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German Gov't, Free Software, and Secure E-mail

Posted by Hemos on from the germans-take-the-lead dept.

friday2k writes "There is a nice Article on Newsforge describing how the German Government moves ahead on looking into Free Software solutions for government agencies. And you need a standard, secure, email client for this." Basically, they are funding some good secure e-mail - but making sure that it works with stuff like Kmail.

232 comments

  1. Why not just use KMail by HasH_Browns37 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ITs secure and uses pgp. Oh yea the US govt is about to outlaw that. Sorry
    -HasH_Browns

    --

    scattered covered smothered chunked

  2. Who woudl've thunk it.. by Sir_Real · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Germany... Last bastion for open communcation? Give it twenty years... The U.S. govt. is doing it's best to shove the genie back into the bottle... Shouldn't this be a sign to them?

    1. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Last bastion for open communcation?

      Yeah, sure, when they believe in freedom of speech

    2. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      All the more reason for Germany to be interested in encryption. The U.S. might be shoving the genie back in the bottle for normal citizens, but you can bet that the government itself will continue to use encryption.

      Likewise the Germans know that they can't run their government without encryption, but they realize that they can't expect the U.S. based software industry to supply it, and they can't really trust the U.S. based software industry not to create backdoors in the software they do supply. So the Germans are doing the only sane thing. They are writing their own crypto programs.

      This is why the U.S. will fail to crack down on encryption. The genie is loose, and there are too many people that want it to stay loose.

    3. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by austad · · Score: 2

      The fact is that the genie is out of the bottle. Making laws which outlaw strong encryption are only going to be followed by John Q. Nerd, and not by terrorist organizations.

      It's closed-minded people like you that are getting our freedoms taken away because you don't realize that making a law isn't going to solve a damn thing. It's just going to take away the freedom of lawful citizens. Do you really think that Bin Laden is going to say "Oh crap, the US has made PGP illegal, I will uninstall it and use my captain zero decoder ring instead?" No, he's going to use it anyway. You can't irradicate the internet of the strong encryption that is already out there, it's impossible, especially since it's perfectly legal in many other countries.

      --
      Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
    4. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 2

      I assume you're trolling, but what the hell -- bin Laden's been giving our intelligence people fits, in large part because he not only doesn't use encrypted email, he doesn't use email. He avoids telephones. He seems to favour couriers: real, physical people traveling in meat space with messages they've memorized. Go figure.

      --

      This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

    5. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      Of course, it was US intelligence people that trained him, in part, in the first place.

      The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    6. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by Malcontent · · Score: 2

      and recruited him too.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    7. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      There is no proof at all that terrorists use encription. All email found was plain text, some used a "secret words" code. They sometimes used Arabic or other languages which made it hard for "intelligence" to understand it.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    8. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by T-Punkt · · Score: 1

      And disallowing encryption will stop terrorists from using it?

      So why not outlaw hijacking planes and flying them into buildings as well?

      ... wait, I think it is already outlawed...

    9. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by germann · · Score: 1

      You won't believe it, but gnupg.org seems to be a german site, and it cites a privacy protection article from the 'Grundgesetz'.
      Apart from that, german government finacial support for GPG development started over one year ago, main goal being to support reliable protection from economic espionage. Well, there are areas were we aren't all buddies, are there ?

    10. Re:Who woudl've thunk it.. by germann · · Score: 1

      German government financial support for GPG development started over one year ago, main goal being to provide German companies with reliable protection from economic espionage.
      Also, the EU administration recognized that it may be a bit naive to process their most sensitive secrets with foreign closed source software some time ago.
      With this motivation in mind, there's no need to worry that there's any country in the world with stronger 'freedom of speech' protection than the US - even though gnupg.org is bold enough to cite a privacy protection article from the German 'Grundgesetz' :)

  3. Adequacy is dying!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    You don't need to be a streetlawyer to predict Adequacy.org's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Adequacy faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Adequacy.org because Adequacy is dying. Things are looking very bad for Adequacy. As many of us are already aware, Adequacy continues to lose site traffic.

    Let's try to keep the facts and look at the numbers.

    Slashdot leader Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda states that there are about 5000 semi-regular posters to Slashdot.org. How many users of Geekizoid are there? The ratio of Slashdot to Geekizoid posts is roughly in ratio of 100 to 1. Therefore there are about 5000/100 = 50 occasional Geekizoid posters. The ratio of Adequacy posters to Geekizoid posters is about 5 to 1. Therefore there are 50 * 5 = 250 occasional posters to Adequacy.org. This is approximately equal to the number of editors listed on Adequacy's website added to the eleven non-editors who read the site.

    Traffic to Adequacy continues to diminish. In July 2001, Adequacy received approximately 160,000 pageviews. In August, Adequacy received only 80,000 pageviews. The number of pageviews in September (as of September 11) is 60,000, a
    paltry 37% of its July traffic. At current rates, the amount of Adequacy traffic will hit 0 by the end of the year.

    According to Netcraft, Adequacy's situation is grim. Due to the troubles of Speakeasy DSL, DoS attacks and so on, Adequacy was forced out of business and was taken over by JAT Computer Consulting which hosts another troubled website. Now JAT Computer Consulting is also dying, its corpse being turned over to another charnal house.

    All major surveys show that Adequacy has steadily declined in readership. Adequacy is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Adequacy is to survive at all it will be among right-wing maniacs, Libertarians, and trolls. Adequacy continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Adequacy.org
    is dead.

  4. Quickie pointy outtie by germinatoras · · Score: 3, Informative

    Project Ägypten will focus on making Open Source email programs KMail and mutt compatible with Sphinx

    They're modifying KMail and mutt to work with Sphinx, not the other way around (as the post implies).

  5. Cool idea, but what implications? by perdida · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would applaud this but would only suggest that open source developers not gravitate too closely to the governments of the world for cues and support in development of new security software.

    They will order code they can understand and code they can master, and will want multiple accesses to encryption (such as back-doors) that truly render it useless in an intelligence capacity.

    Give the government strong crypto controled by a single trusted admin. Distributing information and accesses simply opens the door to moles. The US government has seen several, such as Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames.

    If an agent is communicating with a handler far away via encrypted email, not even the handler's supervisors should be able to override the encryption. Especially them.

    --
    Goat sex free since 2001
    1. Re:Cool idea, but what implications? by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it's open source, their backdoor will have to be well hidden in the encryption algorithm. And if you don't like their admin, change it. Sheesh!

      As for agents, they won't use this system. "Hey, Joe Shmoe in New Jersey just accessed the Taliban crypto server. Wadda ya think?" This is just for standard government communications. Agents would probably use the modern equivilent of one-time pads.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    2. Re:Cool idea, but what implications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The amount of encryption code isn't that big, and most applications link to an external encryption API anyways. Reusing someone else's wheel. For an app developer, most encryption is a big ol' black box.

      No, what you might see happening if gov't starts funding OSS development is a lot of bureaucratic bullshit. 4 hour meetings, lots of status reports. A lot of schmoozing and obfuscating. Massive incompetence. Being forced to implement other people's ideas, no matter how stupid they are.

      Remember that one of the things you gain when you give up money is complete control over what you may do with the software. Nobody can tell you how to write the code, and if they don't like it, they can't fire you.

    3. Re:Cool idea, but what implications? by imrdkl · · Score: 1
      They will want [...] back doors

      Somehow, I doubt this. If any "user" requests an certificate, and does it correctly, then there's only one key, and one password. Thats the way X.509 works best.

      As an American living in Europe, I have found that in some cases, they are even more finatical about email privacy (in the corporate world, anyways) than we are. In Norway, for example, former employees cannot have their mail read, even after they leave the company. (I feel relatively certain that Germany has the same, although I do not think that this is an EU rule)

      Give the government strong crypto controled by a single trusted admin.

      The point of public key X.509 systems, is that everyone is the admin of their own key. And only that key. Not even the admin knows what the private key is, unless it is an intentionally shared private key.

  6. saving their taxpayers $$$ by jeffy124 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By doing this, they are saving their taxpayers a bundle (easily billions) by not spending so much on licensing fees from Sun or Microsoft. That money saved can go to greater things like making better schools, etc.

    The article starts out saying that Congress wants to outlaw Open source via the SSSCA.

    Perhaps congress should visit our German buddies and see how a switch to OSS can benefit the American public. A little bit of seeing what's happening abroad could go a long way.

    --
    The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    1. Re:saving their taxpayers $$$ by Red+Aardvark+House · · Score: 2, Informative

      I noticed that in the article too, despite the Dept. of Defense adopting StarOffice. The German government seems to be taking it a step further; since StarOffice is a multiplatform app, the DoD can still run Windows as a primary OS.

      However, IIRC the SSCA will affect open source OS development the most.

      --

      I like fire ants. They are very spicy!

    2. Re:saving their taxpayers $$$ by RotHorseKid · · Score: 0

      Sorry to disappoint you, but there is already money being spent on making proprietary eMail-Clients Sphinx-compatible:
      http://www.gnupg.org/aegypten/
      The Open-Source-projects are only an addition to that, to make it possible for the german government to switch certain agencies to Open-Source-based systems in the future.

      --
      Nobody writes jokes in base 13. - DNA
    3. Re:saving their taxpayers $$$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The SSSCA is not trying to outlaw open sourse. It might hinder it, but it is a side effect, no the main purpose. This is good example of bad journalism by a unreputable site.

    4. Re:saving their taxpayers $$$ by dgb2n · · Score: 2

      Its actually a much easier sale to the German people than the American. Sun and Microsoft are American companies and their revenue is critical to the success of the economy. So what Germany stops buying Microsoft and Sun products, it costs relatively few jobs in Germany (although it does cost some).

      If the American government took similar steps it would cost thousands of jobs (unless you assume that diverting the money to other government spending provides an equitable stimulus to the economy). That distinction would probably be lost on Congress.

    5. Re:saving their taxpayers $$$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will indeed outlaw it. Intended or not that's the end result. Why should it even hinder it? That's only acceptable to an MS employee.

    6. Re:saving their taxpayers $$$ by Malcontent · · Score: 2

      The money that didn't go to MS or SUN would simply go elsewhere. Jobs lost by MS would be offset by jobs gained elsewhere. Maybe the govt could pay down the debt, or better educate our children or maybe even spend the money fighting terrorism. The loss of a thousand or two MS employees (who would find other jobs soon enough) would be nothing if we could prevent a biological terrorist act.

      Right now the Govt is spending your tax dollars to make the richest man in the world even richer surely it can spend that money in better ways.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

  7. Free = Free? by Andorion · · Score: 1

    "has hired three companies to create Free Software email options"

    ??

    -Berj

    1. Re:Free = Free? by tsarina · · Score: 1

      Who else would write the stuff? Politicians' secretaries? The government needs a large number of people experienced in coding etc. A company is such a concentrated group. Certainly easier than hiring hundreds of individual hax0rs. Though the companies my create the software, they are hired by the government. The government will control that software, and can then make it free.

      --

      ________
      "And if the fool, or the pig, are of a different opinion...." -- J.S. Mill
    2. Re:Free = Free? by Dog+and+Pony · · Score: 1

      If I pay you to write some software, and then I give that software away to anyone that wants it, would that possibly be a scenario that is both reasonable and fits the above sentence?

      I mean, apart from me paying you money, or me wanting you to write my software, or any of the other obvious flaws in the scenario, of course. :)

    3. Re:Free = Free? by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 2

      What's so wrong about this? Sure the government has to hire some coders to write some free software for them, but they'll easily make up the returns by not having to pay licensing fees to Microsoft or Sun.

      This is a very good move by their government to put up a relatively small fixed cost up front to reap potentially huge savings in the future. Who is it who said a penny saved is a penny earned?

      --
      Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
  8. Well it's about time... by motherhead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would advocate that governments only use open source projects...

    the fact that the DoJ was supposedly at war with M$, while at the same time handing over some of M$'s largest contracts seems insane...

    I would almost call it a chuch/state issue...

    1. Re:Well it's about time... by tsarina · · Score: 1

      Not so much a church/state issue, more like a conflict of interest. What is strange is that the DoJ knows first-hand how M$ software and bundles can take over a computer almost entirely (for better or worse, but probably illegally) but they still choose to use the software anyway! I suppose it's almost BECAUSE of the monopoly - since everybody else uses M$, they have to also use it to be compatible.

      --

      ________
      "And if the fool, or the pig, are of a different opinion...." -- J.S. Mill
    2. Re:Well it's about time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It would be a church/state issue if the government started backing Open Source zealotry.

    3. Re:Well it's about time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't you just stop using that childish $, grow up for christ sake!

    4. Re:Well it's about time... by dgb2n · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You have to remember that our legislature is made up of people that raise money from business to ensure their continued existence in Congress.

      Particularly at a time when the Government is taking steps to stimulate the economy it makes little sense for them to deal a further blow to software vendors. I know it sounds counterintuitive but most of the voluminous regulations on Federal Acquisition (the FAR for those who deal with it) are not focused on getting the government the best value for the money but rather are focused on meeting congressional mandates (small disadvantaged businesses, minority and women owned businesses, etc.).

      I'm all for the Government using open source software. It would just be interesting to watch the Congressional opposition.

    5. Re:Well it's about time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it sounds counterintuitive but most of the voluminous regulations on Federal Acquisition (the FAR for those who deal with it) are not focused on getting the government the best value for the money but rather are focused on meeting congressional mandates (small disadvantaged businesses, minority and women owned businesses, etc.)

      So that's how we end up with $5,000 toilet seats in DoD and a myriad of politically motivated shoddy goods in the General Services Administration, eh? Makes you wonder who sucked whose dick when you walk into any Federal installation and everywhere it's M$.

    6. Re:Well it's about time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well shit now that I know it pissess off the M$ emplyees here at slashdot I'll use it more often.

  9. Alas... by Renraku · · Score: 1

    And alas their attempts to free software fail as Microsoft swoops in and displays proudly their new EULA for Notepad, in which they considered free software..Microsoft annexes Germany..Italy and MS Germany make an alliance...

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  10. Sending e-mail safely from point A to point B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the problem really still unsolved? This doesn't seems very hard to do, as long as your goal is to converge to something (like TeX), and not diverge into feature/scripting-land.

  11. Nice, but... by A+Commentor · · Score: 2

    So what is this 'Sphinx' email? Is it some propietary software or what??

    The article seems to raise more questions that answers.

    (the project) "will focus on making Open Source email programs KMail and mutt compatible with Sphinx"

    Will this going to help anyone that doesn't use Sphinx?

    --

    Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com

    1. Re:Nice, but... by Teancom · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm gonna karma whore for a little bit, and c&p an email to the kmail developer's list that came in today. Text follows.

      Dear list,

      we are happy to announce that the German
      "Bundesamt für Sicherheit in der Informationstechnik"
      (Federal Agency for IT Security, BSI)
      contracted us (Intevation, Klarälvdalens Datakonsult and g10 Code)
      to make sure that Free Software for their email security
      standard Sphinx will be created.

      Sphinx basically consists of S/MIME, a PKIX compatible X.509
      profile, together with certificate revocation lists (CRLs)
      based on LDAP. The code developed will be modular
      allowing inclusion in several MUAs released under the GNU GPL.
      Part of the contract with the BSI is the inclusion in mutt
      and KMail.

      The initial project pages can be reached from the URL below.
      We wanted to get the good news out to you as fast as possible.
      Expect more information to get released on the website or on the
      corresponding mailing lists.

      We plan to do the development in an open manner suitable
      for Free Software projects. We want to handle the project in a
      way that it will leverage and add to the work of other developers
      and ask for your collaboration. The BSI pays us to ensure that their
      specs are followed precisely and the result passes strict tests.
      This is the first time the BSI contracts for Free Software development
      and the experiences they make will be important.

      We will demonstrate the power of commercial Free Software.

      www.gnupg.org/aegypten

      So, basically they are adding ldap support (w00t!), S/Mime, X.509, and CRL support to Kmail and mutt, using the GPL and working together with the main developers to make sure it gets included. Very cool, if I do say so myself.

      (and yes, I know there is already s/mime support for mutt, but iirc it is via a patch. dunno about ldap/x.509/crl, I use kmail :-).

      Hope that clears some questions up.

    2. Re:Nice, but... by Yokaze · · Score: 1

      Here some information about Sphinx as translated by google and here the original in german.

      It seems to be a project to assure interoperability of different commercial products (and now obviously one GPL project) inencryption and to assist in developing a public key infrastructure (pki).
      This all happens on international standards like S/MIME, X.509v3, PKIX.

      So its not a (binary) program, but a system concept.

      While writing this, there seems to be a different source
      on english, which does not rely on my or google translation abilities and also has some pictures :).

      --
      "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
  12. German Linux by Greenisus · · Score: 1

    Are they going to use SuSE?

    1. Re:German Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ewwwww, SuSe.. MAJOR Bloatware.. Just like amateur RedHat, Mandrake, Caldera (now licensing the M$ way - sicken me too).

    2. Re:German Linux by kz45 · · Score: 0

      licensing shouldn't matter to you, it's "free" as in speech, remember?

  13. This should get good results by jspey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The best thing I see coming out of this is the possibility of an entire governmental agency switching over to solely free software. At that point you'll have all types of employees all using free destop productivity software. Whatever word processor they use, it'll have to work well and have everything they need and want it to. Same with presentation, spreadsheet, database, etc. applications.

    One thing I've heard repeatedly from various places is that there's no set of free software applications that meet the above requirements, pretty much forcing people to use windows. Once an entire agency is using free software, the government is going to have to pay for some company to create exactly what it is that they need for the desktop, and since it's open source, it'll be available to everyone. So there'll be a standard install of a standard, easy to use desktop and it'll come with all the applications a person needs to be an engineer, statistition, executive, or even just a secretary.

    I see this as possibly the only way free software will get a good business desktop in the near future, and I can't wait for it to happen.

    Mr. Spey
    Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.

    --
    Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
    1. Re:This should get good results by Doomdark · · Score: 1

      Whatever word processor they use, it'll have to
      work well and have everything they need and want
      it to.


      And, perhaps even more importantly, has to coexist with/be able to talk to _other_ 'competing' (open, closed, whatever) applications.
      If Free/Open s/w history is any indication, there'll be n+1 applications for any task you can
      name. Having n+1 alternatives doesn't have to be a problem in itself, as long as they can talk to each other.


      And now... having just read an article about Open/Star Office saving its documents in Open format (its 'own' XML dtd... but perhaps that grows to be a de facto Open Office Document standard?), which in turn uses other open XML-based languages (SVG, Dublin Core RDF vocabulary), I'm kind of optimistic about the future of open office applications. If all goes well, this may be the classic case of "whoever implements it first well enough creates a new de facto standard".


      And the weird thing is that Open Office is heavily sponsored by a big good-old proprietary company (although one traditionally getting most of its income from h/w). :-)

      But then again, Mozilla is (was?) funded by Netscape. Perhaps it is the way of future.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    2. Re:This should get good results by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
      signed god.

      Dap:I didn't know god had a slashdot account.

    3. Re:This should get good results by choco · · Score: 2

      There is another benefit too.

      When governments, cities, public organisations start using GNU software, then other large companies will have to ensure they can deal with them - that they can exchange emails, documents, spreadsheets etc.

      This will go a long way to unpicking the control over file formats that Microsoft currently has.

      --
      AJB
  14. SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source software by loraksus · · Score: 2

    It's great to see a government agency of all places supporting the GPL and open source.
    I might be kind of shallow, but I think if you don't release your code, you are afraid of people looking at your poorly programmed code. If the "you" in the above sentence relates to a company, the company is essentially saying that your company is embarrased of the programmers.
    I'm sure I'll have a change of heart once I enter the industry.

    A mail program isn't the most complicated thing to program, I'm writing something in vis. basic right now (I know, I know - It's called schoolwork and I might as well challenge myself) The program is going to be um.. very highly customizable.
    Anyways, these rfc's were really useful.

    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0821.txt SMTP Spec
    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2046.txt (w/Mime)

    On a side note (and kind of in jest), what the hell is with europeans and super long agency names?
    Bundesamt für Sicherheit in der Informationstechnik (damn!)

    --
    1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  15. what's wrong with?? by AssFace · · Score: 1

    what's wrong with hushmail or ziplip??

    both are web accessible and secure as long as you talk to others that are also on the same system. hushmail uses a java applet and depending on which version you are using the blowfish algorithm or a PGP spin-off. off the top of my head, I don't recall what ziplip uses.

    there are

    --

    There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
    1. Re:what's wrong with?? by AssFace · · Score: 1

      also, I should note that hushmail source is available for download and perusal - which I've done with the older stuff, but not the new one. unsure about ziplip. and they are both free.

      --

      There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
  16. Re:In a few years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Germany...the bastion of free-speech. HAHA, ROFL!

  17. S/MIME for mutt by Mike+Schiraldi · · Score: 2


    This project is great, since it hopes to create a universal module that can be plugged in easily to any MUA.

    But for those of you who happen to run mutt, you don't have to wait for S/MIME support -- see this site for details. It's not universal or modular, but it exists now and it works.

    --

    --
    Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again

  18. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Bundesamt für Sicherheit in der Informationstechnit could be translated as "Federal Agency for Security in Information-Technologies" ..

    ps: German is the 3rd most spoken language on the web.. time to learn some, huh?

  19. Re:In a few years by James+Skarzinskas · · Score: 1

    Well, it seems that your post name is exactly as it implies, 'an anonymous coward'. Do you have any solid grounds for this? I'm not german, and I live on the other side of the world from germany, so this may somewhat invalidate my point of view, but I believe that the country of Germany has really gone up-hill with free speech, etc. from stories and first-hand accounts I have read. They aren't the enemies anymore, fool.

  20. OT - Language Usage on the Net by robi2106 · · Score: 1

    So, I'm just currious here, what are the other languages?

    robi

    1. Re:OT - Language Usage on the Net by robi2106 · · Score: 1

      I mean the other top languages (not every obscure dialect hosting a URL). So which language is 2nd? Spanish? French? What about 4th and 5th? Is there any place I can look up this info?

      robi

    2. Re:OT - Language Usage on the Net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think it was in "wired".. you could also look at google zeitgeist.. they tell you what language is used most on their page.. i guess thet's about the same..
      japanese is 2nd i think.. spanish 4th (maybe german was 4th and spanish 3rd..? i'm not sure)

    3. Re:OT - Language Usage on the Net by ichimunki · · Score: 2

      http://www.glreach.com/globstats/ -- according to them German is 5th (based on how many people are online that speak it). It goes English (still less than half of all internet users, even though top spot), Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, German. There is also this site which has the information based on web site language : http://www.et.com.mx/mgb/dmoz/stat/

      But as far as non-internet languages go, German isn't even top ten. So unless you've already mastered Chinese, Hindi, Spanish, Russian, and Arabic-- I'd wait to learn German later, unless you've already learned some German, in which case you might as well go for fluency. :)

      --
      I do not have a signature
    4. Re:OT - Language Usage on the Net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that the methedology of the first page is rather suspect (and they admit as much) since they simply use the nationality of the internet user and group by the dominant language of those nationalities.

      I'm Canadian, for example, and indeed I do predominantly browse english websites. However, I can (and do) make use of websites in German, Spanish, French, Portuguese, and Russian, in descending order of frequency. Your second linked page, which lists the amount of content in each language, is in my view far more useful when speaking about the internet.

  21. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THIS&nbsp SI&nbsp TEH&nbsp INTERNETWEB&nbsp INFORMATION&nbsp SUPERHIWAY,&nbsp SPEEK&nbsp AMERICAN,&nbsp DAMMIT!


    This public service message brought to you by
    --JEFFK&nbsp

  22. Re:Do the following IN ORDER: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you sir, are a god damn fucking homosexual.

  23. govt. is only the people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when they're elected.

    not appointed by the supreme court.

    1. Re:govt. is only the people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which supreme court?

      The Florida Supreme Court?

      Or the US Supreme Court?

      It seemed almost up for grabs in the last election which one would do the appointing.

      The real crux of the matter, though, is that Al Gore would have WON the election, no questions asked, if he'd carried his home state.

  24. Re:Serious Trouble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what the hell is your problem, dude? germany is one of the leading economic powers and a WESTERN country.. we're with the good guys (i.e.: the USA)!
    yes, there were some of the terrorists living in germany for a while, not behaving like your stereotypical terrorist at all (and did nothing that would have aroused any suspicion - if you know a little bit about the structure of these organizations, yuo might know that they do not have contact to their leaders via e-mail or phone but send someone to deliver the message in person)..
    then they moved to the US where they had flight lessons (ooh.. terrorists had flight lessons in florida! the governor of florida must be supporting terrorism..) to say that germany is aiding terrorists in any way is just plain BS! I would have thought that we have some more intelligent people posting here who don't believe everything fox news tells them..

  25. Re:Serious Trouble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, Gernamy is a terrorist haven, after all.

  26. If you're looking for an alternative to Kmail... by bconway · · Score: 5, Informative

    About 6 months ago I stumbled across an awesome GTK+ mail/news reader very similar in look to Netscape Messenger (and far superior to XFMail) called Sylpheed (http://sylpheed.good-day.net/). It'll handle as many accounts as you want, supports threading and image view through gdk-pixbuf, is extremely fast (and decently configurable), and I've never had it crash on me. Some distributions are starting to pick it up now, and it's included in Mandrake 8.1, though I usually compile myself from source. I'd suggest giving it a look.

    --
    Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
  27. Allrighty then by WildBeast · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    As many of you had noticed. I'm more of an Anti Open-Source guy. However, I'm glad to see open source used in the government. I'm perfectly okay with Open source as long as it's used by the government, research institutions, education and non profit organisations. For any other type of organisation I would go with EULA type licenses. I don't think that huge, for-profit companies deserve anything for free. For me, it's all about justice, they take our money, we take theirs. Don't be victims, fight back.

    1. Re:Allrighty then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Governments take our money, but we choose to give it to companies. No-one is a victim of this. Don't believe the hype.

    2. Re:Allrighty then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, government funded software development should be Open Source.

      It should be completely unencumbered by licenses.

      It should be Public Domain.

      It should NOT ben infected with a License such as the GPL.

  28. Re:Get real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's it like living in fantasy land?

  29. Re:Do the following IN ORDER: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Louis Armstrong, trumpet player and Jazz pioneer, died yesterday morning in his Los Angeles home. He was 71. Armstrong's last performance was at James Madison University's Convocation Center on March 24, 2001, where he played to a standing room only 5,000. Armstrong was helped off the stage by his wife of 20 years, and he later told a reporter for the campus newspaper "I don't know how much longer I can do this. This may be one of my last shows." His final song was his biggest hit, Hello Dolly! He is survived by his wife, 3 children and 6 grandchildren.

  30. Better schools by jellybear · · Score: 1

    They could save even more money and make their schools even better by encouraging students to work on the Free Software: the students learn about computer science and get credits, while the government gets some nice mail clients at no cost.

  31. Re:Do the following IN ORDER: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    shut the fuck up, lame ass

  32. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by kindbud · · Score: 2

    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0821.txt SMTP Spec

    This one has been superceded by many later RFCs (1123 comes to mine immediately). However, if you adhere to it, you'll be miles ahead of many commercial programs.

    --
    Edith Keeler Must Die
  33. Mod parent down: (-1, Cock Gobbling Fag) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I regret to inform you that you, sir, are a raging homosexual.

  34. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're right - when you get into the industry things change. Unfortunately, lawyers are the ones who make most of these sorts of decisions. Their primary criterion seems to be the possibility of being sued by somebody. When it's not the lawyers, it's the marketing department, and their world revolves around "creativeness" and a lot of vagueness about trying to sell it to customers. If somebody in the company thinks your code might actually have some value to the company, depend on that code never being visible to anybody outside the company without signing non-disclosure agreements.

  35. no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sucking a penis is a bad idea, as it is likely to ejaculate, resulting in semen in your mouth.

  36. I believe it when I see it. by twms2h · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hi,

    Living in this country that "supports open source" I am rather sceptically about the whole issue.

    The German parliament was also "looking into alternatives for Windows especially Linux", they said. And a few weeks later it was announced that they had made a new deal with Microsoft who gave them some better conditions than originally offered. Linux was no longer an option after that. What do we learn from that: Linux makes a good argument when you want a good deal from Microsoft.

    twm

    1. Re:I believe it when I see it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Isn't that what competition is all about, having options?

    2. Re:I believe it when I see it. by thefogger · · Score: 2

      Do you have a link to that announcement?

      --


      Um... I didn't do it!
    3. Re:I believe it when I see it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many countries have laws demanding the purchasing dept aka contracts get the best price.
      As MS has an Enterprise manager to each bulk contract, this can't happen if he/she judges your organisation too feeble/weak to adopt something else. Germany has a second reason to try harder: security patches for German edition lag , badly. The cost of this sponsorship will save deutchland plenty, even if they fall back to the beast. I wonder what the U of Texas is paying for MS ware now? Mail is a good target to go OS.

  37. Re:Socialism is spreading. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as well as stupidity as your posting shows...

  38. Re:Why shouldn't they? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "the fact that the DoJ was supposedly at war with M$, while at the same time handing over some of M$'s largest contracts seems insane..."

    Why do you think thats insane? The DOJ case is about some illegal business practices microsoft has been using in the past. The DOJ wants to punish microsoft for the damage this has caused (rightfully since it's illegal) and make sure it doesn't happen again.

    However, the case is NOT about stopping microsoft from selling their software and NOT about stopping people from buying it out of free will.

    I think you have misunderstood something.

  39. Re:In a few years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Germany bans racist speech. Therefore they do not have Free Speech as unpopular speech is not protected. Protection of unpopular speech is essential to maintaining freedom. Freedom of Speech comes from a confidence that the government is correct. The ideas can be debated and you do not need to suppress the opposition to maintain power if you are in fact correct. If a government is not confident in the rightness of its ideology then it moves to suppress dissenting speech as that could be harmful to continued power. Thus the German government fears that egalitarianism is false, that it cannot be logically defended, and that racism may make more sense than equality.

  40. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by Rogerborg · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    • If the "you" in the above sentence relates to a company, the company is essentially saying that your company is embarrased of the programmers

    Well, sure. I'm a commercial programmer, and I after a string of "bend over and take it" contract modifications, I now give my employer code that meets their standards and no more, i.e. it doesn't crash 90% of the time.

    If we ever released our source, our competitors would find and publish all of the bugs in it, while ripping it off (sorry, "clean room re-implementing it"), probably wrecking my company and putting me out of a job.

    Wait.. what's the downside again?

    • I'm sure I'll have a change of heart once I enter the industry

    My personal experience has been that it's folly to mix work and pleasure. Don't do your hobby as a job, because you'll get screwed into working 80 hours weeks, and you'll end up hating it. So just get screwed 40 hours a week, and reserve your spare time for doing what you enjoy (e.g. open source projects), to your own standards.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  41. Unfair article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's pretty unfair to post a Euro-centric article when most Europeans posting here are already either blind drunk or asleep.

    1. Re:Unfair article by linux4life · · Score: 0

      i'm neither - here's proof!. oh and btw, if you see you mother this weekend, be sure to tell her SATAN

  42. Re:Why shouldn't they? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you dumb or something? There isn't any conflict of interest.

    The law case is about stopping unlawful business-practices not about stopping anyone from buying/selling anything.

  43. Re:In a few years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Oh, piss off and stop advocating racism.

    Some ideas simply cannot and will not be tolerated.

  44. Not really... by wnknisely · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I think it becomes a "Church/State" issue when the goverment starts supporting one group to the exclusion of others. (In this case it would be using Microsoft exclusively or disproportionatly more than other vendors.)


    The problem is of course that standardization in software is a good thing - but too much is a bad thing. I don't know that anyone has figured out where the golden mean is between the two poles. We obviously need some sort of standard software to run our computers, and we need some sort of quality assurance. Open Source certainly is a candidate to develop a standard (think RFC) - but in its present form the quality of software offered is uneven. (Some is extraordinary, some is crap.)


    Perhaps the real way to develop a vendor agnosticism would be to actively support and have people on the goverment payroll contribute to the open-source development model. That way the goverment is actively looking out for its own interest, but in a way which supports communal development.


    Which of course sounds good, but I have no idea what it would look like... or how it would play out.

    --
    In illa quae ultra sunt
  45. Why ziplip SUCKS ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because their maximum server uptime is 7 days. I need something more stable than that misconfigured NT5(win2k) server.

    I tryed to register to try them out when I realized these guys have a crap server, that wouldn't respond.

    Hushmail seems pretty solid over 200 days uptime, so I gues I try them.

  46. Re:In a few years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't advocate racism, I'm a registered Republican all the anti-semites are in the Democratic Party. (See Louis Farakan or about any other black leader.) But if you think that it is really wrong then let a few people hold onto the idea. If you are right then it should be possible to prove this in open discussion. If you can't show that racism is wrong but merely ban it because you believe to be so then you are anti-freedom.

  47. Re:Serious Trouble by Coniine · · Score: 1

    Sarcasm passes you by then? You're so obtuse. Go look it up.

  48. Typical ABM sheep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No reasoned argument
    Unfounded aggression
    Elitist attitude
    Resorting to verbal violence
    Spells like a 12 year old
    Probably IS a 12 year old

    Go show your Mom what you posted and get her to spank some sense into you.

    1. Re:Typical ABM sheep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't have a point to make that's on topic, please don't contribute an off-topic comment.

      Thank you.

  49. On SSSCA by Masem · · Score: 2
    Please note: at this time, only one congressperson (Hollings) wants to pass SSSCA; it's yet to be even introduced into the committee, much less both houses of the floor. Mind you, the bill IS worrisome, so if you haven't already contacted your reps about it, now's the time (and again if/when the bill does get introduced).

    Also, too many people are not reading into the bill enough; there is a grandfather clause that does state that 'unsecure' hardware and software before the end 12month discussion period mandated by the proposed bill would be legal; sure, this kills the development of linux, so it's still scary, but preexisting linux boxes on the net could not be taken down by this.

    --
    "Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
    "I can see my house from here!" - ST:
    1. Re:On SSSCA by Alsee · · Score: 1

      grandfather clause that does state that 'unsecure' hardware and software before the end 12month discussion period mandated by the proposed bill would be legal; sure, this kills the development of linux, so it's still scary


      Note that SSSCA would not make Linux illeagal. It just means that Linux would have to contain U.S. government approved GPL digital rights management code, and altering or removing this code would be a crime.

      Ok, who's going to be the first idiot to flame me or mod me down because they think this means I support the SSSCA?

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  50. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by schon · · Score: 1

    if you don't release your code, you are afraid of people looking at your poorly programmed code

    As a programmer, I can say you are 100% correct.

    I've written some godawful code in my time (usually while learning a new protocol - like you I've written an SMTP server, but I've also written a POP3 server and HTTP server as well.. all as learning excersises...) and I'd never submit it to public scrutiny (of course, I'd never submit binaries either :o)

    But I've contributed to a couple of GPL'ed projects too - usually with code I'm pretty proud of... (except one Roxen module that I wrote while learning Pike - that one was just ugly as sin - I released it because people wanted it :o)

  51. Elephant Penis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The url thing really rules.

    SAFJLKFALKJSKHLSKJALSH

  52. What the hell?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What kind of name for a news site is 'Newsforge'?

    It sounds like they're trying to forge news again.

    What a lame name for a 'news' site.

    1. Re:What the hell?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What the hell do you think?

      Newsforge is a site for cock gobbling fags, fairies, and fruits. Extra gay.

  53. Govt and Open Source by throx · · Score: 2

    Perhaps the real way to develop a vendor agnosticism would be to actively support and have people on the goverment payroll contribute to the open-source development model.

    Hey, we could put Government funds into education and get the professionals there to develop open source software. I'll call up the Regents of the University of California, Berkley. Oh... Wait a minute...

    In my opinion, if the government continues to fund software development then it should ensure it isn't under the GPL (BSD license springs to mind). After all, everyone who helped fund that software should have a right to it and not just those who also agree with the philosophy of GNU.

    --

    Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means

    1. Re:Govt and Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Couldn't agree more. Generally speaking publically funded projects should not be used as political tools (like using the GPL really is).

    2. Re:Govt and Open Source by Malcontent · · Score: 2

      If the govt did not release the code under the GPL it would simply be a form of corporate welfare. Under the GPL the greatest beneficieries would be the public under the BSD the corporations would benefit the most.

      I think the govt should do what is best for the public not what is best for Microsoft or Sun.

      BTW you don't have to agree with the philosophy to use the applications. The GPL should not bother you unless you intend to modify the code AND distribute it. Most people will never modify the code and most people will never distribute it. For the vast majority of the human beings in the US the GPL is absolutely harmless.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    3. Re:Govt and Open Source by throx · · Score: 2

      If the govt did not release the code under the GPL it would simply be a form of corporate welfare. Under the GPL the greatest beneficieries would be the public under the BSD the corporations would benefit the most.

      Actually, under a BSD license anyone could use the code, modify the code and resell the code - be it Microsoft, Sun or Jimmy-Bob down the road. Tax money is collected from companies and individuals alike - why shouldn't the fruits of that money be returned to companies and individuals alike.

      What it comes down to is publishing government work under a GPL license gives GPL software an unfair advantage over commercial software through it's ability to leverage taxpayer funded projects. Governments should not play favorites to a particular licensing model and make all publicly funded code available to all who provided those funds.

      For the vast majority of the human beings in the US the GPL is absolutely harmless.

      That's like saying "For the vast majority of the human beings in the US the draft is absolutely harmless". Not affecting the vast majority is a poor excuse for a rationalization.

      --

      Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means

  54. Justified Paranoia by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Informative

    The German government isn't too happy about the fact that at least of couple of the companies that write utilities used in Windows are associated with the "Church" of $cientology.

    And given $cientology's record of infiltrating government offices in the US, Canada, Greece, France, etc, the thought of proprietary code gives them the creeps.

    xenu.net

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  55. Re:Does anyone here have the balls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not fat, in fact I've been told that I could be a male supermodel by anonymous strangers on the street, I'm that good looking. I think you need to reevaluate your argument and go fuck yourself you little whiny bitch. The time has come to destroy those that oppose America and all who stand in our way will be nuked!!!

  56. Plans also in Finland by TeknoHog · · Score: 5, Informative

    The City of Turku, the oldest and one of the largest cities in Finland, is planning on a switch to Linux + OpenOffice in order to save the XP license money. Links here and here.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  57. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The government should ONLY be releasing software produced with public funds as Public Domain software.

    My tax dollars should not be feeding anybody's political agenda.

  58. Re:Why shouldn't they? by motherhead · · Score: 2

    Why do you think thats insane? The DOJ case is about some illegal business practices microsoft has been using in the past. The DOJ wants to punish microsoft for the damage this has caused (rightfully since it's illegal) and make sure it doesn't happen again.

    Valid points, yet I guess my ethical (if certainly not legal) reasoning would be: Because in this instance, Microsoft is being rewarded.

    If it has been, or is in the process of being, established that Microsoft used unfair and illegal means to advance itself into a position that they have become a (the?) predominate supplier of software to the U.S. government, then perhaps that relationship should be re-evaluated.

    The fact that it goes on un-inspected is, yes, a bit insane to me.

    But then who cares what I think? Just another schmuck voter am I.

  59. SSSCA petition by triskadekta · · Score: 1

    http://www.petitiononline.com/SSSCA/petition.html

    I have this picture of Tyler Durden saying
    We are your network admin
    We run your websites
    We HACK while you SLEEP
    Do _not_ FUCK with us

    (-:

  60. Brag of the Hacker Subgenius - v1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (....sound of modem connection being made....)

    Aaaaaieeeee! I am the hacker to end all hackers forever! I am a Road Warrior on the Information Superhighway! Jehovah-1 hath bestoweth unto me the Virtual Fist of Removal, and it shall smite the unworthy! I picked the terror of the fucking Gods off my hard disk and uploaded it to America Online! I eat floppy disks for dessert and puke up the bad sectors! I crashed Ivan Stang's PowerMac by farting on his mail address! I have Net access everywhere and can log on in my sleep! I can trance-spout every password you have ever used! I get a suntan from high radiation computer monitors! Bill Gates and Phillipe Kahn pay me protection money! I wrote the very first computer virus and all of them since! My viruses themselves write other viruses! Ergonomic keyboards and mice give me a hardon! My home page on the Web melts the eyeballs of unworthy Pinks!

    I can EMail myself over the Internet! Janor came to ME when he needed the Janor Device upgraded! My Internet Worm will meltdown every computer in the world at 7:00AM July 5, 1998! I wrote the RoboCop's microcode and taught him how to speak English! Charles Babbage looked at my prototypes and threw up his hands in utter despair! I corn-holed Countess Ada Lovelace as she was writing the world's first computer program! I built the Tower of Babbage and scrambled the minds of computer programmers everwhere and made them program in foreign tongues! I am the reason Pinks and Normals can't program their VCRs! I am the original Phone Phreak! My nose-whistles can get me free long distance phone calls! I eat old computer chips for late night snacks! I figured out how to use my old Commodore PET as an Internet Mail server! My Laserjet's test page display's "Bob"s picture! I put "Bob"s face onto the Linux CD ROM!

    I can guess ANY encryption key using a Tarot deck and a pair of dice! My microwave oven's on-board computer is faster than a Cray-2! I can reprogram your DNA with a few taps on my keyboard! I can surf the Internet using Dennis Wilson's old surfboard! Come on...GIVE ME a computer virus! I'll shred it byte by byte and turn it into the next Microsoft release! I logged in and deleted Bill Clinton's bank accounts from my pocket calculator! I can make your hardware obsolete by just STARING at it! I built the first Turing Machine out of old junk in my garage! My computer programs make a mockery of the field of Computer Science! I invented Virtual Reality when I took my first hit of 'Frop! My compression algorithms can smash the entire world onto the head of a pin! The Grays contracted ME to fix their navigational computers after Roswell! I hacked a root password login to the Xist's mainframe! I can put out security Firewalls with a deep breath and a good sneeze! I ate my Apple II and barfed up a Macintosh! I'll ....

    zzzzzzzt....click...(connection terminated)......

    1. Re:Brag of the Hacker Subgenius - v1.0 by wysoft · · Score: 0

      Say, are you Carolyn Meinel, by any chance?

      --
      -- I'll cut you up so bad, you'll wish I'd never cut you up so bad!
  61. Re:In a few years by opium78 · · Score: 1

    Theorem: "Racism is wrong"
    Prove: German history 1933-1945

  62. It's a fair fight, got a problem with that? by imrdkl · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The "good uses" of encryption are here to stay.

    One of the tactics of the black hats seems to be to dig around for information from places, and perhaps in ways, which might not be quite so easy for them to get access to, when the white hats learn to use encryption as well as "they" do.

    For example, consider mining an airline booking site to see which flights have special prices. This type of information retrieval might become better protected, because such information could lead to speculation about the human-density on the flight.

    Consider also, that Europe, as Us, is devastated by every new MS worm that comes around. But if they'd only use SSL server encryption more widely, they'd be unbothered by such simple virusen. Managers will buy more servers, because SSL takes more horsies, (as every other form of encryption), users will share information in a more sensible way, the economy will rebound, etc., etc.. :)

    I contend that the most interesting authorities built out of X.509, in any case objCA, sslCA, and objsign (from openssl docs and Netscape definitions), should continue to be widely encouraged. emailCA, perhaps is for the more mature organization, but an organizations email can sometimes be the biggest "hole" of all. It should be closed-up, in any good business activity, anywhere, eventually.

    The point is, everyones already got this stuff. The playing field is even, and we have to fight dishonesty with the same tools as are being used to hide it.

    Not to worry unless someone tells you to put your certificate on your head or your hand (right). Right?

  63. SuSE? by MrResistor · · Score: 1
    I noticed there was no mention of SuSE in the story, which seems odd. If I was German and looking for Linux with KDE, SuSE is where I would start.

    Kind of makes me doubt the validity of it. As another poster mentioned, perhaps the German government is just trying to get a better deal from MS...

    --
    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    1. Re:SuSE? by Voidhobo · · Score: 1

      Maybe they need a better lobby in Berlin. It's only logical for the agency to leave that open and wait for the distrib companies to come to them.

    2. Re:SuSE? by MrResistor · · Score: 1
      SuSE has a huge number of developers though (for an OSS company) and it is a KDE centric distro. Since the were specifically talking about plug-ins to Kmail, it would seem logical to go to SuSE. SuSE being a German company is really more of a happy coincidence.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  64. We've got a new homeland. by narfbot · · Score: 0

    haxor: ich komme von amerika

    german: warauf kommst du da?

    haxor: ich bin haxor?

    german: don't you speak english?

    haxor: of course............uh ja

    german: your broken german sounds terrible

    haxor: ich weisse

    german: so you're a nerd huh

    1. Re:We've got a new homeland. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah, verpiss dich.

  65. No cryptography support yet... by Aldreis · · Score: 1


    Sylpheed is really wonderful, a fine piece of software, with lots of potential...
    But it ( sigh ) lacks PGP/GnuPG support... :-(

    1. Re:No cryptography support yet... by bconway · · Score: 2

      *cough* Last item right here. *cough*

      Could someone explain to me what this postercomment compression filter is in I'm violating (which this sentence was added to work around)?

      --
      Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
  66. Oops! Recompiling right now... :-) by Aldreis · · Score: 1

    You're absolutely right. Sylpheed is now perfect. :-)

  67. Re:In a few years by opium78 · · Score: 1

    I think your prove merely supports my theorem or do you think that enslavement and genocide of Native Americans contradicts that "Racism is wrong"? The stupid, fucking moron (oder frei übersetzt: Der dumme, fickende Hirnamputierte)

  68. Re:Why shouldn't they? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The people at DOJ responsible for buying computer equipment (including software) are not (and certainly should NOT be) judges!!! That would really be unethical.

    Judges and courts are the ones who punish people, nobody else. In most civilized countries it's also illegal for government agencies to act as judges.

  69. Re:If you're looking for an alternative to Kmail.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > though I usually compile myself from source

    What are you written in?

  70. Re:Why shouldn't they? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Boy do you suck at being a Microsoft "grassroots" evangelist. If you want some grassroots, enjoy these guys.

    You have been skunked out bitch. You are not among your own kind. People here will read, learn and counterattack. You have done more harm then good already. Microsoft will die at it's own hands, blundering moron.

  71. Niggers and Spics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I hate Niggers.

    I hat Spics

    I hte Ragheads

    I Love Racist Cartoons

  72. Re:Do the following IN ORDER: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    *BSD is dying

    Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when last month IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in th recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    *BSD is dying

  73. Re:In a few years by James+Skarzinskas · · Score: 1

    By your standards, its most probable I could claim every country in the world bans free speech in some way or another. Your analogy is flawed, and naive. Also; who wants racism? I'm sorry, but I am independant to what race(/colour/religion) someone is, and if you feel you have the right to harass or distinguish someone over it, then I suggest you slither back to the cave you formed from.

    Protecting unpopular speech? You understand that people have commited suicide, not to mention mass murder over racist comments? Protection of the people first; the German government apparently seems to be getting the right idea by placing laws against this kind of horrible "speech". Anybody who is so inhuman to say these things shouldn't have rights themselves, and that is the key exactly. Inhumanity. People who would advocate or make racism (/racist comments) lack intelligence to the degree that they cannot recognize a fellow human, and thus put them down with stupid comments in some vague

  74. just my �0.02... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am as of a moment ago playing "Maelstrom-3.0.5-MacOSX".

    This is, the best game ever.(!!!)

    i do not think the govenment should ever use mac OSX.

  75. Mutt already has that by Dwonis · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mutt is already standard (i.e. works on any terminal, including text-only), and secure (PGP/GPG/choose-your-flavour).

  76. Good news from Europe. by small_dick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems to me the free software movement has stalled in the USA. Witness the harsh laws, government and corporate comingling, etc.

    I've often thought the only way for open source to succeed is for "other-than-USA" countries to embrace it...the USA just has too many influence peddlers and special interests involved in government to make the proper decisions...not to mention a population of dullards who know little of law and less of history. Harsh, but I beleive it true.

    It's really looking like it will be the forward-thinking countries outside the USA who are going to turn the tide against "zero choice" monopoly software.

    Even though I might have to watch, rather than participate, I'd really enjoy seeing Germany (and hopefully others!) give Bill Gates and his illegal corporation a "boot to the head".

    I hope the Germans decide to do this...it's very impressive to see people standing up and demanding freedom, liberty, and choice from their government.

    --


    Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
    See my user info for links.
    1. Re:Good news from Europe. by pete-classic · · Score: 2

      Our (USA) government is pretty clueless when it comes to legislating technology.

      The advantage we have is that when we find a law stupid, we feel free to violate it.

      Is there even a word for jaywalking in German?

      -Peter

  77. Re:Free as in Free software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope it's not the Free part of Free Software
    that is confusing you. This has been rehashed
    many times. See http://www.gnu.org for more
    Free Software information, or see a simple
    webpage of a GNU system. http://hurd.dyndns.org

  78. Re:SMTP Spec and My thoughts on open source softwa by kz45 · · Score: 0

    if you don't release your code, you are afraid of people looking at your poorly programmed code

    sounds almost as truthful as:

    if you don't let the government have the keys to your encryption, you must have something to hide.

  79. OSS by kz45 · · Score: 1, Informative

    The City of bojmir, the oldest and one of the largest cities in Switzerland, is planning on a switch to Linux in order to sav licensing fees from linux.

    1. Re:OSS by Smoking · · Score: 1

      Sorry pal, no Bojmir in Switzerland...(I live there)

      You certainly meant Sweden (often confused with Switzerland) or Finland (Where there's actually such a project...)

  80. sorry...no can do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we gotta fight you assholes on every front. Posing as one of the good guys won't work now.

  81. the toilet seat again...here ya go fucko README by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although I definitely don't agree with my government, I have to say that the $500 (it wasn't 5,000 shitass) toilet seat was because it was (I'm speaking loosely here) a very unique toilet seat aboard a fighter jet or something..basically so the pilot could shit while flying or something...but anyway...FUCK OFF and do some research next time ya armchair politician

    1. Re:the toilet seat again...here ya go fucko README by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just toilets either. If you spend any time in the military you would know that just about anything the govt buys costs way more then what you could buy at the mall. Mostly this is due to writing the specs so that only one company can make it anc charge whatever they want. Go talk to any govt contractor and they'll tell you how much they jacked up the price because they were selling to the govt.

      So yes there was plenty of dick sucking going on. All those bribes MS laid on senators did not go to waste.

  82. This is not about Linux vs Windows by marm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Living in this country that "supports open source" I am rather sceptically about the whole issue.

    Well, you should know then that the German federal government has already sponsored the development of one widely-used Open Source project: GnuPG.

    Details are available in English und auf Deutsch.

    This is for real. The German government has realised that it has no confidence that its internal communications are secure and it cannot have that confidence if the communications infrastructure is run by Microsoft software - because they have no way of telling if there are or are not US government-controlled backdoors in Microsoft software. They also cannot be sure that the encryption systems built-in to Microsoft OSes and applications do not have unintentional subtle flaws that make them much easier to crack.

    With all the (understandable) paranoia over the Echelon system, it is easy to see why they want a solid encryption solution that is entirely under their control.

    It has nothing to do with price or better license conditions from Microsoft. It is about having an encryption system that is widely-used, rock-solid and verifiably free from backdoors.

    Even if Microsoft offered the German government a source license, how can they be sure that the released version of Windows and the source code that they are offered are equivalent? Quite apart from anything else, there are significant chunks of Windows that Microsoft do not own the rights to, and thus cannot provide under a source license.

    So, let me repeat again: this is not about Linux vs Windows. It is about having a solid, secure, verifiable communications channel that the German government can have confidence in - confidence that they cannot have with Microsoft software.

  83. chills... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    does anyone else get the chills when they hear the words "german government"?

    1. Re:chills... by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Only if you're a dickhead.

      --
      -- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
  84. Help with ad campaign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You guys seem pretty bright.

    As an out-of-work "Open Source" programmer, I've decided to start selling my ass to the highest bidder. I've grown my hair long, cut back on bathing, and bought some creepy sandals from the local salvation army store.

    What would be a catchy phrase to have silk-screened on a t-shirt? I'm thinking one of the following, but suggestions are always welcome.

    1) Championship Orifice Wrestling: One fall, you win.
    2) Anus: The other pink meat.
    3) Sphincter: It's not just for breakfast anymore.

    What do you think? Any better ideas?

  85. PGP? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2

    Why do all government projects seem to involve S/MIME and X.509? What's wrong with PGP and PGP certificates? They actually have some users and software support.

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  86. Re:Why shouldn't they? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are you talking about? I'm talking about facts how government agencies and the lawsystem works, not about a particular case or company.

    Judges and courts punish people and organisations, noone else.

  87. Germany: highest amount of Linux users per capita by Qbertino · · Score: 2, Interesting
    AFAIK, Germany has the highest amount of Linux users per capita. Germany often officially considers itself behind in the IT race with other nations, especially the US, but that's mostly due to a typical US focused view.

    A good Joke about that is "gang und gäbe" with IT professionals: "If we (the germans) wanna take a wordwide lead in IT, we shouldn't try do so by focusing on the lousiest propritary american OS we can lay hands on."
    Quite my position :-).

    OSS is cool, '133+, democratic and modern, and the density of tech savy people, due to the high education level (compred to USA) reaches critical mass well enough. Which means politians don't wanna out themselves as 'not tech savy' by not joining in the "oss is the future" policy.
    I wouldn't be suprised if Europe realy takes the lead in IT tech by doing a solid amount of OSS lobbying.

    BTW: IMHO, succes of Linux in Germany is also widely based on the famos SuSE Distro.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  88. OT: Re:In a few years by Voidhobo · · Score: 1
    Why go so far back in history? The U.S. south has a sad recent history of racism (and even a present). Sure, no justification for anything, but it's hypocritical to point across the ocean and forget your own neighborhood (I'll just suppose you're a US-American...)

  89. Re: super long agency names by s390 · · Score: 2

    Bundesamt für Sicherheit in der Informationstechnik

    Loosely, that's "State Office for Information Technology Security." It's not an especially long German bureaucratic name.

    BTW, the WWII Nazi spycatcher agency was the SD, an acronym for "Sicherheits Dienst." Try saying that three times, fast.

    The German security agencies are puckering up and paying more attention lately. It seems they weren't concerning themselves much with immigrant international terrorists, but were concentrating on homegrown neo-Nazis instead. They're scrambling to catch up now (and doing a fairly credible job).

  90. For the last time (OT) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whether or not anything I write is a quality post or not has absolutely nothing to do with my reputation as a "troll."

    HTH. HAND. ;)

    -perdida

  91. Re: super long agency names by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

    Oh, they looked out for all sorts of terrorists alright, but how are you going to identify somebody as a terrorist when the only unusual thing about them is that they (unlike most other students) paid their TV licence?

    --

    Lars T.

    To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  92. Re:Serious Trouble by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

    So is the US.

    --

    Lars T.

    To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  93. That is if... by Voidhobo · · Score: 1
    Of course all this will only happen if we are still going to want to use Linus' kernel, after his blue and white Suomi boys didn't let us score on them today....

    By the way: Anybody see a conspiracy theory in this? Sphinx... pyramids... Novus Ordro Seclorum, powered by Open Source technology.... and we all know that the Germans are always the bad guys, I mean why else would James Bond always fight big, bad, bald, bold Germans?

  94. Ah, socialism. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Strikes me that democratic socialist governments do a good job of "getting it" when it comes to free software.

    Perhaps some reconsideration of ideology is in order.

    (Second anonymous post, today. "It's not cowardice, it's caution.")

  95. German Jaywalking by BigTom · · Score: 1

    I don't know the word but I think it is illegal there. IIRC there is a law against jaywalking and the punishment (inflicted on the spot) is to have to stand with the traffic cop until he feels you've wasted enough time that you've missed the apointment that was so urgent that you had to take an illegal shortcut.

    1. Re:German Jaywalking by pete-classic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it is illegal here (USA) as well. That was my point. It is illegal in both places, but Germans actually care.

      See how this supports my orginal statment?

      -Peter

  96. Re:In a few years by James+Skarzinskas · · Score: 1

    context that only their sad, small self could think of in the first place.