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Intel Tualatin Processors and Motherboard Support?
IntelIntrique asks: "I became intrigued when I learned about the new P3 Tualatin processors with a 512K cache, but was disappointed to learn that they require specific new motherboards to support the chips (Intel claims voltage changes). However, HotHardware features a review where they use one of these new processors in an Intel D815EEA2 motherboard, one that Intel shows as not supporting the new processor. What gives?"
"I have an D815EEA2, and I'd love to grab one of these new processors, but not if it means buying a new motherboard. Is Intel trying to prevent existing motherboard owners from cashing in on this new super chip? Are there any other slashdotters who have tried these new P3's in older motherboards with success? I'm mainly concerned with people using the processors in Intel boards, since it seems as though Intel would be in a unique position to know what types of new chips might be around the corner, and build unofficial support into early board revs."
seems there are slot1 adapters for BX boards in developement here Http://www.powerleap.com/Products/iP3T.htm
Hmm, follows the normal Intel marketing trend. Make new processor, make it use a proprietery motherboard, and clean up on the profits after making everyone else believe that its the fastest thing out there. BUT, won't this backfire? Intel seems to be pushing the "Megahertz Myth" pretty hard. To the average consumer, Pentium 3 1.2 gigahertz is not as good as that pretty new Pentium 4 2 gigahertz processor. We shall see......
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&o
Intel has several different versions of the Tualatin, the 256K cache version for the desktop, and the 512K cache versions, one for the mobile segment and one for the lower-end workstation/server market. The Tualatin processors require a different stepping in the 810 and the 815 chipsets to support the new voltages as well as a new revision of 1.25V GTL versus 1.5V GTL+ used in the original Pentium III processors, which aren't compatible. More information about this can be found in the Pentium III-S Datashet here.
As far as motherboard compatibility, I think Intel didn't want the 512K version of the Tualatin (aka the Pentium III-S) to flow through the retail/desktop channels because in a lot of cases, it performed better than their lower end Pentium 4 processor line. That's also the reason why Intel has slowed/stopped production of Pentium 4 processors below 1.6Ghz and will halt production of the desktop version of the Tualatin and shift the current desktop Tualatin into the Tualatin-based Celeron (but without data pre-fetch and only at 100Mhz FSB). More information can be found at the regular sites: Anandtech, Aces Hardware, Tom's Hardware.
I am the "happy" owner of the Asus TX97e board with Intel's TX chipset. Intel intentionally crippled the chipset so that it caches only 64MB of RAM. If you have more than that, the performance goes down the toilet. After I upgraded my machine to 256MB RAM, Norton System Information benchmark went from 110 to 70 (AMD K6-2/300). It's not a scientific benchmark but still quite telling. Thank you Intel!
And don't even get me started on what they tried (and are still trying) to pull off with Rambust...
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
No, it's called a marketing mistake. They should have been truthful in advertising, and then they could have been raking in the dough on the new P3, but now they have to cripple it to save face. It's not capatilism, It's stupidity.
.5 watts. The good thing is that they're playing it right in the corporate/embedded space where they know they can't pull the wool over people's eyes. Intel would have been in serious trouble if they had actually canned the P3 completely. They would have lost alot of business to IBM and Motorola and been left with only the rapidly declining consumer market.
It's especially unfortunate, bucause it'll be a long time if ever before we see another processor that is both as fast as the new P3, and uses only
Probably much more interesting is that the tualatin core has shown a lot more promise than current P4s. This review (http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010919/inde x.html) over at Toms shows how a measly 1.2 tualatin holds it's own with the P4.. and overclocked to 1.5 it can be see that it has much more potential than the P4, even with the P4 running on rambus and the P3 on SDRAM! At the end of that review Tom mentions how the tualatin core is capable of 'much higher clock speeds', but it seems Intel is keeping them down because they don't want it to compete with it's 'Big Brother', however underachieving he is.
Personally I have ordered myself a Tualatin 1.2, I choose it over the P4 offerings.
Depends a bit, I suppose if those features are even implemented on the mother board. They may be unused on some boards, so in which case, you might just get away with it.
After that I'd need the spec sheets with pin outs, etc for both processors. Not that I have the time to pick it apart.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I have a Tyan Tiger 100 (rev. F) with 2 P2-450's. I'm planning to upgrade, but the fastest officially support chip is the P3-850 (100 MHz FSB). Does anybody know if I can us Tualatin processors with this board, perhaps with some kind of slotket? (Or, does anybody know if it's stable with the 100 MHz FSB P3-1GHz?) Any advice is really welcome... the processor upgrade will be the last uprade I do before getting a new motherboard, so obviously, I want to do the best I can.
It says that the chip they reviewed had only a 256K cache, and that 512K would come in future versions. Without 512K, the chip is compatible with current motherboards.
Intel needs to sell more chipsets because via DARED to touch into their lucrative chipsets market.
No but seriously, tell me you can design a 40 million transistor chip that runs in gigaherts, and not make a design for it to be compatible with current motherboards out there? Talk about bad will. I was hoping to upgrade my serverworks-based workstation with 2 of these monsters, well seems like I'll keep the 800mhz... See intel? your plan on selling chipsets for what, 25$ each, costed you the sell of 2 processors, of what, few hundred bucks each?... I'm sure I am not the only one who'll react like this or turned his head towards the TigerMP platform.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
or the latest version of the comparable VIA Apollo Pro chipset. Search pricewatch for the terms "FCPGA2" or "tualatin". Such board include:
Abit ST6/ST6-RA, Abit VH6-T Asus TUSL2, Soyo SY-TISU
Some board makers have been using the i815-B but don't mention it in the board specs ; marketing hasn't caught up with production yet.
BTW, the newest Celeron 1.2GHz uses the Tualatin core; no hardware prefetch and it uses a 100MHz FSB, but it can overclock to 1.5GHz with at most a minor voltage jump and standard cooling.
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The part might work in the non-specified board, but if you take another of the same part and board, it might not.
It's not "supported" because Intel didn't spend on the testing to ensure that it's supposed to work at levels that don't cost Intel a lot of returns.
They changed the voltages on the part to get some other benefit (lower power, more speed, better yield, whatever), and couldn't guarantee the old boards would work, so they designed a new board.
It's not that big a deal (unless you think it is) because people who pull their CPU and replace it are relatively few and far between.
--Blair
I agree about the motherboard specs. I never would have believed a conspiracy. If the chip has a lower core voltage then it is quite possible and even likely that the board manufacturers didn't build the board to provide the new lower voltage, even if the bridge chip supports it.
I don't think that Intel is evil, I just think that their marketing department has made some mistakes lately.
It's kinda neat to see Intel using familiar places in the Northwest as their product names. Willamette (which nobody knows how to pronounce - it's "wil-LAM-et", not "wil-la-MET"), Tualatin... what can we expect next? Multnomah? Clackamas? Columbia perhaps.
:-)
For those of you not familiar with local geography, the Clackamas river flows into the Willamette river (a mile from my house), which flows north through downtown Portland into the Columbia, which of course flows into the Pacific. The Portland metropolitan area spans Multnomah, Clackamas and Washington counties. Multnomah Falls is the second highest year-round waterfall in the country. Most things in the Northwest have either Native American names (mmm, Tillamook cheese), or names that were brought from the east coast by Lewis & Clark, John McLaughlin and other settlers.
Sorry for babbling off-topic.
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HardOCP.com sez:
There will be a few of you excited about this. Powerleap has put together an adapter that will allow you to stick a S370 Tualatin chip on your current Slot 1 mainboard. Looks as if some of you might have some server upgrade options that you did not before. w00t!!1
The PL-iP3/T(TM) employs patented technologies to adapt Slot 1 systems to the voltage and signal requirements of the new generation of Intel's Pentium III (FC-PGA2) and Celeron-II (FC-PGA2) processors. With the PL-iP3/T(TM), a typical* P-III system can reach speeds up to 1.26 GHz with the latest Pentium III-S CPUs (133 MHz FSB required), and up to 1.2 GHz when used with the latest Celeron-II CPUs (100 MHz FSB required).
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
From the story:
"... HotHardware features a review where they use one of these new processors in an Intel D815EEA2 motherboard, one that Intel shows as not supporting the new processor. What gives?"
If I understand the table correctly, it is probably just a case of not having updated their web site. Intel is notoriously sloppy about things like that.
About a year ago I called and talked to an Intel employee about a huge mistake on their web site. He said it would be fixed immediately. Eight months later the error was still there. I called and talked to the same man again about the same error. He didn't realize I had called before. He told me again it would be fixed immediately. Again it was not fixed. This is just one example.
Be careful with the D815EEA2 motherboard. If you remove a removeable drive, it may re-configure the BIOS, without any warning, and boot from the wrong drive.
Be careful with the network adapter if it is built into the D815EEA2. It assumes that it is attached to a huge network. If it is attached to a peer-to-peer network, you may not be able to make it function. An Intel technical support person and I worked on this problem for more than an hour. The final answer was to buy a CNET network adapter for $12.00 and disable the network adapter on the motherboard.
Also, if you are running a Raid 0 controller like the Promise Technology FastTrak 100, the D815EEA2 BIOS has a very weird configuration. It is not obvious how you get the motherboard to boot from the Raid controller, because the way you select it is hidden.
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