-Napster) that in order to continue spewing the silliness they tried to allege in courts, they had to control every aspect of the music they published and take every case of "infringement" seriously. US law requires this to some extent, but Sony, Warner and Bertelsmann are willing to go that extra mile.
The spread of lyrics for any song -- even from this week's latest gyrating girl or cool neat-o boy group -- enhances sales. However, in order to control the copyrights, the publishers will not even license rights to reproduce these lyrics. Instead, you must go to the band's official site (usually within the record company's domain), where you can not only see the lyrics (if you provide enough personal information), but you also have the "opportunity" to buy lots more merchandise. You are a "consumer".
So forget something sensible, like the centralised, optimised and simplified lyrics.ch database. Give up on ideas that make life a little easier for "consumers" but might deny a copyright holder a possible extra $0.00013 from a banner impression.
Of course, you can always search Google for "<band name> AND <song title> AND (lyrics OR text OR words)" and find the lyrics elsewhere. Works for finding guitar tabs, too. But the centralised database which was organised to provide you with the information you wanted -- how you wanted it -- instead of advertising and enticement to further purchase is history.
I already mourned the loss of this site almost four years ago. What HFA did to it once they got control made it unusable. I haven't been there since.
woof.
If I had a penny for every Goth girl Web page with Cure lyrics, I'd have $89,317.74
So the corporations want to make money from you and you don't want them to.
So stop buying their stuff.
Stop buying CDs. Make your own music. See live music. Stop buying DVDs. Stop seeing blockbusters. Go to the theatre. Support your local independent filmmakers.
That will hurt the big guns and support those who really need it. Who cares if you don't get to see or hear the latest stuff: it's mostly rubbish, you certainly won't suffer for the lack of it, and hell, you might even learn something new.
Then you were never looking at the International Lyrics Server. You were looking at the thing that killed the International Lyrics Server.
Did anybody ever mirror the original ILS before the enemy destroyed it? Does anybody have backup tapes/CD-Rs?
Since the shutdown (and make no mistake, songfile.com was never useful as anything other than a way to find out that yes, Harry Fox owned the words, and wanted you to know they owned the words, and didn't want you to read them - or that they didn't own the words and therefore you couldn't read them) seems that bandwidth has gotten accessible enough that such a thing, if it exists, could be discreetly distributed via one of the many P2P applications, or posted to USENET via an open SOCKS proxy. Diskspace has also gotten cheap enough that individuals could host their own local copies of the pre-Foxsized ILS on their own hard drives.
Not that I'd encourage anyone to do such a thing. But it'd be kinda nice to see if someone were to independently come up with the idea of doing it.
Since some folks are having problems getting to the site, here are some addresses:
clientrelations@harryfox.com
licensing@harryfox.com
index@harryfox.com
pr@nmpa.org
This is the same deal as (g)napster. I absolutely hate listening to the radio, so the Internet is the only way for me to listen to something before I buy it. The music industry is making this more difficult, therefore, I buy less music.
When lyrics were more easily available and MP3s were more easy to get a hold of, I bought more music.
It never ceases to amaze me how hostile this industry is to it's best customers...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
I encountered a similar stupid idea a while back.
:-)
The site was a link resource site which used an applet to "decrypt" the links they had, in order to prevent link napping.
The applet wanted to perform some things not supported by the applet sandbox IE prompted me to give the applet the required privileges.
Since I'm not keen on running code from "John Doe" I wanted to see what it did and thus decompiled the applet. It took me about 15 minutes to CP (cut'n paste) the decoding code into a new app which created link pages in normal HTML without an applet.
The same was true for this particular applet. With a few modifications, there is now a "Save lyrics" button on the applet
Without saying, using an applet as the means of decrypting content which one wants to protect is not a good idea at all.
In a society that believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda ~ Bill Durodié
Seriously. Just search for {lyrics In A Gadda Da Vida}. It might take 15 seconds longer to find lyrics through Google. But there are so many personal lyrics pages right now that it's going to take the RIAA a while to put a sufficient dent in those sites.
That's a shame about songfile.
I however have been using SongMeanings as of late. For you Winamp users, there is also a plugin that will display the lyrics for your currently playing song.
There are some songs that I would have thought would be on there that aren't, but you can always add your own if they are missing.
The Online Guitar Archive, a collection of guitar tablature. Harry Fox is a representative of the record industry that believes sites such as these are violating the artist's copyright.
I wrote a paper on this in college. Here are the pertinent parts.
{snip)
OLGA's Dilemma
On June 9th, 1998, The Online Guitar Archive (OLGA) closed its doors. They closed because the Harry Fox Agency, a representative of music publishers, threatened litigation against OLGA on the basis that OLGA distributes copyrighted material unlawfully. According to Margaret Drum of the Harry Fox Agency: "Some sites have been closed down because they contain copyrighted material . . . the copyright owner can distribute their own [copyrighted material] - it can't be done by other people, and that's why it's considered an infringement" (Stutz). Drum has a valid point, and one that is relevant to a very important part her Agency's purpose: protecting the rights of music distributors. From such a specific (and biased) point of view as hers, the offering of a free alternative to something that many music distributors market is clearly a destructive thing. Drum and other associates at the Harry Fox Agency need to pick up a guitar and start trying to play one of their favorite songs. Commercially available guitar instructional material is mostly in the form of plain sheet music. Sheet music is extremely difficult to understand if you are a beginning musician. The inherent value to the guitar tablature OLGA offers is that it is easy to understand. And because it is easy to understand, even beginning guitarists can use it and learn how to play songs. Even for experienced guitarists, it makes the process of learning a new song easier and quicker. It is easy to see that by making the knowledge available to beginners and experienced users alike, OLGA is doing nothing to harm the music industry. It is helping it by allowing a greater number of people share in the pleasing feeling of learning and playing a song you heard on the radio. It could easily be construed that tablature is used to "teach" beginning guitarists how to play a song. Therefore, according to current copyright law the use of the material would be a "fair use."
The case of the Online Guitar Archive has made it clear that the current copyright laws are out of date and need to be revised. The dividing line between what is fair use and what isn't fair use is blurred. The answer is not to simply amend current United States Code the way the NET Act of 1997 does. The answer must lie in clearly spelling out what is and what isn't fair use of copyrighted material.
Execute? [Y/N] _
include a "+" sign before the word "and" to make "+and one" and google will force the include of the word "and".
If your band didnt 'make it big' maybe it's because they're making shit music that nobody wants to see live? People are STUPID if they think they can live off being in a band without HARD WORK! And even then, it's not guaranteed, just like life. Always have a backup skill..
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
I tried to work a licensing deal with lyrics.ch a few months ago. That's when I found out about Harry Fox Agency's involvement. HFA listened politely to our proposal, and then let us know they were going to hold off on licensing lyrics for a while. I got the sense that they're working on trying to monetize that resource themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if we see that as a bargaining chip in MusicNet or Pressplay negotiations, and perhaps one of those services will offer access to lyrics with your subscription. Joy...
nonsig. unsig. desig.
A question for the audience: are DJ's around the world as bad are they are here (Wichita, KS)? Specifically, these morons seem to think we tune in to hear their lips flap - they talk over the intro to the song, right up to (and often past) the point where the lyrics start, and then start yapping at the end of the song.
Is this just stupidity, vanity, or some vague and low-tech form of copy protection? Any DJ's out there that can answer?
It is so bad here that I no longer listen to the radio for any length of time (just in the mornings, for about 2 songs, on my clock radio. That way, the annoyance factor of the DJ's helps me wake up). I listen entirely to my own music collection the rest of the time.
These idiots seem to forget that if we aren't listening, we aren't pumping up their ad revenues. Of course, this also makes it hard to hear new music.
www.eFax.com are spammers
These talentless yahoos who run the recording industry know that technology will soon put them out of a job. The only reason for a record industry to exist is that you needed a lot of capital to press a n old fashoned vinel album. Now, with only a few thousand dollars, anyone can record and burn a CD as good in quality as one made by the recording industry ( of course, you need to have technical and musical talent :)
The only musicians who support the recording industry are those who've gotten really rich or hope to do so. But, like any gold rush, the rock and roll gold rush is over. Too many people now know how to play an electric guitar. Musicians can still be successful, but the days of instant riches for the lucky few are coming to a close.
That is how it should be. Talented, hard working people will always be able to make a living. The musicians who figure out how to make money w/o the record companies will be fruitful and happy.
The record industry is in a mad rush to frighten people out of their fair-use rights, using legal terrorism.
Just for the record, you do realize that you're now a felon under the DMCA, right? Not to say anything about the ethics of the situation, but The Man could throw you in the stripey hole for years, should this come to their attention.
Pretty absurd, huh? Write your congresscritters. Contribute to EFF. Fight to reverse the DMCA, before you end up fighting for reduced bail.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
Not that I'd encourage anyone to do such a thing. But it'd be kinda nice to see if someone were to independently come up with the idea of doing it.
Or even better, put them in some sort of de-centralized system (freenet? gnutella?) that isn't susceptable as someone like napster and the like.
Sadly, I didn't mirror anything from the original server, though it got me a lot of the information I needed at the time...
There will never be a web site that carries "every lyric ever made".The best place to look for lyrics would have to be using google (in the above method)to look in fan sites.Fan sites are much more devoted to there artists,which means that you usually won't get misprinted lyrics or some songs lacking. You can find a fan site for almost every popular and no so popular artist that ever existed(If there were good enough that you would want to search for their lyrics)and one of the main features of this sites are is the lyrics section.Today when we have an excellent search engine like google,i don't think that we should mourn lyrics.ch too much.
Another lyrics site that works great is this one that is hosted at Astralabs.
I first stumbled across lyrics.ch almost four years ago when I was taking a voice class (scoff now, and you may not kiss my ring later), and since then, I've found that that was the only place to find lyrics to many, many songs. Damn greedheads, anyhow.
One thing I wonder about: many of the songs at lyrics.ch are public domain - songs which have been around long enough that there is no copyright on them anymore. Does any intrepid soul have the wherewithal to mirror just those songs? Or will LarryWhoever do it as a public service?
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
In Europe, we have a thing called RDS - Radio Data system - I don't know if you have it in the states. RDS carries a thing called RT (radio text).
Virtually all radio stations support it. You press a button on the receiver and it tells you what song is playing, the weather, usually a url of the station.All new receivers basically support it as well.
Another thing you can do is just write down the time and date and then check the playlist on the website or send the radio station an e-mail. I have done that several times before I had an RT-capable radio or am in the car where only RDS is supported (automatic frequency switching, radio station name display) but not radio text as to not distract the driver).
Just for the record, you do realize that you're now a felon under the DMCA, right?
Just for the record, you're wrong.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
How so? He described creating a circumvention device to overcome security protecting copyrighted intellectual property from unpermitted use. Creation of such circumvention devices is expressly illegalized by the DMCA. So on what basis are you claiming otherwise?
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
Given that ``he'' appears to have a head with rocks in it rather than music with rocks in it, I'd say he was closer to Chrysoprase the loan-shark troll. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Fuck that! Hit them with vigor. You're just reading their site, of course.
sulli
RTFJ.
Quote of the day: ``Kill all of the lawyers! Let Satan sort them out!'' Where's a flaming arrow when you really need one? (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Describing such a device is not a felony. Even if that description could be considered trafficking (which I doubt it could), it was not done "willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain".
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
To be finicky about it, yes, his post was not a felony -- but that's not what I originally said in any case. He described the commission of a felony. That is, if he actually built a circumvention applet as he claimed, then in so doing he committed a felony. "Commercial advantage" is pretty broad, and can include something as simple as *enabling* the use of copyrighted material without permission, even if you personally do not make commercial use of that material. Just ask Dmitri Skylarov.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
"Commercial advantage" is pretty broad, and can include something as simple as *enabling* the use of copyrighted material without permission, even if you personally do not make commercial use of that material. Just ask Dmitri Skylarov.
I think you'd have a pretty tough time convincing a jury of that. I'm certainly not convinced. Another point to be made is that the DMCA is not enforcible as interstate commerce when there is no commerce taking place. The government would then have to rely on the copyright clause, and fair use would almost certainly kick in.
What Sklyarov (!) allegedly did was not even remotely similar. He was allegedly engaging in international commerce for profit. That is a much different situation, from a constitutional standpoint, from a legal (DMCA) standpoint, and from a standpoint of juror sympathy.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?