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Treo, Combination Cellphone and PDA
-homb- writes: "Finally, Handspring has done it before everyone else: The Treo, a combination cellphone, wireless POP3 email, and PalmOS PDA. Plus, the first version comes with or without a keyboard. I love my Blackberry, and it looks like the keyboard is the way to go for email. And the next version coming later on next year will have color." We mentioned these earlier.
Hasn't the Mitsubishi Trium Mondo (a CE-based PDA/Phone) been available for a while?
:)
As a side note - I recently picked up a Sony CMD-J5 to find it also does SMTP/POP3 in addition to the normal WAP services - and the WAP browser (Microsoft Mobile Explorer) can cope with 'simple HTML' - it's good enough to browse Slashdot in 'light' mode, at least
Looks like they basically took this springboard module and integrated it.. But this device doesn't have the springboard modularity. And quite frankly since using the iPaq, I can't see dealing with a greyscale 160x160 screen again..
air and light and time and space
Great product, nice to see more Smartphones, but first? You could have bought (months ago in some cases):
Ericsson R320 (Symbian)
Nokia 9210 (Symbian)
Mitsubishi Trium Mondon (PocketPC)
Sagem WA 3050 (PocketPC)
Kyocera QCP 6035 (Palm)
Qualcomm PDQ phones (Palm)
I'm probably leaving some out. So, great idea yes, first, no.
--- There's no place like 127.0.0.1
So where is the bluetooth connectivity on this one?
This device has been around for a while. As a bonus it's cellular therefore is available where GSM is not.
War is necrophilia.
I wonder if these smart phones will get mainstream or if they always ill be the tech kid's gadget. Take the nice Sony VAIO's for instance: nice machines, but too small to really "use". Will you read your e-mail on a smart phone? Do you get your mail subjects on your regular cell phone right now? Better question even: Do you want to?
StarTrek.org Free Webmail
a beowulf clu.....
you get the picture
What was the name of the PDA Cellphone combo from about 1993/1994? I remember seeing it in all the magazines back in the hayday of the Newton/Zarus/Psion/Zoomer/etc. It looked about the size of a household cordless phone (narrow, tall) but had a narrow, tall touch-sensitive LCD on it. As I recall, it wasn't anything too special, and wasn't compatible with anything, but it still was very cool
I'll have to dig thru my old PopSci issues if noone else can think of it. I remember being wowed by that little gizmo.
Everyone's pointers to prior art seem to be missing the same thing - keyboard! People who have used the RIM find the keyboard faster and more accurate for short email messages.
So that's the combo - Palm, cell, keyboard.
Being GSM is not a problem - that's the direction that AT&T is headed, so that coverage is coming. And GPRS instead of cellular means that the mailer can step out occasionally to look for mail, without the network having to push it all the way down to the handset.
There is an app for palms(called mirror or something like that) that just shows a completly black screen and allows the lcd to act like a mirror.
Some one should tell all the 'little girlies' that seem to buy new mobile phones every other month to keep up with the latest ring tone, vibrator mode, or plastic cover with mickey mouse on that a proper web able phone would let them use chatrooms.
That would immediately become the new killer app. They would kill their brother for one! They would become mass market items, the price would plummet!
Then 'we' wouldn't be forced to pay stupid amounts of money for this kind of kit, on expensive tarriffs.
They'd be Xmas present territory!
How good would that be? We should start a campaign!
So where the spec says it's a 'world' phone, it aint.
IMO 900MHz + 1800MHz + 1900MHz = world phone.
The Treo is the innovative product the Palm community has been expecting from Handsping, and I believe it will be a huge success. Here, in no particular order, is why:
1) Size. Have there been other smartphones? Yes. Like this? No. This is neither a clunky phone-grafted-onto-an-organizer nor a strange organizer-grafted-onto-a-phone. This is a truly integrated product. It is small enough that I will finally be able to ditch my Palm/OmniSky and Nokia for one pocketable device.
2) Keyboard. Even though I've used Graffiti for several years, I have to admit that it is still a pain. Some may disagree, but the fact is that the vast majority of users will be able to enter text faster and more accurately with a QWERTY keyboard--even a thumb keyboard. If you think such keyboards are too small, just look at the success of the RIM Blackberry to see how much people love them.
3) Software. Handspring has done a great job integrating the Palm OS with the phone. They didn't just include a "Dial" app, they've included Blazer (their wonderful browser), Messaging (SMS), Phone Book (a Palm Address Book upgrade that has dialing capabilities), a POP3 client, etc. Out of the box, this will be a true Internet phone.
4) GSM. My fellow Americans may question this (since GSM has relatively limited coverage in the U.S.), but GSM was the right choice for Handspring. When GPRS rolls out (in the U.S. Voicestream has already started), you will be able to upgrade your Treo to support an "always on" wireless connection. Always on is much better than dial-up, even Sprint's "Quick Network Connect" dial-up (which basically just means that Sprint PCS is your ISP). Other, more popular U.S. mobile standards (CDMA, TDMA) are not moving to always on as quickly as GSM (although I've heard reports AT&T is upgrading to GPRS), and a true smart phone needs an always on connection. The other (obvious) advantage of GSM is that Handspring can sell the Treo in Europe and Asia.
Anyway, I will certainly buy a Treo when it comes out, and I think many others will too. The real question is how the Treo will stack up to competitors like the Danger Hiptop.
This is an interesting device, but I see a few problems:
- no GPRS at launch time - this is amazing given the early 2002 launch, surely this device is meant for GPRS? There are already several Pocket PC devices with GPRS that can be bought today (in Europe anyway), but I'm still waiting just for an *announcement* of a Palm OS device with built in GPRS support. The device is meant to be software-upgradeable, but it's unclear when that upgrade will be available.
- can't use Graffiti with keyboard version - there is no built in Graffiti *at all* with this version, not even a pop-up Graffiti window. You have to download a third party tool to do this. What are Handspring thinking?
And Handspring are still using Palm OS 3.5 for no very good reason, and still not using flash for the OS (unlike virtually every mobile phone). The openness, software and integration looks nice, but until they fix these issues I'll just have to carry on waiting.
Finally, Handspring has done it before everyone else
From the website: Coming early 2002
Sounds to me they haven't done anything yet.
Talk about being first: I bought my Nokia Communicator many _many_ years back. (mainly for the l33t telnet client hehe)
They are supplying this through various mobile operators - at least in Europe, you typically sign up for a year's service to get the discount.
Well this is a dilemma, i already have too many damn palms laying around (a VII, IIIc and a Handspring Visor Deluxe I got as a gift) and i had intended to pick up an ipaq, but i'll be damned if it doesn't look like this is a much better solution.
except for:
why so damn tiny? who asked for something that is only slightly larger then a WAP enabled cell phone display.
the iPaq (which my spellchecker wants to call Iraq) has a cell phone module pending, and it will also do GPS. And if you are married to the PalmOS and want color today you can get the color Handspring Visor Prism and add the Cell Phone module for free (with activation) only with neither of these you don't get the spiffy keyboard... (heh) also the prism isn't as quick as the the Treo, though it does have a bigger 16-bit color display today .
oh hell i just talked myself out of the Treo, and another palm... because well... even though i have heard that the cell phone springboard module actually rocks, the PalmOS development seems to be stagnating while the iPaq not only does every goddamn thing in the world and with a better diplay, you can also jack linux into it when you get sick of WinCE.
man... as a long time Apple guy (easy angry kiddys, i have been building x86 boxes since before you were born and EISA was a hot new bus archetecture) i really hate to see what was once the innovator and hands down best hand held solution (PalmOS) get trumped by another microsoft branded product... i'd help them if i can but i already have three...
1: Good hardware. Handspring doesn't have it. They've got a 33Mhz 16-bit Motorola Dragonball processor. It can (slowly) serve the most basic mobile data needs (email, instant messaging), play a couple of neat little games, and be a pretty effective organizer, but that's about it. Palm OS devices are stuck at 8 or 16MB's of total capacity, which sure as hell means you won't be storing any large files (movies, MP3s, etc) on it. They need modern hardware, like an ARM-derived platform, to overcome these inherent limitations. (I know, I know, Palm says it's working on it, but that was supposed to materialize how long ago now??)
2: Good software. The Palm OS is an old, creaky 16-bit rag that maxxed-out its potential back in '98. Memory isn't protected, there is no support for multi-tasking, and just getting color on that thing was a chore and a half (you still find it only on the most expensive devices). You need a modern 32-bit OS like Symbian's EPOC (or even Pocket PC 2002) to do these things natively. Along with a modern OS comes support for faster, better hardware (both Symbian EPOC and Pocket PC run on ARM-derived RISC processors), and more storage space (like IBM microdrives).
3: Decent network support.The Treo has network connectivity tacked-on as an afterthought. Again, this is the Palm OS's fault, not Handspring's. Back in the day, the Palm OS just wasn't designed to be doing the job it's doing now. But other mobile operating systems were built around this stuff, and can handle wireless network protocols natively. Microsoft's Smartphone platform (code-named Stinger) is set to be deployed in GSM and CDMA networks all over the world next year, and Nokia's 9210 (running on EPOC) will be in both the European/African/Asian and American GSM markets. It'll be pretty simple to add GPRS/EDGE (and then UMTS) support to the device because that's what it was designed to do.
I applaude Handspring for forging ahead, but they've inhereted a real huge (possibly fatal) liability from Palm with that ancient operating system.
Blue skies, Barthy Burgers, girls...
The FAQs for the Treos are here.
Quick sum-up:
Treo 180 = Keyboard, 180g = Graffiti.
No Springboard functionality.
Colour due mid 2002 (extra $200!!).
North America providers = Cingular, VoiceStream, Rogers AT&T, Microcell.
Trade in available for VisorPhone customers.
CDMA version in the works.
The one thing I really want from a phone/PDA combo is to have checkboxes for appointments to turn the ringer off, and back on when the event is over. I usually forget and leave my ringer on untill someone else's phone rings during class, and then turn the ringer off, forget, and leave it in vibrate until I miss a call. It's not _that_ big a deal because nobody ever calls me, but it would be a nice feature anyways ;-)
These look really yummy :-) But the mail client seems to be POP-3 only... Where's IMAP? IMAP is _way_ better for cell phones because on the slow connection you don't want to download attachments, and with IMAP you can just read the mail bodies. And with IMAP the email stays on the server so you can deal with attachments when you get back.
Oh no, not again!
Must... get... chastitybelt... for... creditcard.
Road to Hell is paved with frozen door-to-door salesmen.On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it
This Samsung phone looks more practical to me in the short term: Palm interface and PalmOS, color, and dual-band. Yes, I wouldn't mind having the keyboard and GPRS of the Treo, but who knows when the Treo will actually be shipping, what the service availability and coverage will be, what kind of surchages they will add, etc.
CDMA is no more cellular than GSM
GSM just happens to be the world standard, when will the Yanks understand this?
Dont worry? Your standard GSM SIM card will not work OS unless you pay an extra fee with your Telco.
The benefit is that when abroad you can buy a pre-paid GSM SIM card account so you are contactable to people you choose to give that pre-paid account's number out to.
under the flip lid.
The best PDA keyboard ever
guy2: Excuse me sir, do you have the time
guy1: (dropping suitcases) Sure, it's 10:25am guy2: Hey, that's a great watch. Seems to have some fancy stuff. guy1: Yeah it does. It has a built in phone, the ability to send faxes and it can encrypt any communication with a 124000 bit key guy2: (impressed) Wow, I'd like to buy that guy1: that's not all. it also has built in gps and you can display any map, anywhere in the world with your current position on the display. guy2: I really have to have this watch guy1: It further has the built in time tables of any public transportation anywhere in the world. Also, it manages your investments, calms down your spouse and boils a perfect tea, warns you of earthquakes and wins the lottery. I also plan to implement beaming capabilities, you know, like in Startrek. guy2: OK, I give you 1'000$ guy1: This is impossible sir, it's a prototype. Building it cost me well over 10'000$.And so they haggle for quite some time until they finally agree on a price of 25'000$. Guy2 hands over the money, wears the watch, has a proud smile on his face and walks away.
The seller with obvious effort lifts the two suitcases and yells:
Hey man, don't forget the batteries...
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Damn those fools at Handspring, will they never realise that only offering 4 weeks of use as a mirror is ridiculously short!
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
There's two intersting things about the Treo.
;-)
Firstly, it's the first time one of these phone/pda combo's has been made by a PDA company. Everything else has been made by a mobile phone company.
Secondly is that they appear to have a clear perception of the seperate phone and PDA market requirements. That's why it's been made smaller - to make it fit your hand more like a phone. The missing springboard slot is probably related - it's size issue. Also I suspect that this is similar internally to the visorphone, so there might have been hardware conflicts if they tried to put a slot in. The keyboard is also a nod to mobile phone users, who expect an un-useable keyboard instead of graffitti.
It's interesting, but will it hold up against the Pocket-pc equivelants like that BT O2 thing (again, made by a mobile phone company, not a PDA company).
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
What's the alternative? Microsoft's handheld platforms are nowhere near as usable, mature, or efficient as PalmOS. But unlike Palm, the Microsoft handheld platforms also really don't want to talk to anything other than Windows, and you can't develop for them on anything other than Windows.
As far as I'm concerned, PalmOS is still the best game in town for handhelds and phones. Maybe some of the Linux-based devices will make it out the door at some point. Maybe Palm will come out with a decent, modern 32bit OS soon. But I doubt Microsoft ever gets a clue and starts untying their different systems from one another or starts using open, well-documented ways of storing data; and until they do, I think it's foolish to put your data on their devices.
Microcell's GPRS service has been up and running for a couple of months now. It costs the earth though - 5 cents per Kilobyte or in bulk lots starting at $25 for 2 Meg.
Rogers/AT&T is in the midst of rolling out a GSM network in Canada. It's not up yet, but some time next year when it goes live, they may start supporting this phone. They'll have GPRS too, once they're up.
"Coming early 2002"
> Finally, Handspring has done it before everyone else
Bill Gates has taught you well, slashdot contributor.
Missing:
Color (c'mon B&W is growing old)
Video (a la casio E115) or mp4 codec support
Microdrive
Camera (for video phone or whatever, camera is cool, need it. heh...)
If they want me to pay 600$ canadian for that thing, ish... not!, having a cell phone and a palm III right now is okay with me and it costed me a fraction of that, but I'd be willing to pay a bit more than 600$ if it would have all the features mentionned above, and I am sure a lot of other people here would just drool over a jam-packed pda like that.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
If I want to use a Optus, Telstra or Vodaphone Australia SIM card account abroad I have to pay an extra fee.
If you go abroad with getting 'roaming' as you call it activated & accept the surcharges/fees that involves, the phone won't log onto the networks overseas, when its turned on.
BTW, even though carrier locked GSM phones exist, they are as rare as hens. Everyone I know in Oz who owns mobile phones have changed carriers at least a couple of times, & most quite a few times. None have had any trouble putting SIM cards from other carriers in their phones.
Finally, Handspring has done it before everyone else
A coworker of mine currently has (and has had for over a month) a combo cell-phone and Palm III PDA after he got tired of his separate cell-phone and Palm V.
He said he got it from AT&T, I believe - I don't know if it has the whole POP3 email thing, but it is a combo unit.
The Palm forms part of the screen, and the microphone flips down revealing the full thing, and I think a keypad underneath for dialing. It actually isn't a bad integration, though it is a little wide.
I checked on AT&T's website for it though, no dice - maybe it is discontinued?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I have a normal Sanyo 4500 phone (Sprint PCS) and it has a built-in calculator, games, web browser, messaging, etc. I use it for web & email more than for phone calls actually. It cost me $50. I've yet to see a good PDA sell for that much. Now if only they'd make it possible to jack into their network over the Internet and add an 802.11b interface to the phone. :)
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.