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Nokia 5510 - Cell Phone and More
matthew.thompson writes: "Nokia have released a phone to give the RIAA nightmares - it includes built in MP3 playing AND encoding and an FM stereo radio - so you can MP3 up tracks from the Radio or from an external source via a line in jack. It's also got a full qwerty style keyboard and GameBoy Advance style layout. RIAA headache inducing features here and piccies etc here." I'm not quite sure how this works - Nokia's page says the gizmo plays "secure" mp3 files, which sounds to me as if it is crippled. Here are some hi-res photos. Update: 10/11 12:59 GMT by M : Ahh, my misreading. It says "secure AAC and MP3 files", and apparently "secure" is intended to apply only to AAC. According to the FAQ, the phone is crippled - only stores crippled AAC files, not unencumbered mp3's. A shame.
Devices that do everything are usually pushed aside in favour of an individual device that does something.
I like that kind of 'modularity'.
-
And the Angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots! The cries of the carrots!"
Do we really need to carry this much technology? My thought is that its too much for one unit to handle. Probably have to reboot it every now and then when it crashes. I want my phone to provide good phone audio when I call people. I want the battery to last as long as possible so I can call people on the phone. I want good range, SO I CAN CALL PEOPLE ON THE PHONE. If I want music/MP3 I'll get a walkman or a Rio.
Don't Tread on Me
I don't like how this cell phone that doesn't really have any new features at all (phones with mp3 players have been available for almost 2 years).
get this much exposure, while the technically more interesting solutions (GPRS, built in bluetooth, POP3 and SMTP client etc.) like the Ericsson T39 and the upcoming T68 doesn't.
the only thing new about this thing is the keyboard and the poor stand by time.
Anyway, to end the controversy: Much like the Nokia Music Player, the 5510 plays both AAC (the proprietary, "secure" filetype) and MP3. The MP3 player is NOT crippled in any way. You copy the file from your PC to the player and that's that. (It holds 64MB, just like the regular Nokia Music Player).
Blue skies, Barthy Burgers, girls...
It's a great device, a novel new design, has plenty of new devices, but until we upgrade our wireless capability in N. America, we won't be using it for a while.
Availability: Europe, Africa, Asia Pacific in the 4th quarter of 2001
I say we go the DoCoMo route, insted of WAP anyways. Plus, where's the PDA functionality. It seems more a gameboy than a business tool.
--- RFC 1149 Compliant.
Nokia's page says the gizmo plays "secure" mp3 files, which sounds to me as if it is crippled
I can find no reference to "secure" mo3. It doe say that it supports AAC (which can have DRM) and MP3...
What do you know I wrote a novel
so it won't upset the RIAA. why don't people check these things *before* posting them.
see here for the availability and operating frequencies. duh!
Now as i usually touchtype at 120wpm,
I would like my fingers to magically resize and fit whatever the keyboard size is.
The MP3 features are nice, but it's great to finally have a full keyboard that doesn't require a stylus to operate (ala Palm-ish phones). The only real, cool feature IMHO. I love my Nomad, don't play handheld games much and not interested in being in Nokia's "club".
... ahh ... err ... phone?!
There does need to be some significant improvements in *power* options if we are supposed to be convinced to be electronically tethered 24/7. I doubt the 2hrs claim will be the norm for most folks.
All the next rev needs is Java, integrated GPS, color screen and old Nintendo/Atari emulation. Now *that* will be a great
Mind the gap...
According to the FAQ the software (for a 'compatible' PC) encrypts any music you want to listen to to AAC format (not heard of that one before) before the phone can download it. It does that to MP3s as well as any other media that you want to store on the phone.
What does having a MP3 player built in do to your phone's battery life?
What do people think about the trend of lumping more and more functionality into single devices? Most people seem to think it's a bad idea with software, is hardware any different?
-- Andy
It seems more like a gameboy than a business tool
Agreed. After looking at their music info page, I'd swear the target market is the teenage Napster crowd.
But with detachable faceplates for Nokia phones and such, that tactic has been used for a while now.
I like fire ants. They are very spicy!
Anyway, it would be false advertizing on the part of my employer, if it did.
Blue skies, Barthy Burgers, girls...
Already a lot of public places forbid you from using cell phones. With all due apologies to the road warriors, I have a feeling that the convergence of music games et al into a cell will only add more to the problem.
Waiter: Sir, you cannot talk on a cell inside the hotel sir.
Me: Oh no, I was just excited about Commander Keen.
Waiter: Huh? I doubt you are allowed to talk to Mr.Keen either, sir.
Me: aaaaaaaaarggggggggghhhhh
Did you missed the fact that it is much more battery effective to play MP3 using a special decoding chipset? I'm sure this phone includes one, otherwise it will probably be usable as a portable heater, too.
So why do you say this is a software thingie? It sure is a hardware thing as what you are asking for.
but maybe it could become more cooler if Nokia worked together with some PDA-company (Best choice would be Palm IMHO). They could reduce the keyboard's size be building one of these in it to make more room for the screen.
Devices is this one allready excist but most are a PDA that you can make phonecalls with or a cellphone that remembers your appointments.
Easy. The big mobile phone manufacturers (Nokia, Ericcson, Siemens) are all based in Europe where we have GSM-Nets. Surely they will first produce a phone which can work in there home countries. And GSM won't work very well in the USA (except the few GSM1900 nets).
:-) This will change with the emerge of UMTS however.
Face it: The USA had the first mobile phone networks but this is also the reason why you are using long outdated technology. Sometimes its better to be late but get good new technology
heh, that already happens with normal mobile phones.
i believe there was a case recently here in the UK where some twat was driving along while typing out a text message on his phone, lost control of the car and crashed into a park or something. luckily no one was injured. i think he was just charged with dangerous driving.
(begin rant)
some people just have no common sense when using phones and driving, you shouldnt be bloody driving whilst holding a phone up to your ear. get a hands free kit if you really _have_ to talk to someone right then and now. there cant be many things that are _so_ urgent that you cant wait 30 seconds to find somewhere to pull over.
bah
Here is a nokia music player press release dated March this year. It says 32megs for an hour of music. (Must be a pretty crummy bitrate though). Today's link claims 2 hours, but I doubt that's at the standard 128kbps. Anybody know how much memory in this thing?
Great, just another gimmic to attract the younger croud. As I walk around, I'm seeing a ton of teenagers with no more reason for a phone than to "stay in touch with all their friends". It's more like be bothered consitantly and cause headaches for everyone else because they can't talk quietly.
It's not just kids either. I walk around a major University here in the US and practically everyone has them and is always on them. It's the first thing they do out of class. It's what they do on the bus. It's become a cult and a horrible addiction.
I'm not saying cell phones aren't important. They have many great uses and I plan on getting one as soon as I graduate (not enough comfortable capital yet because of rising education costs) for work and long distance (much cheaper!!!).
Does anyone agree with me? It seems like there's more people out there that don't have a need for them - especially the younger croud. Live life; meet new people - like the people sitting next to you in the bus; and get off the damn phone.
Why does Nokia care if the file format on the phone is "protected" or not? Is there some kind of phone-to-phone transfer capability that opens up the opportunity for "piracy"?
If I have an MP3 file and Nokia software converts it to "protected AAC", I can [technically] still share the old MP3 copy with half of the planet via P2P, right?
I realize the whole question is academic because the phone is not going to be in the US anytime soon.
Personally, I have no use for a music player in my phone, but I can imagine college students who might want lightweight, multi-function devices. I'd rather have MP3 capability in a PDA.
The battery life on this phone/music toy must be pitiful.
According to the FAQ:
Can I play downloaded MP3 files on the Nokia 5510?
Yes, the Nokia 5510 can play MP3 files in protected format. Copies of the downloaded music files are added to the Nokia Audio Manager database. Nokia Audio Manager encrypts the music files and downloads the protected MP3 format to the memory of the Nokia 5510.
In what format is the music saved in my hard disk?
All the songs are saved in encrypted AAC format.
So it looks like the Audio manager encryps mp3's before they get sent to the device. Which also means that you probably can't download and play then on another machine. It also probably means that the format on the device is NOT mp3. more like AAC format, which is exactly the reason why I haven't got a Sony Memorystick walkman...
Maybe what you saw has been changed by the marketing folks to conform to 'industry standards'?
/b
[Please type your sig here.]
The music formats supported by the Nokia Music Player are AAC (Advanced Audio Coding), secured with InterTrust digital rights management technology, and MP3.
By providing AAC within InterTrust's DRM system, distributors can not only rest assured that the codec will be used appropriately, but they may now offer innovative DRM-based licensing models for the technology.
Nokia 5510 * Availability: Europe, Africa, Asia * Operating frequency: EGSM 900/1800 networks in Europe, Africa, and Asia Pacific
No mention of a US version as far as I can find.
Sounds like this item is pretty much inline with RIAA rather than being their nightmare.
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
From reading the spec, the poxy thing has 64Mb for MP3 storage, an FM radio, and still has annoying bleepy ringtones rather than sample-based ones like (at least) Sony mobiles have.
No sign of IR data in the specs either, which is more or less standard in other Nokia WAP phones...
Nearly, but not quite. (add smartmedia or CF support to the wishlist)
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
for their nonsensical allocation of radio spectrum.
I can't get anything this cool to use on (VoiceStream) GSM 1900.
Guess I'll just have to buy one for my GF and visit her more often.
In order for me to buy a phone, it needs to be two things 1) shiny, and 2) small.
I love Nokia phones, esp the two I have, the 8860, and the 8890 - and they pass the "smaller than my penis" test. and they are shiny as all get out.
but this monster looks huge. how exactly are you to carry it around? and only a small part of it is shiny.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Can I tune in, encode and stream? Why? Cuz I potentially could! There's always some novel use for seemingly useless technology. And someone who reads /. will probably hack it to achieve such a feat!
Que Deus te de em dobro o que me desejas
[May God give you double that which you wish for me]
Well, in watching my younger brother and sisters chat on the internet, i can tell you that they all already know the ones they want to use, which is pretty much limited to cya, wtf, rofl, lol, brb, and ttyl... figure they would never say for what its worth, be back in a bit, in my humble opinion, and away from keyboard in meatspace, so why would they say it in cyberspace? One thing im surprised about is the lack of "stfu" adoption. And IANAL. :)
Just some idle speculation on what comes next: :-)
1. color screen (already available in some cell phones
2. digital camera?
3. video camera for video phone shots of peoples ears or mouths
4. better pim software
5. optional sxga video output - so that you can see what you are typing, and play games like they should be played
6. back to the real: voice recording to mp3 (strangely, this one doesn't seem to do this)
7. text-voice-text features
8. direct neural connection to allow immersive VR conference calls (orgies)
Cheers.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
There are phones that do that - Sony
CMD-MZ5 and CMD-J6 do it if you don't mind lining Sony's pockets (I try to avoid it - especially where the MemoryStick is involved).
I like the idea of a real ring from such a tiny phone though. I always fancied a Slayer riff as a completely-non-jingly ringtone.
[It took me a stupidly long time to find that link - Sony's website is almost as bad as 3Com's.]
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
"recently selected by BMG and Universal Music as the preferred platform for digital music delivery. Advanced Audio Coding is highly compatible with digital copy protection protocols and watermarking"
Almost the same as RIAA approval right there.
and from the Music FAQ
"In what format is the music saved in my hard disk?
All the songs are saved in encrypted AAC format."
Everything is encrypted.
"Can I play downloaded MP3 files on the Nokia 5510?
Yes, the Nokia 5510 can play MP3 files in protected format. Copies of the downloaded music files are added to the Nokia Audio Manager database. Nokia Audio Manager encrypts the music files and downloads the protected MP3 format to the memory of the Nokia 5510."
Yes, MP3's are encrypted too.
There IS one good piece of news though...
"Does the Nokia 5510 support WMA?
No, it doesn't"
No support for Microcrud format, heh heh.
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Not quite.
It was a LORRY driver who was composing a text message while driving. He failed to see a car in front of him, smashed into it at high speed, killing the guy in the car. Having caused a fatal crash he then completed his text message (it was the text message being sent that got him caught). Presumably he must have sent the text message before calling for an ambulance ! (since most phones won't let you make a call in mid-text-message-compose, and then revert to the message where you left off.)
Nice guy huh ! Drives unsafely, killing someone (not that he would have known whether they were dead, dying or very seriously injured), then completes his text message before calling for an ambulance !
United States GSM-Systems are on 1900 MHz not on 900 or 1800 like the european ones (900+1800 were already used in the united states). So you need a GSM phone which can work on 1900 MHz or a triple-band which can work 900/1800/1900. This phone is only 900/1800.
"the phone is crippled - only stores crippled AAC files, not unencumbered mp3's. A shame."
Kinda defeats the purpose of the article itself, doesn't it?
"Nokia have released a phone to give the RIAA nightmares."
The FAQ states that the files are stored encrypted, but the link from above (http://www.nokia.com/phones/5510/spotlight_music. html) shows an example of copying the music from one 5510 to another. So how should this work if the music is encrypted? Only idea is that the music is encrypted with a common key, but it should be not so difficult to rip out the key from the pc based conversion software (same way, DVD was hacked).
This runs with the help of a ARM7 core.
Which is what they use in the new RIO and the Game Boy Advance (GBA).
So the potential is there to create a clone of a GBA (but without carts).
This would see you download your game to phone so you could have a library of games that you have paid for and when you want a new one you pay for it and it becomes part of your library (reducing the number of games that can be stored to1 save the amount of flash and so how expensive the end unit is ).
The technically this is easy legally this is easy since nitendo just licensed the ARM ISA (the publishers would have to publish through a new medium but that's simple enough)
the problem is the screen
Battery life on phones has to be quite long
LCD are the single greatest drain on a battery to put in a screen of the GBA's resolution would mean the battery life of in use would decrease considerably
sad really
regards
john jones
p.s. how long to EPOC GBA emulator is seen I wonder (-;
An alternative to passport? I found this more interesting than a new phone. .NET as a proprietary solution, but now Nokia is making a shot too, and their effort aims for an open and standards-based solution."
"Microsoft is attempting something like this with its Passport effort which is tied into
So we've got an old cellphone network here in the US and Europe has got a newer one. What happens 5 years from now, when the next generation hits? Will your modern network be able to upgrade easily then? Or will you be in the same boat we are?
Similar thing with HDTV - don't want to make HD programs until people have the boxes, don't want to buy the box until there's a lot of digital programming (and the cost comes way down.)
These things have a way of sorting themselves out. It might be that Africa ends up being the most wired country, 50 years from now, because when they finally get around to building their infrastructure they will be using the brand new stuff and we'll all be stuck with the old crap.
During the 80's and Reagan's Voodo Economics, Japan was top dog, financially. They used to hold meetings to try to figure out how to help out the US economically. Now look at whose economy is in the crapper.
Alright, in europe, every youth carries a cell phone, its a requirement...well at least in sweden and finland. So, if they can get music out of it also, then thats wonderful. That means not having to carry a minidisc along with the cell phone, and with tight pants all the craze, there isn't much room for a plethora of devices.
Two, there is a massive element of irony that this phone, with its full keyboard, will sell beautifully on the deaf market. (The irony being that it plays music)...SMS is a HUGE thing for deaf people, who can use their cellphones to communicate to full potential, and a full keyboard is a godsend for them.
Its a grand product.
Heck, even fishball vendors (the ones who sell food-on-sticks on the sidewalks in urban places) and jeepney drivers (i.e. public transportation guys) actually own cellphones here, and they use it mainly for SMS messages (frequently pronounced by Filipinos as just "texts")
It's the simplest way to keep connected in this side of the world. Then again, SMS is pretty cheap here at PhP1.00 (around US$0.02) compared to a cellphone call at PhP6.00/minute. You also get hundreds of free messages per month, too.
Pet peeve: Profane people propagating perfunctory pedantry.
Hehe, but in fact eastern germany _was_ equipped with fiber in large areas after the fall of the wall. Which nowadays leads to problems as DSL is not available to these people.
Deutsche Telekom AG has announced that they are working on a solution for fiber but nothing yet.
Here are some hi-res photos
Since whend did "hi-res" mean "larger than a postage stamp? High-resolution is more like a 300dpi photo, not this slightly larger picture.
- j
A shame? If I'm playing MP3's on my cell phone in general, chances are that I'm going to be using some kind of proprietary interface to get the tracks onto the phone to begin with. I have no intention of playing P2P with this thing (and I don't know if it's even feasible).
That said, the average music lover would probably toss a few CD's into their CD-ROM drives, copy the songs to this AAC format on the phone, and be done with it. If I have no purpose to transfer these AAC files anywhere else, why should I care if they are quote-unquote "cripped"?
It may be a neat gadget, but this lady on their page is having way too much fun with it.
If I ever reach a point where this phone can give me that much joy, I'll have bigger issues to address in my life.
//ct
I have some interest in this, since I'm an ex-German. (Born in Dachau. Naturalized American in 1982.)
Strange thing. In Norway, Mongo is a rather rude term for a person with Down's Syndrome. OK, Norway is a small country, but about 95% of people aged 15-30 own a mobile phone, most of them Nokias, and after all, Finland (home of Nokia) is pretty close to here. Why choose "Retard" (actually, it's a lot worse :-) as their mascot name?
Beats me.
get a Free BSD!
According to the FAQ, the phone is crippled - only stores crippled AAC files...
Since when does encrypted automatically mean the fortmat is crippled? Nowhere in the FAQ do I see the word "crippled." DVD's are not crippled, the encryption on the disk does not affect the quality of the picture or the sound. DVD's are encrypted, the content is scrambled, but not degraded. In the same regard, I'd assume the phone plays normal AAC files post-decrypting them. But hey, what would I know...
9 Million _people_. Does every single man, woman and child have a cellphone. Bwahah. As if.
It's more like 1-2 million people sending 500 million messages per year. Which is a lot. Those who write a greater portion of that would find a keyboard quite useful.
Roughly 80 per cent of the Swedish population has a mobile phone (not sure if that includes children, but in the UK many teenagers have mobile phones and I'm sure Sweden is even more mobile mad). Source: http://www.line56.com/articles/default.asp?NewsID= 2924
In almost every developed country other than the US, mobile phones are used by the majority of the population. Outside the US, the calling party pays extra for calls to a mobile (rather than the called person), which means that people are more likely to give out their mobile numbers, generating more traffic and making mobiles more popular. That's one reason why the US lags greatly in the use of mobiles, along with the lack of unified standards (CDMA, GSM and TDMA, and still lots of analogue).
Big words from an anonymous coward!