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MSN Forces Outlook POP
Phoenix-D writes: "Qwest.net, my Phoenix-area DSL provider and ISP, recently decided to hand over their ISP buisness to MSN. No huge deal, right? Well, check out this blurb: 'Due to the Microsoft anti-spam initiative, customers are restricted to use their mail services. Therefore, POP3 service is only available when using MSN Explorer, Microsoft Outlook, or Microsoft Outlook Express.'" Awesome. Microsoft's Anti-Spam initiative forces POP users to use the primary sender of mail worms.
This is like Exxon saying if you want to use their gas you have to have an Exxon car. Someone please explain to me again why MS's business practices aren't anti-competitive? I won't even get into how oxymoronic it is to push outlook and hotmail as ways to combat spam, worms, etc..
you can restrict it to only certain clients at the firewall with stateful inspection.. that's one way of doing it.
If MS is RFC compliant (no secret fields that identify the client) they can't enforce it. There is no cliet field in POP3.
I say it is not enforceable and that they're just saying it to force the average user to use MS clients. POP is POP. Try something else and I bet it would work.
Send them a snail-mail to MSN stating that you are an employee of a firm that makes a commercial e-mail client that competes with Outlook. Ask MSN to provide to you, in writing, a statement about the use of non-Microsoft e-mail clients on MSN. Make sure to suggest that this be handled by their lawyers.
If you want to really get their sphincters to pucker, send a copy to the Justice Department.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but POP is a way to *retrieve* email. How does the client that you're using to *retrieve* your mail matter when it comes to spam? Granted, OE has some mail filters that can be used, but so do other clients (procmail anyone?).
I could see this being legit if, somehow, it prevented the SENDING of spam...but it seems like, if anything, it could only possibly prevent your receiving it...that's like telling someone...well, i don't know what that's like telling someone, because it just seems ridiculous...
Juiced? Or Not?
This is probably - and I do stress probably - one of those "we only support outlook and outlook express" sort of things. I mean technically AT&T@Home only allows Windows9x and Mac machines to use their network, but that sure hasn't stopped me. This way the tech support people only have to know (or deal with) two fairly similar programs.
At least one hopes thats it.
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Typical over-reaction that gives /. a reputation for being one-eyed. I suggest someone actually clarify the position before we launch into the inevitable MS bashing (as fun as that may be :-)
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That sentence could be read
"When using Outlook express, Outlook or MSN explorer you will only be able to use pop3"
I think they need to clarify that (and I have a feeling they will if I know slashdotians).
--"Karma is justice without the satisfaction"
I believe they are talking about accessing your HOTMAIL mail account via POP3. As far as I know, as long as this service has been available, you have had to use a MS mail client, as they actually send you ads in a pane at the bottom of Outlook/OE.
I believe there is also a workaround to block the ads, but I can't remember where I saw it.
IMAP is a better protocol. Seriously. And it's just as open as POP[23]. For more info, see the RFC.
So now, just because MS likes a protocol, we're not allowed to like/use it?
The more star systems will slip through your fingers...
- some girl with sticky buns on the sides of her head, Star Wars
This has been rumored for some time. One can escape assimilation by paying an extra $10/month and going to OfficeWorks, although rumor ALSO has it that even OfficeWorks won't be safe from the Evil Empire.
Someone mentioned getting around this. The problem is the DMCA. As I understand it, it's now illegal to do that kind of reverse engineering, i.e. the type that allowed *nix users to connect to SMB via Samba. So basically, through emrbrace and extend, MS can technically and legally exclude non-conformists.
To switch ISPs requires a 3-week downtime. This is done to eliminate the "slamming" phenonemon that plagued Long Distace carriers. I being one of the "renegades" running an alternative OS, have been looking into alternatives.
The problem is that I work from home (so I have between 3-5 machines networked into a DSL line) and it would create no small problem if I were to have to connect via modem for 3 weeks. Although given the alternative, I may be purchasing a modem...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
This is clearly NOT a violations of anybodys rights.. This ISP is private business, and they are out-sourcing thier email hosting to another private business. And THEY have the right to impose ANY DAMN RULES THEY WANT!!.
Just is just as much of a rights violation as:
- Not allowing broadband users to host home servers
- Not imposing limits on the amount of bandwidth you can use
- Not supporting all OS's
- Blocking ports
It's a private business, and it's thier damn business how you use THIER network, THEIR servers, and THEIR routers.
And, it's YOUR damn right to go elsewhere.
Now excuse me. I have to go sue McDonalds becuase they insist on serving me Coke, and it's my right to want and get Pepsi.
--knick
The solution is simple enough, get another ISP. I don't even use the POP3 mail accounts my ISP provides. I use netscape webmail, and can check my e-mail everywhere. I used to use hotmail, until MSFT bought it, but I am sure I am one of the millions of people microsoft says are potential Passport members...... (Yeah Right!)
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
Now, if this weren't Microsoft, who brought us everything that is good, I'd say the whole thing is just an outright lie.
In the last few years, AOL has nuked all their own content reroutes everyone to the net. This wouldn't be such a bad thing, except that they are so damn slow and about a quarter of the time, their servers won't let me get out. So it's Ch47 r00mZ or nothing.
I know, I know, I should dump 'em. But I've had the same e-mail address since 1988, so it's hard to let go.
Anonymous Kev
Proudly posting as AC since 1997
"I wonder how long until they have their own, seperate internet".
Well if things keep going at the rate they are, they very well might get something very similar:
1) can't access pop3 account without MS Outlook
2) can't view certain pages without MS IE
3) can't view certain media content without MS media player
4) can't chat with people unless you use MSN Messenger
Now we have a choice in all of the above, not to use them, and use something else. But if MS continues to gain marketshare, and put a stranglehold on their closed technologies - we could very well see a fair portion of the Internet locking out non MS users.
Neither one really requires technical knowledge to use, both are cheap (avoid the free mail forwarding services - if they're not making money, they're not going to be "permanent"), and they're generally simple to set up particularly if all you need is to have mail forwarded to your current ISP. ISP gets bought out? New terms are something you don't like? Switch ISPs. Once you're set up with your own address, the ISP just becomes a bandwidth provider.
fencepost
just a little off
All three programs listed are MAPI based. MAPI is a messaging API, not a protocol like POP3 or IMAP. Anyway I don't see what the big deal is. THere are lots of other ISPs if you don't like MSN. It is ridiculous to accuse MS of monopolistic behavior on this since they are WAY behind AOL on ISP market share.
Once again, because this bears repeating, Microsoft licensed Roxio's Easy CD Creator for Windows XP. Roxio is NOT going to go out of business because people aren't buying Easy CD Creator. Furthermore, 99% of people already get the CD burning software of choice with their burner, and relatively few buy it at the store, so your point doesn't hold much water anyway.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've had the same thing. My hotmail account (created less than a year ago) is by no means guessable (my last name is quite rare), but I still get spam on it all the time. I have never used that email address to sign up for anything -- I only had it because Microsoft made me sign up for Hotmail in order to access one of their other services. I always uncheck the "don't sell my address, don't send me newsletters, don't list me in the directory" boxes. And I get spam with my address among 20 others starting with the same 3-4 characters, all of which look like valid names. I don't see any other explaination than either Microsoft is selling addresses, or someone found a hole in their system which makes the list of email accouts visible.
I've heard people set up fake Hotmail accounts to test the theory that spam will automatically come to any Hotmail account even if unpublished, and found that not to be true. (usually they only waited a month or so.) Well, it happened to me, so it does happen.
Continue to enjoy POP3 e-mail service, with an option to switch to the world's largest Web-based e-mail service, MSN Hotmail®, via MSN Internet Explorer and get up to nine e-mail screen names for you and the rest of your family. (Due to the Microsoft anti-spam initiative, customers are restricted to use their mail services. Therefore, POP3 service is only available when using MSN Explorer, Microsoft Outlook, or Microsoft Outlook Express.)
I think what they mean is that you can only use microsoft products to download mail from hotmail, which is allready true for everyone. I won't do it though, because I hate the look and functionality of msn explorer and outlook has more virii than a $0.50 whore.
Nice Marmot